Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: PenitentWoman on October 07, 2012, 03:40:55 PM
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The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
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You are overwrought and blowing certain natural doubts, conflicts, out of proportion.
I can understand wanting to spend some time away from the forum though.
Don't let people in the NO use your scruples against you, and take some of the more "extreme" trad positions you hear with a grain of salt, not unqualified approval, unless they are clearly and convincingly true.
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To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
For what it's worth, when I read the post that you are responding to I could not figure out who it could apply to because I could not think of anyone like that with the initials PW. I'm still wondering if it was a typo or something. I can't believe that anyone sees you that way.
I have always found your posts delightful. In a world in which feminism is practically unavoidable, I find your posts make a refreshing break. I will miss them.
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Penitenta, I can understand your need to get away from the forum. There are other ways of learning about life and it can be too engrossing. I have enjoyed your posts and I don't for the life of me know how anybody could react in the way they have towards you. Forgiveness is hard but essential to your spiritual health. I am sure you know this already. I will certainly pray for you. I hope you will come back to let us know how you are going, at least. God bless you.
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Tiffany will have to answer to God for any spiritual or emotional pain she has inflicted on you.
I have no idea why she would call you such horrible, uncharitable, and baseless names.
Her twisted reasons are only known to her and God (and, I should also add, the devil -- who is keeping close track! He can't wait to accuse her before the Judgment Seat)
Some Catholics -- that call themselves Traditional -- should really be ashamed of themselves. They think Charity is optional as long as they abhor the Novus Ordo -- as if God is going to overlook reams of faults just because they drove a half hour to get to a Tridentine Mass. Sorry, I wish it were that easy!
Other Catholics think their mission in life is to fill in for the Pope (who they believe doesn't exist right now), and pontificate about where you should go to Mass -- what Masses are valid, which priests are actual priests, which Missal God wants us to use, the morality of NFP, the eternal destiny of infants who die without Baptism, etc.
As if God has revealed ANY of those things, privately OR publicly!
I try to ban ALL the Dogmatic Home-Aloners as well as those who are opposed on principle to the 1962 Missal, the priestly validity of SSPX priests, the Catholicity of the SSPX, etc. but apparently I missed a few if you're getting hassled by zealous "don't go to that Mass" types. I assume they're not just telling you to stay away from SGG or something like that...
Anyhow, I really get sick of these extremist "Catholic Truth. Population: Me" types. It's not because my position is weak, I'm afraid of the truth, or any of that BS, but rather because THEY ARE CRAZY and their extreme, nonsensical positions can really hurt someone who is genuinely looking for the TRUTH and SALVATION -- like PenitentWoman.
Whoever you are, if you're reading this -- just look at my posts. Do you think I go with the flow? I'm siding with Bishop Williamson for crying out loud. I'm certainly of good will and would follow the truth wherever it led me. But do you honestly think God has ABANDONED his Church so as to leave the Catholic Faithful (numbering in the hundreds of thousands? any better estimates out there?) with only a dozen valid priests? Come on, if that were true, where's the Last Trumpet already?
The Church must be visible until the end of time -- to say otherwise is heresy. And no, a dozen priests tucked away in a dozen little independent chapels is NOT sufficient for a visible Church.
As for the 1962 Missal, I see nothing wrong with it and I studied at a traditional Seminary for 3 1/2 years. How about you? You probably just read some crap by the Dimond brothers and think you're an expert, or you trust the Dimond brothers who put themselves forward as experts. Who trained them? They probably read a few books. Either way, you're sadly mistaken.
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By the way, I should point out that I've been a traditional Catholic for three and a half decades, plus I've run CathInfo for the past 6 years. I also attended a traditional seminary for 3 1/2 years. I know traditional Catholics pretty well.
My parents met each other at TAN Books & Publishers, founded by Thomas A. Nelson who was a pioneer in the Traditional movement.
My mom used to talk about Archbishop Lefebvre's Episcopal Consecrations (1988) when I was a pre-teen, and I remember her admiration for the Archbishop.
I think I'm extremely well qualified to make general statements about traditional Catholics, or to recognize legitimate patterns -- particularly, problems in the movement.
I think it's very sad when I see so many people go off the deep end into various obsessive-compulsive, perfectionist, or other extremist positions. This pitfall seems to afflict those of a Melancholic temperament more than any other.
Another thing I've learned is that some rumors never die. It's as if Traditional Catholicism needs a website like "snopes" that tackles various urban legends once and for all.
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Dear PenitentWoman,
I ask you to reconsider leaving us.
Many people have decided to leave CathInfo, and have then changed their minds.
CathInfo is the best of the Catholic Forums.
You will get help and support here that you cannot get on these other, lesser Catholic Forums.
It is best for your soul that you stay here.
It is best for your baby's soul that you stay here.
You said that you believed that God has directed you here.
That is obviously the case.
Do not let the devil win. He has worked people up against you here.
That shows that God wants you here.
Do the will of God.
You do a lot of good for souls by posting here.
You are one of the people that I have learned from the most.
Do not stop helping souls with your posts here.
Your posts have brightened up CathInfo.
You have brought something very good to CathInfo, that was not here before.
And on CathInfo, almost everybody likes you.
You owe it to your friends to stay.
(But really I only say that to help to guide you to stay).
I have sent you two PMs.
I ask you to read them.
Perhaps they will help you as well.
God Bless you, PenitentWoman.
God Bless your baby.
Yours, in Jesus and Mary and Joseph and The Divine Mercy,
Sede Catholic.
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Tiffany will have to answer to God for any spiritual or emotional pain she has inflicted on you.
I have no idea why she would call you such horrible, uncharitable, and baseless names.
Her twisted reasons are only known to her and God (and, I should also add, the devil -- who is keeping close track! He can't wait to accuse her before the Judgment Seat)
Some Catholics -- that call themselves Traditional -- should really be ashamed of themselves. They think Charity is optional as long as they abhor the Novus Ordo -- as if God is going to overlook reams of faults just because they drove a half hour to get to a Tridentine Mass. Sorry, I wish it were that easy!
Other Catholics think their mission in life is to fill in for the Pope (who they believe doesn't exist right now), and pontificate about where you should go to Mass -- what Masses are valid, which priests are actual priests, which Missal God wants us to use, the morality of NFP, the eternal destiny of infants who die without Baptism, etc.
As if God has revealed ANY of those things, privately OR publicly!
I try to ban ALL the Dogmatic Home-Aloners as well as those who are opposed on principle to the 1962 Missal, the priestly validity of SSPX priests, the Catholicity of the SSPX, etc. but apparently I missed a few if you're getting hassled by zealous "don't go to that Mass" types. I assume they're not just telling you to stay away from SGG or something like that...
Anyhow, I really get sick of these extremist "Catholic Truth. Population: Me" types. It's not because my position is weak, I'm afraid of the truth, or any of that BS, but rather because THEY ARE CRAZY and their extreme, nonsensical positions can really hurt someone who is genuinely looking for the TRUTH and SALVATION -- like PenitentWoman.
Whoever you are, if you're reading this -- just look at my posts. Do you think I go with the flow? I'm siding with Bishop Williamson for crying out loud. I'm certainly of good will and would follow the truth wherever it led me. But do you honestly think God has ABANDONED his Church so as to leave the Catholic Faithful (numbering in the hundreds of thousands? any better estimates out there?) with only a dozen valid priests? Come on, if that were true, where's the Last Trumpet already?
The Church must be visible until the end of time -- to say otherwise is heresy. And no, a dozen priests tucked away in a dozen little independent chapels is NOT sufficient for a visible Church.
As for the 1962 Missal, I see nothing wrong with it and I studied at a traditional Seminary for 3 1/2 years. How about you? You probably just read some crap by the Dimond brothers and think you're an expert, or you trust the Dimond brothers who put themselves forward as experts. Who trained them? They probably read a few books. Either way, you're sadly mistaken.
I realize we won't agree on this Matthew. PW has been deceptive, she has baited people, attacked those who (correctly) called her out in her lies, she seems to have a script for posts and when that isn't followed she she starts baiting and twisting, she plays victim role over and over again.
She constantly attempts to appear that she has certain beliefs - she makes very broad strong statements but other things she posts don't fit with someone who believes those broad strong statements she makes.
Matthew a sincere person is looking for the truth. None of that ^ shows sincerity or honesty. Her writing that she wants to learn is our Achilles heel to keep us sympathetic to her.
My comment was not baseless.
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:confused1:
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Well said Matthew.
I encounter this a lot with so-called traditional Catholics, especially on forums. It seems like, from what I gather, that all they want to talk about and do is bash the conciliar church and those who may not have fully embraces tradition yet and because they do so they feel it gives them free reign to be abhorrently uncharitable to anyone who does not share their particular view yet.
As Catholics, whether you attend the Novus Ordo, the SSPX, the FSSP type masses, a diocesan TLM, an eastern rite or a sede chapel, you are called to a heroic degree of charity and patience. We are all called to be saints. We should avoid name-calling at all costs and try to practice love even for our "enemies."
When I say enemies... how can some of us who are traditional Catholics (to whom much is given much is expected), consider that we should hate our enemies, even if they fully adhere to the conciliar church's break from tradition, yes it is sad, but Christ called us to even love our enemies and treat them with heroic charity. There are many saints who are great examples of this, who went out of their way to find those who were most abrasive to them, who they disliked the most, to seek them out and to practice taking up their cross and practicing charity and patience towards them and overlooking their faults. How many times have we read in the writings of saints to overlook the faults of our brethren? God will hold us accountable for every evil word spoken against someone, whether in our mind, on a forum, or in person.
We don't have to agree with someone if they choose to attend the Novus Ordo, but that does not give us the right to be malicious and uncharitable towards them. Not all of us magically became traditionalists over night, it took months and years of praying and receiving lights and graces from God to realize the problems in the church. We must practice patience with those who are not at that point yet. And even if they make huge generalizing statements, we must practice charity and patience and try to address their statements with perfection and virtue.
In the words of St. John of the Cross "Strive not for that which is easiest, but for that which is most burdensome." -Spiritual Maxims Opera Omnia trans. Allison Peers.
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This pitfall seems to afflict those of a Melancholic temperament more than any other.
What do you base this comment on? None of the Melancholics I have met on Trad forums are extremists.
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Lots and lots of experience, SS.
Melancholics incline toward perfectionism and OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder).
They are the pretty much the only ones to have to endure "scruples".
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The dogmatic extremists that were banned on my forum were cholerics who tended towards narcissism.
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This pitfall seems to afflict those of a Melancholic temperament more than any other.
Correct you are sir. :facepalm:
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How can you tell someone's temperament? I've read about them but can never tell how to identify them in people. Is it just guessing or sixth sense?
It seems to me that someone could be any of the temperaments depending on their state of mind, but one always?
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How can you tell someone's temperament? I've read about them but can never tell how to identify them in people. Is it just guessing or sixth sense?
It seems to me that someone could be any of the temperaments depending on their state of mind, but one always?
Intuition.
Some people have strong intuition, and/or are really good at sizing people up. That would include me.
That's not the same as being GOOD WITH people. I'm not very adept socially, though I try :) I'm not an outgoing schmoozer though.
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I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I thought about this for a while, and then the answer hit me.
PenitentWoman is confusing being a Tradtiional Catholic with being a Saint.
This is admirable in a way, and very idealistic of her, but it's a bit unrealistic.
If I asked you, "If I told you that you would lose your family and all your worldly possessions if you remained Catholic, would you stay Catholic?" and you hesitate at all, does that make you a bad Catholic?
Or does it just mean you're still human, and human feelings still play a part in your behavior? There's a REASON why Saints and Martyrs are special -- because they had to essentially climb uphill a steep mountain with no food or drink to get to their destination. They had to go against human nature 100%.
What human being naturally embraces extreme suffering and death? How about nobody. That's also why martyrs have to constantly pray during their ordeal, and not rely on themselves, or they WILL snap and lose the crown, and possibly their souls as well (like the 40th martyr exposed on the ice who snapped and denied Christ, got awarded the warm bath, which was a shock to his body and it killed him! How horrible, to know that a soul certainly went to hell...)
True, ideally any (traditional) Catholic should want to serve Christ perfectly. And to whatever extent we sin, we're hypocrites. How can we claim to be followers of Christ and then do un-Christ-like things?
But that doesn't mean that no one but saints can call themselves Catholic. All of us fall short of the ideal; the only question is how. But the important thing is that we call our sins "sins" and our faults "faults" and try our best to root them out, so that we might become perfect someday.
A traditional Catholic is just a real Catholic. Ideally, the burden of the adjective should fall to the "modernists". We should get the name "Catholic". Catholicism is FUNDAMENTALLY traditional in nature.
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Time off would be good for you.
There are many evil individuals who lurk this forum.
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This pitfall seems to afflict those of a Melancholic temperament more than any other.
Correct you are sir. :facepalm:
I don't know why you put my screen name in quotes -- Matthew is my real name as well as my screen name.
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Matthew said to PenitentWoman:
Tiffany will have to answer to God for any spiritual or emotional pain she has inflicted on you.
I have no idea why she would call you such horrible, uncharitable, and baseless names.
Her twisted reasons are only known to her and God (and, I should also add, the devil -- who is keeping close track! He can't wait to accuse her before the Judgment Seat)
...
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for saying that.
Thank you for using your authority here to say that.
I have said before that you are a good moderator.
You are a very good moderator.
Matthew, I totally agree with your assessment of Tiffany’s wicked and very sinful conduct.
Tiffany obviously has inflicted great spiritual and emotional pain on this young Catholic girl, PenitentWoman.
Matthew has said it right: Tiffany has called PenitentWoman horrible, uncharitable and baseless names.
And yes, I again agree with Matthew that Tiffany’s reasons are twisted.
And I agree again with Matthew that the devil will have a lot to accuse Tiffany of about this matter.
Matthew condemned Tiffany’s name calling against PenitentWoman as “baseless”.
That is exactly the case.
The lies of Tiffany are entirely baseless. They are simply lies.
PenitentWoman came here searching for traditional Catholicism.
She has been bullied and persecuted by Feminist women.
Five or six Feminist women have made PenitentWoman suffer horrifically here.
Partly that is because Feminists abhor a young woman who will not accept their bitter, bitter denunciations of God’s natural order concerning men and women.
Partly it is because Feminists do not like young women, who after all, gain the attention of men.
Partly it is because of their own defective marital situations.
I do not believe that many of the five or six Feminists involved have happy marriages.
That is a very big reason for all of this fury and malice that they have hurled at this poor young Catholic girl, PenitentWoman.
The two worst Feminist persecutors of PenitentWoman, Thorn and Tiffany, are both divorced.
That is not a coincidence.
Divorced women are very well known for spreading misery into other people’s lives.
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Tiffany, you have lied wickedly and sinfully about PenitentWoman.
Tiffany, you will answer to God for your vindictive and cruel malice towards that poor young Catholic girl.
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We will miss you.
Please pray for us and I will pray for you.
:pray: :pray: :pray:
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Dear poche,
Those are nice sentiments.
It is good that you remind people to pray.
You are sometimes wrong about things, because you are new to traditional Catholicism.
But you remind us to pray.
Which is a good thing.
God Bless you, poche.
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PenitentWoman and poche are both newcomers to traditional Catholicism.
Let us help such people with kindness.
Let us not ruin their search for the true Catholic Faith.
Let us pray for them and help them.
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The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
:smoke-pot:
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The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
:smoke-pot:
What the heck is that supposed to mean? :laugh1:
-
Sounds like you need a break P.W.
You'll be back.
-
Matthew said to PenitentWoman:
Tiffany will have to answer to God for any spiritual or emotional pain she has inflicted on you.
I have no idea why she would call you such horrible, uncharitable, and baseless names.
Her twisted reasons are only known to her and God (and, I should also add, the devil -- who is keeping close track! He can't wait to accuse her before the Judgment Seat)
...
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for saying that.
Thank you for using your authority here to say that.
I have said before that you are a good moderator.
You are a very good moderator.
Matthew, I totally agree with your assessment of Tiffany’s wicked and very sinful conduct.
Tiffany obviously has inflicted great spiritual and emotional pain on this young Catholic girl, PenitentWoman.
Matthew has said it right: Tiffany has called PenitentWoman horrible, uncharitable and baseless names.
And yes, I again agree with Matthew that Tiffany’s reasons are twisted.
And I agree again with Matthew that the devil will have a lot to accuse Tiffany of about this matter.
Matthew condemned Tiffany’s name calling against PenitentWoman as “baseless”.
That is exactly the case.
The lies of Tiffany are entirely baseless. They are simply lies.
PenitentWoman came here searching for traditional Catholicism.
She has been bullied and persecuted by Feminist women.
Five or six Feminist women have made PenitentWoman suffer horrifically here.
Partly that is because Feminists abhor a young woman who will not accept their bitter, bitter denunciations of God’s natural order concerning men and women.
Partly it is because Feminists do not like young women, who after all, gain the attention of men.
Partly it is because of their own defective marital situations.
I do not believe that many of the five or six Feminists involved have happy marriages.
That is a very big reason for all of this fury and malice that they have hurled at this poor young Catholic girl, PenitentWoman.
The two worst Feminist persecutors of PenitentWoman, Thorn and Tiffany, are both divorced.
That is not a coincidence.
Divorced women are very well known for spreading misery into other people’s lives.
Sede I believe you are falling for PW victim role here. I grew up in the US so I may not be aware of all feminist influence, but I do not consider myself a feminist and I have no desire to spread misery. I do not dislike young women, that is silly. I don't know even know the age of PW. I respect you Sede and your advice has repeatedly been invaluable to me and my son. On this issue I believe you are not seeing the deceit and manipulation from PW's posts. IMO Thorn and WF both have called PW out correctly.
I am divorced that does not make me a feminist or a misery spreader. I had to rely on the state's judicial system to help me meet my do my parental duty of protecting my child. That does not mean I don't accept God's natural order or men and women or that I am a feminist.
-
The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
PW, yes, forums are an addiction, ones like this esp, since we live in a world with little relief and support, many of us come here for sanity adn to share with other Catholics that most of time, are in line with our thinking.....then we find that our motives are questioned and we are frequently attacked for not being in a certain mold, whether Stepford wives, neonαzιs adhering to a perverted view of Fide and nation/race/ethnicity, not being pure enough or attacked for being a SV or NOT being a SV,etc.
Trust me, a lot of time you have wasted here...find good supports, priests and friends.laugh much, live life, pray, hope and enjoy the fresh air.
IT will take awhile to get over coming here, often you find your mouse going instictively to the CI favorite,etc......Took me a good few weeks......hang in there..
-
Penitent Woman,
Instead of leaving, why not just take a hiatus? A few weeks away from the forum is sometimes a good chance to recollect and put your feelings all in order.
Take the time to read some good instructional books.
Pray more.
Then, after a while, return. Your posts are a plus to this forum.
-
Tiffany,
I don't usually fall for the victim/manipulator, in fact, it infuriates me as it is my Mom's pasttime.
I have seen *nothing* to lend credence to your (Tiffany's) claims in this. If PW's conduct in this regard is so blatant and her malice so egregious, it should be abundantly clear to more of us, but it seems none of us can figure out what you're talking about.
I agree with JayneK (note the date and time, I don't think this will happen again) that I didn't even know who "PW" was that you referred to in my poche poll, because your statement didn't match anyone I could think of with those initials. Now that I know, it has me scratching my head, and also, I object. On the grounds that I disagree and further on the grounds that it's an attempted hijack of my thread with your obsession with PW (what else shall I call bringing her up out of context just to malign her?). Weird.
Start your own thread, as I did, to grind your axe.
PenitentWoman,
Relax, Trad forums can really melt your face off if you say the wrongthing or don't know better. I'm a covert and have a very poor understanding of what it means to be Catholic on several fronts, but I'm bookish and have worked hard to learn about the culture as well as the dogma (since I'm not a cradle I'm not marinated in the Faith and often don't know something I say or do raises eyebrows).
Not everyone would/could do this, and converts less inclined to be studious often struggle with the enormity of what it is to be in a 2,000 year old religion. However, such people can often be quite prayerful and devout, and that is admirable.
I would encourage you not to let anyone define your time here or characterize your contributions as somehow hazardous, likely to metastasize into leading others less formed into apostasy en masse. Especially don't let someone who is weirdly bitter to the point of composing invectives about you in her spare time then spewing her vitriol as nonseqiturs as the demented do, such a bile-benighted mind is in need of your prayers not your fear.
-
The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
:smoke-pot:
What the heck is that supposed to mean? :laugh1:
It means that, once again, Roscoe has nothing to contribute to a thread other than that idiotic emoticon.
-
Yes, I think it's good that PW step away from the forum, either temporarily or permanently. I wish her well.
One more interesting little tidbit: I noticed that she started her idealized nanny job Sept. 5th. At the time, I said to a few people, "Let's make a bet as to how long this will last. She's going to get a dose of reality, which is good." She made a couple of posts about the job at first & then all was silent. Exactly one month later, she posts that she must leave the forum as her personal life is a disaster, she's in financial straits & dealing with some issues. Perhaps she either quit or was let go at the end of a month's work & didn't want to tell the forum. (Else why would she be in financial straits?) Did reality strike?
Yes, I know that she has student loans but since her parents are well off they probably have been helping her with them.
I'm not ragging on her here. Just an observation. It seems that what she DOESN"T tell, makes all the difference in the world.
-
Yes, I think it's good that PW step away from the forum, either temporarily or permanently. I wish her well.
One more interesting little tidbit: I noticed that she started her idealized nanny job Sept. 5th. At the time, I said to a few people, "Let's make a bet as to how long this will last. She's going to get a dose of reality, which is good." She made a couple of posts about the job at first & then all was silent. Exactly one month later, she posts that she must leave the forum as her personal life is a disaster, she's in financial straits & dealing with some issues. Perhaps she either quit or was let go at the end of a month's work & didn't want to tell the forum. (Else why would she be in financial straits?) Did reality strike?
Yes, I know that she has student loans but since her parents are well off they probably have been helping her with them.
I'm not ragging on her here. Just an observation. It seems that what she DOESN"T tell, makes all the difference in the world.
It's posts like these that seem make posters seem obsessive. This has gone a bit too far...
-
Yes, I think it's good that PW step away from the forum, either temporarily or permanently. I wish her well.
One more interesting little tidbit: I noticed that she started her idealized nanny job Sept. 5th. At the time, I said to a few people, "Let's make a bet as to how long this will last. She's going to get a dose of reality, which is good." She made a couple of posts about the job at first & then all was silent. Exactly one month later, she posts that she must leave the forum as her personal life is a disaster, she's in financial straits & dealing with some issues. Perhaps she either quit or was let go at the end of a month's work & didn't want to tell the forum. (Else why would she be in financial straits?) Did reality strike?
Yes, I know that she has student loans but since her parents are well off they probably have been helping her with them.
I'm not ragging on her here. Just an observation. It seems that what she DOESN"T tell, makes all the difference in the world.
It's incredibly uncharitable and way out of line for you rashly judge PW like this.
Do you even know what rash judgment is?
If this isn't rash judgment, then there is no such thing and NO ONE has to ever worry about it, ever.
You owe her an apology.
-
When I saw that Penitenta was leaving us, that reminded me that I hadn't seen Thorn around for a while. So she has been here checking up on Penitenta's dates and actions. How caring! :wink:
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Matthew, PW is gone so I can't apologize to her.
Since you noticed my post about PW, did you notice the ugly, untrue things that Sede called me? His rant was unbelievable!! How come no call for that man to apologize to me???!!!!! Much worse things than my observation of PW's post. I didn't call her names. Sede called me some pretty ugly, damning names.
Is PW some untouchable that no one is allowed to comment? Why are some people here so touchy about her? Good grief!
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Nadir, sweet of you to take note of my absence. How caring!
-
Matthew, PW is gone so I can't apologize to her.
Since you noticed my post about PW, did you notice the ugly, untrue things that Sede called me? His rant was unbelievable!! How come no call for that man to apologize to me???!!!!! Much worse things than my observation of PW's post. I didn't call her names. Sede called me some pretty ugly, damning names.
Is PW some untouchable that no one is allowed to comment? Why are some people here so touchy about her? Good grief!
I only saw Sede call you:
1. Divorced (true)
2. A persecutor of PW (true)
3. A feminist [as in 'feminist persecutor'] (hard to 'prove', but you seem to lose this one in the court of public opinion)
So what 'untrue things' (your words) did Sede say about you?
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Matthew, PW is gone so I can't apologize to her.
Since you noticed my post about PW, did you notice the ugly, untrue things that Sede called me? His rant was unbelievable!! How come no call for that man to apologize to me???!!!!! Much worse things than my observation of PW's post. I didn't call her names. Sede called me some pretty ugly, damning names.
Is PW some untouchable that no one is allowed to comment? Why are some people here so touchy about her? Good grief!
Even if it were PW herself who said untrue things about you (and not a third party), your actions would not be justified simply because someone else did it first.
If you've expressed to Sede the nature of what he did, then leave him to worry about his own possible misdeeds and you worry about yours.
How much attention one or the other has drawn has no bearing on whether or not either was the right or wrong thing to do.
-
Yes, I think it's good that PW step away from the forum, either temporarily or permanently. I wish her well.
One more interesting little tidbit: I noticed that she started her idealized nanny job Sept. 5th. At the time, I said to a few people, "Let's make a bet as to how long this will last. She's going to get a dose of reality, which is good." She made a couple of posts about the job at first & then all was silent. Exactly one month later, she posts that she must leave the forum as her personal life is a disaster, she's in financial straits & dealing with some issues. Perhaps she either quit or was let go at the end of a month's work & didn't want to tell the forum. (Else why would she be in financial straits?) Did reality strike?
Yes, I know that she has student loans but since her parents are well off they probably have been helping her with them.
I'm not ragging on her here. Just an observation. It seems that what she DOESN"T tell, makes all the difference in the world.
Schadenfreude, and keeping close notes in your spare time, how demoniacal. No, no, don't have prayed for the girl during her travails that you carefully noted over a month, just salivate that she'll fall.
And envy that her family is "well off" (in your opinion)?! What if they've cut her off for her faith? Did you note she also said they accuse her of being in a 'cult'?
Way to support your 'fellow' (if you can rightfully be labeled one yourself) Catholic.
Go back to the chthonic realms which belched you forth.
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Can't we all just get along? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0)
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I feel terrible that Penitent Woman is suffering. We will pray for her. I understand about the dress and makeup. Sunday, I was only woman wearing makeup. Someone asked me about isn't great to wear a dress and pointed out the parish dress maker. They were nice about it. When i was novus ordo, i always wore a dress to Mass. Then change into "play or work clothes" In the past when I was single and during 80's I wore some interesting clothes. I remember my Dad making me change my skirt because he thought it was too short.
You are right.. there really isn't much difference between the masses. except that the leotine prayers were omitted from original 1962 and a change to Canon.
I was taught by others in my last chapel that it was John XXIII and the next step to vatican II. Most independent chapels believe this and offer the Pope Pius V Mass and we use old missals or reproductions like st andrew 1945 reproduction (and not many from independent chapels don't pay attention to dimond brothers). My intentions are not to hurt the Catholic Church, sspx or anyone.
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Nadir, sweet of you to take note of my absence. How caring!
I am caring, but I am not sweet, and I don't think anyone who knows me would ever say so.
Actually I preferred it while you were away.
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Let's just cut it out, how about?
-
Yes, I think it's good that PW step away from the forum, either temporarily or permanently. I wish her well.
One more interesting little tidbit: I noticed that she started her idealized nanny job Sept. 5th. At the time, I said to a few people, "Let's make a bet as to how long this will last. She's going to get a dose of reality, which is good." She made a couple of posts about the job at first & then all was silent. Exactly one month later, she posts that she must leave the forum as her personal life is a disaster, she's in financial straits & dealing with some issues. Perhaps she either quit or was let go at the end of a month's work & didn't want to tell the forum. (Else why would she be in financial straits?) Did reality strike?
Yes, I know that she has student loans but since her parents are well off they probably have been helping her with them.
I'm not ragging on her here. Just an observation. It seems that what she DOESN"T tell, makes all the difference in the world.
It's incredibly uncharitable and way out of line for you rashly judge PW like this.
Do you even know what rash judgment is?
If this isn't rash judgment, then there is no such thing and NO ONE has to ever worry about it, ever.
You owe her an apology.
Matthew, we have seen PW post things that don't fit, are deceptive, she baits, manipulates, attacks, and does while playing the victim and keeping us sympathetic to her, it reminds me of borderline behavior.
It's an internet board, We don't have to dialogue with every member here. I put her on ignore after the men don't marry/homeschool topic. because I saw what I saw. I only spoke up when I saw WF being attacked by her in the modesty thread.
She attacks others and sometimes it's not "real" things she is calling them out on, it's made up stuff to so she can appear as a victim again or do her I need a husband spin. She often tries to paint herself in a certain way, often while being condescending to others. I'm not saying every post she does this, but when things don't fit her script, or she is called out for statements she makes not fitting, the attacks and manipulation starts. Even with her non-apology apology or when she was back peddling, she was still attacking those who called her out. .
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Well, PW is, for now, gone apparently.......moving along.... :jumping2:
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Well, PW is, for now, gone apparently.......moving along.... :jumping2:
How fast is she moving??? :roll-laugh2:
I miss PW already!
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me too.she seemed nice and sincere whatever her faults and short comings, as we all have.....
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I empathize with you fully.
...
I know that I will never set foot in a Catholic Church again because I cannot reconcile the incredible cruelty and yes, EVIL, of people who claim to hold The Truth to a God that is all Knowing, all Good, all Powerful... I've never encountered worse people and I don't believe I ever shall. I don't have the strength to claim that traditionalists are mostly "good" people -- they are not.
I am at peace when I stay away from them.
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Cognorati,
The people who were cruel to you will have to answer to God for their behavior. You need to meditate on the sufferings of Jesus. He, the pure spotless Lamb of God was meligned, abused verbally, spit upon, and scourged. He was sinless and blameless.
If we receive persecution, we can offer it up for our sins.
Dont EVER give up your faith for persecutions!
The martyrs went thru more than you could have ever gone thru.
Unfortunately, some Trad Catholics, who should be the "light of the world" have become hypocrites . We can only pray for them.
You have your own salvation to work out.
At the particular judgement, you will have to answer for your own sins and how you lived your faith.......excusing yourself that you gave up your faith because of the persecution of others, wont hold sway with God.
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Cognorati,
I am suspicious of the veracity of your post. I apologize if I come across as uncharitable but such is such and this thread is not the time of place to announce such a grievance and then oh so very solemnly pronounce such a sentence on the entire traditional community.
-
The holiest and most charitable people I've ever met were traditional Catholics.
-
I empathize with you fully.
...
I know that I will never set foot in a Catholic Church again because I cannot reconcile the incredible cruelty and yes, EVIL, of people who claim to hold The Truth to a God that is all Knowing, all Good, all Powerful... I've never encountered worse people and I don't believe I ever shall. I don't have the strength to claim that traditionalists are mostly "good" people -- they are not.
I am at peace when I stay away from them.
Good news, Cognorati -- I'm going to help you be at peace for a long time.
I'm going to ban you, since you obviously don't belong here. You and CathInfo seem to have a moth-flame relationship going on.
I really hate to say it, but it doesn't look too good for you. Catholicism is the one true religion, the only path to salvation. And traditional Catholicism is just "real" Catholicism; nothing more. Ideally, the Novus Ordo, friendly-with-the-world, protestantized religion should have the burden of the adjective. We are just Catholics here.
Catholicism is inherently traditional. It is traditional by nature. That's why it's kind of silly that WE need to make use of an adjective. We're just like the Catholics you'd find in any other century before 1900. That includes imperfections and even sins, yes. But at least we're Catholic.
-
I empathize with you fully.
...
I know that I will never set foot in a Catholic Church again because I cannot reconcile the incredible cruelty and yes, EVIL, of people who claim to hold The Truth to a God that is all Knowing, all Good, all Powerful... I've never encountered worse people and I don't believe I ever shall. I don't have the strength to claim that traditionalists are mostly "good" people -- they are not.
I am at peace when I stay away from them.
Good news, Cognorati -- I'm going to help you be at peace for a long time.
I'm going to ban you, since you obviously don't belong here. You and CathInfo seem to have a moth-flame relationship going on.
I really hate to say it, but it doesn't look too good for you. Catholicism is the one true religion, the only path to salvation. And traditional Catholicism is just "real" Catholicism; nothing more. Ideally, the Novus Ordo, friendly-with-the-world, protestantized religion should have the burden of the adjective. We are just Catholics here.
