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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 01:58:08 PM

Title: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 01:58:08 PM
Hello everyone. I wanted to talk about the other forum, Suscipe Domine. For the past year I have been posting there more than here. But I never stopped reading this forum. For a while I was upset over all of the flat-earth discussions and was tired of sedevacantism debates on Cathinfo so I started posting more at Suscipe Domine than here. Members come and go between the forums. I see Jayne used to post more on SD but now she posts more here. I have seen Stubborn post both here then there. And Cantarella has posted on both forums. Greg used to post here and debate Telesphorus but he was banned years ago. Now he is one of SD's most prominent posters. I am sure there are many others. At first I thought SD was too liberal, but in posting there I have found it is a mixed bag, though generally more liberal than Cathinfo. As far as moderators go, I prefer Matthew to Kaesekopf. I prefer the beliefs about cօռspιʀαcιҽs on Cathinfo (except for flat-earth and Michelle Obama is really a man) and I prefer the Cathinfo stance on the Jєωιѕн question. About the resistance versus the SSPX, I still attend my SSPX chapel. There is supposedly a resistance Mass available sometime two hours away, but it is secretive and the Mass is not public and I have no one to drive me that far. I am not against the resistance but I have not given up on the SPPX either, perhaps out of necessity. I think there is a general consensus on SD that most of us over here at Cathinfo are nutters. I have never been among this crowd as I am A "Hero Member" with over 5 thousand posts here and only a "Vizekorporal" with a little over 2 hundred posts there. I have found my time there pleasant. But I think I am on the right wing of the forum there while here I am more in the middle.

There are some good members there. I recommend Maximilian who I wish would post more. He is a veteran traditional Catholic forum poster going back well over a decade. He used to post on different forums that closed down like Ignis Ardens. I don't know if he ever posted on Cathinfo. But he has interesting ideas. He seems sympathetic to the Old Catholics and does not believe in Papal Infallibility and is sympathetic to the Jansenists. I like him even though he has unique ideas and he was once described on this forum as the best traditional Catholic poster on the internet. Michael Wilson is a nice Sedevacantist who posts there. I liked christulsa who has a blog I liked but he is taking a year-long hiatus from posting there. There are other good posters as well. But my favorite poster is named Pon de Replay. He does not like the pop song that shares his user-name but he took it as a joke and despises the song. He is my favorite poster on any of the forums and I always look forward to seeing his posts and sending him private messages and reading his blog where he posts his fiction. Sometimes I only go to the forum to talk with Pon de Replay and hope to see his new posts. But he apostatized! He is no longer a Christian of any kind. He used to be fond of the Church Fathers but now he does not believe. But I still love him. I started praying for him every day when I learned he was no longer a Christian. There are other posters as well. But those are my favorites.

But now I may start posting here more. I am a little weary of SD and of forums in general as I have been on them for eight years, but I like the ability to speak to other traditional Catholics so I plan on continuing talking on them for now at least. I have been writing on my private blogs but I am always afraid of sharing my blogs with other people. I may make one of my blogs invitation only and let some of my friends read it, but I am afraid of sharing. But as for SD it is worth looking at even if only for Pon and Max. Those are my thoughts on SD.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Jaynek on June 06, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
I too am in a stage of feeling weary of forums.  I have been seriously contemplating dropping out completely, although I have not figured out how to do it. 

I agree about Maximilian and Michael Wilson being excellent posters.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 02:24:01 PM
To be a good Traditional Catholic you have to be willing to be called a "nutter". Or else you end up like the neo-SSPX, striving to appear mainstream, worldly, sane by the world's standards, etc.

Either you believe the Church was infiltrated by Freemasons (a conspiracy, and a secret society) or not. If you don't believe such, you will end up Conservative Novus Ordo at best, but not Traditional Catholic.

Traditional Catholics believe in being apart from the world, considered strange/backwards/dinosaur/nutter/etc. and consider it a badge of honor and orthodoxy.

