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Author Topic: The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation  (Read 4911 times)

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Offline RonCal26

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The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
« on: November 02, 2013, 03:36:18 PM »
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  • We thank God for the many converts we have witnessed to the True Faith as many Novus Ordo Catholics are leaving the Conciliar Church or as the late Dominican theologian, Cardinal Yves Congar called it, "the Church of Vatican II".

    Due to ignorance, many are conditionally confirmed upon their conversion to the traditional, True Faith.  For those were formerly Protestants, a number of them were not conditionally baptized in the Novus Ordo before becoming traditional Catholics.  My friend's mom from church (who is a trad) was never conditionally baptized after leaving the Lutheran Church.  Her parish priest from the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, who offers the traditional Mass, told her that her Protestant baptism was safe!  

    If you were confirmed after August 15, 1971 in the Novus Ordo, I recommend that you receive conditional confirmation.  If you received the Traditional Rite of Confirmation before 1971 by a Novus Ordo bishop consecrated in the 1968 New Rite of Episcopal Consecration or a Novus Ordo priest ordained in the 1968 New Rite of Priestly Ordination, I exhort you to receive conditional confirmation.  You may receive conditional Confirmation from either the SSPX, the CMRI, the SSPV, or from the Thuc bishops associated with Bishop Robert Mckenna or Bishop Donald Sanborn---all of whom were consecrated in the pre-1968 Rite of Holy Orders.

    This is what the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre had to say about the 1971 New Rite of Confirmation:

     "The Sacrament of Confirmation has been equally maltreated. One formula current today is, Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit. But the minister does not then specify what is the special grace of the sacrament by which the Holy Ghost gives Himself, and the sacrament is invalid. That is why I always respond to the requests of parents who have doubts regarding the validity of the [Novus Ordo] confirmation received by their children or who fear it will be administered invalidly, seeing what goes on around them. The [Novus Ordo] cardinals to whom I had to explain myself in 1975 reproached me on this and since then similar reproaches are repeated through the press on all my journeys. I explained why I carried on in this way. I meet the wishes of the faithful who ask me for valid confirmation, even if it is not licit, because we are in a period when divine law, natural and supernatural, has precedence over positive ecclesiastical law when the latter opposes the former instead of being a channel to transmit it."
    I'm a Roman Catholic who upholds the sedevacantist position.


    Offline RonCal26

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 03:39:24 PM »
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  • Please read the post, especially those who received Confirmation in the 1971 New Rite of Confirmation in the Novus Ordo.
    I'm a Roman Catholic who upholds the sedevacantist position.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 03:43:58 PM »
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  • I'm beginning to think I need to do a complete re-boot.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Olive

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 04:26:45 PM »
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  • Roncal - where is the quote from +ABL from?  

    Thanks for posting!

    Offline Dolores

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 05:53:39 PM »
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  • Isn't that the phraseology that has been used in the Eastern Catholic Churches for centuries?  Are their Confirmations also suspect?


    Offline RonCal26

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 06:09:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dolores
    Isn't that the phraseology that has been used in the Eastern Catholic Churches for centuries?  Are their Confirmations also suspect?


    Dolores, the 1971 New Rite uses a modified formula belonging to the Byzantine Rite of Confirmation, which says,  "The seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit".  The Catholic priest anoints the confirmand in several parts of his or her body.

    When the New Rite was implemented in 1971, Pope Paul VI altered the Byzantine formula and employed its usage in the Roman Rite.  He allowed vegetable oil to be used because many Novus Ordo bishops around the world suggested such a thing to him---which Paul VI mentioned when he promulgated the New Rite.  In place of balsam, Paul VI allowed spices to be substituted in its place.

     Further, in the traditional Byzantine Catholic rite of Confirmation, when the formula is pronounced by the bishop, he imposes his hands, thus completing by his action the words of the form. In the 1971 New Rite, however, even though the Byzantine Catholic form is used, the words are not completed by the action of imposition of hands, as in the Eastern Rite, thus rendering it highly doubtful.


    When the New Rite of Confirmation was promulgated, Archbishop Lefebvre became outraged and refused to accept the new ritual.

    The problems that compromise the 1971 New Rite of Confirmation:

    1) celebrated by bishops/priests ordained in the 1971 New Rite of Holy Orders
    2) allows vegetable oil as the matter of administering Confirmation
    3) the Byzantine formula was altered from its original translation.
    4) the New Rite of Blessing of Chrism eliminates the exorcism of the oils for Confirmation (expulsion of demons), which the traditional Roman ritual still uses.
    5) imposition of hands not performed in the proper time and manner as done in the Byzantine Catholic ritual.

    The removal of exorcisms can also be seen in other Novus Ordo rituals:

    1)  The abolition of the Minor Order of the Exorcist
    2)  Elimination of exorcisms in the New Blessings of Holy Water and Oils for Anointing of the Sick
    I'm a Roman Catholic who upholds the sedevacantist position.

    Offline Luker

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 10:14:50 PM »
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  • This topic is relevant to me.  I am happy that I am getting conditionally reconfirmed next Sunday in the Old Rite by a traditional bishop! Since beginning to read deeper into the crisis I have had some nagging doubts about my NO confirmation/reception. I am glad to be able to put those doubts to rest.