Catholicism is inherently traditional. It is traditional by nature. That's why it's kind of silly that WE need to make use of an adjective. We're just like the Catholics you'd find in any other century before 1900. That includes imperfections and even sins, yes. But at least we're Catholic.
It's probably the best thing for her as well as CathInfo. If she feels like the Trads she's met personally were evil, the shortcomings of Internet communication aren't going to help her see people any differently.
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Cognorati==classic victicrat :baby:
-
HMMMMMMMMMM, Cognorati,
I was thinking about you today. Please correct me if Im wrong, but I think I remember you a while back when the subject was blacks and racism. I think you told us you were a black woman who experienced a lot of racist attitudes at the SSPX chapel you attended. At that time you said you wanted to leave the Catholic church. Am I right on this? Too lazy to research the threads to find your comments, but i will, if I have to. :scratchchin:
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Can't we all just get along? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0)
Apparently not. :smile:
-
This PW sage is fascinating & truly mindboggling!
Tiffany, you put into words what I couldn't. As I said in the beginning, I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with PW but you did! Then everyone (except a few) started shooting the messengers instead of really looking into what was going on. They just don't want to see it.
Iuvenalis, I always liked your posts as you seemed to have a level head, so I don't know quite what happened. You only listed 3 things that Sede called me & asked me what other untrue things did Sede say about me. Well let me count the ways!! (& all of this is in 2 or 3 posts of his!) Guess you missed them.
1. a blasphemer
2. embittered (because I'm an ex-nun!!! & divorced)
3.unreliable
4.selfish
5. malignant
6. a bully
7. depraved
8. cruel
9. wicked
10. a liar
11. a sadist (about 4x)
12. vicious
13. highly unreliable
14. untrustworthy
15. a Pavlov dog
Now mind you he's never met me or my family yet branded me in the must ugly way & refused to answer a question I asked him. I could very well have thrown a few things his way but instead I noted that actually Sede can be very nice - if you agree with him. But if you don't then watch out because he will crucify you. Which is the truth. When he called me a blasphemer I said that God has a sense of humor with us poor mortals & he comes back with "I (meaning himself) have a sense of humor too." Honest, he said that.
Now you come along & call me demonical & tell me to go to Hell where I belong!!
I would not salivate if PW were to fall - That is absolutely false. I'm not envious of her family being well-off. Wherever did you get that impression? You say her family wouldn't help her because she looks like she joined a cult, but she does have contact with both parents!! She herself has said so. She also has a grandmother that she visits. So it's possible they are helping her.
PW always felt that people here didn't understand her & bemoaned how she couldn't express herself better. Guess I have the same problem. But for a man to tell me to go back to Hell from whence I came is truly devilish. Scary really.
What did I do to you to deserve such treatment?
Matthew says I should apologize to PW simply because I made an observation, (what would I apologize for? Sorry I observed something?!) yet ignores completely when someone wants me to go to Hell!! I never called PW names like other Catholics here are doing to me. Yet you think I belong in Hell!!
The good thing in all this mess is now I know how Christ felt.
-
:popcorn:
-
Guess I still live too sheltered a life. I was taught that telling someone to go to Hell was very serious & very wrong for 2 reasons & never do it.
-
HMMMMMMMMMM, Cognorati,
I was thinking about you today. Please correct me if Im wrong, but I think I remember you a while back when the subject was blacks and racism. I think you told us you were a black woman who experienced a lot of racist attitudes at the SSPX chapel you attended. At that time you said you wanted to leave the Catholic church. Am I right on this? Too lazy to research the threads to find your comments, but i will, if I have to. :scratchchin:
If she is black and female, she might as well exit CI then....
-
This PW sage is fascinating & truly mindboggling!
Tiffany, you put into words what I couldn't. As I said in the beginning, I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with PW but you did! Then everyone (except a few) started shooting the messengers instead of really looking into what was going on. They just don't want to see it.
Iuvenalis, I always liked your posts as you seemed to have a level head, so I don't know quite what happened. You only listed 3 things that Sede called me & asked me what other untrue things did Sede say about me. Well let me count the ways!! (& all of this is in 2 or 3 posts of his!) Guess you missed them.
1. a blasphemer
2. embittered (because I'm an ex-nun!!! & divorced)
3.unreliable
4.selfish
5. malignant
6. a bully
7. depraved
8. cruel
9. wicked
10. a liar
11. a sadist (about 4x)
12. vicious
13. highly unreliable
14. untrustworthy
15. a Pavlov dog
Now mind you he's never met me or my family yet branded me in the must ugly way & refused to answer a question I asked him. I could very well have thrown a few things his way but instead I noted that actually Sede can be very nice - if you agree with him. But if you don't then watch out because he will crucify you. Which is the truth. When he called me a blasphemer I said that God has a sense of humor with us poor mortals & he comes back with "I (meaning himself) have a sense of humor too." Honest, he said that.
Now you come along & call me demonical & tell me to go to Hell where I belong!!
I would not salivate if PW were to fall - That is absolutely false. I'm not envious of her family being well-off. Wherever did you get that impression? You say her family wouldn't help her because she looks like she joined a cult, but she does have contact with both parents!! She herself has said so. She also has a grandmother that she visits. So it's possible they are helping her.
PW always felt that people here didn't understand her & bemoaned how she couldn't express herself better. Guess I have the same problem. But for a man to tell me to go back to Hell from whence I came is truly devilish. Scary really.
What did I do to you to deserve such treatment?
Matthew says I should apologize to PW simply because I made an observation, (what would I apologize for? Sorry I observed something?!) yet ignores completely when someone wants me to go to Hell!! I never called PW names like other Catholics here are doing to me. Yet you think I belong in Hell!!
The good thing in all this mess is now I know how Christ felt.
I have noticed that a woman labelled feminist can be called anything and slandered to the high hills here, and the usual defenders are silent... a woman perceived to be non-feminist is defended Also one man makes an inaccurate accusation or assessment of your beliefs, and then others pile up on that error and add the accusations. It is sad. We should be able to communicate civilly, we are all Catholics, even if some of us are only exploring TRAD.
-
Guess I still live too sheltered a life. I was taught that telling someone to go to Hell was very serious & very wrong for 2 reasons & never do it.
I was taught that the person saying that is actually thinking they are God, and that is is a serious sin.
-
This PW sage is fascinating & truly mindboggling!
Tiffany, you put into words what I couldn't. As I said in the beginning, I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with PW but you did! Then everyone (except a few) started shooting the messengers instead of really looking into what was going on. They just don't want to see it.
Iuvenalis, I always liked your posts as you seemed to have a level head, so I don't know quite what happened. You only listed 3 things that Sede called me & asked me what other untrue things did Sede say about me. Well let me count the ways!! (& all of this is in 2 or 3 posts of his!) Guess you missed them.
1. a blasphemer
2. embittered (because I'm an ex-nun!!! & divorced)
3.unreliable
4.selfish
5. malignant
6. a bully
7. depraved
8. cruel
9. wicked
10. a liar
11. a sadist (about 4x)
12. vicious
13. highly unreliable
14. untrustworthy
15. a Pavlov dog
Now mind you he's never met me or my family yet branded me in the must ugly way & refused to answer a question I asked him. I could very well have thrown a few things his way but instead I noted that actually Sede can be very nice - if you agree with him. But if you don't then watch out because he will crucify you. Which is the truth. When he called me a blasphemer I said that God has a sense of humor with us poor mortals & he comes back with "I (meaning himself) have a sense of humor too." Honest, he said that.
Now you come along & call me demonical & tell me to go to Hell where I belong!!
I would not salivate if PW were to fall - That is absolutely false. I'm not envious of her family being well-off. Wherever did you get that impression? You say her family wouldn't help her because she looks like she joined a cult, but she does have contact with both parents!! She herself has said so. She also has a grandmother that she visits. So it's possible they are helping her.
PW always felt that people here didn't understand her & bemoaned how she couldn't express herself better. Guess I have the same problem. But for a man to tell me to go back to Hell from whence I came is truly devilish. Scary really.
What did I do to you to deserve such treatment?
Matthew says I should apologize to PW simply because I made an observation, (what would I apologize for? Sorry I observed something?!) yet ignores completely when someone wants me to go to Hell!! I never called PW names like other Catholics here are doing to me. Yet you think I belong in Hell!!
The good thing in all this mess is now I know how Christ felt.
I have noticed that a woman labelled feminist can be called anything and slandered to the high hills here, and the usual defenders are silent... a woman perceived to be non-feminist is defended Also one man makes an inaccurate accusation or assessment of your beliefs, and then others pile up on that error and add the accusations. It is sad. We should be able to communicate civilly, we are all Catholics, even if some of us are only exploring TRAD.
There is a lot of feminist thought on this board but I have noticed the label gets thrown at a woman when there is a disagreement. I was called out for promoting androgyny because I posted about single mothers homeschooling. I'm sure I'll fit right in at the NOW rally..
-
This PW sage is fascinating & truly mindboggling!
!!
The good thing in all this mess is now I know how Christ felt.
I have noticed that a woman labelled feminist can be called anything and slandered to the high hills here, and the usual defenders are silent... a woman perceived to be non-feminist is defended Also one man makes an inaccurate accusation or assessment of your beliefs, and then others pile up on that error and add the accusations. It is sad. We should be able to communicate civilly, we are all Catholics, even if some of us are only exploring TRAD.
There is a lot of feminist thought on this board but I have noticed the label gets thrown at a woman when there is a disagreement. I was called out for promoting androgyny because I posted about single mothers homeschooling. I'm sure I'll fit right in at the NOW rally..
LOL, it is easy to label things once you get in the habit of doing so. I am tryng to decide if the views here are true TRAD or or a kind of Cafeteria TRAD. Wish there was a magisterium that I could consult. I am still looking for the place where I fit in--am becoming increasingly convinced it is Heaven, so I'd better be really good.
-
I've read through this thread twice, and I'm still at a loss to see what it has
accomplished.
It seems to be filled with infighting, backbiting, innuendo, subjectivism, spite,
malice and mutual contempt. How can it be seen as uplifting in any way?
If you're looking for an example of what Catholic intercourse (conversation) is
all about, I do not recommend looking at this thread.
My 2 cents. :geezer:
-
:reading:
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So, I wouldn't worry too much about what other people think of you, since lots of people who seem like they are trying to be good Catholics, end up being hated by other Catholics, on fairly regular basis! :alcohol:
-
Marcelino, I'm not worried about what prople think of me! I've engaged in many discussions with many different types of people & even the pagans & heathens or even bad Catholics have never told me to go to Hell. Leave it to a 'trad' to!! If I were to call them a name it wouldn't be a Catholic but a Cathari. (Not a 'perfect' but a 'believer').
btw I'm now reading "St. Francis of Assisi" written by one of his companions & it's packed with quotes from Scripture, one of which stood out to me. It's from Ezech. 3,18. It basically said that if God said to the wicked that he will die because of his wickedness & I do not speak to him & declare that to him & he does indeed die, then God will require his blood on my hand!! So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
-
Well, props for knowing who the Cathari are.
-
So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
So in other words, you concede that you TRY to be annoying towards other people. That's not a good sign.
I agree that Iuvenalis should not have said that to you, but let's move away from that and focus on what you were saying about what Sede stated about you. You fail to mention that you called people on this forum "wolves", and you also suggested that I'm naive and that "someone needs to take the blankie off my head". Quit painting yourself as some innocent little victim, Thorn. You're just as guilty of insulting other people.
-
Marcelino, I'm not worried about what prople think of me! I've engaged in many discussions with many different types of people & even the pagans & heathens or even bad Catholics have never told me to go to Hell. Leave it to a 'trad' to!! If I were to call them a name it wouldn't be a Catholic but a Cathari. (Not a 'perfect' but a 'believer').
btw I'm now reading "St. Francis of Assisi" written by one of his companions & it's packed with quotes from Scripture, one of which stood out to me. It's from Ezech. 3,18. It basically said that if God said to the wicked that he will die because of his wickedness & I do not speak to him & declare that to him & he does indeed die, then God will require his blood on my hand!! So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
Now look who is playing the victim card. Didn't you suggest that was PW's "thing"?
Nice try trying to put words in my mouth, I didn't say go to Hell, I said go back to whatever demoniac region (chthonic≠Hell) belched you forth.
If I wanted to say "Go to Hell" I would have said it, no bones. I am unsubtle.
Just because you're illiterate doesn't mean you get to take it how you want, or however you parse what I said from the depths of your ignorance.
I said what I said, **I did not say what I did not say**.
You *did* recount all of PW's travails, so clearly you've been keeping track. And you *did not* say we/you should pray for her. Instead you aired (what you inferred was) her dirty laundry.
Where did I get the idea that you envied her affluence (your impression, it never occurred to me she was from money)? Because you brought it up non seqitur. It wasn't relevant, nor indicated in her post (the opposite actually) but you felt it had to come up. It's on your mind. So yes, I can see you've ruminated on the matter.
And I'm saying you have no idea what her situation is. Neither do I. This did not stop you from calumniating the girl. To use the crass term, this is talking out of your nethers. The difference is that*my* speculation gave her the benefit of the doubt. Have you heard of this concept?
I mentioned 3 things Sede said only *in this thread*. Glad you keep a running tally however. It would seem dear Sede has some history with you, and I'm not sure I can disagree with the monikers you listed after this brief encounter.
You will not cow me with your amateurish antics. I know your type: You've now said 3 times (by my count) that I told you to go to Hell. I will not allow you to define what I said. Further insistence on this strawman will be ignored, and the intelligent will dismiss this as well.
You're a piece of work to insist you know how Our Lord felt.
And calling me an Albigensian? Pfffft. Really?
-
So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
So in other words, you concede that you TRY to be annoying towards other people. That's not a good sign.
I agree that Iuvenalis should not have said that to you, but let's move away from that and focus on what you were saying about what Sede stated about you. You fail to mention that you called people on this forum "wolves", and you also suggested that I'm naive and that "someone needs to take the blankie off my head". Quit painting yourself as some innocent little victim, Thorn. You're just as guilty of insulting other people.
SS, nope. Didn't say that.
-
Hello everyone, remember that there were only 3 people at the foot of the Cross when Our Lord died, this is something I hang on to when called a schismatic.
Update: My husband grows weaker with each passing day, but he is also growing stronger in the Faith, which surprised me somewhat because he was never a showy person, but private about his traditional Catholic beliefs.
I dare not leave my home these days unless its to Mass, and hurry home, and even then only on Sundays since I have two living with me on Hospice, my husband and my mother, age 97. She suffered a TIA last week, and my husband has fallen a few times. I run to the grocery store when they are both taking a nap right after lunch to pick up some supplies. Hospice is great, they bring me whatever it is I need, I had no idea what a wonderful organization Hospice is.
I am trying to be strong but it is very hard, especially when my husband spoiled me for the last 51 years of our marriage, now I have to do it all myself.
I think about this forum and everyone here, and I hope the PW will not leave, everyone has something to offer, we are all in this fight together, and we must eventually unite. That is the Will of God.
-
Hello everyone, remember that there were only 3 people at the foot of the Cross when Our Lord died, this is something I hang on to when called a schismatic.
Update: My husband grows weaker with each passing day, but he is also growing stronger in the Faith, which surprised me somewhat because he was never a showy person, but private about his traditional Catholic beliefs.
I dare not leave my home these days unless its to Mass, and hurry home, and even then only on Sundays since I have two living with me on Hospice, my husband and my mother, age 97. She suffered a TIA last week, and my husband has fallen a few times. I run to the grocery store when they are both taking a nap right after lunch to pick up some supplies. Hospice is great, they bring me whatever it is I need, I had no idea what a wonderful organization Hospice is.
I am trying to be strong but it is very hard, especially when my husband spoiled me for the last 51 years of our marriage, now I have to do it all myself.
I think about this forum and everyone here, and I hope the PW will not leave, everyone has something to offer, we are all in this fight together, and we must eventually unite. That is the Will of God.
:pray:
-
Prayers for you and your family, Myrna. :pray:
-
Dear Myrna,
I hope that everything, in some unexpected way, turns out better than you expect.
Pray a lot.
Miracles do happen.
It is important that your husband's soul is prepared for death, because sometimes, in these circuмstances, sad things can happen very quickly.
But you will get prayers from fellow Catholics on CathInfo.
You are a good lady.
And you are a good Catholic.
Your posts here are an asset to CathInfo.
At least living near Mount St. Michael, in Spokane, you have some of the holiest traditional Catholic priests on earth to assist your husband, and you.
I am glad for you that you have those holy CMRI Catholic priests.
And you have the comfort of the Traditional Latin Mass.
I will pray for your husband.
I will pray for you.
God Bless you, Myrna.
God Bless your husband.
Yours, Sede Catholic.
-
My prayers for both Myrna and PW.
:pray:
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Marcelino, I'm not worried about what prople think of me! I've engaged in many discussions with many different types of people & even the pagans & heathens or even bad Catholics have never told me to go to Hell. Leave it to a 'trad' to!! If I were to call them a name it wouldn't be a Catholic but a Cathari. (Not a 'perfect' but a 'believer').
btw I'm now reading "St. Francis of Assisi" written by one of his companions & it's packed with quotes from Scripture, one of which stood out to me. It's from Ezech. 3,18. It basically said that if God said to the wicked that he will die because of his wickedness & I do not speak to him & declare that to him & he does indeed die, then God will require his blood on my hand!! So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
That's an interesting way of seeing that. Although I haven't agreed with many of the things you've said/the way you've said them/your saying them at all, you've always seemed sincere to me. You've never struck me as the sort of person who is intentionally malicious. I'm sorry I can't say that for everyone here :pray: So, while some may think you're headed for hell, I think you've got a place in purgatory :wink:
Hope to see you there! :cheers:
-
So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
So in other words, you concede that you TRY to be annoying towards other people. That's not a good sign.
I agree that Iuvenalis should not have said that to you, but let's move away from that and focus on what you were saying about what Sede stated about you. You fail to mention that you called people on this forum "wolves", and you also suggested that I'm naive and that "someone needs to take the blankie off my head". Quit painting yourself as some innocent little victim, Thorn. You're just as guilty of insulting other people.
SS, nope. Didn't say that.
Sorry that I misunderstood, Iuvenalis.
-
Hello everyone, remember that there were only 3 people at the foot of the Cross when Our Lord died, this is something I hang on to when called a schismatic.
Update: My husband grows weaker with each passing day, but he is also growing stronger in the Faith, which surprised me somewhat because he was never a showy person, but private about his traditional Catholic beliefs.
I dare not leave my home these days unless its to Mass, and hurry home, and even then only on Sundays since I have two living with me on Hospice, my husband and my mother, age 97. She suffered a TIA last week, and my husband has fallen a few times. I run to the grocery store when they are both taking a nap right after lunch to pick up some supplies. Hospice is great, they bring me whatever it is I need, I had no idea what a wonderful organization Hospice is.
I am trying to be strong but it is very hard, especially when my husband spoiled me for the last 51 years of our marriage, now I have to do it all myself.
I think about this forum and everyone here, and I hope the PW will not leave, everyone has something to offer, we are all in this fight together, and we must eventually unite. That is the Will of God.
Prayers and best wishes for your husband, mother and you.
-
So my choice of being a thorn is not far-fetched. Like I said it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
So in other words, you concede that you TRY to be annoying towards other people. That's not a good sign.
I agree that Iuvenalis should not have said that to you, but let's move away from that and focus on what you were saying about what Sede stated about you. You fail to mention that you called people on this forum "wolves", and you also suggested that I'm naive and that "someone needs to take the blankie off my head". Quit painting yourself as some innocent little victim, Thorn. You're just as guilty of insulting other people.
SS, nope. Didn't say that.
Sorry that I misunderstood, Iuvenalis.
It's fine. There are too many posts in this thread to keep track of every word.
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Myrna, sorry for the heavy cross & be grateful for those 51 years! Yes, Hospice is a wonderful thing. My cousin had them & his wife later told me how very helpful & caring they all were. I'll remember you & family in prayer.
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SS - I never said I TRY to be annoying!! Why would you post such a thing? Some things I point out annoy people - especially the guilty ones- but I don't do it to annoy I assure you.
Iuvenalis - I'll send you a crisp $20 bill if you can show where I used 'victim' in regards to PW. I think you're mixing me up with others. You're wrong, just as SS is wrong.
Educate me - what other demoniac region is there? Personally I think you're trying to wiggle out of the fact that you told me to go to Hell.
I wished PW well on several posts that apparently you didn't see.
I didn't calumniate her either. I only went on what she herself posted. Again, you must be confusing me with others. This is a public forum & she posted her last post & I responded by an observation of the timing. This is a mortal sin?!!
Sede is someone who is very sweet & nice to people that agree with him, but heaven help you if you dare to disagree with him. He reminds me of the girl with a curl in the middle of her forehead.
I'm in no way trying to cow you. I'm just repeating what you said & apparently others took what you said the same way I did - that I should go back to Hell.
I didn't call you an Albigensian. Wrong again. Why this intense hatred? Why so touchy about PW?
Marcelino - Thank you. I'm glad you get it. We'll see each other & everyone else on Judgement Day when all things will be made known. YEAH!!!
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Thank you everyone for all your prayers. That is what I need right now more than anything else.
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SS - I never said I TRY to be annoying!! Why would you post such a thing? Some things I point out annoy people - especially the guilty ones- but I don't do it to annoy I assure you.
Thorn, I wasn't born yesterday. You picked your screen-name because you admit that you've been a thorn in people's side - an annoyance, basically. You even brag that you act as a "thorn" because "someone has to do it". The fact that you seem proud of it is frightening, I must say.
Iuvenalis - I'll send you a crisp $20 bill if you can show where I used 'victim' in regards to PW. I think you're mixing me up with others. You're wrong, just as SS is wrong.
Again, you've always played victim on this board, Thorn. For instance, you called me a wolf and said that I was naive, but when I got frustrated with you and your behavior, you acted as if I was rude to lose my patience with you. There are other people on Trad forums who play martyr just like you do, and it's a dishonest tactic people resort to in an attempt to win arguments.
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Yes, I think it's good that PW step away from the forum, either temporarily or permanently. I wish her well.
One more interesting little tidbit: I noticed that she started her idealized nanny job Sept. 5th. At the time, I said to a few people, "Let's make a bet as to how long this will last. She's going to get a dose of reality, which is good." She made a couple of posts about the job at first & then all was silent. Exactly one month later, she posts that she must leave the forum as her personal life is a disaster, she's in financial straits & dealing with some issues. Perhaps she either quit or was let go at the end of a month's work & didn't want to tell the forum. (Else why would she be in financial straits?) Did reality strike?
Yes, I know that she has student loans but since her parents are well off they probably have been helping her with them.
I'm not ragging on her here. Just an observation. It seems that what she DOESN"T tell, makes all the difference in the world.
It's incredibly uncharitable and way out of line for you rashly judge PW like this.
Do you even know what rash judgment is?
If this isn't rash judgment, then there is no such thing and NO ONE has to ever worry about it, ever.
You owe her an apology.
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for defending that poor young Catholic woman, PW.
Matthew is right: Thorn is guilty of rash judgment.
And again Matthew is right: Thorn does owe PW an apology.
Matthew, I just want to say that many people here will share my deep appreciation for the way you have several times intervened about this sickening bullying of this young lady.
Thank you for being a very good and conscientious moderator.
God Bless you, Matthew.
Yours, Sede Catholic.
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Thorn has even been bullying PenitentWoman after PenitentWoman has been driven off of CathInfo by Thorn and the other Feminists.
Thorn has actually been bullying PW on PW’s own leaving thread.
Thorn has actually been bullying PW after PW posted that she has left CathInfo.
That is wicked and twisted.
Thorn has succeeded in driving PW away from CathInfo, and away from traditional Catholicism.
But Thorn is still not satisfied.
In PW’s own goodbye thread, after PW has left CathInfo, Thorn has still continued to bully PW.
Thorn has defied Matthew, who criticized Thorn’s rash judgment, etc.
Thorn has continued to criticized PW.
Matthew told Thorn that Thorn should apologize to PW.
Thorn has again defied Matthew and not done that.
However I have informed Thorn that when she bullies PW she can expect a public rebuke from me.
It is not my wish to confront Thorn, but as a Catholic man I cannot stand by and watch this malicious old woman torment this young girl endlessly.
Every time Thorn bullies PW, Thorn can expect a vigorous response from me.
Then Thorn will stop.
Only Thorn can stop this discord.
I will now respond to Thorn’s latest persecution of PW, as well as what Thorn has recently said about me concerning this matter.
Thorn has said that I have made untrue statements about her.
That is false.
Thorn has also misrepresented what I have said about her on another thread.
This is what I really said, and every word of it is true:
Sede Catholic said:
Thorn should leave this poor young girl PW alone.
Thorn is the one who started this furious tirade against Penitent Woman, just over three weeks after PW joined CathInfo.
Thorn started her spiteful tirade against PW on 6 July, and it has continued ...months later.
These are some examples of Thorn’s bullying of PW from early July:
I read PW's post last nite & quite frankly didn't quite believe the story. A few things just didn't add up but I didn't down thumb her. Neither did I respond.
So now that I see the others' responses & have had time to think & at the risk of an onslaught of thumbs down - I still hesitate to believe this story for several reasons. I apologize upfront if I'm off the wall or wrong in this to PW, but I'm being truthful.
Look at this amazingly long list of insulting questions that Thorn grilled PW with on just one day:
This is in answer to PW & Capt McQuigg regarding my post that PW's story doesn't ring true to me. First tho, I need to clarify, as it looks like most people here never read my intro - that I'm not a 'he' but a 'she' & an old one at that.
There is dissonance or mismatched statements & it's hard to put your finger on it but I'm going to try. I will go by paragraphs.
1. She grew up in a terrible NO home with a feminist mother & adulterist father, w/o positive influence yet she loved going to church albeit NO. Question for PW: How did you take your spirituality into your own teenage hands? Were you an only child? So - you HAD to go away to college after H.S. Isn't that what most HS grads did then? What did you want or plan to do instead? …
2. If you grew up with a feminist mother & only knew the NO, how did you or could you discern at that young inexperienced age if the professors were radical & brainwashing the students? Isn't that all you knew anyway? Isn't that what you already heard at home? (See what I mean about dissonance?)
Those messages were already in your head from your terrible home weren't they?
If provocative dress bothered you, why didn't you work at McDonalds, Carl's Jr., Chucky Cheese, Pizza Hut or any number of other fast food joints around...
3 If your parents were so bad & you were already out of the house, why would their divorce send you into a depression, & even a deep depression? When your mother visited you & asked if you'd been with a man yet, did she suggest the pill? That would be the logical advice from a feminist after broaching that subject wouldn't it?
You were losing respect for yourself at the same time working where provocative dress was required. Why? especially if you wanted to 'wait for marriage' & you worked there willingly I gather. btw - where did you get that quaint idea of waiting?
4. Is this man the only man you met while in college? Did you make any friends in college or work - male or female? …
6. Why would he call you a whore if you were his? & had put up a fight? Obviously you're telling us that wasn't consenual so you're unjustly called a whore which you're not. Right?
7. Strange that you were raised by a feminist, further educated by them & steeped in the NO & yet you state the conservative, traditional mantra that you take no welfare because taxpayers shouldn't pay for your bad choices. Where, when & how did you learn that?
Trust me, thousands of us are frugal too & have had periods in our lives when money was scarce. No big deal there.
8. How many years did you go to college & did you graduate?
9. Where did you learn to cover your head in church? So far you've never mentioned the TLM & only know the NO & I've not seen anyone covering their heads in the NO but then I haven't been to very many NO. I'm just having difficulty understanding your story when all you've been around seems to be modernists & worse, yet you know quite a bit about tradition. Now your neighbor is a bouncer at a strip club & tempts you. More agony.
10. Indeed you do seem to be obsessing about finding a husband. You do need to work on yourself…
11. You feel that the Holy Spirit has called you to traditional Catholicism. How so? Where, when & how did you discover trad Catholicism? It couldn't have just shown up at your doorstep, did it? What would cause you to think you can't enter a trad church w/o a ring?
Did you read about keeping your daughter from others from tradition in action - the same website…
12. ALL you want is for a righteous man to not be afraid of you? Really? That's all you want? You may want to be a wife but God may have other plans. Then what?
Are your parents in the picture, or any siblings? What does your mother say & think now? …
Last question: Why don't you want to talk to a trad priest? If you're for real, he's the only one that can help you.
All that bullying and questioning was from Thorn against PW on just one day, the 7 July.
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I also said:
I had to speak bluntly to Thorn:
Shut up, Thorn.
Get off Penitent Woman’s back.
You are sinning wickedly by persecuting and tormenting this young girl, with your malicious cruelty.
I choose my name because I was a thorn in the side of a few people even before I joined this forum.
That is the wrong attitude to have on a Catholic forum.
I was a thorn in this priest's side & have been a thorn in the side of others I've encountered along the Way.
Thorn displays a vile attitude.
I've been a thorn in his side & now even when I left his chapel & left him alone I must still prick his conscience.
Thorn is very, very, malicious.
Excuse the dripping sarcasm but you really deserve it. (I didn't pick Thorn (as, in the side of) for nothing.
Being a thorn in the side of other Catholics is obviously an important part of Thorn’s life.
Thorn, you chose your user name well. You certainly do cause a lot of suffering.
Thorn claims to be an ex-nun.
Thorn also claims to be divorced.
I would have thought that a nun would have taken a vow of perpetual chastity.
So how is Thorn also divorced?
It sounds rather confusing.
But I believe Thorn.
I believe that Thorn is a divorced woman in her seventies, who somehow also manages to be an ex-nun.
After all, many ex-nuns are bitter Feminists. Many divorced women are bitter Feminists.
Thorn has claimed concern for PW, but I think that Thorn started this cruel, cruel attempt to humiliate this poor young girl.
So it is malice and hypocrisy from Thorn.
Thorn also dared to tell men like Tele and Spiritus that they should not give PW advice, because they are men.
So Thorn wanted to deprive PW of good advice.
Then if PW was isolated she would be in the bullying clutches of these Feminists.
Thorn, you are the last person fit to give advice to a young girl who wants to find husband and remain happily married.
You are, after all, a sadistic, divorced, ex-nun.
The quotes from Thorn from 7 July and since, prove that what I said in the above post is true.
Thorn’s behaviour towards PW has been very sinful.
And Thorn has started a thread in which she raises the evil, untrue idea that Our Lady of Fatima is a deception of the devil.
Thorn said about Fatima:Where my belief that the devil MAY be involved comes from two things.
That is simply evil.
What kind of Catholic tries to persuade people that Our Lady of Fatima is an apparition from the devil.
Finally, even when Thorn & Co have driven poor PW off of CathInfo, they still try to destroy her reputation further.
Even to the point where both Thorn and Tiffany have defied Matthew’s stated wishes about this matter.
This incredibly sadistic bullying of young PW is simply one of the most unjust and upsetting things that has happened on CathInfo.
And the many good people here can see that.
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Dear Sede, I think it is best to drop the issue. PW isn't deeply bothered by Thorns nasty insinuations, just perplexed. PW is away from the forum because she believes she has an inordinate attachment to it, she is not being driven away from Catholic Tradition. You can be sure of that.
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I am not prolonging the issue.
Thorn has used PW's own leaving thread to persecute PW.
So the matter is being prolonged by Thorn.
PW said that she was leaving because of what Tiffany had said about her.
PW told us that at the begining of this thread.
So PW left because of the bullying that she got here.
Thorn and the other Feminists have driven PW off of CathInfo.
Even after they have bullied her off of the Forum, they are still posting against her.
That level of vindictiveness is shocking.
This matter of PW being persecuted until she has left CathInfo, is very important for the Forum.
I do not recall a similar situation where a very bad injustice has prevailed on CathInfo.
A good poster has been obliterated.
Those guilty of the persecution of PW have gloated over their triumph.
They have emerged from this unpunished.
A young Catholic girl came on here in search of traditional Catholicism.
She was bullied off of CathInfo by impossibly aggressive Feminists.
If this situation goes uncorrected, then something will have spoilt the good name of the best of the traditional Catholic forums.
I do not want CathInfo to have such a remarkably stark and blatant stain on its honour.
I like to think of CathInfo as a good place. A noble place.
I do not want it to change into a place like FE or AQ.