Let's face it: not only our liturgical sensibilities (Mass in Latin), but also our practices of piety, our morality (large families? homeschooling?), our dress, our priorities, and many other things set us apart from the World, whether we like it or not. Being Traditional Catholic is not very PC. We generally expect our women to stay home (give up any "hope" of a "career") and raise our many children. Do you think the World is ever going to respect that?

And that's not all: the gulf between Catholic sanity and The Modern World is getting wider, not narrower. Lately they've developed the gender spectrum and in Canada they require professors to use each student's "preferred pronoun" even if that pronoun is an artificial, made-up word!

Better to embrace the term "nutter" -- get it over with -- and more easily save your soul, I say. Sloughing off the shackles of Political Correctness and Worldly Esteem is quite liberating. The Modern World is against Christ and controlled by тαℓмυdic Jєωs and Freemasons anyhow, so I want no part with it. The World loves abortion (infanticide) for crying out loud! Just listen to "The World"'s reaction to the recent Irish referendum approving abortion. Young ladies cheering like they won $50,000. Because now little babies can be legally killed right here in Ireland! Like I said: stop, World, I want to get off.

I could go on for paragraphs for what The World wants for you and I. sɛҳuąƖ license, marrying late, birth control, having 2 kids, a 30 year mortgage, put lots of time (both husband AND wife) into career and money, send kids to public school (and a connecting series of camps every Summer), a divorce or two, fulfill your bucket list, and then end up in Hell for eternity.

No thanks! I spit on that course of action. Perhaps some other things as well, but I'll leave it at "spit".



Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 02:31:13 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 02:24:01 PM
To be a good Traditional Catholic you have to be willing to be called a "nutter". Or else you end up like the neo-SSPX, striving to appear mainstream, worldly, sane by the world's standards, etc.

Better to embrace the term "nutter" -- get it over with -- and more easily save your soul, I say. Sloughing off the shackles of Political Correctness and Worldly Esteem is quite liberating.
Yes. I agree with this. I embraced the term "nutter" myself the first time I heard Greg call Telesphorus that. Or perhaps it was SSS. Actually I forget who Greg called "nutter", but when he did I was like "Yes. I am a nutter too." Greg does have a way with words.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Jaynek on June 06, 2018, 02:43:08 PM
The world is what's insane.  Traditional Catholicism is the last stronghold of reason.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Banezian on June 06, 2018, 03:40:19 PM
The way of thinking and discussions on this forum are far better than those on forums like CAF and FishEaters. No better place for Trads to discourse  on the net right now.  This place does tend to be fairly alarmist when it comes to  the SSPX, but that's to be expected( as this is a forum of the Resistance ) 
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 06, 2018, 04:13:34 PM
Ggreg's the nutter. He's a Steve Sailer'esque type. They're a dime a dozen, if you have any familiarity with the kosher TakiMag/Unz crowd, bombarding you with minutiae and side-tracking tactics. He wrote an idiotic article for DailyCatholic on the one-year anniversary of 9/11 trying to manipulate trads into going into the Middle East for the Jєωs. It says all you need to know about SD that he's the most popular member over there.

This forum has gone downhill a bit in terms of quality of participants, but it's still the best trad Catholic forum I've come across. And it's been the best since it was started by Matthew after he'd been banned (or left, I forget which) by VoxClamantis. i had high hopes for the first ABLF forum, but it got really weird over there with DawnMarie and her gang.

There's been a drain of interesting members here. You used to have people like like Telesphorus, claudel, Raoul (as nutty as he was at times), columba, spouseofjesus, gladius veritatis, PilgrimageofGrace (who mainly posted on IgnisArdens), ServusSpiritus (who I haven't heard about since he abandoned the first ABLF forum), belloc, stevusmagnus, caminus, btnyc, graham, sedetrad, perejoseph, Charlemagne, Iuvenalis, partyisover221, Ethelred,  Mark79, JohnGrey, and many other quality members who weren't as prolific.

There must be some change in the zeitgeist to account for the bulk of these people no longer being here. I've read Graham on SuscipeDomine say that he's put off by the proliferation of flat-earthers.

