Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: MaterDominici on January 31, 2015, 01:37:55 PM
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Does anyone here teach Latin to their children?
At what age to you begin?
What books or program do you use?
We just attempted to start using a very basic program called Song School Latin, but the pronunciation is frequently inconsistent or incorrect.
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I haven't used this myself, but this seems to be very well reviewed on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Latin-Homeschoolers-Self-Taught/dp/0979505100/
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Prima Latina / Lingua Angelica / Latina Christiana
From Our Lady of Victory:
http://www.olvs.org/shopcart/InvList.aspx?a=33
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I use Memoria Press Prima Latina starting at around 7, whenever they read English fluently. I am using it with my oldest grandson now.
It has pronunciation CDs but I don't use them. I don't like their accent.
I find it really helps to have the children learn their basic prayers in Latin. They can memorize them without a detailed understanding. Then, as we learn grammar and vocabulary, we go back over the prayers and see how it fits. Memoria Press is a Christian (though not explicitly Catholic) publisher so they introduce a lot of the prayer vocabulary.
This is the same thing that Cantarella linked to.
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I'm actually thinking I might like to find a Latin class for myself.
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I use Memoria Press Prima Latina starting at around 7, whenever they read English fluently. I am using it with my oldest grandson now.
It has pronunciation CDs but I don't use them. I don't like their accent.
Do you know if they have samples of the audio? I don't think I'd attempt anything that doesn't have audio pronunciation since I don't know much Latin myself. The only reason I concluded that the program we were doing wasn't very good was that they were inconsistent.
For example: magistra, in the song they'd pronounce it mah-jee-stra and on the pronunciation CD they'd say mah-gee-stra (with g like goat).
Lad, any chance I can talk you into downloading the audio files from the book you linked to and giving me your 2c on their pronunciation? I'm of course looking for a program that does a good job with ecclesiastical pronunciation.
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I use Memoria Press as well.
We start Prima Latina around second grade, at the beginning of the year or midway, really whenever the child is reading well enough to read the simple vocabulary. I help them with the workbook, I don't write for them but I am there to read directions. We spend 5-15 minutes each day, working at the pace of the student.
After Prima Latina is done we move on to Latina Christiana I. Also done at a student's pace. One child has stretched this over two years, and is a great Latin student, possibly even better than my speedy Latin child. I would say the range would be third-fourth grade here. Again, 5-15 minutes per day, or more if you buy enrichment materials.
Next we do the First Form Series. I think this series is excellent and much better than where the Latina Chrisitana books were going. There is ample practice and the text is not cartoony or colorful (I'm all about business). I also allow us to go at the student's pace, however, I've noticed that my students really are on a roll with Latin at this point. They get it. I'd say that it takes 15-25 minutes to complete, maybe more if review is necessary.
I am satisfied with Memoria's materials and will continue. I don't purchase the DVD but every once in a great while I might listen to the PL or LC CDs to hear a word, usually words with "q" in them. I don't think their pronunciation is wonderful but my ears are spoiled by going to mass in a small room with a priest whose Latin was flawless for many years.
I'm considering having my oldest take the National Latin Exam this year or next year.
Personally, I would never consider not teaching Latin. If we are busy, we always finish at least Latin and math every day. It is important for us as Catholics and for the development of the mind.
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I use Memoria Press Prima Latina starting at around 7, whenever they read English fluently. I am using it with my oldest grandson now.
It has pronunciation CDs but I don't use them. I don't like their accent.
Do you know if they have samples of the audio? I don't think I'd attempt anything that doesn't have audio pronunciation since I don't know much Latin myself. The only reason I concluded that the program we were doing wasn't very good was that they were inconsistent.
For example: magistra, in the song they'd pronounce it mah-jee-stra and on the pronunciation CD they'd say mah-gee-stra (with g like goat).
They do have a lot of sample pages on their website but I don't think they have any audio. They pronounce it with a Southern US accent which just seems strange with Latin. I keep waiting for them to say "Salvete, y'all."