We must hope that in some way, at the last minute, goodness will prevail over evil.
We cannot be certain, in this case, that it will happen. But we must hope so.
We would not want to see a young Catholic girl who wanted our help permanently kept out by sadistic Feminists.
Something about CathInfo will have changed for the worse if that wrong is not righted.
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The catty females have only embarrassed themselves. You don't worry about PW, she's doing well.
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The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
PW does not appear to be doing well.
This was posted less than a week ago.
I think that the wicked way that poor young Catholic woman was driven off of here by sadistic, bullying Feminists actually matters.
It should not just be ignored.
Or CathInfo will have changed for the worse.
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Oh, dear! I fear that I have to agree with Tele once more! I do believe that PW isn't bothered by what I've posted because she knows the truth. The boys are the only ones really bothered & curiously, totally bent out of shape.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QER1ddSINY
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QER1ddSINY
:popcorn::applause:Thanks Tele! That was very enjoyable!
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Oh, dear! I fear that I have to agree with Tele once more! I do believe that PW isn't bothered by what I've posted because she knows the truth. The boys are the only ones really bothered & curiously, totally bent out of shape.
I am not a boy and I am bothered by this quite a bit.
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Yes, Hospice is a wonderful thing.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude here, but no, I'm afraid that is not so Thorn. Hospice is not a wonderful thing. I wasn't going to say anything, but then I thought that it would be wrong of me not to tell the truth.
Hospice is basically a tool of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, something that simply suits their population control agenda. Just as abortion kills off babies, hospice kills off old people. It may sound crazy, but it also sounds crazy that ʝʊdɛօ-Masons are striving for world domination. But as we know, that's not crazy, it's a fact.
Let me give you some facts about Hospice: the first Hospice was started in France as an OPEN euthanasia group. Hospice still is a euthanasia group, they just aren't open about it anymore. They try to paint themselves as caring people who help elderly folks die a peaceful death, just as the Shriners try to paint themselves as wonderful people who help those in need with their hospitals. But really, their job is to kill them off. It's called "death by morphine". Now, morphine is a good drug for pain, but when someone is given too much of it, they can die. And that's what Hospice does, they give the patients an overdose of morphine under the guise of "managing their pain", which puts them in a coma. Then, they eventually die.
Here's one instance of someone who has dealt with Hospice: a Catholic lawyer once allowed his mother to go into Hospice after she had a stroke. After several days, she went into a coma. The Hospice nurses came to the lawyer and told him that his mother was dying. When asked what was wrong with her, he was told that she was in a coma. He then said "I want you to take her off ALL medications". They didn't want to do it, but being a lawyer, he threatened them with lawsuit if they didn't. So they took her off all medications, and six days letter, she got better and went home. That is a true story.
Finally, here is an article from 2005 about Hospice written by Traditional Catholic Matt Abbot:
Is hospice care safe?
By Matt C. Abbott
I received the following e-mail from Ron Panzer, president of Hospice Patients Alliance (www.hospicepatients.org/euth-center.html):
Right to life organizations have been out-maneuvered by the so-called right to die organizations. How did this occur? We have to look at the history of the right to die organizations and then the answer will be clear.
Before the Third Reich, before World War II, the eugenics and euthanasia advocates were quite active in the U.S. The Euthanasia Society of America, formed in 1938 in New York, having failed in getting passage of laws legalizing euthanasia, changed its tactics. Realizing that the sanctity of life ethic was alive and well in the U.S., they sought a way to chip away at the bedrock blocking their way. Commissioning research to learn what phrases their dark agenda could be palatably sold to the American public, they came up with terms such as 'choice in dying,' 'dying well,' 'the right to die' and 'patient choice.'
In the 1960s they changed their name to Choice in Dying, choosing to focus on incrementally advancing the euthanasia agenda. Living wills, advanced directives, and do not resuscitate orders were successfully sold to the U.S. and accepted by the mainstream health care industry policymakers.
Simultaneous with the introduction of the living will and the advanced directives initiative, hospice care arrived on the scene, suggesting that we avoid aggressive acute hospital care when such interventions may be burdensome and intrusive for patients who are truly dying. Providing compassionate care to the terminally ill, relieving their suffering while allowing a natural death in its own timing ... who could object?
What the public did not know is that the first hospice in our nation, the Connecticut Hospice, was founded by a major representative of the euthanasia movement, Florence Wald, MSN, who stated that assisted ѕυιcιdє should be available for just about any reason at all:
'I'll tell you the way I see it, and I know that I differ from Cicely Saunders, who is very much against assisted ѕυιcιdє. I disagree with her view on the basis that there are cases in which either the pain or the debilitation the patient is experiencing is more than can be borne, whether it be economically, physically, emotionally, or socially. For this reason, I feel a range of options should be available to the patient, and this should include assisted ѕυιcιdє.' (JAMA. 281; 1683-1685, May 12, 1999, Hospice Care in the United States: A Conversation with Florence S. Wald, M. J. Friedrich)
While many in hospice assert that they will neither hasten death nor prolong death, hospice staff around the country may misuse common end of life interventions to hasten death. Terminal sedation, a common intervention to relieve severe agitation at the end of life, can be misapplied to place patients into a medically-induced coma from which they are not allowed to recover. They die of dehydration while sleeping, thereby allowing for a 'pretty' and 'peaceful,' but unnatural death, i.e., murder.
Right to life organizations have traditionally viewed hospice as the rightful alternative to euthanasia and have ardently supported hospice services, and so they should, IF hospices remain loyal to the original hospice mission of the London-based Dame Cicely Saunders, the founder of the modern hospice movement. But the euthanasia advocates have always known that hospice could be used as the back door to legalization of euthanasia and/or physician-assisted ѕυιcιdє.
And that is what has been occurring throughout the U.S. We have families reporting their loved one was killed off outright within hospices, through inappropriate use of medications when there was no clinical need, resulting in the death of an otherwise non-dying patient.
...The euthanasia advocates have taken over the national policymaking circles of the entire hospice industry. Doubt it? Well, remember the Euthanasia Society of America? It changed its name to Choice in Dying, which sounds great, but was clearly an early indication that the choice they really wanted to promote was the choice to have physician-assisted ѕυιcιdє and/or euthanasia.
Choice in Dying completed its mission, the nationwide acceptance of incremental changes in our attitude toward life, substituting a 'quality of life' ethic for the 'sanctity of life' ethic. Having done its job, it looked forward to the next step: the direct control of the hospice industry. Choice in Dying merged with the hospice industry coalition, Partnership for Caring, whose goal was the changing of state and federal laws to favor utilization of hospice. Partnership for Caring merged with Last Acts, one of the largest hospice coalitions in the world, funded by the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation, to become Last Acts Partnership. Many who have served as Last Acts Partnership's directors also serve on the National Hospice & Palliative Care Organization board.
For example, Mary Labyak, C.E.O. of the Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, served as secretary at the Partnership for Caring and is a prominent leader in the hospice industry, having served on the boards of Last Acts and the National Hospice & Palliative Care Organization. It is Labyak's hospice, Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, which has actively participated in accepting a non-terminal patient, Terri Schiavo, into the hospice, for the express purpose of euthanizing the 'unworthy of life' victim, Terri Schiavo.
Those who think hospice is the safe alternative to open euthanasia have been outfoxed. The euthanasia society has run circles around the well-meaning but naive right to lifers. So whether euthanasia is legalized openly or 'back-doored' through hospice, euthanasia is here, and it has been here for a long time. The National Right to Life Committee has known about the hospice killings for years, yet has refused to expose these killings.
Is the right-to-life groups' stance on hospice consistent with its professed opposition to euthanasia? Only if it admits that the realities in hospice are mixed, and citizens of our nation need to remain vigilant in determining whether their loved one is receiving end of life care, or is receiving care that leads to the end of life at will, i.e., euthanasia.
© Matt C. Abbott
Myrna, I don't mean to come off as insensitive, but you need to get your husband and mother our of Hospice as soon as possible.
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Actually SS, I am glad you posted what you did, and I do believe what you said, however, this Hospice that I have have actually lowered my husband dosage of Morphine, lowered it in half and instructed me not to overdose him.
My mother on the other hand is dying of her heart failure, she is 97 years old and at times her lungs fill up with fluid. Eventually her heart will just fail and she will pass away in her sleep, I hope, instead of a stroke. The only drugs Hospice wants her to take are blood pressure pills and water pills. They like I, want my mother and husband to pass away at home, not a hospital where they do put people on Morphine pumps.
One time when I had a kidney stone, I stayed in the Hospital overnight and they actually gave me a Morphine pump, which I never used because I was afraid.
If what you say is true, then Hospitals are just as guilty.
My husband is on a low dose of 15 mg. time released Morphine in the morning and at bedtime, I don't think it is wrong to allow him this drug if it will give him the presence of mind to say his prayers and reflect on his life, otherwise he will be squirming in bed with pain, and wishing he was dead. Now he does have a will to live, we talk about things, and Hospice brings us what we need for comfort care. The nurse that comes here always asks about how much Morphine he is taking and encourages us not to over dose.
I will pay close attention to what is said by the doctor, of which we will be seeing on Monday, and Hospice instructions.
He, my husband has bone cancer, and it is very painful, it has spread all over and into his brain, there is no hope, except for a miracle from God for a cure, but like you, I do not want him to die till God wants him to die.
I believe that YES, in the medical field there are evil people who think it best to just rush the process and get it over with, one must be careful no matter if you have Hospice or not. I have even heard stories of how your medical doctor can and will help rush the process when a patient lets the doctor know they are interested.
We live in times today where a Traditional Catholic must be very careful, not only does the devil attack the dying, but people who we SHOULD be able to trust can be the devils instrument.
So far I have not seen evidence of any abuse from my Hospice care givers, and when you have two dying people in your home, there are times when I need someone to help if they fall, because I can not lift them up by myself. If I call Hospice they will send out a courtesy ambulance to help me.
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One time when I had a kidney stone, I stayed in the Hospital overnight and they actually gave me a Morphine pump, which I never used because I was afraid.
If what you say is true, then Hospitals are just as guilty.
Well, if I may add one correction here, hospitals have it set to where you can't give yourself too much. I, too, once had a morphine pump, and I couldn't have given myself too much even if I had wanted to. They also closely monitore your breathing when on morphine, to make sure nothing goes wrong. Hospice doesn't do that, they give morphine in random (over)doses.
I'm glad to hear that they instructed you not to overdose him, Myrna. My only advice to you is to be extremely careful. You can't really trust them, as you yourself noted. If your husband goes into a coma, be sure to take him off ALL morphine regardless of what hospice tells you.
And one other thing: I wouldn't call hospice for an emergency, they tell people to call them and not 9-1-1, but that's really a trick, I've heard about it numerous times. I would call 9-1-1.
I know you must be going through a tough time, and you will certainly have my prayers, Myrna.
God Bless.
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Thank you SS, and your right I have been watching every word my doctor and Hospice both tell me.
They did tell me to call Hospice instead of 911, however the nurse added, if it was a matter of life and death and time was of the essence to call 911 because they would get there faster.
So do you think it depends on who they send as a care provider? Just like every organization you have good God fearing people, and then you have the enemies.
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So do you think it depends on who they send as a care provider?
Well, the problem is they're all instructed about the same way. So there's always a huge risk that exists.
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Everyone should be very careful to avoid Hospices.
Hospices are places where they deliberately hasten the death of the patient.
Hospices give medication which rapidly hastens death.
Hospices dehydrate patients, which rapidly hastens death.
Do not be deceived.
If you really love your loved ones, keep them away from these evil Hospices.
Hospices are evil.
Even the “Catholic” ones cannot be trusted.
For help about euthanasia or hospices in the USA call:
Phone TOLL-FREE 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
Mailing Address:
Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network
P.O. Box 521
Narberth, PA 19072
Phone: 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
Email address: info@lifeandhope.com
http://www.terrisfight.org/need-help/
For help in the UK phone:
0800 1691719
The call is FREE.
http://www.spuc.org.uk/about/pfn/support
Here are some links explaining the truth:
http://rense.com/general63/euth.htm
http://www.spuc.org.uk/about/pfn/pfn
http://terrisfight.org/need-help/
http://www.hospicepatients.org/
National Right to Life Committee
512 10th St. NW
Washington, DC 20004
Robert Powell Center for Medical Ethics
phone. 202.626.8800 ext. 162
fax. 202.628.2784
email. medethics@nrlc.org
http://www.nrlc.org/MedEthics/Contact.html
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Hello everyone, remember that there were only 3 people at the foot of the Cross when Our Lord died, this is something I hang on to when called a schismatic.
Update: My husband grows weaker with each passing day, but he is also growing stronger in the Faith, which surprised me somewhat because he was never a showy person, but private about his traditional Catholic beliefs.
I dare not leave my home these days unless its to Mass, and hurry home, and even then only on Sundays since I have two living with me on Hospice, my husband and my mother, age 97. She suffered a TIA last week, and my husband has fallen a few times. I run to the grocery store when they are both taking a nap right after lunch to pick up some supplies. Hospice is great, they bring me whatever it is I need, I had no idea what a wonderful organization Hospice is.
I am trying to be strong but it is very hard, especially when my husband spoiled me for the last 51 years of our marriage, now I have to do it all myself.
I think about this forum and everyone here, and I hope the PW will not leave, everyone has something to offer, we are all in this fight together, and we must eventually unite. That is the Will of God.
Myrna my prayers are with you. My father died at home with dignity with the help of hospice. My father was not drugged but passed peacefully into unconsciousness until Our Heavenly Father called him home. These wonderful people helped with the care of my father thus helping our family some time to rest and regroup in order to continue to care for my father when they were not with us. Myrna I know that this is a difficult time for you, but the people of hospice are helping you to allow your husband and mother die surrounded by those who love them and not die surrounded by those who see them as just another name on a chart. I know this is a difficult cross to bear, but having read your posts I know that your faith will carry you through.
May God bless and keep you Myrna and remember that forum members are praying for you. :pray:
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Thank you everyone for all your prayers. That is what I need right now more than anything else.
Sending prayers--your cross is heavy--may our Lord will sustain you.
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Yes, Hospice is a wonderful thing.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude here, but no, I'm afraid that is not so Thorn. Hospice is not a wonderful thing. I wasn't going to say anything, but then I thought that it would be wrong of me not to tell the truth.
Hospice is basically a tool of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, something that simply suits their population control agenda. Just as abortion kills off babies, hospice kills off old people. It may sound crazy, but it also sounds crazy that ʝʊdɛօ-Masons are striving for world domination. But as we know, that's not crazy, it's a fact.
.
SS< I would guess that you have never taken care of an end stage cancer patient yourself, based on this post. I have cared for two relatives in my house at their end of days, and buried a third, who was in the hospital, TODAY.
Medical care is dependent upon the givers., and their morals.
There are physicians who participate in euthenasia.
Tthere are groups who deliver hospice and palliative care who advocate euthenasia.
There are hospice who administer medication and make a dying patient and his family comfortable as they watch their loved one die inch-by-inch.
There is no denial of food and water or action to hasten the death process, in hospice, it is much more likely in the hospital. By the time hospice is involved the caregiver is tired and lonely and can barely make room for a shower. To imply that all who engage in the assistance of hospice are attempting to "kill off" someone is uncharitable. Hospitals and medical facilities are far more likely to suggest these "Terry Schiavo" types of euthenasia.
Myrna--hang in there--you are not alone and you are doing the best you can. The Lord sees all and is blessing you for keeping these loved ones where they will be most comfortable. I pray for you!
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Loriann, I'm afraid that you are mistaken, and a bit naive about the truth of hospice (no offense).
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Loriann, I'm afraid that you are mistaken, and a bit naive about the truth of hospice (no offense).
None taken,SS, I think you are accepting the paranoia--which we should be paranoid about ALL medical care--hospitals kill far more people.
But I still wish to know--have you cared for a dying person? I still guess not, because you would see how awful it is for them in a hospital.
I also should say that I am only experienced with American hospice, and it is different than that of European hospice. WE will get there shortly, as our quest for nationalized medical care and death panels will begin in 2014.
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The Novus Ordo loves hospice. It seems Novus Ordo groups invariably have a symbiotic relationship with the enemies of the Church.
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The Novus Ordo loves hospice. It seems Novus Ordo groups invariably have a symbiotic relationship with the enemies of the Church.
WEll, we did not use hospice with my Granddad--he did not need iv meds because he could take painkillers orally, and he could eat and drink. He ate a bowl of soup an hour before he passed.
But with Grammee it was different. Her bone cancer was excruciatingly painful, and we had two choices...hospice with a nurse at home or a nursing home. She had to have iv. The hospital had already written her off as dead. They would say insensitive things in front of her. There was no dignity. I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
You can administer palliative care without killing someone. You can adminsiter this care in the home for the comfort and lack of disorientation of the patient. God knows no one can sleep in a hospital.
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
I'll try to explain. My grandmother is someone who speaks obsessively about people's ill health, and she's an obsessive novus ordite from the Chicago area.
When you hear incessant talk about hospice, there's always an undercurrent there. It's the same undercurrent I sense with regard to nearly all liberal Catholic causes.
There's a morbid subtext of promoting euthanasia, even if those involved aren't always aware of it.
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All this "subtext" and "undercurrent" stuff, that people IMAGINE they see, appears to be the cause of most of the fights and bullying on this site and probably, in The World! :jester:
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ESP is not really a "sixth sense." I think it is just a way for our cultural elites to encourage one more stinking vice (gossiping, backbiting, ect).
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(http://www.davidhughes.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/pacman2.gif) :jester:
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sQqA7h94vCM/Tn4B6CXahmI/AAAAAAAAAhg/OTdBhs9PlAg/s1600/128798980375908370.jpg) :jester:
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
Tele is right. Novus Ordites, like Protestants, tend to have a skewed view of certain things, which is why they don't see anything wrong with people who play God and decide who lives and who dies.
Loriann, don't you see that the Masonic government has you fooled? These are the same people who have lied to us about 9/11, the economy, FEMA camps, and MANY other things. These are also the same people behind Hospice.
As far as me caring for elderly people, that's irrelevant because one does not have to care for them to know the truth about Hospice. If you and the rest of the ones who are thumbing down Tele and I want to believe what the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr tells you, that's up to you.
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I suspect Andrew won't be here much longer after the insane post he made above.
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:faint:
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I suspect Andrew won't be here much longer after the insane post he made above.
Buzz off pal.
(little reality check: you aren't really a bishop) :roll-laugh1:
Why don't you buzz off Marcelino. And quit making corny posts and derailing threads with your childish pictures.
Andrew isn't a Bishop either. Unless he's really Bishop Fellay undercover. :furtive:
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I suspect Andrew won't be here much longer after the insane post he made above.
It's simply why I make a post once a month maybe, you people are intent on breaking up the SSPX, when if they were that intent on joining Rome, the Priestly Faternity of St. Peter already broke away from the SSPX to join Rome. Really this is one of the lamest forums I've ever seen.
Then why not quit complaining and leave? AngelQueen would welcome you with open arms.
And I don't wish to see the SSPX break up, actually. But that has nothing to do with this thread. We're discussing Hospice.
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I suspect Andrew won't be here much longer after the insane post he made above.
Buzz off pal.
(little reality check: you aren't really a bishop) :roll-laugh1:
Why don't you buzz off Marcelino. And quit making corny posts and derailing threads with your childish pictures.
Andrew isn't a Bishop either. Unless he's really Bishop Fellay undercover. :furtive:
I thought you were talking to me!
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I suspect Andrew won't be here much longer after the insane post he made above.
Buzz off pal.
(little reality check: you aren't really a bishop) :roll-laugh1:
Why don't you buzz off Marcelino. And quit making corny posts and derailing threads with your childish pictures.
Andrew isn't a Bishop either. Unless he's really Bishop Fellay undercover. :furtive:
I thought you were talking to me!
No, I was talking to Andrew.
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
I'll try to explain. My grandmother is someone who speaks obsessively about people's ill health, and she's an obsessive novus ordite from the Chicago area.
When you hear incessant talk about hospice, there's always an undercurrent there. It's the same undercurrent I sense with regard to nearly all liberal Catholic causes.
There's a morbid subtext of promoting euthanasia, even if those involved aren't always aware of it.
Admitting someone is dying is not promoting euthenasia...
Sometimes people see hidden agendas where there are none.
Maybe your Gramma and I know each other, lol.
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Why don't you buzz off Marcelino. And quit making corny posts and derailing threads with your childish pictures.
There's nothing "childish" about it; lots of people have a bad habit of IMAGINING that they can "read" other people's minds, but they can't! If you can't see that/aren't aware of that, you shouldn't preach to others about maturity.
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
Tele is right. Novus Ordites, like Protestants, tend to have a skewed view of certain things, which is why they don't see anything wrong with people who play God and decide who lives and who dies.
Loriann, don't you see that the Masonic government has you fooled? These are the same people who have lied to us about 9/11, the economy, FEMA camps, and MANY other things. These are also the same people behind Hospice.
As far as me caring for elderly people, that's irrelevant because one does not have to care for them to know the truth about Hospice. If you and the rest of the ones who are thumbing down Tele and I want to believe what the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr tells you, that's up to you.
Well, as one who receives three thumbs down consistently, and is about to bat .500 I truly think the thumbs thing is another way to cowardly hide . I didn't thumb down all of those posts. I think some people would thumb me down if I said red is a primary color.
But onto care for the terminal--IT DOES MATTER. You can't be an expert til you have walked in those shoes.
If everything in the world makes you look over your shoulder, and everything is a conspiracy, and every thing is pronounced without any experience or knowledge, then you are probably paranoid. Your loved ones are more likely to be killed in a hospital.
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Well, as one who receives three thumbs down consistently, and is about to bat .500 I truly think the thumbs thing is another way to cowardly hide . I didn't thumb down all of those posts. I think some people would thumb me down if I said red is a primary color.
Well, I think Marcelino and Andrew were doing most of the thumbing down, especially Andrew, who was trying to hijack the thread. But moving on...
But onto care for the terminal--IT DOES MATTER. You can't be an expert til you have walked in those shoes.
You don't have to be an expert to know the truth.
If everything in the world makes you look over your shoulder, and everything is a conspiracy, and every thing is pronounced without any experience or knowledge, then you are probably paranoid. Your loved ones are more likely to be killed in a hospital.
Nonsense, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr's existance is a FACT.
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Well, as one who receives three thumbs down consistently, and is about to bat .500 I truly think the thumbs thing is another way to cowardly hide . I didn't thumb down all of those posts. I think some people would thumb me down if I said red is a primary color.
Well, I think Marcelino and Andrew were doing most of the thumbing down, especially Andrew, who was trying to hijack the thread. But moving on...
I really don't accuse without knowing--
But onto care for the terminal--IT DOES MATTER. You can't be an expert til you have walked in those shoes.
You don't have to be an expert to know the truth.
You don't know the truth of caring for them and you don;t know the truth of caregiving..
If everything in the world makes you look over your shoulder, and everything is a conspiracy, and every thing is pronounced without any experience or knowledge, then you are probably paranoid. Your loved ones are more likely to be killed in a hospital.
Nonsense, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr's existance is a FACT.
I don't dispute NO--I dispute all of the conspiracy theories I read about here.
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
Tele is right. Novus Ordites, like Protestants, tend to have a skewed view of certain things, which is why they don't see anything wrong with people who play God and decide who lives and who dies.
Loriann, don't you see that the Masonic government has you fooled? These are the same people who have lied to us about 9/11, the economy, FEMA camps, and MANY other things. These are also the same people behind Hospice.
As far as me caring for elderly people, that's irrelevant because one does not have to care for them to know the truth about Hospice. If you and the rest of the ones who are thumbing down Tele and I want to believe what the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr tells you, that's up to you.
Well, as one who receives three thumbs down consistently, and is about to bat .500 I truly think the thumbs thing is another way to cowardly hide . I didn't thumb down all of those posts. I think some people would thumb me down if I said red is a primary color.
But onto care for the terminal--IT DOES MATTER. You can't be an expert til you have walked in those shoes.
If everything in the world makes you look over your shoulder, and everything is a conspiracy, and every thing is pronounced without any experience or knowledge, then you are probably paranoid. Your loved ones are more likely to be killed in a hospital.
Exactly!
couple that fear with a tendency to over estimate one's ability to see where someone is coming from and a few lucky coincidences and you end up with:
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Well, as one who receives three thumbs down consistently, and is about to bat .500 I truly think the thumbs thing is another way to cowardly hide . I didn't thumb down all of those posts. I think some people would thumb me down if I said red is a primary color.
Well, I think Marcelino and Andrew were doing most of the thumbing down, especially Andrew, who was trying to hijack the thread. But moving on...
But onto care for the terminal--IT DOES MATTER. You can't be an expert til you have walked in those shoes.
You don't have to be an expert to know the truth.
If everything in the world makes you look over your shoulder, and everything is a conspiracy, and every thing is pronounced without any experience or knowledge, then you are probably paranoid. Your loved ones are more likely to be killed in a hospital.
Nonsense, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr's existance is a FACT.
Yeah right, the guy who agrees with her is the one down thumbing her. :rolleyes:
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gee, i wonder how many sock puppets are here :rolleyes:
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[]
Exactly!
couple that fear with a tendency to over estimate one's ability to see where someone is coming from and a few lucky coincidences and you end up with:
[We seem to have a lot of folks who know what you think or mean here.
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You don't know the truth of caring for them and you don;t know the truth of caregiving..
I know the truth about Hospice, though. So does Matt Abbot.
I don't dispute NO--I dispute all of the conspiracy theories I read about here.
So in other words, you dispute the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.
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The Novus Ordo has the undercurrent of apostasy in it.
Whenever they say they're against something and it happens to agree with what Catholic teaching is, WATCH OUT. Odds are they subtly undermine Catholic teaching with their words while they flagrantly disregard it in their actions.
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Hospices are evil, anti-Catholic institutions where patients are secretly put to death against their wishes, and without their consent.
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Hospices are evil, anti-Catholic institutions where patients are secretly put to death against their wishes, and without their consent.
Hospice to me is a bunch of folks coming into my house to help me care for a loved one--for a few hours a day-- what are they to you
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gee, i wonder how many sock puppets are here :rolleyes:
Apparently, quite a few. :facepalm:
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[]
Exactly!
couple that fear with a tendency to over estimate one's ability to see where someone is coming from and a few lucky coincidences and you end up with:
[We seem to have a lot of folks who know what you think or mean here.
I know, they are amazing! :jester:
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Hospices are evil, anti-Catholic institutions where patients are secretly put to death against their wishes, and without their consent.
Hospice to me is a bunch of folks coming into my house to help me care for a loved one--for a few hours a day-- what are they to you
Hospices are state-funded executors of innocent people through euthanasia.
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I know, they are amazing! :jester:
You should join up with Raoul. I see you downrated the music man since you thought I was downrating you, when I was out for a walk. But I came back and decided to downrate all of your obnoxious posts.
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Things really are changing for the worst on CathInfo, if there is actually serious debate here about the morality of evil places like Hospices.
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I know, they are amazing! :jester:
You should join up with Raoul. I see you downrated the music man since you thought I was downrating you, when I was out for a walk. But I came back and decided to downrate all of your obnoxious posts.
Yeah, well if you're gonna troll me, then I'll do it right back to you buster.
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Things really are changing for the worst on CathInfo, if there is actually serious debate here about the morality of evil places like Hospices.
No there isn't, thanks to extremely polarizing comments like yours! You set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner! I think Thorn is kind of rude too, but geez, you want to condemn her and drive her away; YOU ARE TOO HARSH!!!!
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Things really are changing for the worst on CathInfo, if there is actually serious debate here about the morality of evil places like Hospices.
No there isn't, thanks to extremely polarizing comments like yours! You set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner! I think Thorn is kind of rude too, but geez, you want to condemn her and drive her away; YOU ARE TOO HARSH!!!!
And sadly, you aren't unique!
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I know, they are amazing! :jester:
You should join up with Raoul. I see you downrated the music man since you thought I was downrating you, when I was out for a walk. But I came back and decided to downrate all of your obnoxious posts.
Yeah, well if you're gonna troll me, then I'll do it right back to you buster.
what's with all the down thumbing; if you don't like my posts, talk about it reasonably. don't be such a sissy.
I wasn't following the thread at the time and was not responsible for those downrates. Thank you for alerting me to the presence of posts of yours that deserved additional downrating.
Well it seems my latest test PM went through. You sent me the "sissy" PM with no way to respond at the time.
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I know, they are amazing! :jester:
You should join up with Raoul. I see you downrated the music man since you thought I was downrating you, when I was out for a walk. But I came back and decided to downrate all of your obnoxious posts.
Yeah, well if you're gonna troll me, then I'll do it right back to you buster.
what's with all the down thumbing; if you don't like my posts, talk about it reasonably. don't be such a sissy.
Well it seems my latest test PM went through. You sent me the "sissy" PM with no way to respond at the time.
Yeah, and you wrote back:
"dumb"
How considerate of you to post people's private messages :rolleyes:
And as usual (lately) your contributions are so "charitable" :jester:
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I know, they are amazing! :jester:
You should join up with Raoul. I see you downrated the music man since you thought I was downrating you, when I was out for a walk. But I came back and decided to downrate all of your obnoxious posts.
Yeah, well if you're gonna troll me, then I'll do it right back to you buster.
what's with all the down thumbing; if you don't like my posts, talk about it reasonably. don't be such a sissy.
I wasn't following the thread at the time and was not responsible for those downrates. Thank you for alerting me to the presence of posts of yours that deserved additional downrating.
Well it seems my latest test PM went through. You sent me the "sissy" PM with no way to respond at the time.
He sent me the same PM.
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Might I suggest a neg-bombing campaign against Marcelino, until he starts to behave reasonably, arguing with tact and reason, and not making harassing PMs with rash accusations about being negged.
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Things really are changing for the worst on CathInfo, if there is actually serious debate here about the morality of evil places like Hospices.
No there isn't, thanks to extremely polarizing comments like yours! You set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner! I think Thorn is kind of rude too, but geez, you want to condemn her and drive her away; YOU ARE TOO HARSH!!!!
No, heresy and error of all sorts should be decried.
We live with enough 'free speech' in the everyday world and all that results in is the profanation or our Lord with 'art' like "piss christ" and the spread of all error, from Jehovah's Witnesses to Protestantism, to indifferentism to outright diabolism.
So, after getting a wheelbarrowfull of feminism on a daily basis and harpies like Thorn attacking those struggling for humility or piety, yes, we draw a line *here* because this is a *voluntary* association on the forum. If one doesn't like tradition, one can *leave*, so no, we don't have to 'hear out' every brand and label of nonsense. We can show such people the door.
'Free speech' and 'democratic' ideals are masonic error. Here it's tradition (I should just be able to call it 'Catholicism' without the modifying adjective, but alas...) or honest inquiry to Catholicism, or the highway. No subversive BS 'inquiries'. If one is honestly seeking/learning, fine. If they're pushing their dope, they can push it on the dopes at CAF.
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I know, they are amazing! :jester:
You should join up with Raoul. I see you downrated the music man since you thought I was downrating you, when I was out for a walk. But I came back and decided to downrate all of your obnoxious posts.
Yeah, well if you're gonna troll me, then I'll do it right back to you buster.
what's with all the down thumbing; if you don't like my posts, talk about it reasonably. don't be such a sissy.
I wasn't following the thread at the time and was not responsible for those downrates. Thank you for alerting me to the presence of posts of yours that deserved additional downrating.
Well it seems my latest test PM went through. You sent me the "sissy" PM with no way to respond at the time.
He sent me the same PM.
He sent me a similar PM as well.
Marcelino, you are being corrupted by bad people here.
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You guys (telesphosphrous, sede catholic, luvenalis, spiritus sanctus) are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
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You guys are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
Bah, I'm not picking on anyone.
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You guys are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
Bah, I'm not picking on anyone.
THAT IS A LIE! For you to do it, in this place, is a scandal. I'll pray for your soul, even though you don't deserve it.
:pray:
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No, heresy and error of all sorts should be decried.
We cannot show tolerance for pro-euthanasia groups and posters who intersperse statements that "Jews are still the chosen people" in between their prayer emoticons.
This is a Trad Catholic board, those things can't be tolerated here. And frankly, those who defend them should show some tact and recognize the sort of thing they're defending.
If you want to know why trad boards drift leftwards, it's because people get up in arms over someone spreading error being "picked on" - so gradually the liberalizers get entrenched.