PonDeReplay was Gilgamesh over on Fisheaters. He's always been interesting to read, but he's a bit of an actor like VetusOrdo. I never thought he was a believer.

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 06, 2018, 04:48:23 PM
.
This is a first for me, seeing this announced. I suspect I wouldn't hear a priest say this from the pulpit:
.
Quote
Either you believe the Church was infiltrated by Freemasons (a conspiracy, and a secret society) or not.
If you don't believe such, you will end up Conservative Novus Ordo at best, but not Traditional Catholic.
.
This implies that to be a Traditional Catholic you are first of all required to find out what it means to be a Freemason.
Otherwise, "believing the Church was infiltrated by Freemasons" wouldn't have any foundation.
IOW to believe such a thing without comprehension of the term would mean you don't know what you believe.
Can you imagine being a patriotic American without having any knowledge of world history?
Or having a job as an airline navigator while believing the earth is "flat?" -- Maybe that's a bad example!
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Merely reducing it to, "I believe the Church has been invaded by a conspiracy, a secret society," is insufficient, IMHO.
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I know fairly solid Traditional Catholics who don't know much about Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and avoid finding out about them.
Does that mean they're going to lose their faith some day? Or that their Traditionalism is some kind of facade or game?
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As an aside, it would be refreshing for a change to see CI posts focusing on issues rather than on persons or perceived character of persons. It would be nice to see certain members leaving behind the bad habit of turning every conversation they touch into an exercise in talebearing.
 
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: rum on June 06, 2018, 04:13:34 PM
There's been a drain of interesting members here. You used to have people like like Telesphorus, claudel, Raoul (as nutty as he was at times), columba, spouseofjesus, gladius veritatis, PilgrimageofGrace (who mainly posted on IgnisArdens), ServusSpiritus (who I haven't heard about since he abandoned the first ABLF forum), belloc, stevusmagnus, caminus, btnyc, graham, sedetrad, perejoseph, Charlemagne, Iuvenalis, partyisover221, Ethelred,  Mark79, JohnGrey, and many other quality members who weren't as prolific.

There must be some change in the zeitgeist to account for the bulk of these people no longer being here. I've read Graham on SuscipeDomine say that he's put off by the proliferation of flat-earthers.

1. Most of those people stopped posting for their own personal reasons. Most of those members you listed were not banned -- you can look each of them up if you want.

2. CathInfo is basically a microcosm of the Trad movement. The things you hate about Trads you're going to find on CI. The things you love about Trads you'll find on CI as well. Trads fail in charity, apostatize, go off the deep end, join personality cults or actual cults, have personal problems, leave for the Novus Ordo, etc. all the time -- so it stands to reason that CathInfo would experience that with some of its members. I know of several CI members who went back to the Novus Ordo, after experiencing the full package of Catholic Tradition for months or years. (That one reallly blows my mind.)

Ethelred jumped ship on his own because he stayed a bit too long on the Pfeiffer train. When I started defending +Williamson and +Zendejas from the lies coming from Boston, KY back in Nov 2014, that necessarily involved a falling-out with Fr. Pfeiffer and all those who insisted on supporting him. I think around a dozen Pfeifferites/Pablo supporters were banned at the time.

3. CathInfo is also nothing more/less than A) the moderator and his rules and B) the members who come and go almost constantly. So the subtotal of "what is CathInfo" changes from year to year because of B). When member X and Y leave, all the threads they loved and topics they obsessed about are going to take a lower place. The whole tenor of the forum might change, just with the advent of one or two members, or the departure of one or two members.

Like the Texas weather, "If you don't like CathInfo today, come back in a month or two and it will be different." (with the Texas weather, it's more like an hour or two)
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat on June 06, 2018, 04:48:23 PM
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Does that mean they're going to lose their faith some day? Or that their Traditionalism is some kind of facade or game?
It means their Traditional status, or their resistance to Vatican II, is on shaky footing.
Eventually the allure of the 2000 year old Roman Catholic Church, its impressive buildings, its Papacy, and the Catholic virtue of Obedience will get them.

