Author Topic: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?  (Read 831 times)

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Offline countrychurch

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The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
« on: March 30, 2017, 07:23:29 PM »
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  • Ok, the example that comes to mind is how the Bible says not to repeat prayers because God knows what you need before you ask him.

    But Jesus told the story of the widow who wouldn't stop bothering the judge, who respected neither God nor man, but eventually gave her what she wanted bc she was persistent. 

    so how do you know when you are merely being persistent, as the woman in that parable

    or just annoying the crud out of God with your incessant whining?

    :-X

    Offline countrychurch

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 07:27:05 PM »
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  • I feel horrible!

    about the implication that there is "crud" in God

    I repent. Please, no lightning strike, Lord... 

    seriously


    ::)

    :incense:

    :pray:


    Online Nadir

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 10:10:33 PM »
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  • The Bible never contradicts itself. 

    Actually the Bible doesn’t say not to repeat prayers. Here is what it says:


    Matthew 6 [7] And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.


    Remember that here the heathens are wrongly thinking that by speaking out, they will be heard (obviously by their false Gods who cannot even hear). He advises us to go into our room and pray in secret. Nothing there about repetative prayer. In fact He goes on to teach them the Our Father, which He meant to be prayed often, obviously.


    Luke 18: [1] And he spoke also a parable to them, that we ought always to pray, and not to faint, [2]Saying: There was a judge in a certain city, who feared not God, nor regarded man. [3] And there was a certain widow in that city, and she came to him, saying: Avenge (do me justice) me of my adversary. [4] And he would not for a long time. But afterwards he said within himself: Although I fear not God, nor regard man, [5] Yet because this widow is troublesome to me, I will avenge her, lest continually coming she weary me.[6] And the Lord said: Hear what the unjust judge saith. [7] And will not God revenge his elect who cry to him day and night: and will he have patience in their regard? [8] I say to you, that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth? 
     
    The story of the wicked judge shows how persistence pays. Even such a wicked person as the judge gave in because he was fed up with the woman. (The squeaky wheel gets the oil!) The message is how much more likely it is that your needs will be filled (though not necessarily your “wants”) by a just, generous and loving Father. 
    God never gets fed up of our prayers. He just can’t have enough of them. Or rather I should say it is impossible to pray too much.
     A centurion, Cornelius, is described in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 10 [2] as   
    A religious man, and fearing God with all his house, giving much alms to the people, and always praying to God.

    This gentile was not even baptised, and yet through his prayers, God gave him, and all his household, his reward and filled his needs with the grace of the Holy Spirit and of Baptism. 

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #3 on: March 31, 2017, 12:04:25 AM »
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  • That is what the Magisterium of the Church is for. To put an end to the seemingly contradictions and disputes and present the Truth to the Faithful in a manner that it is clear and concise.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline countrychurch

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #4 on: March 31, 2017, 02:33:28 PM »
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  • The Bible never contradicts itself.

    Actually the Bible doesn’t say not to repeat prayers. Here is what it says:


    Matthew 6 [7] And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.


     
    ok
    that was uplifting. But i do think there is something in there, which may be different depending on version of Bible, but something about repeating prayers.. Oh, i remember: the pagans repeat prayers, just as you posted (essentially)
    anyway, now I can feel free to tell God over and over again... well, this and that
    long, convoluted story. But the thought occurs to me that a lot of the time we dont even know what to pray, something else in the Bible.. so we console ourselves that we dont have to say anything. In adoration, i just listen
    too bad i have so little access to that anymore..
    I hate it that priests these days seem so worldly.. will not give their parish adoration
    :cussing:
    sorry, couldn't help it


    Offline countrychurch

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 02:35:15 PM »
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  • That is what the Magisterium of the Church is for. To put an end to the seemingly contradictions and disputes and present the Truth to the Faithful in a manner that it is clear and concise.
    in my experience they have been slackers
    i have lived in this place and that (USA) menaing i have gone to many, many different churches--and I think i know ONE priest I would call sincere, and i have even had problems w/ him.. When i say problems, i am speaking of SIN
    but whatever...
    sighs, 