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THAT IS A LIE! For you to do it, in this place, is a scandal. I'll pray for your soul,
No, I don't. I don't go after people here to pick on them. I go after to them to get rid of them, because they don't belong.
even though you don't deserve it.
:pray:
It is clownish to say such things.
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Marcelino, you have witnessed, as we all have here, the cruel bullying which has driven PW off of CathInfo.
To claim that these vile creatures who did that are somehow victims, is very wrong.
This very thread was started because of bullying against PW.
And that bullying was so sadistic that it was a scandal that has harmed this Forum.
I suggets that you protest against that.
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Marcelino, you have witnessed, as we all have here, the cruel bullying which has driven PW off of CathInfo.
To claim that these vile creatures who did that are somehow victims, is very wrong.
This very thread was started because of bullying against PW.
And that bullying was so sadistic that it was a scandal that has harmed this Forum.
I suggets that you protest against that.
Yeah, and you guys are bullies too! Are you going to judge yourself as harshly???? :heretic:
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I defended a weak, vulnerable, Catholic young lady who was being persecuted disgustingly.
That was not bullying.
It is a shame that more of the gentlemen here were not men enough to defend that young lady.
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No, heresy and error of all sorts should be decried.
We cannot show tolerance for pro-euthanasia groups and posters who intersperse statements that "Jews are still the chosen people" in between their prayer emoticons.
This is a Trad Catholic board, those things can't be tolerated here. And frankly, those who defend them should show some tact and recognize the sort of thing they're defending.
If you want to know why trad boards drift leftwards, it's because people get up in arms over someone spreading error being "picked on" - so gradually the liberalizers get entrenched.
No one has said they are pro-euthanasia and other than one quote that when taken in context and with his other posts, did not appear conclusive at all!
You're just on a cruel "witch hunt." You shouldn't hide behind Catholicism.
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I defended a weak, vulnerable, Catholic young lady who was being persecuted disgustingly.
That was not bullying.
It is a shame that more of the gentlemen here were not men enough to defend that young lady.
Plenty did! But you wouldn't let it go and you still won't! You go on and on. Don't tell me that's Chivalry! No, you're just looking for a whipping post. You should put it all on Christ instead. That's our sacrifice, not these poor people.
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No one has said they are pro-euthanasia
I never said anyone did. Which is why you get downrated Marcelino. For dumb posts. Hospice is pro-euthanasia. WE don't need the defense of pro-euthanasia groups, or the sick masonic Novus Ordo obsession with death and dying on this board.
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You guys (telesphosphrous, sede catholic, luvenalis, spiritus sanctus) are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
Listen, Marcelino, you PMed me about 5 or 6 times tonight complaining about me thumbing you down. The truth is, I did thumb you down, not only for those immature pictures but also because you, along with that pro-Menzingen poster Andrew, flung insults at me. You even seriously suggested that I chose my profile picture of Bishop Williamson to imply that I am a Bishop. Funny, considering Andrew had an avatar of Bishop Fellay yet you didn't say the same to him.
I chose my avatar of +Williamson to show my support for him. The treatment he has received from Bishop Fellay and his ilk is disgusting and he needs our support.
The bottom line is, I didn't do anything to you, Marcelino. You TICKED ME OFF with your smug insult towards me. It is you who was bullying me, and I detest bullying. Furthermore, anyone who posts on CatholicInfo is gauranteed to get thumbed down. We've all been thumbed down on this thread. It's not a big deal, please quit PMing people and whining about it. Maybe if you learned some manners and didn't fling insults at others you wouldn't be thumbed down so much.
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No one has said they are pro-euthanasia
I never said anyone did. Which is why you get downrated Marcelino. For dumb posts. Hospice is pro-euthanasia. WE don't need the defense of pro-euthanasia groups, or the sick masonic Novus Ordo obsession with death and dying on this board.
It's exactly what you said! You're saying it right now! All they said was, they thought hospice care was pretty good, because they had pretty good experiences with it and you conclude, they want to murder sick people!
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No one has said they are pro-euthanasia
I never said anyone did. Which is why you get downrated Marcelino. For dumb posts. Hospice is pro-euthanasia. WE don't need the defense of pro-euthanasia groups, or the sick masonic Novus Ordo obsession with death and dying on this board.
It's exactly what you said! You're saying it right now! All they said was, they thought hospice care was pretty good, because they had pretty good experiences with it and you conclude, they want to murder sick people!
They do want to murder old people. You obviously don't understand the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.
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You guys (telesphosphrous, sede catholic, luvenalis, spiritus sanctus) are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
Listen, Marcelino, you PMed me about 5 or 6 times tonight complaining about me thumbing you down. The truth is, I did thumb you down, not only for those immature pictures but also because you, along with that pro-Menzingen poster Andrew, flung insults at me. You even seriously suggested that I chose my profile picture of Bishop Williamson to imply that I am a Bishop. Funny, considering Andrew had an avatar of Bishop Fellay yet you didn't say the same to him.
I chose my avatar of +Williamson to show my support for him. The treatment he has received from Bishop Fellay and his ilk is disgusting and he needs our support.
The bottom line is, I didn't do anything to you, Marcelino. You TICKED ME OFF with your smug insult towards me. It is you who was bullying me, and I detest bullying. Furthermore, anyone who posts on CatholicInfo is gauranteed to get thumbed down. We've all been thumbed down on this thread. It's not a big deal, please quit PMing people and whining about it. Maybe if you learned some manners and didn't fling insults at others you wouldn't be thumbed down so much.
You're lying now, I sent you a couple of posts and I immediately deleted that post, when I saw it wasn't you, but you won't let it go, will you. No you won't, because you're out for blood. Well, that's a lousy example.
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It's exactly what you said! You're saying it right now! All they said was, they thought hospice care was pretty good, because they had pretty good experiences with it and you conclude, they want to murder sick people!
No, I didn't. You are misrepresenting the discussion. You have a problem with reasoning ability.
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No one has said they are pro-euthanasia
I never said anyone did. Which is why you get downrated Marcelino. For dumb posts. Hospice is pro-euthanasia. WE don't need the defense of pro-euthanasia groups, or the sick masonic Novus Ordo obsession with death and dying on this board.
It's exactly what you said! You're saying it right now! All they said was, they thought hospice care was pretty good, because they had pretty good experiences with it and you conclude, they want to murder sick people!
They do want to murder old people. You obviously don't understand the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.
Oh really, Myrna, Thorn and Lillian are part of "THE nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr" now?
I remember when you used to help S2rea and Wallflower bully Telesphosphorous.
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You guys (telesphosphrous, sede catholic, luvenalis, spiritus sanctus) are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
Listen, Marcelino, you PMed me about 5 or 6 times tonight complaining about me thumbing you down. The truth is, I did thumb you down, not only for those immature pictures but also because you, along with that pro-Menzingen poster Andrew, flung insults at me. You even seriously suggested that I chose my profile picture of Bishop Williamson to imply that I am a Bishop. Funny, considering Andrew had an avatar of Bishop Fellay yet you didn't say the same to him.
I chose my avatar of +Williamson to show my support for him. The treatment he has received from Bishop Fellay and his ilk is disgusting and he needs our support.
The bottom line is, I didn't do anything to you, Marcelino. You TICKED ME OFF with your smug insult towards me. It is you who was bullying me, and I detest bullying. Furthermore, anyone who posts on CatholicInfo is gauranteed to get thumbed down. We've all been thumbed down on this thread. It's not a big deal, please quit PMing people and whining about it. Maybe if you learned some manners and didn't fling insults at others you wouldn't be thumbed down so much.
You're lying now, I sent you a couple of posts and I immediately deleted that post, when I saw it wasn't you, but you won't let it go, will you. No you won't, because you're out for blood. Well, that's a lousy example.
No, I just went and counted them, and you sent me 5 PMs tonight. I'm not lying. It's you who won't let go.
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It's exactly what you said! You're saying it right now! All they said was, they thought hospice care was pretty good, because they had pretty good experiences with it and you conclude, they want to murder sick people!
No, I didn't. You are misrepresenting the discussion. You have a problem with reasoning ability.
That appears to be what you said. Of course, I can't read your mind. Still, I'm not sure I have to, since you don't seem honest to me lately. That's sad, because you have in the past.
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Oh really, Myrna, Thorn and Lillian are part of "THE nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr" now?
This is absurd and, of course, I never said it.
I remember when you used to help S2rea and Wallflower bully Telesphosphorous.
First of all, I retracted my past criticisms of Tele long ago. But that has nothing to do with this thread. And I never teamed up with wallflower, that is not an accurate statement. In fact, I didn't even team up with s2s.
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You guys (telesphosphrous, sede catholic, luvenalis, spiritus sanctus) are too much. You don't have any right to judge people the way you do. You're just a gang of bullies, who like to pick on people, while you hide behind self-righteous bologna.
IT'S A SCANDAL AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT ACTUALLY APPEARS TO BE INTENTIONAL, PERHAPS WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE (hopefully not) AND CERTAINLY CONSENT.
Listen, Marcelino, you PMed me about 5 or 6 times tonight complaining about me thumbing you down. The truth is, I did thumb you down, not only for those immature pictures but also because you, along with that pro-Menzingen poster Andrew, flung insults at me. You even seriously suggested that I chose my profile picture of Bishop Williamson to imply that I am a Bishop. Funny, considering Andrew had an avatar of Bishop Fellay yet you didn't say the same to him.
I chose my avatar of +Williamson to show my support for him. The treatment he has received from Bishop Fellay and his ilk is disgusting and he needs our support.
The bottom line is, I didn't do anything to you, Marcelino. You TICKED ME OFF with your smug insult towards me. It is you who was bullying me, and I detest bullying. Furthermore, anyone who posts on CatholicInfo is gauranteed to get thumbed down. We've all been thumbed down on this thread. It's not a big deal, please quit PMing people and whining about it. Maybe if you learned some manners and didn't fling insults at others you wouldn't be thumbed down so much.
You're lying now, I sent you a couple of posts and I immediately deleted that post, when I saw it wasn't you, but you won't let it go, will you. No you won't, because you're out for blood. Well, that's a lousy example.
No, I just went and counted them, and you sent me 5 PMs tonight. I'm not lying. It's you who won't let go.
O.k., and they were part of the same conversation, that you answered. So what!
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Oh really, Myrna, Thorn and Lillian are part of "THE nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr" now?
This is absurd and, of course, I never said it.
I remember when you used to help S2rea and Wallflower bully Telesphosphorous.
First of all, I retracted my past criticisms of Tele long ago. But that has nothing to do with this thread. And I never teamed up with wallflower, that is not an accurate statement.
Oh really, you're bullying now! How is that not the same thing!
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You need to grow up, Marcelino.
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You need to grow up, Marcelino.
I'm not the one who's setting a bad example, by picking on others. You, Telesphosphorous, Sede Catholic and Luvenalis are doing that lately. I'll pray for you, even though you don't deserve it. :incense:
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Please do, and you'll have my prayers as well.
I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, you can't argue without displaying either immaturity or lack of charity (or both).
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Please do, and you'll have my prayers as well.
I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, you can't argue without displaying either immaturity or lack of charity (or both).
I'm not the one who's setting a bad example, by picking on others. You, Telesphosphorous, Sede Catholic and Luvenalis are doing that lately. I'll pray for you, even though you don't deserve it.
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Please do, and you'll have my prayers as well.
I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, you can't argue without displaying either immaturity or lack of charity (or both).
I'm not the one who's setting a bad example, by picking on others. You, Telesphosphorous, Sede Catholic and Luvenalis are doing that lately. I'll pray for you, even though you don't deserve it.
Ridiculous. Your sensus is unformed.
All this talk of 'judging': Am I not my brother's keeper??
It's not bullying, it's accountability.
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Does hospice mean taking care of the sick elderly at home?
Most Catholic thing we ever did.
Loriann I hope you understand this is an exeedingly small sample size of traditional Catholics. It would be better to find a parish and meet some families in real life.
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Does hospice mean taking care of the sick elderly at home?
Most Catholic thing we ever did.
Loriann I hope you understand this is an exeedingly small sample size of traditional Catholics. It would be better to find a parish and meet some families in real life.
Very good advice Wallflower. I think I understand why the "world view" of Traditional Catholics varies wildly.
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If we look at the people who are advocating Hospice:
Thorn thinks Fatima is of the devil, Loriann is an admitted Novus Ordite, and Marcelino is a troll with 5 ignores. The facts speak for themselves.
So according to Thorn, Fatima is of the devil, but Hospice is of God. Yeah, and I'm Pope Pius XII...
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Does hospice mean taking care of the sick elderly at home?
Is hospice a group that is permeated by pro-euthanasia thinking?
Most Catholic thing we ever did.
Didn't the Church establish hospitals? I didn't know "dying at home" was so profoundly Catholic. I mean I've had relatives die at the hospital, although some very misguided relatives wanted to drag them home within a few days of their death, even though my relative probably would have died on the car trip home.
Loriann I hope you understand this is an exeedingly small sample size of traditional Catholics. It would be better to find a parish and meet some families in real life.
You mean, being predisposed to liberal thinking, you can't understand the objections to hospice being raised here.
If you’re like 10 percent of Americans, you find a hospice to take him in. Since hospice care is covered by Medicare, you know the financial burdens of his final weeks will be eased—and you can rest comfortably in knowing that the hospice staff will do all it can to ease your loved one’s pain while allowing nature to take its course.
It’s a peaceful thing to think about. Or is it?
Ron Panzer, president of the pro-life Hospice Patients Alliance (HPA), says there’s a hidden threat inside the hospice industry that’s been growing like a cancer for decades—and most people don’t realize it until it’s too late:
Hospice workers all over the country are routinely killing patients.
"Families who report in to HPA tell us they’ve overheard nurses say things like, ‘I’m just like Jack Kevorkian, only I do it with morphine,’ " Panzer, whose organization receives thousands of calls like that a year, told LifeNews.com. "And they get away with it week after week after week, because ‘it’s hospice!’
You know, it's always depressing to think that wallflower is actually one of the more conservative "younger" trad women. I think I understand why she keeps coming back to sites like this. It's because young trad women are intellectually unmoored, rudderless in this culture, and it's only by being constantly, harshly corrected that she can maintain her Catholic sense.
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Oh, and yes, add wallflower to the list of hospice defenders. She is a feminist.
Again, the ones defending Hospice aren't credible on the issue.
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Oh, and yes, add wallflower to the list of hospice defenders. She is a feminist.
Again, the ones defending Hospice aren't credible on the issue.
"But SS, they're such nice people! I mean, sure, some of them are pro-euthanasia, but . . .
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If we look at the people who are advocating Hospice:
Thorn thinks Fatima is of the devil, Loriann is an admitted Novus Ordite, and Marcelino is a troll with 5 ignores. The facts speak for themselves.
So according to Thorn, Fatima is of the devil, but Hospice is of God. Yeah, and I'm Pope Pius XII...
I attend a non-"TRAD" Roman catholic church devoutly, adoration as well, and am part of the world. If that makes me a leper then so be it. Frankly I think a lot of the fellows here are going to be surprised when they face judgement and the Lord asks what did you do to the least of my brother and the answer is--called churchgoing people unholy, called them viscious names, picked apart women and allowed it as long as they weren't TRAD women, and judged to the high heavens whilst profaning his creations who weren't white males.
I also see a lack of even going to church among many, a lack of contributing to society or the unfortunate, and a propensity to not even be able to support your families--now there are some admirable qualities... if this is the hope of the church I throw in the towel. I will pray for you.
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Most Catholic women seem to be a few small steps away from accepting worldly thinking on just about any social issue. Especially if under influence from their "nice" "friends."
I'm blessed to have my mother.
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.. if this is the hope of the church I throw in the towel. I will pray for you.
If you don't understand the objections to hospice here, then you have a problem understanding your Faith.
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Oh, and yes, add wallflower to the list of hospice defenders. She is a feminist.
Again, the ones defending Hospice aren't credible on the issue.
"But SS, they're such nice people! I mean, sure, some of them are pro-euthanasia, but . . .
Not one of us was pro euthenasia--you are just applying your typical world narrative (lies actually) along with your self-proclaimed ability to know what all think.
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.. if this is the hope of the church I throw in the towel. I will pray for you.
If you don't understand the objections to hospice here, then you have a problem understanding your Faith.
You can't get beyond your view of hospice even though many are telling you FROM EXPERIENCE what it is and is not. You know all and everything fits in only one mould in your view.
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Does hospice mean taking care of the sick elderly at home?
Is hospice a group that is permeated by pro-euthanasia thinking?
Most Catholic thing we ever did.
Didn't the Church establish hospitals? I didn't know "dying at home" was so profoundly Catholic. I mean I've had relatives die at the hospital, although some very misguided relatives wanted to drag them home within a few days of their death, even though my relative probably would have died on the car trip home.
Loriann I hope you understand this is an exeedingly small sample size of traditional Catholics. It would be better to find a parish and meet some families in real life.
You mean, being predisposed to liberal thinking, you can't understand the objections to hospice being raised here.
If you’re like 10 percent of Americans, you find a hospice to take him in. Since hospice care is covered by Medicare, you know the financial burdens of his final weeks will be eased—and you can rest comfortably in knowing that the hospice staff will do all it can to ease your loved one’s pain while allowing nature to take its course.
It’s a peaceful thing to think about. Or is it?
Ron Panzer, president of the pro-life Hospice Patients Alliance (HPA), says there’s a hidden threat inside the hospice industry that’s been growing like a cancer for decades—and most people don’t realize it until it’s too late:
Hospice workers all over the country are routinely killing patients.
"Families who report in to HPA tell us they’ve overheard nurses say things like, ‘I’m just like Jack Kevorkian, only I do it with morphine,’ " Panzer, whose organization receives thousands of calls like that a year, told LifeNews.com. "And they get away with it week after week after week, because ‘it’s hospice!’
You know, it's always depressing to think that wallflower is actually one of the more conservative "younger" trad women. I think I understand why she keeps coming back to sites like this. It's because young trad women are intellectually unmoored, rudderless in this culture, and it's only by being constantly, harshly corrected that she can maintain her Catholic sense.
Or perhaps, on judgement day you will find yourself in the company of pharisees and saducees and find that the Christ thinks differently. I guess we'll al find out then.
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You can't get beyond your view of hospice even though many are telling you FROM EXPERIENCE what it is and is not.
Oh you mean they're awfully nice people who help care for dying old people. . . .until they commit euthanasia.
But they're so NICE. How can we be so mean!
You know all and everything fits in only one mould in your view.
I've heard the morbid, death obsessed talk of the people in these groups and I'm absolutely disgusted their propaganda makes inroads among women who are supposed to be Catholics.
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Most Catholic women seem to be a few small steps away from accepting worldly thinking on just about any social issue. Especially if under influence from their "nice" "friends."
I'm blessed to have my mother.
Yes, compassion for they dying is so nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, you can't find any examples of that in scripture, lol
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Not one of us was pro euthenasia--you are just applying your typical world narrative (lies actually) along with your self-proclaimed ability to know what all think.
Loriann, unfortunately you're an unintelligent woman, who thinks I said you supported euthanasia. Which may be the reason you think it's okay to support a group that is full of pro-euthanasia people, and going around committing euthanasia.
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Or perhaps, on judgement day you will find yourself in the company of pharisees and saducees and find that the Christ thinks differently. I guess we'll al find out then.
We already know what the religion teaches about euthanasia and pro-euthanasia groups.
Too bad milk, cookies and morphine for old people will turn an old hag's head.
The devil has never had it so easy.
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Not one of us was pro euthenasia--you are just applying your typical world narrative (lies actually) along with your self-proclaimed ability to know what all think.
Loriann, unfortunately you're an unintelligent woman, who thinks I said you supported euthanasia. Which may be the reason you think it's okay to support a group that is full of pro-euthanasia people, and going around committing euthanasia.
I guess I am unintelligent--I can't make sense of what this says vs what you said earlier
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Or perhaps, on judgement day you will find yourself in the company of pharisees and saducees and find that the Christ thinks differently. I guess we'll al find out then.
We already know what the religion teaches about euthanasia and pro-euthanasia groups.
Too bad milk, cookies and morphine for old people will turn an old hag's head.
The devil has never had it so easy.
See, there is your narrative spinning a lie again. Calling me an old hag is very intelligent of you.
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I guess I am unintelligent--I can't make sense of what this says vs what you said earlier
Either you're unintelligent or you're dishonest.
I never said you're pro-euthanasia. I don't think we can tolerate liberal Catholics posting here, especially liberal Catholic women, because they are fundamentally lacking in reasoning skills and do not accept correction.
We've seen you put St. Paul in opposition to Our Lord, as though St. Paul's writings were not divinely inspired.
You're a danger to this site, and now you're misrepresenting the positions of those who warn against groups like hospice where a pro-euthanasia mentality is in control.
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I guess I am unintelligent--I can't make sense of what this says vs what you said earlier
Either you're unintelligent or you're dishonest.
I never said you're pro-euthanasia. I don't think we can tolerate liberal Catholics posting here, especially liberal Catholic women, because they are fundamentally lacking in reasoning skills and do not accept correction.
We've seen you put St. Paul in opposition to Our Lord, as though St. Paul's writings were not divinely inspired.
You're a danger to this site, and now you're misrepresenting the positions of those who are against groups like hospice where a pro-euthanasia mentality is in control.
Please find one quote where I said thatabout Paul, not where another said it about me.
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See, there is your narrative spinning a lie again. Calling me an old hag is very intelligent of you.
It's important for Catholics to recognize female malevolence. In particular whenever you find death obsessed women talking about hospice and how wonderful it is, Catholics need to be alert. Catholics are influenced by modern culture where they are afraid to call out feminine evil when they see it.
Hospice euthanizes people. But they do it with milk and cookies so don't be MEAN, or God will send you to HELL.
This is Novus Ordo depravity.
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You can't get beyond your view of hospice even though many are telling you FROM EXPERIENCE what it is and is not.
Oh you mean they're awfully nice people who help care for dying old people. . . .until they commit euthanasia.
But they're so NICE. How can we be so mean!
You know all and everything fits in only one mould in your view.
I've heard the morbid, death obsessed talk of the people in these groups and I'm absolutely disgusted their propaganda makes inroads among women who are supposed to be Catholics.
Dying people typically are obsessed with death. You know my Aunt died a week ago, stage 4 ovarian cancer, and she wanted to talk about dying and what she wanted done and what she was proud of and where she had regrets. She still prayed for a miracle to the last day but it is part of dying. I pray you never have to watch your mother die inch by inch--it mught change your perspective.
AND I NEVER WOULD ALLOW ANYTHING TO HASTEN DEATH AS IT IS GOD"S CALL, NOT MAN"S
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I guess I am unintelligent--I can't make sense of what this says vs what you said earlier
Either you're unintelligent or you're dishonest.
I never said you're pro-euthanasia. I don't think we can tolerate liberal Catholics posting here, especially liberal Catholic women, because they are fundamentally lacking in reasoning skills and do not accept correction.
We've seen you put St. Paul in opposition to Our Lord, as though St. Paul's writings were not divinely inspired.
You're a danger to this site, and now you're misrepresenting the positions of those who are against groups like hospice where a pro-euthanasia mentality is in control.
Please find one quote where I said thatabout Paul, not where another said it about me.
Another lie to fit your narrative.
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Dying people typically are obsessed with death. You know my Aunt died a week ago, stage 4 ovarian cancer, and she wanted to talk about dying and what she wanted done and what she was proud of and where she had regrets. She still prayed for a miracle to the last day but it is part of dying. I pray you never have to watch your mother die inch by inch--it mught change your perspective.
Loriann, this is a typical ploy that you're using here.
These people who defend pro-euthanasia groups like hospice rely on sentimentality and guilt-tripping in order to make critics feel bad about pointing out what they're up to.
AND I NEVER WOULD ALLOW ANYTHING TO HASTEN DEATH AS IT IS GOD"S CALL, NOT MAN"S
I'm very glad you think that way, but unfortunately, you don't realize that in supporting groups like hospice you're fundamentally undercutting your position.
This is a serious problem in the Novus Ordo generally.
You have groups who claim to be pro-life but support Campaign for Human Development. It's very important for Catholics to understand that their enemies often use an indirect approach
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Another lie to fit your narrative.
No, it's not a lie Loriann. I read what you wrote, and I have a decent memory. You've taken classes in modern "Catholic" institutions - which go against Catholic teaching.
You accuse me of saying you're pro-euthanasia, now you say I lied about what you said about St. Paul. Those are both false statements.
You have a problem, it's the problem of being a Novus Ordo woman who is not capable of reasoning or of taking correction.
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This is a traditional Catholic forum. Not a Novus Ordo forum. Not a modernist theology forum. Not a pro-hospice (a group full of euthanasia practictioners) forum.
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Another lie to fit your narrative.
No, it's not a lie Loriann. I read what you wrote.
You accuse me of saying you're pro-euthanasia, now you say I lied about what you said about St. Paul.
You have a problem, it's the problem of being a Novus Ordo woman who is not capable of reasoning or of taking correction.
Show me the proof where I said that about Paul--you cannot because it was a frenzy whipped up by a male poster who said that. You are lying if you say that.
If you did not intend to call me pro euthenasia then I will stand corrected though I think it was a direct implication when you said all who support hospice are (and I was defending the hospice experience we had).
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Show me the proof where I said that about Paul--you cannot because it was a frenzy whipped up by a male poster who said that. You are lying if you say that.
Why are you denying what you said about St. Paul's teachings on women?
If you did not intend to call me pro euthenasia then I will stand corrected though I think it was a direct implication when you said all who support hospice are (and I was defending the hospice experience we had).
I don't think you're pro-euthanasia. Unfortunately, like most Novus Ordo people, you unwittingly support groups (like hospice) that are diametrically opposed to what you're supposed to believe.
It's the contradiction of being in the Novus Ordo. The Novus Ordo is fundamentally liberal.
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I attend a non-"TRAD" Roman catholic church devoutly, adoration as well, and am part of the world.
The Novus Ordo isn't Catholic. And a Traditional priest would tell you to separate yourself from the modern world.
I also see a lack of even going to church among many
Well, I'm certainly not going to attend the Bogus Ordo. If that's all one has access to, they shouldn't attend it. They should stay home and make a Spiritual Communion.
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.. if this is the hope of the church I throw in the towel. I will pray for you.
If you don't understand the objections to hospice here, then you have a problem understanding your Faith.
You can't get beyond your view of hospice even though many are telling you FROM EXPERIENCE what it is and is not. You know all and everything fits in only one mould in your view.
The problem, Loriann, is that Hospice lied to your face and you don't realize it. You admittedly don't believe in the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, so I wouldn't expect you to understand why Hospice is evil.
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Most Catholic women seem to be a few small steps away from accepting worldly thinking on just about any social issue. Especially if under influence from their "nice" "friends."
I'm blessed to have my mother.
Yes, compassion for they dying is so nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, you can't find any examples of that in scripture, lol
You don't get it. The nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr doesn't have compassion for the dying, they want to kill them off to reduce the world's population. The nurses who work there are often Protestants with poor understanding of theology and morality, who are told by those in chagre of Hospice that they're "doing the old people a favor" by shortening their life.
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Another lie to fit your narrative.
No, it's not a lie Loriann. I read what you wrote.
You accuse me of saying you're pro-euthanasia, now you say I lied about what you said about St. Paul.
You have a problem, it's the problem of being a Novus Ordo woman who is not capable of reasoning or of taking correction.
Show me the proof where I said that about Paul--you cannot because it was a frenzy whipped up by a male poster who said that. You are lying if you say that.
If you did not intend to call me pro euthenasia then I will stand corrected though I think it was a direct implication when you said all who support hospice are (and I was defending the hospice experience we had).
You did say it, Loriann:
I have advanced degrees in church history and biblical translation. I read much of what the norm was with Jesus, his family, and his day. I think many would be surprised at his ways, vs those of Paul, the one most people quote about the church of Christ.
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If Telesphosphorous and Spiritus Sanctus have this big of a problem with so many people here why do they come here? Just to cause trouble? That's how it looks.
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I have friends on this forum as well, Marcelino. You're the one who seems to enjoy getting a reaction out of people.
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If Telesphosphorous and Spiritus Sanctus have this big of a problem with so many people here why do they come here? Just to cause trouble? That's how it looks.
:confused1:
They're two of the best members here. I never see them promoting error.
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Thanks, guitarplucker. I appreciate that.
God Bless.
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If Telesphosphorous and Spiritus Sanctus have this big of a problem with so many people here why do they come here? Just to cause trouble? That's how it looks.
:confused1:
They're two of the best members here. I never see them promoting error.
There's such a thing as civility and good manners too! Have you read this thread?
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I have friends on this forum as well, Marcelino. You're the one who seems to enjoy getting a reaction out of people.
You mean a clique that goes around picking on anybody who doesn't agree with it!
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There's such a thing as civility and good manners too! Have you read this thread?
Yeah, and you need to get some. Good day.
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There's such a thing as civility and good manners too! Have you read this thread?
Yeah, and you need to get some. Good day.
Excuse me?
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Another lie to fit your narrative.
No, it's not a lie Loriann. I read what you wrote.
You accuse me of saying you're pro-euthanasia, now you say I lied about what you said about St. Paul.
You have a problem, it's the problem of being a Novus Ordo woman who is not capable of reasoning or of taking correction.
Show me the proof where I said that about Paul--you cannot because it was a frenzy whipped up by a male poster who said that. You are lying if you say that.
If you did not intend to call me pro euthenasia then I will stand corrected though I think it was a direct implication when you said all who support hospice are (and I was defending the hospice experience we had).
You did say it, Loriann:
I have advanced degrees in church history and biblical translation. I read much of what the norm was with Jesus, his family, and his day. I think many would be surprised at his ways, vs those of Paul, the one most people quote about the church of Christ.
How is that heretical?? To say Jesus's style was different than Paul? That is like saying St Augustine and St Jerome were different.. Good grief...that is not heresy. The problem you have with it is the schooling part, admit it. They are all of God and promote God's will, but they were not the same in how they taught or spoke or anything...but again your agenda (once I mentioned Paul, because some modernists do not like Paul--NOT ME)) your agenda applied to me right away. Your narrative.
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save your clique??
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DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
It's basically the same thing, Loriann. I'm not twisting words here.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
I shun the act of women promoting degrees.
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
You're so dishonest. You associating The Bishop's image, with your lies is a scandal.
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DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
It's basically the same thing, Loriann. I'm not twisting words here.
You are incorrect. It just fits your way to twist me into something I am not. ]
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
I shun the act of women promoting degrees.
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Another lie to fit your narrative.
No, it's not a lie Loriann. I read what you wrote.
You accuse me of saying you're pro-euthanasia, now you say I lied about what you said about St. Paul.
You have a problem, it's the problem of being a Novus Ordo woman who is not capable of reasoning or of taking correction.
Show me the proof where I said that about Paul--you cannot because it was a frenzy whipped up by a male poster who said that. You are lying if you say that.
If you did not intend to call me pro euthenasia then I will stand corrected though I think it was a direct implication when you said all who support hospice are (and I was defending the hospice experience we had).
You did say it, Loriann:
I have advanced degrees in church history and biblical translation. I read much of what the norm was with Jesus, his family, and his day. I think many would be surprised at his ways, vs those of Paul, the one most people quote about the church of Christ.
How is that heretical?? To say Jesus's style was different than Paul? That is like saying St Augustine and St Jerome were different.. Good grief...that is not heresy. The problem you have with it is the schooling part, admit it. They are all of God and promote God's will, but they were not the same in how they taught or spoke or anything...but again your agenda (once I mentioned Paul, because some modernists do not like Paul--NOT ME)) your agenda applied to me right away. Your narrative.
You're absolutely right. This guy wouldn't give it a second thought, if he didn't have it in for you.
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save your clique??[/quote]
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Still hoping for an answer...
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled, or raised in the modern world.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save yourself?
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
You're so dishonest. You associating The Bishop's image, with your lies is a scandal.
I think it's a scandal that someone is persecuted for telling the truth about Hospice.
But you're entitled to your opinion about me.
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save your clique??[/quote]
This guy isn't talking for anybody! Most priests would laugh at his nonsense! So would Bishop Williamson i bet!!!!
You had an education, you told people about it, because it was relevant to your post. So, he disagrees with something (although it's hard to tell what he actually disagrees with!), but he's got no good point to make, so he just desperately tries to attack your credibility. Honestly, he just seems angry with you for daring to stand up to him.