    Luke
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 10:54:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Luker
    This topic is relevant to me.  I am happy that I am getting conditionally reconfirmed next Sunday in the Old Rite by a traditional bishop! Since beginning to read deeper into the crisis I have had some nagging doubts about my NO confirmation/reception. I am glad to be able to put those doubts to rest.

    Luke



    If I were in your shoes I'd do the same thing.  

    I know people who had Newsacraments like this and their faith is
    not very strong, so when I tell them they might consider having a
    conditional confirmation or baptism, they generally laugh it off.  It's
    kind of sad to see.  I so wish they would have a response to my
    suggestion like you have here, Luker.  That would be encouraging.  
    But since they don't I am not afraid or reluctant to take the
    encouragement that I'm looking for, from your testimony.. I hope
    you don't mind!!


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline St Magnus

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 11:33:17 PM »
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  • So the Rite used up until the new one is fine ? In other words if a person was confirmed in 1966 he/she is safe ?

    Offline B from A

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 09:59:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: RonCal26
    This is what the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre had to say about the 1971 New Rite of Confirmation:

     "The Sacrament of Confirmation has been equally maltreated. One formula current today is, Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit. But the minister does not then specify what is the special grace of the sacrament by which the Holy Ghost gives Himself, and the sacrament is invalid. That is why I always respond to the requests of parents who have doubts regarding the validity of the [Novus Ordo] confirmation received by their children or who fear it will be administered invalidly, seeing what goes on around them. The [Novus Ordo] cardinals to whom I had to explain myself in 1975 reproached me on this and since then similar reproaches are repeated through the press on all my journeys. I explained why I carried on in this way. I meet the wishes of the faithful who ask me for valid confirmation, even if it is not licit, because we are in a period when divine law, natural and supernatural, has precedence over positive ecclesiastical law when the latter opposes the former instead of being a channel to transmit it."


    Quote from: Olive
    Roncal - where is the quote from +ABL from?  


    Hi, I'm not RonCal of course, but it's from Open Letter to Confused Catholics, p. 54-55.  


    Offline soulguard

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 10:16:40 AM »
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  • When I start attending the SSPX which is the only traditional group in my country ( we don't have CMRI or SSPV) then I will ask them for confirmation.


    Offline St Magnus

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 03:18:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: St Magnus
    So the Rite used up until the new one is fine ? In other words if a person was confirmed in 1966 he/she is safe ?


    Anyone ?

    It may sound like a silly question, but the reason I'm asking is that by 1966, they had already started tinkering with the Mass. I was confirmed in 1966.

    Offline Matto

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 03:21:55 PM »
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  • I know that the SSPX often conditionally confirms those who were "confirmed" in the Novus Ordo.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline StCeciliasGirl

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 03:46:00 PM »
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  • I was re-confirmed ("conditionally confirmed") before we were married. At the time I questioned it in my head, but now it makes sense. Someone upstairs is looking out for us!



     :pray:
    Legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi

    +JMJ

    Offline RonCal26

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    The 1971 New Rite of Confirmation
    « Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 04:31:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: St Magnus
    Quote from: St Magnus
    So the Rite used up until the new one is fine ? In other words if a person was confirmed in 1966 he/she is safe ?


    Anyone ?

    It may sound like a silly question, but the reason I'm asking is that by 1966, they had already started tinkering with the Mass. I was confirmed in 1966.


    Yes, in 1966 the traditional sacraments were fine.  By the late 1960s, they were celebrated in the vernacular but still using the proper form and matter.

    I know an elderly Catholic who received Confirmation from Cardinal Timothy Manning (r. 1970-1985) in the year 1970.  This elderly man was worried about Confirmation being valid.  I assured him that the Novus Ordo still used the Traditional Rite in 1970 and Cardinal Manning was a validly ordained priest and bishop (consecrated by Archbishop Joseph McGucken, the Archbishop of San Francisco during the reign of Pope Pius XII).  Luckily for him, he received Confirmation a year before the changes were promulgated by Pope Paul VI.

    Pope Leo XIII taught this so that they way you have no doubts about your 1966 Confirmation:

    A person [priest/bishop] who has correctly and seriously used the requisite matter and form to effect and confer a sacrament is presumed for that very reason to have intended to do what the [Catholic] Church does. On this principle rests the doctrine that a Sacrament is truly conferred by the ministry of one who is a heretic or unbaptized, provided the [traditional] Catholic rite be employed.

    Which is why in the past, the Roman Catholic Church has accepted the episcopal and priestly ordinations conferred by the first Prime Minister of France, Prince Charles Maurice de Talleyrand, who simultaneously was a Freemason and a excommunicated Catholic prelate.  All the schismatic French bishops (consecrated by Msgr. Talleyrand) later on reconciled with Rome and were never conditionally ordained.

    As long as a validly ordained bishop or priest uses the Traditional Rite, whether he is a Modernist, Traditionalist, Heretic, or unbeliever, the sacrament is presumed valid unless proven otherwise, based from the teachings of Pope Leo XIII in Aposotlicae Curae.

    This however does not extend the New Rites of Sacraments, particularly Ordinations, Eucharist, Last Rites, and Confirmation.  In some vernacular translations like the ones used in Papua New Guinea or in the Philippines, Baptism is to be rejected or held doubtful because the translations does not reflect a word-for-word rendition from the original Latin text.
    I'm a Roman Catholic who upholds the sedevacantist position.