The inconsistency you are describing looks like they are combining ecclesiastical pronunciation (the first one) with classical (the second). That would be bad.
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I use Memoria Press Prima Latina starting at around 7, whenever they read English fluently. I am using it with my oldest grandson now.
It has pronunciation CDs but I don't use them. I don't like their accent.
Do you know if they have samples of the audio? I don't think I'd attempt anything that doesn't have audio pronunciation since I don't know much Latin myself. The only reason I concluded that the program we were doing wasn't very good was that they were inconsistent.
For example: magistra, in the song they'd pronounce it mah-jee-stra and on the pronunciation CD they'd say mah-gee-stra (with g like goat).
They do have a lot of sample pages on their website but I don't think they have any audio. They pronounce it with a Southern US accent which just seems strange with Latin. I keep waiting for them to say "Salvete, y'all."
The inconsistency you are describing looks like they are combining ecclesiastical pronunciation (the first one) with classical (the second). That would be bad.
Teaching kids Latin is very important. the benefits are immeasurable.
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I have long disagreed with the customary/classical method for teaching Latin where you memorize lists of inflections (declensions, conjugations, etc.). It's an unnatural method for leaning a language, does not lead to fluency, and is certainly not conducive to the minds of younger children. There's a lady from Christendom College who put together a more natural learning method, but I can't find it all of a sudden. I had intended to do something similar years ago but never managed to get around to it. That's why Latin had been deemed inaccessible to students before 7th grade or so. But I'm sure that Roman children were quite fluent in it well before then, eh?
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Since very few of us speak Latin so well that it can be our everyday language at home, we do not have the option of our children learning it as Roman children did.
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Since very few of us speak Latin so well that it can be our everyday language at home, we do not have the option of our children learning it as Roman children did.
No, not in the sense of immersion, but rather via a natural progression.
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
no, but double vowels have a pronunciation that is longer in duration
for example in "tuum" the length of the pronunciation of the u is similar to the a'a in ma'am.
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Since very few of us speak Latin so well that it can be our everyday language at home, we do not have the option of our children learning it as Roman children did.
I went to confession in Latin one time.
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
no, but double vowels have a pronunciation that is longer in duration
for example in "tuum" the length of the pronunciation of the u is similar to the a'a in ma'am.
It is not a longer u, but two "u's" both pronounced, as tu-um.
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
no, but double vowels have a pronunciation that is longer in duration
for example in "tuum" the length of the pronunciation of the u is similar to the a'a in ma'am.
It is not a longer u, but two "u's" both pronounced, as tu-um.
That is the same as the double a in ma'am
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Since very few of us speak Latin so well that it can be our everyday language at home, we do not have the option of our children learning it as Roman children did.
No, not in the sense of immersion, but rather via a natural progression.
When I was a child, we had friendly neighbours who spoke Latin at home and we used to visit them. They had 3 children, the youngest a girl of my age with two older brothers. The father was a judge and the mother a university lecturer (I think).
Yes, Ladi, you start off with "Pater, please pass the peanut butter", and then gradually use new words as they are acquired. After "Grace before meals" in Latin, of course.
http://rickmk.com/rmk/Latin/grace.html
Sign of the Cross and Grace Before Meals
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.
in name of-Father and of-Son and of-Spirit Holy
Benedic, Domine, nos et haec tua dona
Bless Lord us and these Your gifts
quae de tua largitate sumus sumpturi
which from Your bounty we-are about-to-receive
per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
through Christ Lord our Amen
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
no, but double vowels have a pronunciation that is longer in duration
for example in "tuum" the length of the pronunciation of the u is similar to the a'a in ma'am.
It is not a longer u, but two "u's" both pronounced, as tu-um.
That is the same as the double a in ma'am
Not being an American, I don't use the word ma'am. But I've always heard it pronounced mam, never ma-am. I could be wrong though.