    Online Nadir

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 04:28:07 PM »
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  • in my experience they have been slackers
    i have lived in this place and that (USA) menaing i have gone to many, many different churches--and I think i know ONE priest I would call sincere, and i have even had problems w/ him.. When i say problems, i am speaking of SIN
    but whatever...
    sighs,
    Cantarella is referring not to individual parishes that you have attended, but to the MAGISTERIUM of the Church, that is, the teachings that have been handed down to us from the Apostles, then  taught throughout the ages of the Church and still hold good for today. The MAGISTERIUM has the responsibilty to clarify and teach those things which cannot change, though they may be added to (like the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary).


    If you attend a church in the conciliar system you are unlikely to learn what the Magisterium teaches, because the conciliar system acts as though the church started at the end of the Second Vatican Council (1965).


    If you can come to understand this, it will answer a lot of your questions, and your confusions. You cannot always blame the priests though, for all the problems. It is up to each individual Catholic to seek out the truth about what the Church teaches. Nowadays there is no excuse for a literate Catholic who has access to books and the internet, though of course you need to have discernment, or seek advice if you haven't, about what you ought to read.
    May God's Holy Spirit guide your search.

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #7 on: April 01, 2017, 12:48:43 AM »
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  • Ok, the example that comes to mind is how the Bible says not to repeat prayers because God knows what you need before you ask him.

    But Jesus told the story of the widow who wouldn't stop bothering the judge, who respected neither God nor man, but eventually gave her what she wanted bc she was persistent.

    so how do you know when you are merely being persistent, as the woman in that parable

    or just annoying the crud out of God with your incessant whining?

    :-X
    I recommend that you study the catechism and listen to the magisterium of the Church if you want a better understanding of the Bible.


    Offline countrychurch

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #8 on: April 01, 2017, 03:36:04 PM »
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  • You cannot always blame the priests though, for all the problems.
    thanks

    I agree w/ all u say except for this (above)

    to which I say: Yes, I CAN blame priests. ANd i will continue to "out" them to anyone who cares to listen (which apparently is not many? you know, priests are exempt from accountability, according to some)

    anyway, even non-Catholics and other non-Christians know right from wrong. You do not, for example, treat a person like dirt just becasue you need a scapegoat for all your anger and frustration

    that is a BASIC tenet of not only christianity but civilization generally

    so when a priest of all people acts like a misanthrope, that is more wrong than when a non-priest does it.  Who is he to treat a human being created in God's image.. the only kind there are.. like a pc of trash? He is all the more to be held accountable bc he knows the Bible and etc.. better than just about anyone (but again,  even a person w/  an-formed conscience knows the basics of civility...)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #9 on: April 01, 2017, 03:45:31 PM »
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  • in my experience they have been slackers
    i have lived in this place and that (USA) menaing i have gone to many, many different churches--and I think i know ONE priest I would call sincere, and i have even had problems w/ him.. When i say problems, i am speaking of SIN
    but whatever...
    sighs,


    You seem to be saying that every priest in every church you have attended, which are many, are insincere. How can you know that every one of them is insincere?  

    Online Nadir

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #10 on: April 01, 2017, 04:05:22 PM »
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  • thanks

    I agree w/ all u say except for this (above)

    to which I say: Yes, I CAN blame priests. ANd i will continue to "out" them to anyone who cares to listen (which apparently is not many? you know, priests are exempt from accountability, according to some)

    anyway, even non-Catholics and other non-Christians know right from wrong. You do not, for example, treat a person like dirt just becasue you need a scapegoat for all your anger and frustration

    that is a BASIC tenet of not only christianity but civilization generally

    so when a priest of all people acts like a misanthrope, that is more wrong than when a non-priest does it.  Who is he to treat a human being created in God's image.. the only kind there are.. like a pc of trash? He is all the more to be held accountable bc he knows the Bible and etc.. better than just about anyone (but again,  even a person w/  an-formed conscience knows the basics of civility...)
    Not only are you changing the subject of this thread, but you are twisting what I said. Read again what I said:

    Quote
    You cannot always blame the priests though, for ALL the problems. It is up to each individual Catholic to seek out the truth about what the Church teaches. Nowadays there is no excuse for a literate Catholic who has access to books and the internet, though of course you need to have discernment, or seek advice if you haven't, about what you ought to read.
    May God's Holy Spirit guide your search.
    Now if you choose to put all responsibility and blame on all priests, it seems to me that you are deluded. Not only that, you are sinning if you treat with disrespect any priest by deriding them here and in your heart. If you have been hurt by a priest, then God desires that you forgive and pray for that priest. Priests are human and so they sin; they need our prayers.


    Offline Macarius

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #11 on: April 11, 2017, 12:25:31 AM »
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  • in my experience they have been slackers
    The Magisterium transcends the individual.

    Offline White Wolf

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    The Bible transcends reason...
    « Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 02:09:25 AM »
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  • There are many places where the Bible seems to propose contradictory teachings.  The key many times is to read the verses in context as well as understanding them in isolation.  Also, understand that scripture is the child of Tradition, and not the other way around.

    (Also, Countrychurch, you were just using a turn of phrase, not implying that God...   One of the things about all language is its absolute insufficiency to express the supernatural.)

    In the first instance, Our Lord Jesus Christ is telling us that prayer is an outgrowth of Faith.  Some people pray as though everything depends on them and their prayers, or that God has set some "quota" that they must reach before He will answer a prayer.  In the first example Our Lord is counseling us to have peace of soul and confidence in God.  God can do all things and will do them in His own good "time".

    In the second instance, Our Lord is telling us that our prayer must be constant.  That is, we must persevere.  "He who perseveres to the end will be saved."

    The practical application is this:
    For example, praying for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart at Fatima...

    In instance #1, Our Lord would counsel against praying the rosary continuously to the neglect of other duties.  We should pray our rosary devoutly  (at least 5 decades, as requested by Our Lady, but the whole 15 decades if we have the time, for we should never be satisfied with the minimum.) and then be satisfied and at peace we have done our daily prayers, and serenely go about our other duties.

    In instance #2, let's say we have done the five Saturdays as requested by Our Lady of Fatima.  Well, let us keep doing them.  Let us also make sure we persevere in saying the rosary.  We should never be satisfied with our "spiritual accomplishments" but ever striving for perfection.

    Advancing in the spiritual life is like climbing a mountain.  The higher you go, the smaller you feel.  The more you can see to the horizon, the more you realize there is a whole lot more you can see.

    Imagine your dog doing algebra... Trying to understand the ways of God is harder for us to do than for a dog to do algebra...

    regards...

    Our Lady of Fatima Pray for us you are our only hope!

    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 08:54:53 AM »
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  • We should do as many first Saturdays as we can out of love for Jesus and Mary.

    Offline Mercyandjustice

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    Re: The Bible seems to contradict itself, at least sometimes?
    « Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 06:47:12 PM »
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  • Theres also this:

    1 Par (1 Chronicles) 21:1-- And satan rose up against Israel and moved David to number Israel

    2 Kings (2 Samuel) 24:1-- And the anger of the Lord was again kindled against Israel, and stirred up David among them saying "Go and number Israel and Juda."

    I'm pretty sure only the original manuscrtpts are considered infallible or inerrant. There are too many contradictions found in the Bible, especially in terms of verses that contain numbers. 

    And as for Matt. 6:7, I was thinking perhaps he meant not to speak much or babble when praying thinking that by doing so, others will hear and praise you for your piety. 
    We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

    We hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers-- 1Tim 4:10

     

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