How dare you! :jester:
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
You're so dishonest. You associating The Bishop's image, with your lies is a scandal.
I think it's a scandal that someone is persecuted for telling the truth about Hospice.
But you're entitled to your opinion about me.
You aren't telling the truth about hospice; you're overgeneralizing.
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Yes, I do have a problem with the schooling part because it's troubling when women promote the idea of having degrees. It's feministic, actually. And Matthew, Graham, and Tele rightfully pointed that out after you initially made that post on the "Modesty around the home" thread.
Back to the comment about St. Paul, it's wrong to say that his ways were not of Christ's. It is indeed heretical. Basically a cheap shot at a Saint and Apostle.
You're so dishonest. You associating The Bishop's image, with your lies is a scandal.
I think it's a scandal that someone is persecuted for telling the truth about Hospice.
But you're entitled to your opinion about me.
You aren't telling the truth about hospice; you're overgeneralizing.
You may as well say, good catholics shouldn't ever use hospitals, because some of them engage in euthanasia!
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Still hoping for an answer...
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled, or raised in the modern world.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save yourself?
Loriann,
I started a thread asking about educated women around a week ago. That is my personal situation. I have an MDiv degree from before I became involved in traditional Catholicism. Nobody said I should be shunned or rejected. Many of the responses were suggestions on how to use my education for good.
If you are going to tell people here that it is a good idea for women to get degrees in theology, expect them to argue with you. However, if you are not defending it, but just saying it is something in your past, few would reject you.
Here is the other thread on women and education (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Women-and-higher-education)
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No, Bishop Williamson wouldn't laugh at what I wrote, because I have read where he is completely against women going to universities. If you don't believe me, email him and ask him. You'll be surprised.
It's remarkable that this all began when all I did was try to caution Myrna against the dangers of Hospice.
I wasn't even going to say anything at first, but I wasn't aware of the circuмstances. So I was afraid of the guilt I might feel if I didn't speak up and something happened to Myrna's husband and mother as a result. I knew in advance that I was going to receive some opposition for what I posted, but this is beyond what I originally imagined would happen. I did what I did out of concern for the truth and the lives of others, and I don't regret what I posted. Marcelino, Loriann, and anyone else here are free to label me anything they wish. I simply don't care. I know I did the right thing, even though it came at a price.
I know when it's time to leave an argument. When I have to become something I'm not just to defend myself against insults from others, it's time to bow out. This has wasted enough of my time anyway.
God Bless.
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Still hoping for an answer...
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled, or raised in the modern world.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save yourself?
Loriann,
I started a thread asking about educated women around a week ago. That is my personal situation. I have an MDiv degree from before I became involved in traditional Catholicism. Nobody said I should be shunned or rejected. Many of the responses were suggestions on how to use my education for good.
If you are going to tell people here that it is a good idea for women to get degrees in theology, expect them to argue with you. However, if you are not defending it, but just saying it is something in your past, few would reject you.
Here is the other thread on women and education (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Women-and-higher-education)
Apparently, some will either way!
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No, Bishop Williamson wouldn't laugh at what I wrote, because I have read where he is completely against women going to universities. If you don't believe me, email him and ask him. You'll be surprised.
It's remarkable that this all began when all I did was try to caution Myrna against the dangers of Hospice.
I wasn't even going to say anything at first, but I wasn't aware of the circuмstances. So I was afraid of the guilt I might feel if I didn't speak up and something happened to Myrna's husband and mother as a result. I knew in advance that I was going to receive some opposition for what I posted, but this is beyond what I originally imagined would happen. I did what I did out of concern for the truth and the lives of others, and I don't regret what I posted. Marcelino, Loriann, and anyone else here are free to label me anything they wish. I simply don't care. I know I did the right thing, even though it came at a price.
I know when it's time to leave an argument. When I have to become something I'm not just to defend myself against insults from others, it's time to bow out. This has wasted enough of my time anyway.
God Bless.
I bet that is The Bishop's position, but I still think he would laugh at you!
You had plenty of opportunity to express your opinion civilly, but you haven't. Instead, you've been very rude to several members on this forum.
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Still hoping for an answer...
So here's the question of the day--
You say TRAD is the true church
Trad Rejects women who have been schooled, or raised in the modern world.
Does that mean that all women are thereby shunned after being raised incorrectly? Because I fail to see how you can restore the church with that attitude--kind of reminds me of the early church debating whether Christ came for Jews or gentiles or both...
How will you save the church and world--or are you just out to save yourself?
Loriann,
I started a thread asking about educated women around a week ago. That is my personal situation. I have an MDiv degree from before I became involved in traditional Catholicism. Nobody said I should be shunned or rejected. Many of the responses were suggestions on how to use my education for good.
If you are going to tell people here that it is a good idea for women to get degrees in theology, expect them to argue with you. However, if you are not defending it, but just saying it is something in your past, few would reject you.
Here is the other thread on women and education (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Women-and-higher-education)
Thanks, Jaynek, for the information. I did not want to hide or lie about what I am, but I did not promote anything for others.
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Loriann,
I started a thread asking about educated women around a week ago. That is my personal situation. I have an MDiv degree from before I became involved in traditional Catholicism. Nobody said I should be shunned or rejected. Many of the responses were suggestions on how to use my education for good.
If you are going to tell people here that it is a good idea for women to get degrees in theology, expect them to argue with you. However, if you are not defending it, but just saying it is something in your past, few would reject you.
Here is the other thread on women and education (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Women-and-higher-education)
Thanks, Jaynek, for the information. I did not want to hide or lie about what I am, but I did not promote anything for others.
You might not have meant to promote anything, but I suspect it comes across as if you do. For example, I took that Jesus/Paul comment the way that some others here have described. It sounded like you were taking that position that pits the two against each other and tries to trump Scripture from St. Paul with that from Our Lord. I'm sure you have come across people who do this.
Once we have encountered this position, we expect to find it again. Your comment sounded enough like it that I was ready to believe that this is what you were saying. So I can understand why you got the reaction you did. It is a seriously wrong position and I was considering writing myself to condemn it. I'm glad that it is not what you really think.
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I have advanced degrees in church history and biblical translation. I read much of what the norm was with Jesus, his family, and his day. I think many would be surprised at his ways, vs those of Paul, the one most people quote about the church of Christ.
DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
You said his ways were different.
You said we would be surprised by the differences.
You said versus, a word that denotes opposition.
You prefaced this by announcing you'd gleaned it from extra-biblical historical sources, studied, presumeably, in some modernist institution.
You capped it off with a vaguely deprecating remark about "Paul, the one most people quote."
Loriann, the fact is I read it more carefully than you wrote it.
Now, if your desire to save face means you won't admit you misspoke, then fine, I can live with that, I can even live with your aggressive self-defense, just so long as you're clear about the fact that there is no important difference between the ways of St. Paul and those of Christ. What St. Paul teaches is what God teaches. Are you clear about that?
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Loriann,
You seem to be running into difficulties, so I hope you won't mind me giving some advice. Feminism has had a very powerful and destructive influence on our society. Because we are so immersed in it, we are often unaware of it. A forum like this is one of the few places you will find large numbers of people who are alert to the evil of feminism. This makes it different enough from what you are used to that you are probably experiencing a sort of culture shock.
I find it is helpful to examine myself carefully for any feminist assumptions that may be influencing me. I also make an extra effort to speak respectfully to men and to be understanding of their perspective. Perhaps this would be helpful for you too.
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I have advanced degrees in church history and biblical translation. I read much of what the norm was with Jesus, his family, and his day. I think many would be surprised at his ways, vs those of Paul, the one most people quote about the church of Christ.
DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
You said his ways were different.
You said we would be surprised by the differences.
You said versus, a word that denotes opposition.
You prefaced this by announcing you'd gleaned it from extra-biblical historical sources, studied, presumeably, in some modernist institution.
You capped it off with a vaguely deprecating remark about "Paul, the one most people quote."
Loriann, the fact is I read it more carefully than you wrote it.
Now, if your desire to save face means you won't admit you misspoke, then fine, I can live with that, I can even live with your aggressive self-defense, just so long as you're clear about the fact that there is no important difference between the ways of St. Paul and those of Christ. What St. Paul teaches is what God teaches. Are you clear about that?
I thought she already was. Hasn't she been humiliated enough in this thread.
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Loriann,
You seem to be running into difficulties, so I hope you won't mind me giving some advice. Feminism has had a very powerful and destructive influence on our society. Because we are so immersed in it, we are often unaware of it. A forum like this is one of the few places you will find large numbers of people who are alert to the evil of feminism. This makes it different enough from what you are used to that you are probably experiencing a sort of culture shock.
I find it is helpful to examine myself carefully for any feminist assumptions that may be influencing me. I also make an extra effort to speak respectfully to men and to be understanding of their perspective. Perhaps this would be helpful for you too.
The men here have a duty to be respectful too. They have been very disrespectful to Lorainn and I think she's tried to be patient with them.
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I have advanced degrees in church history and biblical translation. I read much of what the norm was with Jesus, his family, and his day. I think many would be surprised at his ways, vs those of Paul, the one most people quote about the church of Christ.
DO YOU READ?? I did not say his ways were not OF CHRIST--I said his style was different--to twist words is very very disingenuous.
You said his ways were different.
You said we would be surprised by the differences.
You said versus, a word that denotes opposition.
You prefaced this by announcing you'd gleaned it from extra-biblical historical sources, studied, presumeably, in some modernist institution.
You capped it off with a vaguely deprecating remark about "Paul, the one most people quote."
Loriann, the fact is I read it more carefully than you wrote it.
Now, if your desire to save face means you won't admit you misspoke, then fine, I can live with that, I can even live with your aggressive self-defense, just so long as you're clear about the fact that there is no important difference between the ways of St. Paul and those of Christ. What St. Paul teaches is what God teaches. Are you clear about that?
Never had a doubt about it, Graham. St Paul teaches what God teaches==we build the majority of the liturgy of the word on his writings.
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Hasn't she been humiliated enough in this thread.
Being corrected is not the same as being humiliated.
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Thank you Loriann. :cheers:
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Loriann,
You seem to be running into difficulties, so I hope you won't mind me giving some advice. Feminism has had a very powerful and destructive influence on our society. Because we are so immersed in it, we are often unaware of it. A forum like this is one of the few places you will find large numbers of people who are alert to the evil of feminism. This makes it different enough from what you are used to that you are probably experiencing a sort of culture shock.
I find it is helpful to examine myself carefully for any feminist assumptions that may be influencing me. I also make an extra effort to speak respectfully to men and to be understanding of their perspective. Perhaps this would be helpful for you too.
The men here have a duty to be respectful too. They have been very disrespectful to Lorainn and I think she's tried to be patient with them.
This is not relevant. I was talking to Loriann about things she has control over. Even if there were some behaviour that the men needed to change, what good would it do to tell Loriann? It would just encourage her to be discontented and angry.
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Loriann,
You seem to be running into difficulties, so I hope you won't mind me giving some advice. Feminism has had a very powerful and destructive influence on our society. Because we are so immersed in it, we are often unaware of it. A forum like this is one of the few places you will find large numbers of people who are alert to the evil of feminism. This makes it different enough from what you are used to that you are probably experiencing a sort of culture shock.
I find it is helpful to examine myself carefully for any feminist assumptions that may be influencing me. I also make an extra effort to speak respectfully to men and to be understanding of their perspective. Perhaps this would be helpful for you too.
The men here have a duty to be respectful too. They have been very disrespectful to Lorainn and I think she's tried to be patient with them.
This is not relevant. I was talking to Loriann about things she has control over. Even if there were some behaviour that the men needed to change, what good would it do to tell Loriann? It would just encourage her to be discontented and angry.
They are doing it to her right here in this thread!
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Hasn't she been humiliated enough in this thread.
Being corrected is not the same as being humiliated.
If it's never ending and one sided it is!
You've got a responsibility in this too. You can't go off jumping to the worst possible conclusions, everytime somebody writes a post that seems off to you.
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
Worst yet, I ask for prayers for a dead Aunt and her poor boys and look at how few responded.
You win. Time for your celebratory back patting to begin.
God Bless.
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Loriann,
You seem to be running into difficulties, so I hope you won't mind me giving some advice. Feminism has had a very powerful and destructive influence on our society. Because we are so immersed in it, we are often unaware of it. A forum like this is one of the few places you will find large numbers of people who are alert to the evil of feminism. This makes it different enough from what you are used to that you are probably experiencing a sort of culture shock.
I find it is helpful to examine myself carefully for any feminist assumptions that may be influencing me. I also make an extra effort to speak respectfully to men and to be understanding of their perspective. Perhaps this would be helpful for you too.
The men here have a duty to be respectful too. They have been very disrespectful to Lorainn and I think she's tried to be patient with them.
This is not relevant. I was talking to Loriann about things she has control over. Even if there were some behaviour that the men needed to change, what good would it do to tell Loriann? It would just encourage her to be discontented and angry.
They are doing it to her right here in this thread!
You seem to have missed my point.
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Hasn't she been humiliated enough in this thread.
Being corrected is not the same as being humiliated.
If it's never ending and one sided it is!
You've got a responsibility in this too. You can't go off jumping to the worst possible conclusions, everytime somebody writes a post that seems off to you.
Are you saying that I jump to the worst possible conclusions? Why would you think that?
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
God Bless.
I hope you stay. Please don't take the dumb, rude and cowardly comments and lack of comments from people here too personally. They are all just sinners, like ourselves. Please be patient with us all. And, accept my apology for their bad manners.
You are a valued member of this forum and I know many folks would miss you if you left.
God Bless
:incense:
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
God Bless.
Loriann, I made a bad first impression here as well because I didn't measure my words. I learned my lesson and it got better. JayneK is right about the culture shock, I think you should consider her posts.
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
Worst yet, I ask for prayers for a dead Aunt and her poor boys and look at how few responded.
You win. Time for your celebratory back patting to begin.
God Bless.
This seems to be distressing for you and I am sorry for that, but I think that you may be making the right decision. However, I am not celebrating your departure.
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
God Bless.
Loriann, I made a bad first impression here as well because I didn't measure my words. I learned my lesson and it got better. JayneK is right about the culture shock, I think you should consider her posts.
Well, she's made a good enough impression with me, and the folks who have been rude to her, should not be encouraged by putting the blame on Lorainn.
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Well, she's made a good enough impression with me, and the folks who have been rude to her, should not be encouraged by putting the blame on Lorainn.
I see Loriann's position as a bit like my own, since we are both outsiders here. I consider that it is my responsibility to accommodate myself to the forum.
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In my Novus Ordo high school we had a disgusting religion teacher who said that giving a lethal dose of morphine was "passive euthanasia" and justified under the principle of double effect.
The school also taught a class called "Death and Dying" where students would plan their own funeral.
It's sick, sick stuff.
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But meditating on death has an important place in our religion. We go pray in graveyards, visit the tombs of saints, kneel before reliquaries filled with bones. From Friday till Sunday we mourn our Lord's death, we pray the sorrowful mysteries, everday we ask Mary to pray for us at the hour of our death. St. Paul says we are baptized into death. What do you think makes this Novus Ordo fascination with death different?
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But meditating on death has an important place in our religion. We go pray in graveyards, visit the tombs of saints, kneel before reliquaries filled with bones. From Friday till Sunday we mourn our Lord's death, we pray the sorrowful mysteries, everday we ask Mary to pray for us at the hour of our death. St. Paul says we are baptized into death. What do you think makes this Novus Ordo fascination with death different?
Yes, meditating on death in a Catholic way. The Novus Ordo death and dying obsession has nothing to do religious devotion.
There's definitely a difference between a perverse, humanistic, existentialist obsession with suffering and death and authentic Christian meditation on suffering.
It is one of the big weapons of the modernists to try and confuse the two.
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But meditating on death has an important place in our religion. We go pray in graveyards, visit the tombs of saints, kneel before reliquaries filled with bones. From Friday till Sunday we mourn our Lord's death, we pray the sorrowful mysteries, everday we ask Mary to pray for us at the hour of our death. St. Paul says we are baptized into death. What do you think makes this Novus Ordo fascination with death different?
There's definitely a difference between a perverse, humanistic, existentialist obsession with suffering and death and authentic Christian meditation on suffering.
It is one of the big weapons of the modernists to try and confuse the two.
I think I see what you mean. For instance I couldn't stand The Passion of the Christ, I found it disgusting, but the Novus Ordites who showed it to me insisted they knew better and that it was spiritually beneficial.
Can you be more specific if possible?
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Well, she's made a good enough impression with me, and the folks who have been rude to her, should not be encouraged by putting the blame on Lorainn.
I see Loriann's position as a bit like my own, since we are both outsiders here. I consider that it is my responsibility to accommodate myself to the forum.
It's a big forum. It isn't just tele's & ss's clique.
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Can you be more specific if possible?
Think of the morbid suffering in something like Les Miserables.
That's not a Christian message there.
You'd have to be around these Novus Ordo types talking about people dying all the time to know what I'm talking about.
I've never sat through The Passion of the Christ - we can't chalk that up to the Novus Ordo.
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It's a big forum. It isn't just tele's & ss's clique.
Don't ever take sides against the forum again Marcelino. Ever.
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You'd have to be around these Novus Ordo types talking about people dying all the time to know what I'm talking about.
Well, I know that Protestants do the same, always talking about death and dying (especially while eating) so I would have no problems believing that Novus Ordites do the same.
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Le forum c'est moi.
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It's a big forum. It isn't just tele's & ss's clique.
Don't ever take sides against the forum again Marcelino. Ever.
You do not = the forum, buster.
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It's a big forum. It isn't just tele's & ss's clique.
Don't ever take sides against the forum again Marcelino. Ever.
it was the right song for S2rea, and it's the right song for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S46OE902tM
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Iuvenalis - telling me to go to Hell isn't bullying - it's accountablility, LOL, in your book. OK WOW!!
SS I have plenty faults that you could rightly accuse me of, if you really knew me, which you don't, so you didn't need to lie & say that I said that Fatima WAS of the devil. I said no such thing. For the umpteenth time: Fatima could be of God since God can do anything & if it isn't then it COULD be of the devil based on all the division & fighting it has engendered, since fighting & hatred, as you know, is of the devil. It could also be mass hysteria or something else. It isn't a dogma of faith like some people SEEM to be trying to make it. We are free as Catholics to believe or not. Again: WE ARE FREE AS CATHOLICS TO BELIEVE OR NOT. That is the bottom line. There's no need to exaggerate my thoughts on this subject. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion on this & not forced into a mold of thought. btw - I NEVER thought that it was of the devil until all the fighting & hatred reared its ugly head.
Guess I must be a wicked fellow feminist because I understood Loriann's post about St. Paul before she had to painstakingly explain herself over & over. Think of it - what Catholic would come on a Catholic forum & 'preach' that St. Paul was in 'opposition' to Christ!!! Did she really appear that stupid to you?
All of you have a lot to answer for.
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SS I have plenty faults that you could rightly accuse me of, if you really knew me, which you don't, so you didn't need to lie & say that I said that Fatima WAS of the devil. I said no such thing. For the umpteenth time: Fatima could be of God since God can do anything & if it isn't then it COULD be of the devil based on all the division & fighting it has engendered, since fighting & hatred, as you know, is of the devil. It could also be mass hysteria or something else. It isn't a dogma of faith like some people SEEM to be trying to make it. We are free as Catholics to believe or not. Again: WE ARE FREE AS CATHOLICS TO BELIEVE OR NOT. That is the bottom line.
Sorry, I don't stand for lies against Fatima. It is more than just a "private revelation" and you can rest assured I'm going to defend it. You should be ashamed for suggesting it could be of the devil. There is no evidence what-so-ever to support a claim like that.
All of you have a lot to answer for.
Likewise. Your will be held accountable for your axe-grinding campaign against Fatima.
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Thorn, still on that eh?
Pssst, nobody bought it.
I have no power to condemn anyone to Hell, but after reading your hysterical, muddled, puerile provocations and just how scattered and vitriolic you are towards any expression of authentic Catholicism, I have to wonder if you're not well on your way there. Let me explain.
On this Hell myth you're fixated on: It didn't happen, but you're still on it. And you feign indignation and are so vehement, that I think thee doth protest too much!
You remind me of a borderline personality, the way you react hysterically, and polarize everything, andmake feeble attempts at controlling others through social pressure devices such as "taking offense." Always tangential to the argument, but never actually addressing anything head on. I'm not sure I believe in Borderline Personality Disorder myself, I tend to think they are secularist terminology for perfect possession, and am not saying you are, but you *remind* me of one.
Perhaps others on the forum with more experience in dealing with you would have more perspective: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder
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Iuvenalis. I feel sorry for Thorn, I wouldn't insinuate mental illness, and while you didn't ask she be damned, you did practically call her a devil. I think Thorn needs to realize just how evil her speculations about PW's nanny job are. And realize that is the reason she is getting this harsh reaction here.
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Iuvenalis. I feel sorry for Thorn, I wouldn't insinuate mental illness, and while you didn't ask she be damned, you did practically call her a devil. I think Thorn needs to realize just how evil her speculations about PW's nanny job are. And realize that is the reason she is getting this harsh reaction here.
Indeed, I did practically call her a citizen of Hades, her attitude was devil*ish*.
I don't insinuate mental illness lightly, or merely to insult. It's a serious inquiry, and a serious matter.
I can't think of too many reasons for her conduct, and it can help a lot of us to deal with her accordingly if we can get a good sense she is not entirely responsible for her actions here.
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Iuvenalis - telling me to go to Hell isn't bullying - it's accountablility, LOL, in your book. OK WOW!!
SS I have plenty faults that you could rightly accuse me of, if you really knew me, which you don't, so you didn't need to lie & say that I said that Fatima WAS of the devil. I said no such thing. For the umpteenth time: Fatima could be of God since God can do anything & if it isn't then it COULD be of the devil based on all the division & fighting it has engendered, since fighting & hatred, as you know, is of the devil. It could also be mass hysteria or something else. It isn't a dogma of faith like some people SEEM to be trying to make it. We are free as Catholics to believe or not. Again: WE ARE FREE AS CATHOLICS TO BELIEVE OR NOT. That is the bottom line. There's no need to exaggerate my thoughts on this subject. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion on this & not forced into a mold of thought. btw - I NEVER thought that it was of the devil until all the fighting & hatred reared its ugly head.
Guess I must be a wicked fellow feminist because I understood Loriann's post about St. Paul before she had to painstakingly explain herself over & over. Think of it - what Catholic would come on a Catholic forum & 'preach' that St. Paul was in 'opposition' to Christ!!! Did she really appear that stupid to you?
All of you have a lot to answer for.
Good point. It seems like almost all of their criticisms lately, have been baseless and malicious. I'm ashamed of them.
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb2ksttd111qgf5wso1_1280.jpg)
looks like "the sisters" have changed genders! :roll-laugh2:
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(http://polishmonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/hocus-pocus.jpg)
watch out for flying brooms! :roll-laugh2:
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(http://culture.pagannewswirecollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/witches-of-eastwick.jpg)
yikes! :scared2:
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks6td7n4Xz1qzhfrho1_500.png)
that is one nasty looking witch! :roll-laugh2:
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(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lapp16MoBv1qzzh6g.jpg)
I think there's one thing you've proved beyond any reasonable doubt tele and spiritus: it is easier to stir up vice, than virtue :applause:
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Loriann,
You seem to be running into difficulties, so I hope you won't mind me giving some advice. Feminism has had a very powerful and destructive influence on our society. Because we are so immersed in it, we are often unaware of it. A forum like this is one of the few places you will find large numbers of people who are alert to the evil of feminism. This makes it different enough from what you are used to that you are probably experiencing a sort of culture shock.
I find it is helpful to examine myself carefully for any feminist assumptions that may be influencing me. I also make an extra effort to speak respectfully to men and to be understanding of their perspective. Perhaps this would be helpful for you too.
Jaynek my issue with feminism on this board is women seem to blamed for it. Men allowed it to become part of our culture in the first place and they allow it to continue.
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But meditating on death has an important place in our religion. We go pray in graveyards, visit the tombs of saints, kneel before reliquaries filled with bones. From Friday till Sunday we mourn our Lord's death, we pray the sorrowful mysteries, everday we ask Mary to pray for us at the hour of our death. St. Paul says we are baptized into death. What do you think makes this Novus Ordo fascination with death different?
Yes, meditating on death in a Catholic way. The Novus Ordo death and dying obsession has nothing to do religious devotion.
There's definitely a difference between a perverse, humanistic, existentialist obsession with suffering and death and authentic Christian meditation on suffering.
It is one of the big weapons of the modernists to try and confuse the two.
Absolutely. It was not on death and dying but this is what made the NO intolerable to me. I was ignorant (still very much am) of Mass changes but I saw the Carl Rogers how do you feel type of trash being given to the children. It just feels dirty even if you don't understand what is behind it.
I don't want my child exposed to it, and no other child should be either. What gets me is that others don't recognize it? They call it fluff? It's dangerous, it's not light.
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In my Novus Ordo high school we had a disgusting religion teacher who said that giving a lethal dose of morphine was "passive euthanasia" and justified under the principle of double effect.
The school also taught a class called "Death and Dying" where students would plan their own funeral.
It's sick, sick stuff.
It is and we need to be very proactive protecting our children from being exposed to it.
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Most Catholic women seem to be a few small steps away from accepting worldly thinking on just about any social issue. Especially if under influence from their "nice" "friends."
I'm blessed to have my mother.
Tele how is this different than Catholic men? They should be even more accountable as they allow their wives and children to be exposed to it.
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Most Catholic women seem to be a few small steps away from accepting worldly thinking on just about any social issue. Especially if under influence from their "nice" "friends."
I'm blessed to have my mother.
Yes, compassion for they dying is so nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, you can't find any examples of that in scripture, lol
You don't get it. The nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr doesn't have compassion for the dying, they want to kill them off to reduce the world's population. The nurses who work there are often Protestants with poor understanding of theology and morality, who are told by those in chagre of Hospice that they're "doing the old people a favor" by shortening their life.
I disagree that it is a protestant issue.
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See, there is your narrative spinning a lie again. Calling me an old hag is very intelligent of you.
It's important for Catholics to recognize female malevolence. In particular whenever you find death obsessed women talking about hospice and how wonderful it is, Catholics need to be alert. Catholics are influenced by modern culture where they are afraid to call out feminine evil when they see it.
Hospice euthanizes people. But they do it with milk and cookies so don't be MEAN, or God will send you to HELL.
This is Novus Ordo depravity.
How is this specifically "feminine" evil?
I agree re milk and cookies.
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You know, it's always depressing to think that wallflower is actually one of the more conservative "younger" trad women. I think I understand why she keeps coming back to sites like this. It's because young trad women are intellectually unmoored, rudderless in this culture, and it's only by being constantly, harshly corrected that she can maintain her Catholic sense.
Tele this is uncalled for.
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How is this specifically "feminine" evil?
I agree re milk and cookies.
Well, I don't mean to suggest that lots of men aren't strongly pro-euthanasia. Just in my experience, women tend to be more vulnerable to morbidly obsessing over those with terminal illnesses, perhaps because they are much more heavily involved in caring for the sick.
Sometimes they seem to be less rational about it, and there's a danger of Catholic principles slipping away, and of becoming too friendly or sympathetic with groups that are not to be trusted.
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Tele this is uncalled for.
Maybe so, but I thought her post was pretty nasty.
SS and sede catholic are warning against the tendency towards support of euthanasia among these end of life care groups, and her response is pretty insulting.
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The Novus Ordo loves hospice. It seems Novus Ordo groups invariably have a symbiotic relationship with the enemies of the Church.
WEll, we did not use hospice with my Granddad--he did not need iv meds because he could take painkillers orally, and he could eat and drink. He ate a bowl of soup an hour before he passed.
But with Grammee it was different. Her bone cancer was excruciatingly painful, and we had two choices...hospice with a nurse at home or a nursing home. She had to have iv. The hospital had already written her off as dead. They would say insensitive things in front of her. There was no dignity. I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
You can administer palliative care without killing someone. You can adminsiter this care in the home for the comfort and lack of disorientation of the patient. God knows no one can sleep in a hospital.
Unfortunately healthcare has been hijacked by the immoral pro-death crowd. They may bring Depends and Milkshakes to help keep their terminally ill relatives at home but they also commit murder at times. Often we have no choice at times who to receive care from. This is the situation many parents find themselves in who need to see a perinatologist for their unborn child, having to receive care from someone pressuring them to murder their child.
It's not painting with a broad brush stroke. Hospice is known to be pro-death.
The only thing that will change this is men taking a stand against it.
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How is this specifically "feminine" evil?
I agree re milk and cookies.
Well, I don't mean to suggest that lots of men aren't strongly pro-euthanasia. Just in my experience, women tend to be more vulnerable to morbidly obsessing over those with terminal illnesses, perhaps because they are much more heavily involved in caring for the sick.
Sometimes they seem to be less rational about it, and there's a danger of Catholic principles slipping away, and of becoming too friendly or sympathetic with groups that are not to be trusted.
Yes I do see lots of muddy thinking.. it's not until the evil is really "apparent" that they seem to wake up to it. Not sure if apparent is the right word.. but I have seem them justify evil practices.
I'l never get over my shock hearing a friend of mine sympathize with the husband in the Schiavo case. I felt like my world was spinning. I couldn't believe she was not only not outraged but thought a living person should suffer death from dehydration.
Now the issue is sodomites being in legal unions. I sit at the homeschool socials and listen to the mothers talk like it's some kind of civil rights issue.
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Hospices are evil, anti-Catholic institutions where patients are secretly put to death against their wishes, and without their consent.
Hospice to me is a bunch of folks coming into my house to help me care for a loved one--for a few hours a day-- what are they to you
Hospices are state-funded executors of innocent people through euthanasia.
:applause:
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I'l never get over my shock hearing a friend of mine sympathize with the husband in the Schiavo case.
It was very shocking how even politicians and political liberals (Lawrence O'Donnell expressed sympathy for the parents) were surprised at the strength of pro-death sentiment in that case. The Crisis in the Church is also a crisis in society. The position of someone like Father Cekada is really beyond the pale, but it shows you just how vulnerable trad groups happen to be.
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Yes, Hospice is a wonderful thing.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude here, but no, I'm afraid that is not so Thorn. Hospice is not a wonderful thing. I wasn't going to say anything, but then I thought that it would be wrong of me not to tell the truth.
Hospice is basically a tool of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, something that simply suits their population control agenda. Just as abortion kills off babies, hospice kills off old people. It may sound crazy, but it also sounds crazy that ʝʊdɛօ-Masons are striving for world domination. But as we know, that's not crazy, it's a fact.
.
SS< I would guess that you have never taken care of an end stage cancer patient yourself, based on this post. I have cared for two relatives in my house at their end of days, and buried a third, who was in the hospital, TODAY.
Medical care is dependent upon the givers., and their morals.
There are physicians who participate in euthenasia.
Tthere are groups who deliver hospice and palliative care who advocate euthenasia.
There are hospice who administer medication and make a dying patient and his family comfortable as they watch their loved one die inch-by-inch.
There is no denial of food and water or action to hasten the death process, in hospice, it is much more likely in the hospital. By the time hospice is involved the caregiver is tired and lonely and can barely make room for a shower. To imply that all who engage in the assistance of hospice are attempting to "kill off" someone is uncharitable. Hospitals and medical facilities are far more likely to suggest these "Terry Schiavo" types of euthenasia.
Myrna--hang in there--you are not alone and you are doing the best you can. The Lord sees all and is blessing you for keeping these loved ones where they will be most comfortable. I pray for you!
Medical care is dependent upon the givers., and their morals.
This statement alone shows humanistic morals. We have standards in medical care, a Christain society protects it's citizens against murder and punishes those who commit it, it is not acceptable for physicians to make decisions based on how they feel.
I'll keep tangled hair because I have no time to use conditioner and use paper plates with no time to wash dishes to keep a relative safe. Needing relief is not a reason to accept a pro-death caregiver that will commit murder on our relative. Shame on us who do not do more for our relatives or parish family that are caring for the ill.
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
I'll try to explain. My grandmother is someone who speaks obsessively about people's ill health, and she's an obsessive novus ordite from the Chicago area.
When you hear incessant talk about hospice, there's always an undercurrent there. It's the same undercurrent I sense with regard to nearly all liberal Catholic causes.
There's a morbid subtext of promoting euthanasia, even if those involved aren't always aware of it.