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Since very few of us speak Latin so well that it can be our everyday language at home, we do not have the option of our children learning it as Roman children did.
No, not in the sense of immersion, but rather via a natural progression.
The Memoria press site has some articles on the theory of teaching Latin. This one is an overview of the three main - teaching methods (http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/3-methods-teaching-latin)
This is a more detailed critique of the - natural method (http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/history-natural-method-teaching-latin)
I think that natural method would be very difficult to use by a teacher who does not have a thorough knowledge of Latin. Even if it were theoretically a good method, I can't see it being practical for most homeschoolers.
I think a more realistic way to introduce "natural" Latin is to have children learn their prayers in Latin and be very familiar with the Mass. If one wants more than this, the MP Lingua Angelica program teaches Latin hymns.
That being said, I use Lingua Latina (info here (http://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Latina-Illustrata-Pars-Familia/dp/1585104205)), which is designed for the natural method, as supplementary reading with the Memoria Press materials at middle school age.
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
no, but double vowels have a pronunciation that is longer in duration
for example in "tuum" the length of the pronunciation of the u is similar to the a'a in ma'am.
It is not a longer u, but two "u's" both pronounced, as tu-um.
That is the same as the double a in ma'am
Not being an American, I don't use the word ma'am. But I've always heard it pronounced mam, never ma-am. I could be wrong though.
I have always heard "tuum" the way that you do it and pronounce it that way myself.
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Yes, Ladi, you start off with "Pater, please pass the peanut butter", and then gradually use new words as they are acquired. After "Grace before meals" in Latin, of course.
My youngest son (age 13) has lately started calling me Mater.
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Here is a link to some prayers in French and Latin that you should recognize. It says that these are prayers that every Christian should know by heart.
http://rmitte.free.fr/prier/priefond.htm#Confiteor Deo omnipotenti
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A random Latin question for those who know:
Do vowels in ecclesiastical Latin have more than one sound (short / long)?
no, [....]
Too perfect! I can't think of a better choice for someone to emerge from the Novus Ordo smoke-of-Satan, and then provide readers with the wrong answer.
Which is not to claim that it makes him unique among the Novus Ordo faithful: According to reports, even that guy garbed in white in Vatican City nowadays has shown that he does not have a useful level of skill with Latin.
[...] but double vowels have a pronunciation that is longer in duration for example in "tuum" the length of the pronunciation of the u is similar to the a'a in ma'am.
It is not a longer u, but two "u's " both pronounced, as tu-um.
That is the same as the double a in ma'am
Ecclesiastical Latin does indeed have vowels whose sounds are distinguished as short versus long. And ironically, that's exemplified by the 4-letter word that's already been offered, albeit for the wrong reason. The sounds of the 2 'u' in ecclesiastical Latin "tū-um" are significantly different (from each other), the word being pronounced approximately as "too'-(w)uhm", thus the 1st vowel being ' ū ' (i.e.: long), and the 2nd vowel being ' ŭ ' (i.e.: short).-   That's in contrast to "tuh'-uhm in classical Latin, in which both vowels are short.
So a correct answer about Latin should be credited to 'Nadir'.
As for the pronunciation of the English contraction "ma d am", it almost certainly exhibits U.S.-regional differences. E.g., in the Deep South, it's more like "mah'-yahm" or "mah'-yuhm", where the vowel sounds shown as "ah" in this instance are approximately the sound of the Old-English letter 'æ', which is exemplified by the (letter's) name in modern English: "ash".
Note *: I trust that the computers at CathInfo Hq., and those of other established members of CathInfo, have already been equipped with fonts that're able to display what've been called the Pan-European characters of the Universal Character Set a.k.a. Unicode. Textbooks for Latin were one of the reasons compelling the inclusion of Latin-alphabet vowelsprecomposed with the breve (short-sign) and the macron (long-sign).
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A pronunciation guide for anyone interested.