I've heard many people say that when you visit Rome, seeing all the large impressive churches it is very tempting to give up your Trad card and "come back home" to the Catholic Church.
Many have done so after a trip to Rome.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: TxTrad on June 06, 2018, 04:56:25 PM
Quote from: Jaynek on June 06, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
 I have been seriously contemplating dropping out completely, although I have not figured out how to do it.  
Cold turkey.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 05:00:31 PM
Quote from: TxTrad on June 06, 2018, 04:56:25 PM
Cold turkey.
Check into a detox center first; they can administer drugs to deal with the withdrawal symptoms.

I would also recommend joining a 12-step support group afterwards.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 06, 2018, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 04:51:54 PM
It means their Traditional status, or their resistance to Vatican II, is on shaky footing.
Eventually the allure of the 2000 year old Roman Catholic Church, its impressive buildings, its Papacy, and the Catholic virtue of Obedience will get them.

I've heard many people say that when you visit Rome, seeing all the large impressive churches it is very tempting to give up your Trad card and "come back home" to the Catholic Church.
Many have done so after a trip to Rome.
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Thanks for the clarification. I'm beginning to see what you mean better here. I know several Catholics who took trips to Rome or Medjugorje or Jerusalem, and came back convinced they had a life-changing experience. And it wasn't toward Traditional Catholicism! 
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Perhaps this is related, I don't know, but I had a very interesting encounter with a present-day architect who had nothing but contempt for traditional designs; when I asked him about certain specific details and grand concepts prevalent in St. Peter's Basilica, he told me that's exactly what he despises and has an abiding distaste for and wants nothing to do with it. He told me that an architectural style that attempts to convey the greatness of God and man's reliance on His grandeur is the worst thing any architect could do to a public building. So that whole principle of being "converted" to Newchurch was entirely lost on him. 
Maybe you could say it's not a "magic bullet" kind of thing. Might ricochet. 
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
Quote from: rum on June 06, 2018, 04:13:34 PM
This forum has gone downhill a bit in terms of quality of participants, but it's still the best trad Catholic forum I've come across. And it's been the best since it was started by Matthew after he'd been banned (or left, I forget which) by VoxClamantis. i had high hopes for the first ABLF forum, but it got really weird over there with DawnMarie and her gang.

There's been a drain of interesting members here. You used to have people like like Telesphorus, claudel, Raoul (as nutty as he was at times), columba, spouseofjesus, gladius veritatis, PilgrimageofGrace (who mainly posted on IgnisArdens), ServusSpiritus (who I haven't heard about since he abandoned the first ABLF forum), belloc, stevusmagnus, caminus, btnyc, graham, sedetrad, perejoseph, Charlemagne, Iuvenalis, partyisover221, Ethelred,  Mark79, JohnGrey, and many other quality members who weren't as prolific.

There must be some change in the zeitgeist to account for the bulk of these people no longer being here. I've read Graham on SuscipeDomine say that he's put off by the proliferation of flat-earthers.

PonDeReplay was Gilgamesh over on Fisheaters. He's always been interesting to read, but he's a bit of an actor like VetusOrdo. I never thought he was a believer.
I think this forum has gone somewhat downhill as well. Everyone has their own golden age. I would guess Matthew's golden age was from 2006 until 2009 when the forum was new. But when I first discovered the forum in like 2008 or 2009 I was shocked by it and was put off because I was new to traditional Catholicism and had not digested it all yet. It was too extreme for me back then. But I came back and joined in 2010 and I thought it was the best forum I knew of. My golden age was from 2010 when I first joined until the first ABL forum started and everyone left to post there. One of the reasons I moved over to SD was because I missed a lot of the old posters here and I wanted to graze on new pastures. I miss many of the people you mentioned. Raoul76 was my favorite poster ever on this forum even though he thought I was an infiltrator, though I said once Ladislaus was my favorite poster. I also missed CM who was not on your list but he was a nutter. And I liked many of the dogmatic sedevacantist feeneyite true-saints puritan posters who would join and get banned quickly. And there are others I am sure I don't remember. The one poster I do not miss is Classicom. As far as Pon or Gilgamesh being an actor. I never knew him when he was a believer. I know he said that during his time when he claimed to be a believer the one sin he would always confess was doubting the faith. So I guess it is possible he never believed. But if he is an actor he is a good one because he fooled me as I think he is genuine, though of course you may be right. I like his style and his interests in literature art music vegetarianism Jansenism and the Church Fathers.