The other half obsessed things I see are
birth control/gyn care/"chastity education" sex ed seminars/self-esteem for teenage girls
details of others marriage relationships - sometimes with the looming question of is he abusive/does he look at porn/he never helps her
so and so is a bad housekeeper/mother/kids are behind in homeschool
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
I'll try to explain. My grandmother is someone who speaks obsessively about people's ill health, and she's an obsessive novus ordite from the Chicago area.
When you hear incessant talk about hospice, there's always an undercurrent there. It's the same undercurrent I sense with regard to nearly all liberal Catholic causes.
There's a morbid subtext of promoting euthanasia, even if those involved aren't always aware of it.
The other half obsessed things I see are
birth control/gyn care/"chastity education" sex ed seminars/self-esteem for teenage girls
details of others marriage relationships - sometimes with the looming question of is he abusive/does he look at porn/he never helps her
so and so is a bad housekeeper/mother/kids are behind in homeschool
Here's my grandmother's parish website.
http://www.st-raymond.org/human_dvo.asp
A few years ago they had a Father's Day Bulletin with the cover telling fathers to be gentle. On Father's Day.
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Dear Sede, I think it is best to drop the issue. PW isn't deeply bothered by Thorns nasty insinuations, just perplexed. PW is away from the forum because she believes she has an inordinate attachment to it, she is not being driven away from Catholic Tradition. You can be sure of that.
PW is not who she appears to be. I don't mean she is a 50 year old man. IMO she is a disordered person being a chameleon. Tele you need to be very careful and run in the other direction. This is not just a personality conflict, and unlike Sede's accusation I do not dislike young women.
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Dear Sede, I think it is best to drop the issue. PW isn't deeply bothered by Thorns nasty insinuations, just perplexed. PW is away from the forum because she believes she has an inordinate attachment to it, she is not being driven away from Catholic Tradition. You can be sure of that.
PW is not who she appears to be. I don't mean she is a 50 year old man. IMO she is a disordered person being a chameleon. Tele you need to be very careful and run in the other direction. This is not just a personality conflict, and unlike Sede's accusation I do not dislike young women.
Tiffany if you have concerns like this I think you need to save it for private messages.
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I fail to see how that is an NO thing vs TRAD, but you guys paint everything with one broad brush stroke.
I'll try to explain. My grandmother is someone who speaks obsessively about people's ill health, and she's an obsessive novus ordite from the Chicago area.
When you hear incessant talk about hospice, there's always an undercurrent there. It's the same undercurrent I sense with regard to nearly all liberal Catholic causes.
There's a morbid subtext of promoting euthanasia, even if those involved aren't always aware of it.
The other half obsessed things I see are
birth control/gyn care/"chastity education" sex ed seminars/self-esteem for teenage girls
details of others marriage relationships - sometimes with the looming question of is he abusive/does he look at porn/he never helps her
so and so is a bad housekeeper/mother/kids are behind in homeschool
Here's my grandmother's parish website.
http://www.st-raymond.org/human_dvo.asp
A few years ago they had a Father's Day Bulletin with the cover telling fathers to be gentle. On Father's Day.
Lovely sermon for Father's Day! Can you imagine if anything was said negative on Mother's Day! Look at the contraception thread on here, with the be more caring, we assume he was not caring already.
Terrible about their quote with 90% of it is men against women. It's incredible how we have such an out cry against male abuse of women but our culture excuses almost all abusive behavior from women and then blames the victim (man) for it. He often has no recourse, police are usually reluctant to arrest a woman. There is even a sermon posted on here blaming men for angry women.
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Jaynek my issue with feminism on this board is women seem to blamed for it. Men allowed it to become part of our culture in the first place and they allow it to continue.
However feminism came about in the first place, women now are responsible for whether we take advantage of it or resist it.
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Tiffany,
This is PW’s leaving thread.
What prompted her to leave was your utterly unjust and baseless accusations against her.
Even after she has left, you still will not stop making viscious and false accusations against her.
You are even doing it on her own leaving thread, after she has left.
Your very serious lying about PW, is mortally sinful.
Matthew has told you off about it, and yet you are still doing it.
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I attend a non-"TRAD" Roman catholic church devoutly, adoration as well, and am part of the world.
The Novus Ordo isn't Catholic. And a Traditional priest would tell you to separate yourself from the modern world.
I also see a lack of even going to church among many
Well, I'm certainly not going to attend the Bogus Ordo. If that's all one has access to, they shouldn't attend it. They should stay home and make a Spiritual Communion.
You're right SS, the Bogus Ordo isn't Catholic, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any Catholics attending the services. If memory serves me right, I do believe that Mrs. Z attends a Norvus Ordo service and from what she's written, she sure seems Catholic to me.
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Jaynek my issue with feminism on this board is women seem to blamed for it. Men allowed it to become part of our culture in the first place and they allow it to continue.
However feminism came about in the first place, women now are responsible for whether we take advantage of it or resist it.
The men still allow it though, and parents are responsible for how their children are raised. A good example is the media that is allowed. How many men allow newspapers, catalogs, magazines, tv, movies, books with destructive influences for their daughters to see? How many allow their daughters to go out with friends without adult supervision? The men allow, they fund it, and they do not do what they can to stop it.
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
God Bless.
I hope you stay. Please don't take the dumb, rude and cowardly comments and lack of comments from people here too personally. They are all just sinners, like ourselves. Please be patient with us all. And, accept my apology for their bad manners.
You are a valued member of this forum and I know many folks would miss you if you left.
God Bless
:incense:
DITTO!
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How many allow their daughters to go out with friends without adult supervision? The men allow, they fund it, and they do not do what they can to stop it.
Yes, even "protective" fathers are very naive about their daughters and their daughters' friends. And they also tend to be scornful of devout men.
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You win.
I do not belong here.
I came for answers and got a case of heartburn.
I have to pick each word so very carefully that it is a chore vs a place to learn more. I say someone is inexperienced and receive six chastisements. Others say it with no note.
I say my grandfather died and get three thumbs down.
God Bless.
I hope you stay. Please don't take the dumb, rude and cowardly comments and lack of comments from people here too personally. They are all just sinners, like ourselves. Please be patient with us all. And, accept my apology for their bad manners.
You are a valued member of this forum and I know many folks would miss you if you left.
God Bless
:incense:
DITTO!
Good Grief! A thumb down for agreeing with someone. Give me another for saying that this was a rather immature gesture.
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Good Grief! A thumb down for agreeing with someone. Give me another for saying that this was a rather immature gesture.
It wasn't me Cheryl :jester:
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Good Grief! A thumb down for agreeing with someone. Give me another for saying that this was a rather immature gesture.
It wasn't me Cheryl :jester:
No Tele, I was inclined to think it was Sigmund! :roll-laugh1:
Sorry Sigismund, I shouldn't have tried to spell your name until I finished the second cup of coffee!
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Good Grief! A thumb down for agreeing with someone. Give me another for saying that this was a rather immature gesture.
Oh, you just can't win with the thumbs system. You just have to ignore it, it makes no sense why people thumb things down sometimes. Often it is just spite/a grudge.
I got thumbed down in the Bishop Williamson expulsion thread for pointing out the *contents* of his expulsion letter, not advocating anything, just for pointing out that the letter was clear on terms and thus, he is certainly 'out' of the Society. For that, thumbs down, like I'm Fellay or something.
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I attend a non-"TRAD" Roman catholic church devoutly, adoration as well, and am part of the world.
The Novus Ordo isn't Catholic. And a Traditional priest would tell you to separate yourself from the modern world.
I also see a lack of even going to church among many
Well, I'm certainly not going to attend the Bogus Ordo. If that's all one has access to, they shouldn't attend it. They should stay home and make a Spiritual Communion.
You're right SS, the Bogus Ordo isn't Catholic, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any Catholics attending the services. If memory serves me right, I do believe that Mrs. Z attends a Norvus Ordo service and from what she's written, she sure seems Catholic to me.
I didn't say that those who attended the NO weren't Catholic.
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I attend a non-"TRAD" Roman catholic church devoutly, adoration as well, and am part of the world.
The Novus Ordo isn't Catholic. And a Traditional priest would tell you to separate yourself from the modern world.
I also see a lack of even going to church among many
Well, I'm certainly not going to attend the Bogus Ordo. If that's all one has access to, they shouldn't attend it. They should stay home and make a Spiritual Communion.
You're right SS, the Bogus Ordo isn't Catholic, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any Catholics attending the services. If memory serves me right, I do believe that Mrs. Z attends a Norvus Ordo service and from what she's written, she sure seems Catholic to me.
I didn't say that those who attended the NO weren't Catholic.
Excuse me if I misread, but did you not suggest they stay home? If they're truly Catholic why would they stay home even if the service the attend is questionable?
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Oh, you just can't win with the thumbs system. You just have to ignore it, it makes no sense why people thumb things down sometimes. Often it is just spite/a grudge.
I got thumbed down in the Bishop Williamson expulsion thread for pointing out the *contents* of his expulsion letter....
Maybe the thumber was thumbing down Bishop W's expulsion. Maybe they just don't want to believe it, maybe this, maybe that...
People take the Thumbs way too seriously. It's human respect you know, and that's bad!
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I attend a non-"TRAD" Roman catholic church devoutly, adoration as well, and am part of the world.
The Novus Ordo isn't Catholic. And a Traditional priest would tell you to separate yourself from the modern world.
I also see a lack of even going to church among many
Well, I'm certainly not going to attend the Bogus Ordo. If that's all one has access to, they shouldn't attend it. They should stay home and make a Spiritual Communion.
You're right SS, the Bogus Ordo isn't Catholic, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any Catholics attending the services. If memory serves me right, I do believe that Mrs. Z attends a Norvus Ordo service and from what she's written, she sure seems Catholic to me.
I didn't say that those who attended the NO weren't Catholic.
Excuse me if I misread, but did you not suggest they stay home? If they're truly Catholic why would they stay home even if the service the attend is questionable?
I said that, if the NO is all one has access to, they should stay home. This is what the SSPX teaches, and even some FSSP priests believe the same. We are not obliged to attend a Mass that is not Catholic.
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Excuse me if I misread, but did you not suggest they stay home? If they're truly Catholic why would they stay home even if the service the attend is questionable?
Cheryl, I was going to ask if you are new to tradition and to this forrum, but I see you have been with us over 2 years. I am just wondering why you refer to Mass as "the service". This is protestant terminology. Just wondering out loud.
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Tiffany,
This is PW’s leaving thread.
What prompted her to leave was your utterly unjust and baseless accusations against her.
Even after she has left, you still will not stop making viscious and false accusations against her.
You are even doing it on her own leaving thread, after she has left.
Your very serious lying about PW, is mortally sinful.
It looks a lot more like penitent woman isn't so penitent when it comes to forgiving those who hurt her. What happened to The Our Father? Are we going to be forgiven, if we don't forgive? I doesn't appear so. Hmm, that makes me concerned for her, tele, ss and you! It also makes me sick when I see it week after week on this forum!
I don't mind ignoring someone, who's views I don't like, but it's another thing to ignore them being ganged up on and abused, by a bunch of resent filled bullies.
I don't care what somebody's views are; nobody deserves to be treated like that.
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Marcelino,
That is a very unjust accusation that you have made against PW.
PW has forgiven those who have harmed her.
It is the bullies who drove her off of CathInfo who keep gloating over this.
Tiffany has made more untrue accustations aginst PW on this thread just a few hours ago.
That is what I was responding to.
These sadistic women will not even let that poor girl leave, without bullying her on her own leaving thread.
To insult and lie about someone after they have left, on their own leaving thread, is dishonourable behaviour.
What has happened to PW between July and last week is a real injustice.
It is a stain on the honour of CathInfo.
Those who have done this owe that girl an apology.
So do you, Marcelino.
Act like a man, and withdraw that untrue accusation that you made.
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Matthew told Thorn off because of her sadistic conduct towards PW, and said that Thorn owed PW an apology.
Thorn has defied Matthew.
Matthew told Tiffany off because of her sadistic conduct towards PW.
Tiffany has also defied Matthew.
Thorn and Tiffany even defy Matthew, who is the Forum owner.
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I like how Sede Catholics writes, in quick statements that easily convey what he/she is meaning.
Keep it up Sede Catholic.
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I like how Sede Catholics writes, in quick statements that easily convey what he/she is meaning.
Keep it up Sede Catholic.
Dear PartyIsOver221,
Thank you for your support.
We need people of integrity like you on this thread.
I am a man.
I want to mention that, because you were unsure about it.
God Bless you, PartyIsOver221.
Yours,
Sede Catholic.
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It is confirmed with me that you are a man, Sede Catholic.
God bless,
PIO221
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Matthew told Thorn off because of her sadistic conduct towards PW, and said that Thorn owed PW an apology.
Thorn has defied Matthew.
Matthew told Tiffany off because of her sadistic conduct towards PW.
Tiffany has also defied Matthew.
Thorn and Tiffany even defy Matthew, who is the Forum owner.
Sede,
Matthew did not write to me, on this forum or in pm. I believe I wrote to him twice, once to share that my comment was not baseless (he wrote in his post to PW) and another time when Thorn was being criticized. It is not to defy a moderator to disagree with them. He did not put on his "moderator hat" and tell me not to post on the subject.
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Excuse me if I misread, but did you not suggest they stay home? If they're truly Catholic why would they stay home even if the service the attend is questionable?
Cheryl, I was going to ask if you are new to tradition and to this forrum, but I see you have been with us over 2 years. I am just wondering why you refer to Mass as "the service". This is protestant terminology. Just wondering out loud.
I thought that the word service was more polite then mess. Those who attend SSPX chapels or "Sede churches attend Mass. And since the whatever you choose to call it they have at NO churches was written by mostly Protestants, service seems to me at least, the correct terminology. As far as protestant terminology goes, I don't know much about it, I'm a cradle Catholic. Hope I was able to help you to better understand your wonderingl :wink:
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Good Grief! A thumb down for agreeing with someone. Give me another for saying that this was a rather immature gesture.
Oh, you just can't win with the thumbs system. You just have to ignore it, it makes no sense why people thumb things down sometimes. Often it is just spite/a grudge.
I got thumbed down in the Bishop Williamson expulsion thread for pointing out the *contents* of his expulsion letter, not advocating anything, just for pointing out that the letter was clear on terms and thus, he is certainly 'out' of the Society. For that, thumbs down, like I'm Fellay or something.
Thanks Iuvenalis! I don't care about up or down thumbs, that's why I made the joke about Sigismund. The poor man could mention it is Tuesday on a Tuesday and still get a thumb down. Right silly if you ask me. But since no one asked I'll probably get a thumb down. :jester:
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I thought that the word service was more polite then mess. Those who attend SSPX chapels or "Sede churches attend Mass. And since the whatever you choose to call it they have at NO churches was written by mostly Protestants, service seems to me at least, the correct terminology. As far as protestant terminology goes, I don't know much about it, I'm a cradle Catholic. Hope I was able to help you to better understand your wonderingl :wink:
That makes sense, thank you Cheryl.
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Excuse me if I misread, but did you not suggest they stay home? If they're truly Catholic why would they stay home even if the service the[y] attend is questionable?
Cheryl, I was going to ask if you are new to tradition and to this forum, but I see you have been with us over 2 years. I am just wondering why you refer to Mass as "the service". This is protestant terminology. Just wondering out loud.
I've known Catholics who use that term, "service" or "the services" when talking
about Mass, and it really gets to me. I have to be careful when I tell them, because
it's too easy to let my zeal take over and shock them.
It happens a lot in reference to funerals, but we ought to say "Requiem Mass" not
"funeral." It's not a "burial service" but a Requiem Mass, or just Requiem. The
word is taken from the first word or two or three of the Introit (Requiem aeternam
dona eis Domine: et lux perpetua luceat eis.), which is typical with all Latin Rite
Masses, like Os justi, or Loquebar, or Salve sancta parens.
Catholics who watch a lot of TV or listen to radio a lot pick up the secular media's
vocabulary so then they'll say so-and-so's "funeral," even when it was a prominent
Catholic, or a pope or a bishop for whom the Requiem was offered.
It has become a lot more confusing now that the term "Requiem" applies specifically
to the Canonized Traditional Latin Mass, and what you're going to be talking about
in the "news" is a bishop's Novus Ordo "burial service," which is not a CTLM.
It's been a long time since a prominent, traditional bishop died. So the rareness of
the news is another thing to contend with. I think the last time was Archbishop
Marcel Lefebvre, and that was 1991! People now 21 years old were only ONE year
old at that time!!
Okay, I checked. The last one was Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer, who died one
month to the DAY after +ABL. I never noticed that. April 25th after March 25th.
Those are, the Feast Day of St. Mark, Evangelist, and the Feast of the
Annunciation. They were both about the same age, too, +de Castro Mayer was
one year older.
................ speaking of people "departing" ................ :read-paper:
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Marcelino,
That is a very unjust accusation that you have made against PW.
PW has forgiven those who have harmed her.
It is the bullies who drove her off of CathInfo who keep gloating over this.
Tiffany has made more untrue accustations aginst PW on this thread just a few hours ago.
That is what I was responding to.
These sadistic women will not even let that poor girl leave, without bullying her on her own leaving thread.
To insult and lie about someone after they have left, on their own leaving thread, is dishonourable behaviour.
What has happened to PW between July and last week is a real injustice.
It is a stain on the honour of CathInfo.
Those who have done this owe that girl an apology.
So do you, Marcelino.
Act like a man, and withdraw that untrue accusation that you made.
I'M SICK OF HEARING ABOUT IT! ALL I SEE IS YOU WHINING ABOUT THIS IN THREAD AFTER THREAD, LONG AFTER IT'S OVER AND DONE WITH. WHEN WILL YOU STOP HARRASSING THESE GIRLS.
DON'T PREACH TO ME ABOUT CHIVARLY, I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO DEFEND P.W. AND SHE ISN'T THE FIRST PERSON HERE I'VE DEFENDED FROM BULLIES, BUT YOU'VE TURNED THIS INTO BULLYING YOURSELF! SO NOW I'M DEFENDING THE GIRLS YOU ARE BULLYING!
speck vs. log
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Marcelino should get control of himself.
Hysteria is unbecoming in a man.
So is posting endless juvenile pictures of witches, cats, films, etc.
Marcelino has 5 ignores.
That is understandable.
I have only mentioned the bullying of PW on two threads.
And this is PW leaving thread, so what does he expect me to talk about – the weather?
I have bullied no one here.
The people who have bullied PW have chosen to torment her.
All I have done is criticize their cruel non-Catholic behaviour.
Marcelino has made an accusation against PW which is obviously untrue:
Marcelino has accused PW of not forgiving those who have harmed her.
PW has forgiven those who have harmed her.
Marcelino has made an obviously untrue and ridiculous accusation against PW.
PW has forgiven those who have harmed her.
And CathInfo members know that.
So Marcelino should act like a man and apologize to her.
That would be better than posting juvenile pictures of witches and films, and ranting in capital letters.
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It is very wrong that Hospices are being promoted on this thread.
Hastening death against the wishes of the patient is very common in Hospices.
This is condemned by the Catholic Church.
Here are excerpts from an article:
"Catholic nurse recounts hospice horror, says doctor euthanized priest"
By Matt C. Abbott.
"The public still does not realize that Terri was taken from us to fulfill a hospice-euthanasia partnership, fulfilling their agenda in an 'in your face' demonstration of what they can do, are doing, and will do to others," asserts Panzer.
In recent days, Panzer received the following (edited) e-mail from registered nurse and Illinoisan Wendy Ludwig, who recounts the horror of witnessing the euthanizing of an elderly Catholic priest:
…
I'm so upset, horrified and angry about this. In my area, the hospice went on an 'advertising campaign,' writing articles in the local newspaper, handing out flyers to doctors' offices and trying to drum up support from local clergy by going around to each church asking to set up a meeting with them so they can 'explain the benefits of hospice.'
'It's truly terrible where I live. It's not uncommon to see a patient eating in a restaurant with his or her family one week and the following week be dead after hospice has come in. When my mother was ill, she made absolutely clear that she did not want hospice anywhere near her, yet the hospital …did many tactics to hasten her death and ended up doing as they pleased, coming up with some strange medical power-of-attorney that no one had seen before. It was truly awful. For the rest of my life it will affect me, and there is never a day that I do not think about it. I did everything I possibly could, but they still found ways to not treat infections, to deny her enough fluid, to do so many things, and it did not matter what I said or did — or what she said, for that matter.
'I'm currently seeking a new career, because as a pro-life Catholic, I cannot in good conscience work in hospitals anymore. Even the Catholic hospitals support hospice in one way or another. I can tell you honestly that I'm not aware of any hospice that is good. Everyone I know who has gone to a hospice in any state that I know of has been …
'It's been so overwhelming to me. What's so unbelievable is the way that hospice can convince people they are doing 'good' and 'mercy' for their loved ones. It appears to me that they …take the family at their most vulnerable time, convince them the only way the patient won't suffer is by using hospice, and lie to them about what is actually happening. Even when people feel like something isn't right, they do nothing, somehow believing what hospice has told them. With such an 'ad campaign' in the newspapers and elsewhere, I don't know how to begin to make people understand what hospice is doing. It's notable also that once a family member dies in hospice care, people do not want to hear the truth; it seems they defend hospice profoundly, …
'I witnessed a doctor euthanizing a Catholic priest who stated in no uncertain terms that he did not want hospice. The priest did not have cancer or any other terminal illness. He was 94, still saying Mass and very active. When the priest needed knee surgery for an injury to his knee, the doctor decided it was time to call in hospice. The priest adamantly and angrily refused. So the doctor took his medicine away and started to give him 'pain pills' even though the priest said he was not in pain.
'The priest was in a nursing home following his knee injury and was getting physical therapy. …he needed to go to the hospital…
'While in the hospital, the doctor refused him food and fluids…
…
A short time later the nurse came and got the family but told me to stay in the waiting room. I had a terrible feeling; I went to the nurses' station and the curtain was pulled in Father's room. I heard a priest saying prayers over him, the family in the room as well. I was told I could not go in. …
'I stood outside and heard the nurse telling the family that they were giving him another dose of medicine and taking off his oxygen. I was told to go back to the waiting room. I knew what was happening: The doctor had viciously called me to sit in the waiting room while he euthanized the priest. I left the hospital, and before I got home, I received a call that the priest had passed away.
The doctor still practices at the hospital.
'I have many other horror stories.'
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/110401
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/100429
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Everyone should be very careful to avoid Hospices.
Hospices are places where they deliberately hasten the death of the patient.
Hospices give medication which rapidly hastens death.
Hospices dehydrate patients, which rapidly hastens death.
Do not be deceived.
If you really love your loved ones, keep them away from these evil Hospices.
Hospices are evil.
Even the “Catholic” ones cannot be trusted.
For help about euthanasia or hospices in the USA phone TOLL-FREE: 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
Mailing Address:
Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network
P.O. Box 521
Narberth, PA 19072
Phone: 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
Email address: info@lifeandhope.com
http://www.terrisfight.org/need-help/
For help about euthanasia or hospices in the UK phone: 0800 1691719
The call is FREE.
http://www.spuc.org.uk/about/pfn/support
Here are some links explaining the truth:
http://rense.com/general63/euth.htm
http://www.spuc.org.uk/about/pfn/pfn
http://terrisfight.org/need-help/
National Right to Life Committee
512 10th St. NW
Washington, DC 20004
Robert Powell Center for Medical Ethics
phone. 202.626.8800 ext. 162
fax. 202.628.2784
email. medethics@nrlc.org
http://www.nrlc.org/MedEthics/Contact.html
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Marcelino should get control of himself.
Hysteria is unbecoming in a man.
So is posting endless juvenile pictures of witches, cats, films, etc.
Marcelino has 5 ignores.
That is understandable.
I have only mentioned the bullying of PW on two threads.
And this is PW leaving thread, so what does he expect me to talk about – the weather?
I have bullied no one here.
The people who have bullied PW have chosen to torment her.
All I have done is criticize their cruel non-Catholic behaviour.
Marcelino has made an accusation against PW which is obviously untrue:
Marcelino has accused PW of not forgiving those who have harmed her.
PW has forgiven those who have harmed her.
Marcelino has made an obviously untrue and ridiculous accusation against PW.
PW has forgiven those who have harmed her.
And CathInfo members know that.
So Marcelino should act like a man and apologize to her.
That would be better than posting juvenile pictures of witches and films, and ranting in capital letters.
Nobody was saying anything in that thread. It was you who had to come back after it had been dead and take a few more pot shots.
You never seem to let this stuff die.
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Okay everyone! Marcelino (who I thought was my friend) has repeatedly informed me that I am morally obligated to come back and post (making a fool out of myself in the process!) to publicly admonish those who have stood up for me. Apparently their defense of me against those who say hurtful lies about my character, is "bullying" and I need to get off my "high horse" and offer public forgiveness.
So to my defenders: thanks, but no thanks (is that good enough Marc??). And to Tiffany and Thorn, even though you've never apologized, I forgive you for: a) accusing me of being a predator, and b) making bets with people about how long my employment will last.
I am a very troubled person Tiffany, but I am not a bad person. I am trying to heal myself and be a good Catholic mother. I would never try to hurt someone and I am not dangerous.
Oh and the reason I'm posting right now is because when Marcelino couldn't guilt trip me into posting in his defense, he decided to insinuate that I made a new screen name (though won't say what it is) and I'm now posting under it. This is false, and I want to make a record in defense against this implied accusation.
God Bless. Oh and I forgive you too Marcelino.
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You know what. I'm am genuinely sorry for using your name Marc. I should have taken a breather and at least did this without mentioning your name. I just get so exhausted from trying to so hard to figure things out and having hurtful things said about me and to me. I am sorry though. I am terribly anxious.
Please pray for me. On Saturday my father is marrying his mistress. He is still married to my mother. It's horrible and I'm not coping well. I'm not looking to victimize myself or get attention. I just need prayers.
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Prayers for you, PW.
Don't let Marcelino or anyone else bully you into doing or saying something you don't want to. He's been PMing several people (myself included), refering to them as "sissies" and so forth. HE is the bully, not you or any of us.
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Prayers for you, Marcelino
Don't let Me or anyone else bully you into doing or saying something you don't want to. I've been PMing several people (you included), refering to them as "sissies" and so forth. I am the bully, not marcelino.
:applause:
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You know, I just thought pw's "defendors" went so far with her "defense" that they became the bullies. Now though, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe some of the criticisms that had been levied against pw weren't correct. Oh well, maybe they should have been more charitable about it, than they were, but i'm guessing they were on to something.
I can't read all the posts on the forum, after all. And, I don't know everything.
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Because I got tired of multiple PMs telling me I have a moral duty to post again? Even after I told you I wasn't comfortable posting again after my dramatic goodbye scene?
That was nice of you to thumb down my apology to you.
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(http://www.unbiasedmoviereviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/defendor-movie-poster-2009.jpg)
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(http://wendycrittenden.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/bicycle-repairman.jpg)
the "super hero" brigade :jester:
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Nice...PM me one more time and then block me. You are 6 years old, aren't you?
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Dear PW,
I thought perhaps the coward Marcelino had been sending you many PMs.
And I was right.
If he is bullying a young lady, he is just a coward.
Just put that coward on ignore.
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the word "private" has no meaning to me :dancing:
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That is just like Marcelino.
To lie about what someone has said.
PW did not say what Marcelino has quoted her as saying.
He is just dishonourable liar.
The lying troll, Marcelino, is just lying, and bullying a young girl.
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That is just like Me
To lie about what someone has said.
Marcelino did not say that.
The lying troll, Sede Catholic, is just making it up, and bullying a nice guy.
I am ashamed of you.
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I did not say what he said.
He keeps quoting people and intentionally changing the words in the quotes.
He is just liar.
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Funny, trying to make it look like I said something I didn't.
Didn't your parents ever teach you not to lie, Marcelino?
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blah, blah, blah, blah
(http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/image.cfm?id=25270&type=img&name=kaopectate-vanilla-flavor-anti-diarrheal-01.jpg)
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Marcelino is a coward and a troll.
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Funny, trying to make it look like I said something I didn't.
Didn't your parents ever teach you not to lie, Marcelino?
It seemed like the real truth to me.
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Marcelino,
You are still being aggressive towards PW.
You contemptible coward.
You already accused PW of not forgiving those who harmed her.
That was a wicked accusation to make.
Now you are bullying her again.
You are nothing like a man.
You are a gutless, dishonourable, contemptible coward.
If you are going to bully someone here, try bullying a man.
Try it with me.
See how well do against a man.
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Marcelino is a coward and a troll.
I think you are projecting.
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I think you are scuм.
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Funny, trying to make it look like I said something I didn't.
Didn't your parents ever teach you not to lie, Marcelino?
It seemed like the real truth to me.
No, the real truth is you are a bully who is full of double standards. You said the other day that I "lack charity" after that nasty post you wrote towards me, followed by a PM calling me a sissy.
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Marcelino,
I am still being aggressive towards marcelino.
i am a contemptible coward.
I already accused marcelino of being the devil
That was a wicked accusation to make.
Now i be bullying him again.
i are nothing like a man.
i are a gutless, dishonourable, contemptible coward.
If i are going to bully someone here, i should bullying myself
i am going to pick on myself now
i'll see how well i do against a me!
:stare:
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I think you are scuм.
that's not nice!
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Funny, trying to make it look like I said something I didn't.
Didn't your parents ever teach you not to lie, Marcelino?
It seemed like the real truth to me.
No, the real truth is you are a bully who is full of double standards. You said the other day that I "lack charity" after that nasty post you wrote towards me, followed by a PM calling me a sissy.
Uhhhh, maybe, i probably thought you were being sissy and you did lack charity. That pretty much describes how i see you. :cowboy:
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marcelino, your behaviour is disgusting.
You are not a man of honour.
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You only prove my point. You're the real sissy for making a mountain out of a molehill about a thumbs down.
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Your behaviuor is disgusting.
You are not a man of honour.
Sorry, but I still think you are projecting. :pop:
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Marcelino you're being incredibly obnoxious and childish.
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You only prove my point. You're the real sissy for making a mountain out of a molehill about a thumbs down.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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You only prove my point. You're the real sissy for making a mountain out of a molehill about a thumbs down.
That's not what this is about and you should know it, but you don't seem to care much about stuff like that, at least when your buddy's pride is involved.
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Marcelino you're being incredibly obnoxious and childish.
:applause:
Guitarplucker, my man, you you show good judgement of character.
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Sede is being incredibly obnoxious and childish.
I am sorry, but I have to agree. I think he needs his mommy,
:baby:
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Nice...PM me one more time and then block me. You are 6 years old, aren't you?
Hon, I wouldn't waste your breath. He isn't worth the aggravation and the silly public argument.
For the record, I feel that you have been unjustly accused by the folks in this forum gossiping about their wild and unfounded theories as to what goes on in your private life. I lurk the forum quite a bit, and have read a lot of the train wreck threads on the topic.
I'm posting this from my Kindle, so unfortunately I have to be brief, but I wanted to advise you that you should avoid replying to people such as Marcelino until your temper has cooled a bit.
You can be assured of my prayers, and I hope that you will soon find peace and refuge in Christ.
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Well Marcelino, you should at least admit that for someone who started out suggesting everyone show more civility, you're not giving much of an example.
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No, the fact is you should quit PMing people and bossing them around. It is you who should apologise to PW for harassing her through PMs, Marcelino.
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Well Marcelino, you should at least admit that for someone who started out suggesting everyone show more civility, you're not giving much of an example.
A gentleman defends himself.
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I don't like fighting. I'm sorry I made a post today. Please stop.
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Marcelino has quoted me in quotes.
But he has replaced what I have written with things that I have not said.
He has lied.
Marcelino has also dishonstly changed what PW has said.
Marcelino has also dishonestly changed what Spiritus has said.
Marcelino is a liar.
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No, the fact is you should quit PMing people and bossing them around. It is you who should apologise to PW for harassing her through PMs, Marcelino.
Oh please, you don't know what you're even talking about. We had a conversation and she didn't happen to like my opinion, you over grown baby! Gee whiz; don't you know anything about women? Sometimes when they get upset, they go "ape" and start one of these silly brawls, to get attention and use lonely hearts like you, to help them get their revenge.
Brother, you ought to watch, "The Loves of Carmen," (1948) Glenn Ford and Rita Hayworth (jew). You might learn something kiddo
(http://claudia79.tripod.com/rhpix/carmeneat.jpg)
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I don't like fighting. I'm sorry I made a post today. Please stop.
This is what I asked her to do, more than once, in those private messages I sent, in case somebody thinks it really is any of their business.
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Marcelino, you accused PW of starting brawls.
That was in the post of your immediately preceding the last one.
So which is it?
Make up your mind, liar.
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the same three down thumbs, gee, i wonder who they're from :jester:
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Is that your zero cents worth?
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The coward Marcelino put me on ignore.
What a coward.
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Faithbyproxy, thank you.
Marcelino, I'm sorry that I disrespected you by calling you out.
I drove up to my Dad's house today and everyone is drinking. A man I haven't seen since I was 10 years old decides it would be funny to share an embarrassing story from my childhood in front of 20+ people.
My favorite movie used to be Coal Miner's Daughter. He asked how my dreams to "be like Loretta Lynn and pop out babies and be a country singer" turned out.
My Dad gave my ONE YEAR OLD 7up in a sippy cup. His mistress put her in a flower girl dress that I said no way to. They want her IN the wedding. I'm a "prudish princess" and a "sally sipper" They asked me if I'm going to wear a burka to the wedding. It is very hard to deal with.
.... I went to be alone and when I read your message insinuating I was posting under another account I just snapped. I reacted too quickly. I'm sorry. You basically said it would be sinful of me not to come back and post on this thread because of what was being said in my defense. How was I supposed to react?
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Marcelino
I just tried to pm you and got this message:
There were problems sending your message to some of the recipients.
The following members do not exist:
The following members are not accepting personal messages: Marcelino
This could also be due to their inbox size being over the limit set
Please let me know when I can pm you.
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Yes Tiffany... pm him so you slander me even more.
At least you're taking Tele's advice and not doing it publicly anymore.
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Say the Angelic Salutation before responding to this question in your own mind:
Hail Mary, Full of Grace! The Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus!
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our deaths, Amen.
Now, can all parties in this thread agree to leave it, as there is nothing but bad fruit which seems to come from it.
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Nice...PM me one more time and then block me. You are 6 years old, aren't you?
Hon, I wouldn't waste your breath. He isn't worth the aggravation and the silly public argument.
For the record, I feel that you have been unjustly accused by the folks in this forum gossiping about their wild and unfounded theories as to what goes on in your private life. I lurk the forum quite a bit, and have read a lot of the train wreck threads on the topic.
Yes that is very true.
You are obviously a kind person, FaithByProxy.
God Bless you.
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Oh please, you don't know what you're even talking about. We had a conversation and she didn't happen to like my opinion, you over grown baby! Gee whiz; don't you know anything about women? Sometimes when they get upset, they go "ape" and start one of these silly brawls, to get attention and use lonely hearts like you, to help them get their revenge.
No, you don't know what you're talking about. And who are you calling an "overgrown baby" and "kiddo"?
Like I said, you need to grow up, Marcelino.
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Marcelino,
Abusing the quote feature to misquote people is not adult behavior, and allowing it would cause great confusion on a message board.
Therefore I can't allow it. I really don't have a choice here.
Stop, or you're gone.
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I've been lurking here for quite some time as well. This whole debacle seems to have entered into the realm of the ridiculous. I really can't fathom why all this controversy has stirred up. I know we're all subject to fallen human nature and whatnot, but shouldn't Traditional Catholics know better?
It's all so..strange.
I'm sorry that you've been subjected to this, PenitentWoman.
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Lots and lots of experience, SS.
Melancholics incline toward perfectionism and OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder).
They are the pretty much the only ones to have to endure "scruples".
Excuse me, but pigeon-holing anyone into a single category of any kind is uneducated and narrow-minded thinking. No one fits neatly into one little box: crossover as well as unpredictable behaviors occur even we we least expect them.
That is not fair. People vacillate among several temperaments, too. If not, we'd all be just like little green aliens.
I didn't mean to derail the thread; I merely wanted to point this out.
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I cannot know for certain about Penitent Woman, or anyone else's agenda (if any applies) here; yet, a lack of charity and rash judgments run rampant here, as in most forums I've been on, hurting people instead of striving to be truly helpful to fellow members.
We all need to step back and examine ourselves on this one. All of us.
Penitent Woman, do what is best for you: stay or leave, but because it is best for you and not because someone is uncharitable. You can always hit the hide button, or ignore them without it. (I love that!).
However, I hope you will stay. Converse with those who sincerely try to be charitable (and they are seemingly the minority on all forums) and ignore the rest. No one can hurt you if you do not let them.
Many Blessings!
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I myself am a little baffled by the dislike of Penitent Woman. Some may see her as a "fake persona" but even if she was, why the strong dislike?
Rash judgement is something we all struggle with. Being aware of it is the first step in overcoming it.
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PW you don't have to come back to respond to this, it's just something to think about.
You have mentioned several times being very troubled. In the first "altercation" thread, C of S had picked up on that and advised you seek out a spiritual director rather than air it here, putting yourself at the mercy of strangers. This set you off yet here you are essentially admitting the same thing. I also said I didn't know whether you were either troubled or malicious. Enough time and posts and contradictions had gone by that we had a pretty clear image that something was off. You proceeded to insinuate we were just jealous of you, but perhaps you can now admit your judgment of our perceptions were unjust?
If some of the things said were untrue, everyone has had people say awful things about them up here. Everyone. If you can't handle it, I don't blame you, neither can I. But why blame Tiffany for distrusting you? You started out your relationships here with dishonesty, whole threads of it, completely unwarranted, people were being nice and encouraging to you, where did you expect it to go from there?
Several women had doubts about your story but let it slide in the interest of charity -- until you started throwing underhanded insults that those who knew you were stretching the limits of time, space and reality in the image you were triyng to project were simply lesser women. Then, of course your intentions will be questioned. Are you truly just troubled and in need of patience and friendship or are you malicious and quietly, cunningly stirring the pot? Only you know the answer to that.
Either way, take some personal responsibility here. No ifs ands or buts, no feeling sorry for yourself; just straight up, yes, I did it, I'm sorry, I've learned a tough lesson. Mix in a resolution not to do it again and you will find a weight lifted from your shoulders. Taking personal responsibility in all the areas of your life, not just in this one thing, is your best takeaway from this experience. Learn to tell the story of your past and even your present to yourself with direct statements of accountability, rather than a collection of this, that and the other thing made me do it. It puts your life back into your own control and puts your intellect and will back on top. It's truly the best therapy.
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PW you don't have to come back to respond to this, it's just something to think about.
You have mentioned several times being very troubled. In the first "altercation" thread, C of S had picked up on that and advised you seek out a spiritual director rather than air it here, putting yourself at the mercy of strangers. This set you off yet here you are essentially admitting the same thing. I also said I didn't know whether you were either troubled or malicious. Enough time and posts and contradictions had gone by that we had a pretty clear image that something was off. You proceeded to insinuate we were just jealous of you, but perhaps you can now admit your judgment of our perceptions were unjust?
If some of the things said were untrue, everyone has had people say awful things about them up here. Everyone. If you can't handle it, I don't blame you, neither can I. But why blame Tiffany for distrusting you? You started out your relationships here with dishonesty, whole threads of it, completely unwarranted, people were being nice and encouraging to you, where did you expect it to go from there?
Several women had doubts about your story but let it slide in the interest of charity -- until you started throwing underhanded insults that those who knew you were stretching the limits of time, space and reality in the image you were triyng to project were simply lesser women. Then, of course your intentions will be questioned. Are you truly just troubled and in need of patience and friendship or are you malicious and quietly, cunningly stirring the pot? Only you know the answer to that.
Either way, take some personal responsibility here. No ifs ands or buts, no feeling sorry for yourself; just straight up, yes, I did it, I'm sorry, I've learned a tough lesson. Mix in a resolution not to do it again and you will find a weight lifted from your shoulders. Taking personal responsibility in all the areas of your life, not just in this one thing, is your best takeaway from this experience. Learn to tell the story of your past and even your present to yourself with direct statements of accountability, rather than a collection of this, that and the other thing made me do it. It puts your life back into your own control and puts your intellect and will back on top. It's truly the best therapy.
You are definitely angling for a response. I wonder what you will tell her in PM?
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PW you don't have to come back to respond to this, it's just something to think about.
You have mentioned several times being very troubled. In the first "altercation" thread, C of S had picked up on that and advised you seek out a spiritual director rather than air it here, putting yourself at the mercy of strangers. This set you off yet here you are essentially admitting the same thing. I also said I didn't know whether you were either troubled or malicious. Enough time and posts and contradictions had gone by that we had a pretty clear image that something was off. You proceeded to insinuate we were just jealous of you, but perhaps you can now admit your judgment of our perceptions were unjust?
If some of the things said were untrue, everyone has had people say awful things about them up here. Everyone. If you can't handle it, I don't blame you, neither can I. But why blame Tiffany for distrusting you? You started out your relationships here with dishonesty, whole threads of it, completely unwarranted, people were being nice and encouraging to you, where did you expect it to go from there?
Several women had doubts about your story but let it slide in the interest of charity -- until you started throwing underhanded insults that those who knew you were stretching the limits of time, space and reality in the image you were triyng to project were simply lesser women. Then, of course your intentions will be questioned. Are you truly just troubled and in need of patience and friendship or are you malicious and quietly, cunningly stirring the pot? Only you know the answer to that.
Either way, take some personal responsibility here. No ifs ands or buts, no feeling sorry for yourself; just straight up, yes, I did it, I'm sorry, I've learned a tough lesson. Mix in a resolution not to do it again and you will find a weight lifted from your shoulders. Taking personal responsibility in all the areas of your life, not just in this one thing, is your best takeaway from this experience. Learn to tell the story of your past and even your present to yourself with direct statements of accountability, rather than a collection of this, that and the other thing made me do it. It puts your life back into your own control and puts your intellect and will back on top. It's truly the best therapy.
*yawn*
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*yawn*
Certain people seem to have an exceptional level of interest, don't they?
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It is time for this thread to end...
:smile:
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I myself am a little baffled by the dislike of Penitent Woman. Some may see her as a "fake persona" but even if she was, why the strong dislike?
Rash judgement is something we all struggle with. Being aware of it is the first step in overcoming it.
There's two sides to every fight. We shouldn't be so quick to demonize one side. We should try to see it from the other person's perspective and not be so judgmental. Everyone wants to talk about that, but nobody seems to want to do it!
Geez, even when i defended Telesphosphorous from being ganged up on, it was obvious that S2rea and Wallflower were right about him! They just were too harsh/judgmental/uncharitable/whatever. But they weren't angry at the guy for nothing! He wasn't some poor little innocent victim boy, who'd never done anything wrong in his life. Why should they have to be so perfect, while he gets a pass? That doesn't seem fair. People should be more even handed, than they have been.
Besides, look at how much more experience S2rea and Wallflower have in big areas, like being married, parents and active members of local chapels, while Telesphosphorous has lots of experience on web forums and reading. Fine, he's smart, but he doesn't have the life experience they have. If anything, his experiences incline him towards bitterness, which I think is a lot of what they were picking up on. Not to mention, poor judgment. S2rea's a father. So, I'm not surprised he was angry at that guy! I know it's technically "legal," but so are lots of other things, that catholics turn their noses up at and it wasn't like he was sorry about it! On the other hand, they didn't need to launch jihad, after jihad against him!
Nowadays, everybody's got some kind of goofy idea rolling around in that squirrel cage, they call a brain. That should be humbling, but, it seems to me, ever since "everybody" decided they weren't subject to the authority of The Pope and/or The Society anymore, humility went out the window. Oh, but they aren't turning into protestants (no, no, no lmao!)
Everybody wants to take the word of a presumably, young, attractive and dying to get married girl, over the word of lots of older, married and not so charming anymore mature women, who are a little on the cranky side.
They say, revolutions are always "brewed," by our elites, among the: young, alientated, bitter, ostracized and disadvantaged. That seems to be correct.
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Marcelino, Matthew has asked the members of this forum to drop the "Tele issue". So let's not go into that discussion again.
And by the way, only one person could have thumbed down Matthew's warning to Marcelino, I would think...
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:dwarf:
AAAARRRGHHH!!!!
ENOUGH!!! BE CHARITABLE!!!!!
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It is time for this thread to end...
:smile:
Agreed. :wink:
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Yes, Marcellino -- drop the "Tele baiting".
Let me ask you, very nicely, WHY do you want to distort the truth? To make Tele look worse than he normally should look, if you presented things objectively?
If he was interested in a 17-year-old when he was 32 or 33, why do you round DOWN the girls age to 16, while rounding UP his age to 40? Does that show good will on your part?
I say it does not.
Let us stick to the truth, shall we?
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Marcellino, good-bye. You attempted to "ignore me", you downrate a post that is completely reasonable and common sense -- I don't need your immature self here anymore (if I ever did).
First you LITERALLY put words in various members' mouths, by falsifying "quotes" from them -- a huge no-no for ANY forum -- then you insist on exaggerating/distorting facts when it's convenient.
If it helps cast Telesphorus in a worse light, truth is optional, right? NO IT ISN'T. I won't have lies posted on this forum, even if they're about Obama, Bill Gates, or the bloody Antichrist!
I hate to break it to you, but the Saints stuck to the simple TRUTH 100% of the time, whether it was convenient or not. You show me JUST ONE time where the Saints set aside the 8th commandment when they were dealing with a "bad guy" and I'll un-ban you and offer a profound apology.
If you want to post lies, find a forum that ISN'T run by an Irishman...
I hate lies more than anything else.
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Everybody wants to take the word of a presumably, young, attractive and dying to get married girl, over the word of lots of older, married and not so charming anymore mature women, who are a little on the cranky side.
Oh, and I moderated this too.
You threw a couple adjectives in there that did NOT apply to PenitentWoman. AT ALL.
I'm not going to address them individually, I'm just going to say that you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Very, very ashamed.
Why do you feel the need to speak ill of someone, when it doesn't even apply to them? When did PenitentWoman ever admit to, or apply such descriptions to herself?
In other words, I can understand the motivation for "detraction" because at least the matter discussed is true. But slander? I have a hard time grasping that one. When you decide to slander someone, you KNOW you're doing something wrong, because you know it's not true! "Not true" always equals "wrong".
In every single case.
So you slander PenitentWoman, you slander Telesphorus -- you're just one messed-up individual. CathInfo will be a better place without you.
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The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
I have noticed many people think they know fellow-posters than than they know themselves and like to hurl uncharitable accusations even though they have o idea what they are talking about. I talked to a friend today that was excited about tradition but has been treated in an unCatholic way by traditional clergy and lay-people. Consistently. Words hurt. "You" (not PW) should not call people names or accuse them of things just because you do not like what they say. It really hurts people. Either try to charitably correct them or shut up, those are the only two Catholic choices on forums. Very sad.
Here is what the person I mentioned above said to me [I will protect the guilty here as will be seen]:
Thanks for the inquiry, but no I have not moved forward toward trying to have a priest visit locally, and unfortunately I've felt more like each of the other instances of seed which fell on stoney ground, in the wayside, etc., than that of the seed that;
"fell upon good ground; and brought forth fruit that grew up, and increased and yielded, one thirty, another sixty, and another a hundred fold."
In other words, I've been anything but either diligent or successful. Frankly, my progression in Traditionalist Catholicism is in the weeds. There's just too much blood and carnage, I've lost heart to further pursue it. It's such hostile territory, I really don't see how there's much energy left within the movement to "reach the lost," when so much is being directed at aggression toward others within the movement. It seems each time I speak with someone from one group or another, they're warning me about the "others."
Years ago when we began investigating what we didn't then know was the "new religion," I told many friends that investigating Roman Catholicism was like being parachuted into a war zone.
Then, upon discovering Traditionalist Catholicism, it seemed to promise so much more. I was so heartened at the prospect and promise which [Some traditional Church] seemed to have. At last a refuge from all of the strife and a safe harbor where finally Aileen and I would feel comfortable being brought into the fullness of the Faith.
You remember at least as much as we shared and you remember from the debacle over, of all things, sharing recordings of the sermons with others at no cost and with me footing the bill. I honestly thought it was supportive to both [Some Church] and to the Traditionalist movement as a whole which would be greeted with welcome thanks for all of the hard work and effort which [So and so] and I had put into it.
However, when it became obvious that I'd been the victim of calumny and scandalized behind my back, even unbeknownst to me with a large part of the parishioners there, it was sickening to say the least, and a betrayal which totally blindsided both me and Aileen- she simply refused to go back for more abuse, though I tried to tough it out for a while.
Still, it's not exactly supportive to worship for one to know that they're held in derision by those with whom there should otherwise be bonds of love. Both of the women, who never "asked" anything but rather already had their minds firmly set, actually told me that they "knew what I was up to and that I was trying to bring down [some aspect of the traditional movement]. Bring down [some aspect of the traditional movement]??? What??? I can think of nothing more absurd, but apparently that was the group-think there with regard to yours truly. Finally when two women-parishioners separately and on two different Sundays chewed me out with terms which would literally have brought me to blows had it been a man, I concluded that if this is the purity of Christianity," then I've been chasing an empty dream, which, of course isn't the case, but still the quest continues with no firm resolve in sight.
With all of that as an all too verbose of a prologue, the goal is not at all supplanted and it remains obvious, at least to this mere mortal, that the I-81 Corridor from Greencastle, PA on down to Winchester, basically comprising the convergence of Commerce resultant from the I-81 intersection with I-70 as well as those lesser junctions such as those at Route 30 to the north and those to the south at Martinsburg and Winchester are ripe, and an ideal location for a Traditionalist parish.
Still, there are so many pitfalls and hurtles which would need to be overcome, and frankly, I don't see me as the person to bring that into being. Not enough that there would be both Masonic and Novus Ordo Diocesan intrigue to deal with, the Traditionalist zealots would probably be worse, as the Jєωιѕн mother's prayer goes, "it's not enough God that we have our enemies, but you've also allowed our friends to torment us also!!!"
Frankly, it's been like a game of ping-pong bouncing from each traditionalist group's round-robin lambasting of other Traditionalists as schismatics, heretics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, seemingly every time I've made an inquiry. Such a mess. So, where's the purity of the faith and any semblance of "the Church???
Sorry for the sour grapes, but I always say it like I see it.
I sincerely hope things are going more cheery there on your end. I really dread that there could be yet another disappointment for us in another parish like that at [Some Church], or to think of all of the rancor which could arise if we tried to start a parish here.
Again, I was so totally blindsided by the betrayal at [Some Church], I will likely always be like the child once burned fearing fire; or once bitten always dreading encounters with dogs. Father [So and so] never even called me once, while spreading all of the "information," such as it was among the parishioners who either attached me openly, out of "christian duty," of course, or gave a cold shoulder. Did he not care a tinker's damn for my soul??? No, it's obvious that he didn't. However, what was so all-fired important was that we must keep those sermons from being recorded and passed around at no charge. Barf. It's so stupidly disgusting that it still makes my head hurt.
Again, I hope things are going better there on that end. I regret the clashes we've had in the past, but likely it will always be so. I was recently speaking with a traditionalist woman I met on a trip whom I'd never met, and I'm sure you do not know either, and she lamented that it seems the proclivity or the psychological makeup of "Trads," as she called Traditionalist Catholics, that they (or we) had to be of necessity strong willed and head strong to have ever persevered come to the point of "bucking the system" to ever even be in the Traditionalist movement. Ever looking for tables to upset near the temple, the sermon on the mount just loses its glitter in comparison to a good fight.
---
My Response:
These are the end times, when Christ comes again will he find faith? Barely. But what about charity. Nope. I remember when that issue first hit, I told you not to be scandalized, the Faith is what not matters, not the uncharitable people that claim to have it. The sum is greater than the parts, the human element of the Church has never been pretty, but now it is worse than ever since we have been without a Pope for so long. It is a trick of the Devil to bring you down with him, to get caught up in venom and miss the Faith. Just hold fast and do the right thing.
Have you become a formal member yet?
When you get sanctifying grace in your soul you might be able to deal with the sad realities a little better. Perhaps a lot better. God, because of your struggle may flood you with consolations.
The CMRI does not have any of the nonesense you have encountered or dealt with anywhere else. Their clergy, believe or not, are just concerned about saving souls. How novel, there must be something wrong with them.
My wife and I can commiserate with you regarding [various things], we are not liked and they let us know it. We have to rise above it. It is an opportunity to merit and knock some time off of Purgatory.
Remember Father [So and So] would not even [do something vital for the salvation of a soul] because of his nonesense. It is quite easy to be scandalized. My wife was. I wasn't because I already knew what he was about. I took a calculated risk but had a back-up plan. I just try to hold the faith and give the clergy the opportunity to do the right thing every once in a while and offer the persecution to God through our Lady.
---
STOP THE NAME CALLING AND ACCUSATIONS, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! AND PEOPLE WHO JUST GIVE A THUMBS DOWN JUST TO BE MEAN AND HURTFUL WILL HAVE TO ANSWER AS WELL.
Yes, you will find pettiness at its finest among traditionalists, on this forum and other forums and in Church's and among "friends" and some clergy. But the uncharitable bloggers are the ones we notice because they like to blab their mouths. There are many who do not engage in this offense against God and man. We only notice the ones that do.
Take heart. Much human opinion ain't worth the cyper space it is written on.
I know a lady who was rebuked by an SSPX Priest for dressing too modestly. She went through this transition and thought she was on the right track (she was) and was rebuked by this Priest at a picnic. The lady is my wife. Thanks be to God she stayed on the right path.
If you give your entire will to God, do what He wants, dress modestly, he will give you everything you desire including marriage.
This happened to me. I said "God I'll do anything you want, but I have to get married." When I finally said, God, I'll do whatever you want PERIOD. Miraculous things happened. I was married with a child in a new house in less than 13 months. Give your ENTIRE will to God. He can't be outdone in generosity.
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I don't know anything about what went on with Marcellino but
I hate to break it to you, but the Saints stuck to the simple TRUTH 100% of the time, whether it was convenient or not.
VERY WELL STATED!!!
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If you want to post lies, find a forum that ISN'T run by an Irishman...
I'm an Irishman as well. Is it true that Irish men like a good debate? I know I do.
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This is the amended version that I tried to post after the cement dried:
The only poster I've seen in my limited time here who is predatory and IMO a danger to others has been PW
A person can only hear such comments about themselves so many times before they start to internalize it. Words hurt.
I've had a lot of difficulty lately excepting some of the spiritual truths of tradition. Social issues I'm confident on, but everything else I just feel numb over.
I've tried and tried...I've read and read. I still don't wake up and feel strongly about the things I should. I have little conviction about why the N.O. mass is wrong. I believe it is wrong, for all the reasons given to me here, but I absolutely could not talk to someone today, relay what I've been taught, and convince them of anything beyond "the TLM is a more beautiful mass."
For some reason I just can't feel as strongly as I should about the things that are imperative to being Traditional.
It has been made clear to me that willingness (and even strong desire) to be a submissive helpmate, and have a big family are nothing more than desired characteristics of women who are already religiously Traditional.
My understanding now is that you can be a Traditional woman because you would never dream of attending the N.O. mass. Because you have an interior life that is strong. You could still even have feminist tendencies, but that's okay because it is secondary to an understanding of the mass. This makes someone traditional. My beliefs only make me a "conservative Catholic" or something. Not traditional. I only have the secondary (less important things) down.
I know that many people have noticed that I post ten times more about my clothing issues than anything about the mass. There are two reasons.
1.). I have significant pressure from a few welling meaning posters (from opposite ends of the trad spectrum) to attend/not attend mass in certain places. When I talk about these issues in posts, I receive insistent pm's from both sides. This why I just don't bother.
2.) I have serious, deep vanity issues and, as CatherineofSienna mentioned (and I rejected) I have developed scruples over modest dress. To the point of panic attack symptoms and insomnia. Over skirts.
I've gone from wearing immodest dress with such great confidence that I will forever be haunted by the permanence of digital photography, to being severely self conscious and anxious... as if I wish I could dress away the past. My obsession over, and my changes in dress have caused accusations BOTH here and in real life of being attention seeking. It's not a good sign when you begin to question your own sincerity, and start to wonder if you should just give up.
I was asked this question that is pretty much the final straw for me. I was asked if I could see into the future, and I knew for certain that being Traditional would mean I never got married, would I continue to pursue tradition, or would I give it up because I want marriage so badly?
The fact that I had to pause and think about it, proves my very shallow understanding, and I suppose lack of authenticity when it comes to Traditional Catholicism. I'm just not ready. Being domestic and an anti-feminist, wanting lots of babies and complementing it all with a daily rosary just isn't enough.
I believe God directed me here, but now I can't feel him at all. It's arrested development and spiritual emptiness. Posting here all the time is perhaps just a way to combat loneliness and pretend my personal life isn't a complete disaster. I can't tell if it's good or bad to keep isolating myself. I want to avoid sin, but I think my loneliness is hurting me mentally.
To be accused of being a danger to this board is very, very hurtful. It is just a word that seems ridiculous applied to myself. I've never been described that way.
But the truth is, maybe I am not good for this board. Maybe my presence is problematic. From the very first thread I posted on, I worried I seemed disingenuous. Three months later it is STILL a problem. I have to really pray about why that is.
And no, it isn't for silly reasons like inability of some to believe that I'm a domestic manic who hand washes laundry and bakes bread. If I could pray as successfully as I multitask housework, I'd be in great shape.
It is my spiritual problems and lack of marital experience that make me "dangerous" --or unsuitable for posting about things here. I have to accept that.
I came here to learn the faith, but I feel darker and more confused than I have in a long time. I'm not certain why that is, but maybe it was the result of missing an opportunity. I was presented with a place to learn the truth, and instead of doing that, I've just upset people, more than anything. I have to stop just wishing for a husband who tells me where to go to mass, and how to dress etc. I need to have conviction on my own, and not be so weak and pitiful.
So many here have tried to help me. Despite my fear that this was an overall failure of an experience, there were people who made an impact on me. If I've learned anything at all, it is that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. We each bear a cross that influences our opinions and how words come out...but it isn't the whole story. I'll never forget how it was I found this board.
Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I'm sorry to those who I annoyed or made believe I came here with evil intentions. Christ knows that I did not.
I really do have to break my addiction here and figure out my life...before I really do hurt someone with my ambivalence.
Please keep me in my prayers. In the past couple of days I've been forced to come to terms with some very serious issues that I've been in a state of denial over. Things that will seriously impact my life. I have a lot of financial problems, an issue with my daughter's father that I need to come to terms with, and a family who honestly believes I've gone insane as a religious fanatic and that I need professional help.
I could really use your prayers...even if you are someone who thinks I'm a predator. I know God knows I'm a good person, but just very troubled.
Please pray that the Lord will give me the strength to do what is right as a Catholic, out of personal conviction, not just going through the motions because I'm addicted to a forum that makes me feel that I'm held accountable. I have to do this alone, and be held accountable to God. Please pray I will still someday find the fullness of truth in Tradition, and that I'll be stronger, so that my dedication to it won't be dependent on other things.
God Bless all of you for putting up with me. I'm very grateful to have found CathInfo and I know I will miss it.
In Christ,
PW
I have noticed many people think they know fellow-posters better than than they know themselves and like to hurl uncharitable accusations even though they have no idea what they are talking about. I talked to a friend today that was excited about tradition but has been treated in an unCatholic way by traditional clergy and lay-people. Consistently. Words hurt. "You" (in general not PW) should not call people names or accuse them of things just because you do not like what they say. It really hurts people. Either try to charitably correct them or shut up, those are the only two Catholic choices on forums. Very sad.
Here is what the person I mentioned above said to me [I will protect the guilty here as will be seen]:
Thanks for the inquiry, but no I have not moved forward toward trying to have a priest visit locally, and unfortunately I've felt more like each of the other instances of seed which fell on stoney ground, in the wayside, etc., than that of the seed that;
"fell upon good ground; and brought forth fruit that grew up, and increased and yielded, one thirty, another sixty, and another a hundred fold."
In other words, I've been anything but either diligent or successful. Frankly, my progression in Traditionalist Catholicism is in the weeds. There's just too much blood and carnage, I've lost heart to further pursue it. It's such hostile territory, I really don't see how there's much energy left within the movement to "reach the lost," when so much is being directed at aggression toward others within the movement. It seems each time I speak with someone from one group or another, they're warning me about the "others."
Years ago when we began investigating what we didn't then know was the "new religion," I told many friends that investigating Roman Catholicism was like being parachuted into a war zone.
Then, upon discovering Traditionalist Catholicism, it seemed to promise so much more. I was so heartened at the prospect and promise which [Some traditional Church] seemed to have. At last a refuge from all of the strife and a safe harbor where finally [Someone] and I would feel comfortable being brought into the fullness of the Faith.
You remember at least as much as we shared and you remember from the debacle over, of all things, sharing recordings of the sermons with others at no cost and with me footing the bill. I honestly thought it was supportive to both [Some Church] and to the Traditionalist movement as a whole which would be greeted with welcome thanks for all of the hard work and effort which [So and so] and I had put into it.
However, when it became obvious that I'd been the victim of calumny and scandalized behind my back, even unbeknownst to me with a large part of the parishioners there, it was sickening to say the least, and a betrayal which totally blindsided both me and [Someone]- she simply refused to go back for more abuse, though I tried to tough it out for a while.
Still, it's not exactly supportive to worship for one to know that they're held in derision by those with whom there should otherwise be bonds of love. Both of the women, who never "asked" anything but rather already had their minds firmly set, actually told me that they "knew what I was up to and that I was trying to bring down [some aspect of the traditional movement]. Bring down [some aspect of the traditional movement]??? What??? I can think of nothing more absurd, but apparently that was the group-think there with regard to yours truly. Finally when two women-parishioners separately and on two different Sundays chewed me out with terms which would literally have brought me to blows had it been a man, I concluded that if this is the purity of Christianity," then I've been chasing an empty dream, which, of course isn't the case, but still the quest continues with no firm resolve in sight.
With all of that as an all too verbose of a prologue, the goal is not at all supplanted and it remains obvious, at least to this mere mortal, that the I-81 Corridor from Greencastle, PA on down to Winchester, basically comprising the convergence of Commerce resultant from the I-81 intersection with I-70 as well as those lesser junctions such as those at Route 30 to the north and those to the south at Martinsburg and Winchester are ripe, and an ideal location for a Traditionalist parish.
Still, there are so many pitfalls and hurtles which would need to be overcome, and frankly, I don't see me as the person to bring that into being. Not enough that there would be both Masonic and Novus Ordo Diocesan intrigue to deal with, the Traditionalist zealots would probably be worse, as the Jєωιѕн mother's prayer goes, "it's not enough God that we have our enemies, but you've also allowed our friends to torment us also!!!"
Frankly, it's been like a game of ping-pong bouncing from each traditionalist group's round-robin lambasting of other Traditionalists as schismatics, heretics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, seemingly every time I've made an inquiry. Such a mess. So, where's the purity of the faith and any semblance of "the Church???
Sorry for the sour grapes, but I always say it like I see it.
I sincerely hope things are going more cheery there on your end. I really dread that there could be yet another disappointment for us in another parish like that at [Some Church], or to think of all of the rancor which could arise if we tried to start a parish here.
Again, I was so totally blindsided by the betrayal at [Some Church], I will likely always be like the child once burned fearing fire; or once bitten always dreading encounters with dogs. Father [So and so] never even called me once, while spreading all of the "information," such as it was among the parishioners who either attached me openly, out of "christian duty," of course, or gave a cold shoulder. Did he not care a tinker's damn for my soul??? No, it's obvious that he didn't. However, what was so all-fired important was that we must keep those sermons from being recorded and passed around at no charge. Barf. It's so stupidly disgusting that it still makes my head hurt.
Again, I hope things are going better there on that end. [Something personal.] I was recently speaking with a traditionalist woman I met on a trip whom I'd never met, and I'm sure you do not know either, and she lamented that it seems the proclivity or the psychological makeup of "Trads," as she called Traditionalist Catholics, that they (or we) had to be of necessity strong willed and head strong to have ever persevered come to the point of "bucking the system" to ever even be in the Traditionalist movement. Ever looking for tables to upset near the temple, the sermon on the mount just loses its glitter in comparison to a good fight.
---
My Response:
These are the end times, when Christ comes again will he find faith? Barely. But what about charity. Nope. I remember when that issue first hit, I told you not to be scandalized, the Faith is what not matters, not the uncharitable people that claim to have it. The sum is greater than the parts, the human element of the Church has never been pretty, but now it is worse than ever since we have been without a Pope for so long. It is a trick of the Devil to bring you down with him, to get caught up in venom and miss the Faith. Just hold fast and do the right thing.
Have you become a formal member yet?
When you get sanctifying grace in your soul you might be able to deal with the sad realities a little better. Perhaps a lot better. God, because of your struggle may flood you with consolations.
The CMRI does not have any of the nonesense you have encountered or dealt with anywhere else. Their clergy, believe or not, are just concerned about saving souls. How novel, there must be something wrong with them.
My wife and I can commiserate with you regarding [various things], we are not liked and they let us know it. We have to rise above it. It is an opportunity to merit and knock some time off of Purgatory.
Remember Father [So and So] would not even [do something vital for the salvation of a soul] because of his nonesense. It is quite easy to be scandalized. My wife was. I wasn't because I already knew what he was about. I took a calculated risk but had a back-up plan. I just try to hold the faith and give the clergy the opportunity to do the right thing every once in a while and offer the persecution to God through our Lady.
---
STOP THE NAME CALLING AND ACCUSATIONS, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! AND PEOPLE WHO JUST GIVE A THUMBS DOWN JUST TO BE MEAN AND HURTFUL WILL HAVE TO ANSWER AS WELL.
Yes, you will find pettiness at its finest among traditionalists, on this forum and other forums and in Church's and among "friends" and some clergy. But the uncharitable bloggers are the ones we notice because they like to blab their mouths and lie. There are many who do not engage in this offense against God and man. We only notice the ones that do.
Take heart. Much human opinion ain't worth the cyber space it is written on.
I know a lady who was rebuked by an SSPX Priest for dressing too modestly. She went through this transition and thought she was on the right track (she was) and was rebuked by this Priest at a picnic. The lady is my wife. Thanks be to God she stayed on the right path.
If you give your entire will to God, do what He wants, dress modestly, he will give you everything you desire including marriage.
This happened to me. I said "God I'll do anything you want, but I have to get married." When I finally said, God, I'll do whatever you want PERIOD, Miraculous things happened. I was married with a child in a new house in less than 13 months. Give your ENTIRE will to God. He can't be outdone in generosity.
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If he was interested in a 17-year-old when he was 32 or 33, why do you round DOWN the girls age to 16, while rounding UP his age to 40? Does that show good will on your part?
Many people did that, they always resort to that, because it is sadistic, jealous self-righteousness that has nothing to do with morality and has everything to do with their perversity.
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BTW Marcelino. She's exceptionally pretty.
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BTW Marcelino. She's exceptionally pretty.
Our calling out the deception and manipulative patterns have nothing to do with anything external.
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Tiffany, you are silent about Marcelino's lies and deception.
Why?
Try gaining some integrity.
You have been very sadistic to a young lady.
Your behaviour is hard, cruel, spiteful, and malicious.
Even after PW has left, you keep tormenting her.
That is senseless, vindictive cruelty on your part.
Come back on here, and condemn Marcelino's lies and bullying of a girl.
If you do not, the forum will know that what I have said about you is true.
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I myself am a little baffled by the dislike of Penitent Woman. Some may see her as a "fake persona" but even if she was, why the strong dislike?
Rash judgement is something we all struggle with. Being aware of it is the first step in overcoming it.
Dear Capt McQuigg,
I am glad that you are aware of the truth about what happened to PW.
The vast majority of CathInfo members are good Catholics.
They are also on PW’s side.
The banned poster Marcelino, and Thorn, Tiffany, and wallflower have cause this suffering for that poor girl.
Those women have done this for personal reasons, as anyone can see from a cursory reading of their posts about it.
The majority of CathInfo members have integrity, and have deplored this very upsetting sadistic bullying.
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Dear Matthew,
Thank you very much for banning Marcelino.
His lies about PenitentWoman were disgraceful.
He was the only “man” who was doing that.
I use the word man loosely for such a dishonourable coward.
The other people here who persecuted PW were women.
And their reasons said more about them than about PW.
And their reasons were deeply personal, which was apparent to discerning members of CathInfo.
Thank you also, Matthew, for condemning Marcelino changing what people had said in quotes, when he quoted them.
Marcelino had deceitfully done that to PW, to Spiritus, to guitarplucker, and to me.
The fact that Marcelino did that to PW, who is a girl, showed that he lacked honour.
He also sent the poor young girl a series of bullying PMs.
Matthew, thank you for consistently doing the right thing about how PW has been treated.
I know that being a moderator must be a very difficult thing.
The savage and cruel tormenting of PW has been the most unacceptable bullying that I can recall ever witnessing on the internet.
It has been so satanic.
Thank you for defending a vulnerable member of CathInfo.
You are a very good moderator.
God Bless you, Matthew.
Yours, Sede Catholic.
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Hopefully, PW will be comforted by the great support that she has received from such a large number of CathInfo members.
A young girl who came here to learn about traditional Catholicism, should have been allowed to learn about it, instead of being hounded off of the Forum.
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Marcelino put me on ignore, because he is a gutless coward.
I wish he was man enough to face up to a response from me.
But he is a liar and a coward.
He was able to bully a frightened young girl.
But he was not man enough to face up to another man.
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M was criticized for misusing the quote system, when PW did the same thing.
I do sign my posts in the anon forum, but when you quote from there, it shows up as guest. M was called out for allegedly manipulating quotes, but not PW? I did not state anything there I have not stated before, it doesn't matter, but PW did the same thing pages before him.
Sede read WF posts again. She hit the nail on the head. Many of us said nothing until PW started to devalue. I know I put her on ignore after thread I posted in with her, even after I was attacked, I did not speak up. When I saw she attacked WF is when I first spoke up.
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And their reasons were deeply personal, which was apparent to discerning members of CathInfo.
Sede this is silly, what could possibly be "deeply personal" reasons? It's the internet, could all be ex-sumo wrestlers in Tibetan monastery...
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Are you by chance a misogynist?
The other people here who persecuted PW were women.
And their reasons said more about them than about PW.
And their reasons were deeply personal, which was apparent to discerning members of CathInfo.
Yours, Sede Catholic.
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Are you by chance a misogynist?
Because only misogynists see cattiness in a harsh light?
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M was criticized for misusing the quote system, when PW did the same thing.
I do sign my posts in the anon forum, but when you quote from there, it shows up as guest. M was called out for allegedly manipulating quotes, but not PW? I did not state anything there I have not stated before, it doesn't matter, but PW did the same thing pages before him.
You're being ridiculous.
Filling in the name for an anonymous quote -- especially when that name was provided in the post itself -- is NOT the same as falsifying the quote itself!
I didn't ban Marcelino for "touching" the quotes, I banned him for maliciously distorting and changing the words of people's quotes -- putting words in people's mouths.
There is no rule against "summarizing" in a quote, taking out parts, adding bold or italics, or other incidental edits. The quotes are not some kind of sacred cow that can't be touched.
In short -- "Get real".
Marcelino actually put words in peoples' mouths. PW never did this.
Quit trying to defend the indefensible.
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Are you by chance a misogynist?
Because only misogynists see cattiness in a harsh light?
Tele, what you saw as cattiness, was probably rule number one or two on the playground. Takes one to know one. Didn't anyone notice that all of those who agreed with PW were male? I wouldn't suggest anyone read, Men are from Mars, Woman are from Venus, but the woman on the forum saw PW in a way that the men did not. I wouldn't suggest going back and reading all the posts in this thread to count how many males for PW and how many against, but while I was recovering from a three week hospital stay I could see which way the wind was blowing. My reason for not posting at the time was because I was wacked out on pain meds.
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but the woman on the forum saw PW in a way that the men did not.
They seemed very much trying to ingratiate themselves with her but she showed an independent streak.
I think PW wishes she were accepted by the women here. I think it's a waste of time for her to post here. I would invite catherineofsienna to come back. Wallflower would do best to stay away from this forum.
As for Tiffany, I would ask her to be more cautious in her judgments.
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Didn't anyone notice that all of those who agreed with PW were male?
I had no problems with PW, thought she was a good addition to the forum, and am certainly not a man.
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but the woman on the forum saw PW in a way that the men did not.
They seemed very much trying to ingratiate themselves with her but she showed an independent streak.
I think PW wishes she were accepted by the women here. I think it's a waste of time for her to post here. I would invite catherineofsienna to come back. Wallflower would do best to stay away from this forum.
As for Tiffany, I would ask her to be more cautious in her judgments.
Tele,
If you would like I could PM you how I saw the thread play out.
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but the woman on the forum saw PW in a way that the men did not.
They seemed very much trying to ingratiate themselves with her but she showed an independent streak.
I think PW wishes she were accepted by the women here. I think it's a waste of time for her to post here. I would invite catherineofsienna to come back. Wallflower would do best to stay away from this forum.
As for Tiffany, I would ask her to be more cautious in her judgments.
Tele,
If you would like I could PM you how I saw the thread play out.
Sure.
PW is getting a lot of grief from her own friends and family for trying to become Traditionally Catholic.
It's rather sad that she's gotten such flack here.
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Didn't anyone notice that all of those who agreed with PW were male?
I had no problems with PW, thought she was a good addition to the forum, and am certainly not a man.
This is just what I was thinking. I like PW and I'm a woman. This is not a man/woman split. There are people of both sexes on both sides of this.
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Are you by chance a misogynist?
Because only misogynists see cattiness in a harsh light?
Tele, what you saw as cattiness, was probably rule number one or two on the playground. Takes one to know one. Didn't anyone notice that all of those who agreed with PW were male? I wouldn't suggest anyone read, Men are from Mars, Woman are from Venus, but the woman on the forum saw PW in a way that the men did not. I wouldn't suggest going back and reading all the posts in this thread to count how many males for PW and how many against, but while I was recovering from a three week hospital stay I could see which way the wind was blowing. My reason for not posting at the time was because I was wacked out on pain meds.
I am a lady and I defended PW all along.
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Are you by chance a misogynist?
Because only misogynists see cattiness in a harsh light?
Ouch.
What a revealing thread this has been!
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but the woman on the forum saw PW in a way that the men did not.
They seemed very much trying to ingratiate themselves with her but she showed an independent streak.
I think PW wishes she were accepted by the women here. I think it's a waste of time for her to post here. I would invite catherineofsienna to come back. Wallflower would do best to stay away from this forum.
As for Tiffany, I would ask her to be more cautious in her judgments.
Tele,
If you would like I could PM you how I saw the thread play out.
Sure.
PW is getting a lot of grief from her own friends and family for trying to become Traditionally Catholic.
It's rather sad that she's gotten such flack here.
Nobody here is giving her flack for becoming a traditional Catholic. This is false blame.
My response to her needing support would be to call a traditional priest. I have talked to several through the years and they all have been very caring, kind, supportive, and greatly encouraged me. I'm sure if there was one within a few hours of her home he would make a trip to meet her. We have already been through that though with her lying about meeting with a trad priest, and not only did she do that but she made up a story about people in the chapel. She came out with a half apology only because she was called out on it.
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We have already been through that though with her lying about meeting with a trad priest, and not only did she do that but she made up a story about people in the chapel. She came out with a half apology only because she was called out on it.
:shocked:
I haven't followed this very closely, but is this true?
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We have already been through that though with her lying about meeting with a trad priest, and not only did she do that but she made up a story about people in the chapel. She came out with a half apology only because she was called out on it.
:shocked:
I haven't followed this very closely, but is this true?
Everyone here was telling her to consult a priest.
She said she had scheduled and met with a CMRI priest when what she really did was meet with the NO priest who had recommended Tradition to her.
She relayed the things this priest had told her (such as find a different job ASAP), but attributed them to the CMRI priest.
I don't recall the "chapel stories", but something was said about the impesssion she had of her CMRI visit.
Someone here contacted the CMRI priest in her area who knew nothing of her.
She apologized for lying about the situation. I'm guessing the claim of "half apology" was her attributing her poor decisions to pressure received here, but I'd have to go back and read the apology to see.
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Mater you have it right. But I'd like to add that she was only just dipping her toe into Tradition, against her family, but being pressured to go full SV. She felt uneasy and guilty about it, so she talked to a trusted priest instead.
I don't condone lying, but what's more creepy is being called a predator, when it's borderline stalking to go check with a priest to see if she went there.
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I didn't read enough of her posts to form an opinion of her, because she posted on topics that didn't interest me. But I tend to trust the judgment of those who were defending her.
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Some of these women here are very interested in manipulating her. As it seems most of these trad women are - very interested in manipulating the females at their chapel, to control their choices. And they always resort to telling the woman to go to the priest to enforce their will.
Traditionalism has a very serious problem - the social life of the chapel has eclipsed the Faith in importance. The liberalizers in the SSPX are exploiting and aggravating this tendency to the full - contributing the cult-like atmosphere of these chapels.
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when it's borderline stalking to go check with a priest to see if she went there.
catherineofsienna, who's too embarrassed to post here, was mainly concerned in blackening the reputation of the men here as "woman haters" and of trads and trad men in general. And in getting her to a trad priest to be a substitute father/decisionmaker.
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Some of these women here are very interested in manipulating her.
The same could be said of a few men here too.
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Mater you have it right. But I'd like to add that she was only just dipping her toe into Tradition, against her family, but being pressured to go full SV. She felt uneasy and guilty about it, so she talked to a trusted priest instead.
I don't condone lying, but what's more creepy is being called a predator, when it's borderline stalking to go check with a priest to see if she went there.
I wanted to get the story summary up before we got a load of "spins", but I agree with you. Her behavior was not appropriate, but was nonetheless humanly understandable -- especially from someone new who was overwhelmed by the whole situation. It was a mistake; I don't believe it was anything more than that.
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Elizabeth I had her on ignore while the priest issue was being brought up, this was only one example of her deception. I brought it up now because it was applied to the situation of her supposedly not getting support. I saw deception in what she related as far as time and the stories that went with them. Secondly the views she states do not seem to be her own, they are very extreme, and other statements she makes do not support someone with those views. She devalues other women too.
Even after being called out and back peddling, she still attacks. IMO She is a predator appearing to be someone she is not and she is highly manipulative in various ways. When the threads don't go according to her narrative of her needing a husband or when her inconsistencies are called out, she attacks.
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Tiffany, please quit your whining about PW, it's annoying and people are getting sick of it. Your double standards - defending that immature troll Marcelino for lying by putting words in the mouths of others but chastising one individual who was wrong but did at least have the decency to apologise (unlike Marcelino) - are obvious, and they're not pretty. Please spare us your (repetitive) opinion on PW.
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Mater you have it right. But I'd like to add that she was only just dipping her toe into Tradition, against her family, but being pressured to go full SV. She felt uneasy and guilty about it, so she talked to a trusted priest instead.
I don't condone lying, but what's more creepy is being called a predator, when it's borderline stalking to go check with a priest to see if she went there.
I wanted to get the story summary up before we got a load of "spins", but I agree with you. Her behavior was not appropriate, but was nonetheless humanly understandable -- especially from someone new who was overwhelmed by the whole situation. It was a mistake; I don't believe it was anything more than that.
MD I disagree with you. She went so far to make a degrading comment about the imaginary people in the chapel.
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I'm not going to make excuses for lying, but phew, I don't have any illusions about women telling lies anymore - and I mean all those supposedly "normal" women out there - not someone like PW who has caused certain people to vent paranoia.
Women seem to be capable of lying like it was second nature.
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PW did something that was very regrettable in claiming to have spoken to the CMRI priest. However, I don't think her behavior in that regard was anything out of the ordinary. Even among "trad" women.
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PW did something that was very regrettable in claiming to have spoken to the CMRI priest. However, I don't think her behavior in that regard was anything out of the ordinary. Even among "trad" women.
That is not my experience of trad women Personally, I would not tell an outright falsehood. I want to be more honest and I've been working on getting rid of exaggerations and false impressions. Telling the truth is very important to me.
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Mater you have it right. But I'd like to add that she was only just dipping her toe into Tradition, against her family, but being pressured to go full SV. She felt uneasy and guilty about it, so she talked to a trusted priest instead.
I don't condone lying, but what's more creepy is being called a predator, when it's borderline stalking to go check with a priest to see if she went there.
I wanted to get the story summary up before we got a load of "spins", but I agree with you. Her behavior was not appropriate, but was nonetheless humanly understandable -- especially from someone new who was overwhelmed by the whole situation. It was a mistake; I don't believe it was anything more than that.
MD I disagree with you. She went so far to make a degrading comment about the imaginary people in the chapel.
Creating a thread, engaging people in it and carrying it on for days takes committment. There was zero pressure at that time. She even commented on the building looking "creepy". I mean there were details. That's committment to a story, not a quick act of poor judgment.
The pressure came on weeks later when the suzy homemaker stories with the claim of working outside the home literally every day and every night of the week started to add up outrageously.
Elizabeth, the person who verified this was very disturbed that PW may be a fake because that person had confided their own personals to her, ways in which they related and would not have shared with just anyone. My empathy goes to the person who was the true victim here, not the one lying and taking advantage of the other's good nature.
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This thread is very sparse on the alleged details PW is accused of making up about the CMRI chapel:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19621&min=0&num=5
She might well have intended to visit the CMRI priest, told people like catherineofsiena she would, but was too timid.
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People need to understand trad chapels are full of gossipy paranoids who go out of their way to torment others, and one of their main weapons is accusations of mental illness. Sometimes it is just misguided, but in reality many people in these chapels subconsciously want things to be that way. It allows them to control their environment. People who feel isolated from the larger society are extremely jealous of their social position in the little pond.
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Elizabeth I had her on ignore while the priest issue was being brought up, this was only one example of her deception. I brought it up now because it was applied to the situation of her supposedly not getting support. I saw deception in what she related as far as time and the stories that went with them. Secondly the views she states do not seem to be her own, they are very extreme, and other statements she makes do not support someone with those views. She devalues other women too.
Even after being called out and back peddling, she still attacks. IMO She is a predator appearing to be someone she is not and she is highly manipulative in various ways. When the threads don't go according to her narrative of her needing a husband or when her inconsistencies are called out, she attacks.
Ok, enough!
We're well aware you're not in the PW fan club. I don't see why this whole thing had to get stirred up again just because I banned Marcelino.
I still think you're going to have a lot to answer for, and you need to enter into yourself -- offline, in old-fashioned meditation -- about envy, jealousy, etc.
If you're indeed NOT envious, etc. it will be a surprise and a coincidence, because you're certainly acting like you are. You're acting like someone who DOES have envy -- sadness at the good of another. You have a less-than-ideal situation yourself, and you can't stand to watch a nice young lady perhaps end up with a husband, married in the Church, with a complete family life and probably more children.
Does that thought make you sad? I believe it does.
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I empathize with you fully.
...
I know that I will never set foot in a Catholic Church again because I cannot reconcile the incredible cruelty and yes, EVIL, of people who claim to hold The Truth to a God that is all Knowing, all Good, all Powerful... I've never encountered worse people and I don't believe I ever shall. I don't have the strength to claim that traditionalists are mostly "good" people -- they are not.
I am at peace when I stay away from them.
I'm so sorry that you feel that way. I am not evil.
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Elizabeth I had her on ignore while the priest issue was being brought up, this was only one example of her deception. I brought it up now because it was applied to the situation of her supposedly not getting support. I saw deception in what she related as far as time and the stories that went with them. Secondly the views she states do not seem to be her own, they are very extreme, and other statements she makes do not support someone with those views. She devalues other women too.
Even after being called out and back peddling, she still attacks. IMO She is a predator appearing to be someone she is not and she is highly manipulative in various ways. When the threads don't go according to her narrative of her needing a husband or when her inconsistencies are called out, she attacks.
Ok, enough!
We're well aware you're not in the PW fan club. I don't see why this whole thing had to get stirred up again just because I banned Marcelino.
I still think you're going to have a lot to answer for, and you need to enter into yourself -- offline, in old-fashioned meditation -- about envy, jealousy, etc.
If you're indeed NOT envious, etc. it will be a surprise and a coincidence, because you're certainly acting like you are. You're acting like someone who DOES have envy -- sadness at the good of another. You have a less-than-ideal situation yourself, and you can't stand to watch a nice young lady perhaps end up with a husband, married in the Church, with a complete family life and probably more children.
Does that thought make you sad? I believe it does.
Matthew, I was responding to Elizabeth's comment about the priest story checker as a stalker. My point was I saw deception before even knowing about the priest story.
The part about me being sad and envious, is silly. I respect that this is your forum, but I don't appreciate you telling me how I feel or what I can't stand.
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M was criticized for misusing the quote system, when PW did the same thing.
I do sign my posts in the anon forum, but when you quote from there, it shows up as guest. M was called out for allegedly manipulating quotes, but not PW? I did not state anything there I have not stated before, it doesn't matter, but PW did the same thing pages before him.
You're being ridiculous.
Filling in the name for an anonymous quote -- especially when that name was provided in the post itself -- is NOT the same as falsifying the quote itself!
I didn't ban Marcelino for "touching" the quotes, I banned him for maliciously distorting and changing the words of people's quotes -- putting words in people's mouths.
There is no rule against "summarizing" in a quote, taking out parts, adding bold or italics, or other incidental edits. The quotes are not some kind of sacred cow that can't be touched.
In short -- "Get real".
Marcelino actually put words in peoples' mouths. PW never did this.
Quit trying to defend the indefensible.
Exactly, Matthew.
That is how it really is.
Matthew, I really support the way you have defended PenitentWoman, who is a weak member of CathInfo.
Tiffany has been very dishonest.
Marcelino did not “allegedly” manipulate quotes. He openly falsified quotes by me, PW, Spiritus, and guitarplucker.
Matthew has banned Marcelino for lying and other faults.
So Tiffany has been blatantly dishonest by pretending this is merely “allegedly manipulating quotes”
Tiffany has falsely accused PW of misusing the quote system: “misusing the quote system, when PW did the same thing”
That is a wicked lie on the part of Tiffany. Tiffany has been very dishonest here.
Read PW’s posts. PW has not done this. It is simply untrue.
PW put Tiffany’s name before the post she quoted, to show that it was Tiffany’s post.
That is perfectly honest and acceptable behaviour.
Whereas Tiffany’s behaviour is neither honest nor acceptable.
Tiffany’s posts against PW are full of insults and untrue accusations.
Tiffany has been very dishonest about this.
I asked Tiffany to condemn Marcelino’s dishonesty.
Instead, Tiffany defended Marcelino, and then Tiffany also lied about PenitentWoman.
Wallflower has also lied about PW in this thread.
Wallflower has been banned from CathInfo before, because of her vile conduct towards Tele.
Wallflower delights in ruining people’s good names with lies.
Tiffany and wallflower have both lied about PenitentWoman.
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One could reasonably say about PenitentWoman, is that after she was treated disgustingly here by sadistic Feminists, she concealed the fact that she had gone to a novus ordo priest instead of to a CMRI priest.
Regrettable, but not unforgivable by any means.
As Mater said:
...Everyone here was telling her to consult a priest.
And
I wanted to get the story summary up before we got a load of "spins", but I agree with you. Her behavior was not appropriate, but was nonetheless humanly understandable -- especially from someone new who was overwhelmed by the whole situation. It was a mistake; I don't believe it was anything more than that.
Exactly, Mater.
God Bless you, Mater, for putting it how it is.
PenitentWoman came here for traditional Catholicism.
But Feminist so-called Catholic women cruelly tormented PW.
PenitentWoman was horrifically bullied by Feminists until the poor girl went back to the novus ordo.
Then PW wanted to get some privacy, and tried to hide the fact she had not gone to the CMRI less than a week later.
So instead of visiting the CMRI, she went back to the novus ordo.
PW was driven away from tradition by the hostility of these bullies here.
Then she tried to hide the fact that she had visited the novus ordo priest instead.
Poor PW was persecuted by so-called traditional Catholics, which drove her back to the novus ordo.
Then her persecutors blamed her for trying to hide it !!!!!
PW has been far more open about her life than almost anyone on CathInfo.
She has told us a lot about herself, and about her housework, canning, baby-sitting, etc. She did not tell us about visiting the Novus Ordo man, and made out that he was CMRI.
That was after all these people started to persecute her, about things that she had been truthful about.
After being cruelly tormented herer, little PW wanted to keep some things private.
So she hid about not visiting the CMRI priest.
That would not have happened without the bullying by these Feminists.
It is very possible that if these cruel Feminists were pressured about their private lives, they would lie their heads off.
PW has the same right to privacy that they have.
But they have violated her right to privacy out of malice.
I have never seen anyone put under this kind of pressure to tell private details about their personal life before.
I have never seen anything like this on CathInfo before.
No wonder she became furtive and wanted to hide things.
Who can blame her for that?
And who can blame her for not wanting to disclose the name of the priest that she goes to for advice, to aggressive strangers on the internet?
Especially to people who obviously wish her harm.
She has been tormented here in a way that is inexcusable.
She only made out that that man was not Novus Ordo, and was the other one after people had tormented and persecuted her.
And she was obviously frightened that she would also be picked on over returning to the Novus Ordo.
So she hid the truth. That would not have happened without the bullying she received here.
If these cruel Feminists had left her alone, none of that would have happened.
She was driven away from traditional Catholicism by what she went through at the hands of these bullying Feminists.
She has a right to privacy. That right has been wickedly violated.
PW is brave young Catholic girl.
PW did not tell us about visiting the Novus Ordo man, and made out that he was CMRI.
That was after all these people started to persecute her, about things that she had been truthful about.
Then she wanted to keep some things private.
So she hid the truth.
That would not have happened without the bullying by these Feminists.
So these Feminist bullies are to blame for PW trying to hide about going to that Novus Ordo man instead of to the CMRI.
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Matthew has had to repeatedly rebuke Tiffany about Tiffany's bullying of PenitentWoman:
...
Ok, enough!
We're well aware you're not in the PW fan club. I don't see why this whole thing had to get stirred up again just because I banned Marcelino.
I still think you're going to have a lot to answer for, and you need to enter into yourself -- offline, in old-fashioned meditation -- about envy, jealousy, etc.
If you're indeed NOT envious, etc. it will be a surprise and a coincidence, because you're certainly acting like you are. You're acting like someone who DOES have envy -- sadness at the good of another. You have a less-than-ideal situation yourself, and you can't stand to watch a nice young lady perhaps end up with a husband, married in the Church, with a complete family life and probably more children.
Does that thought make you sad? I believe it does.
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for stating the real reasons for Tiffany’s actions.
PenitentWoman had six real bullies here.
Marcelino was banned, two others have left, Thorn has stopped.
Only Tiffany and wallflower have still continued.
Many Forum moderators would have taken the easy option and just let things slide.
But, instead, you stuck up for the innocent party - PenitentWoman.
I said that you are a good moderator.
You are also a good man.
God Bless you, Matthew.
Yours, Sede Catholic.
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It is a wicked shame that Feminists cruelly bullied and persecuted PenitentWoman, who is a good Catholic girl.
I hope that, somehow, goodness prevails here.
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Drop it already!
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In the last four posts on this thread I have read several calumnies. (not counting the post by CS who slid one in while I was proofing reading.) Since when does spreading untruths and attempting to ruin reputations fly on CI?
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I really do not want to see anyone else banned over my exit post. Yes, it hurts horribly to be called names, but God knows the truth, and I will have accept that as enough. Anger is terribly damaging to a person's soul.
God Bless.
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I really do not want to see anyone else banned over my exit post. Yes, it hurts horribly to be called names, but God knows the truth, and I will have accept that as enough. Anger is terribly damaging to a person's soul.
God Bless.
You are very kind. It's not your fault that others have been banned. Matthew made clear the reason for the bans.
God Bless.
Visit the Blessed Sacrament regularly and always pay homage to Our Lady!
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Elizabeth I had her on ignore while the priest issue was being brought up, this was only one example of her deception. I brought it up now because it was applied to the situation of her supposedly not getting support. I saw deception in what she related as far as time and the stories that went with them. Secondly the views she states do not seem to be her own, they are very extreme, and other statements she makes do not support someone with those views. She devalues other women too.
Even after being called out and back peddling, she still attacks. IMO She is a predator appearing to be someone she is not and she is highly manipulative in various ways. When the threads don't go according to her narrative of her needing a husband or when her inconsistencies are called out, she attacks.
Ok, enough!
We're well aware you're not in the PW fan club. I don't see why this whole thing had to get stirred up again just because I banned Marcelino.
I still think you're going to have a lot to answer for, and you need to enter into yourself -- offline, in old-fashioned meditation -- about envy, jealousy, etc.
If you're indeed NOT envious, etc. it will be a surprise and a coincidence, because you're certainly acting like you are. You're acting like someone who DOES have envy -- sadness at the good of another. You have a less-than-ideal situation yourself, and you can't stand to watch a nice young lady perhaps end up with a husband, married in the Church, with a complete family life and probably more children.
Does that thought make you sad? I believe it does.
Please Tiffany, let it go.
Maybe Matthew's wrong about you, but he does have a point, you are acting in a terrible manner. Just let it go, please. Matthew is generally spot on about people.
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I think you'll be making your exit from this forum.
You're pretty clueless as to context here.
PW is fond of this forum and its management.
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I'm with you PW...boo hoo says Roman55 wahhhh :barf:
From someone with average 2 posts per day contributing to the very thing complaining about. Hypocrite.
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Do you have brain damage?
Bishop Williamson has personally approved of CathInfo, and we both get along just fine. True, some people might not know that, but you should at least be able to figure out that he would never say anything bad about CathInfo -- because of the OBVIOUS fact that CathInfo is a +W support haven.
The only "trad Catholic priests" who badmouth CathInfo are those who have sold out their principles and compromised themselves -- usually following orders from above.
Seriously, did your dog die tonight or something? I haven't even seen posts from you lately. And if you read PW's farewell post, you can clearly see she doesn't hold anything against CathInfo.
Is this some pathetic attempt to curry favor with PW? I guess we need to start a "singles" section or something if that's the case, if the young men are going THAT insane...
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I really do not want to see anyone else banned over my exit post. Yes, it hurts horribly to be called names, but God knows the truth, and I will have accept that as enough. Anger is terribly damaging to a person's soul.
God Bless.
PW, yes it does hurt to be called names and God does know the truth, but we must always keep in mind that nothing ever happens without God's approval. If for a time God wants us to hurt emotionally, we must learn to accept it. As for myself, I work very hard at accepting God's will. Face it, as humans we want it our way! Learning it has to be God's way is a hard lesson indeed.
I can't agree with you that anger is terribly damaging to a person's soul. If it wasn't for the anger of the parents and strangers at the physical appearance of Blessed Margaret of Castello she would probably never have spent the rest of her life in prayer completely dedicated to Our Lord.
She was born a hunchback, a midget, blind, lame and ugly. Her parents who were of noble blood kept her imprisoned, walled up beside a chapel. She could not get out, but could attend Mass and receive the sacraments, no one could possibly see her. Her only human contact was a few servants and a priest.
She was never once angry. Not at her parents who abandoned her at the age of 14 and never at God who made her the way she was.
She became a lay Dominican and helped the townspeople who had provided her with food and shelter.
When others direct anger at me, I keep in mind the anger directed at our Lord during His Passion; and look how good that anger was for our souls.
Ad Jesu per Mariam
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After following this thread and watching it get hijacked I want to thank Tele, Sede, Mathew and everyone else that staunchly defended PW. It was very sad to watch a good intentioned thread get turned into a tribunal against the very one who created it.
Part of me hesitates to post on this thread for fear that by bumping it up PWs reputation could be potentially damaged because of so many false and harsh accusations against her throughout its 90+ pages. However, I was not sure where else to post my thanks to the people above and I thought it very much due.
PW: You and your daughter are in my prayers. May you be graced with perseverance and peace of soul. I would pray that you might have courage or an increase of conviction, but your family has turned against you because of the courage you have had in standing for those convictions. You embraced traditional Catholicism and femininity as you could --- or at the very least you have been docile to traditionalism; you voluntarily joined a traditional Catholic forum, you have suffered mockery, persecution ( from friends and people on this forum), and I am sure you have endured many more things. PW, you are very courageous and have put many of us converts to shame. When the devil sees one of his slaves trying to get away, remember, he does everything in his power to bring that soul back under his frightful dominion. These crosses that siege you in both your soul and your daily life will pass in due time. For those few that remain with you -- you will be given the strength to endure them with peace.
:) Thank you PW for your brave example on this forum. Some may try to argue against this with previous faults but perhaps they would do well to remember Our Lord and the casting of the first stone. :) We are all human and all weak. May God bless you.
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Oh, it should be **Matthew.