As far as the other forums go I did not know Angelqueen very well but I got upset when someone there was trying to argue that Jєωs did not need to convert to be saved, I never posted on Fisheaters or even lurked there, and know nothing of Ignis Ardens, and thought SD was alright though not as good as I remember Cathinfo during the golden age. I liked ABL 1 and was sad when it disappeared, but was not happy with its replacements. I never followed the Pfeifferite forums. And As far as Mith's forums go, I was not a big fan of them though I did post on the current one. Strangely enough even though they are sedevacantist I thought it was more liberal than Cathinfo, not less, which seems strange because of its sedevacantism, but it was an acceptable forum except for the fact that there is very little traffic. The reason I stopped posting there was because I got into an argument with one of the sedevacantists and she said "good riddance!" to me and I thought that was my cue to go so I went and stop posting there though I do check in sometime.

So I miss many of the old faces and I have been here a long time. Eight years. I hear Eamon Shea is married to a beautiful woman now. I don't know about the rest of them. I wish them all well, especially Spouse of Jesus.

I don't agree with Greg a lot, though I do enjoy him. He is a guilty pleasure. It is a sign of the relative liberalism of SD that he is on the right of that forum. I just got upset at him today and kind of insulted him on a thread on SD.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
I also missed CM who was not on your list but he was a nutter. And I liked many of the dogmatic sedevacantist feeneyite true-saints puritan posters who would join and get banned quickly. And there are others I am sure I don't remember. The one poster I do not miss is Classicom.

You have some strange taste. CM (which stands for Catholic Martyr, BTW) thought he was one of a handful of true Catholics left on earth -- the only other family he knew of was fkpagnanelli who JUST SO HAPPENED to have a young, single daughter he wanted to give to CM, since they were both on the same page on religion. It was just those two versus the whole world though!

And you want to talk to Puritans who are basically heretics, dogmatic sedevacantists who say you are going to hell unless you believe a new dogma ("the See is vacant")? I guess there is no arguing with taste...

Most people would complain if I *let* such types stay on CathInfo. I guess this is another case of "you can't please everyone".
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:39:48 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:36:14 PM
You have some strange taste. CM (which stands for Catholic Martyr, BTW) thought he was one of a handful of true Catholics left on earth -- the only other family he knew of was fkpagnanelli who JUST SO HAPPENED to have a young, single daughter he wanted to give to CM, since they were both on the same page on religion. It was just those two versus the whole world though!

And you want to talk to Puritans who are basically heretics, dogmatic sedevacantists who say you are going to hell unless you believe a new dogma ("the See is vacant")? I guess there is no arguing with taste...

Most people would complain if I *let* such types stay on CathInfo. I guess this is another case of "you can't please everyone".
I could say the same of you, though. Because you banned some people so quickly but let Classicom post for years. Was it years or did it just seem so long? I admit I have a weak memory and a bad sense of time.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:41:51 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
My golden age was from 2010 when I first joined until the first ABL forum started and everyone left to post there.

Everyone left to post there, eh? In terms of traffic, they maxed out at 1/3 of CathInfo's traffic, at least in terms of how many registered members checked in within a 24-hour period. But none of the successors to the original ABL forum got even 1/20th of that popularity or traffic.

I did think it was funny, though, that the original ABL forum had 3 moderators, and at least 2 of them were sedevacantist. I guess I didn't know +ABL was a sedevacantist...hahaha (note: I'm joking. +ABL was not sedevacantist. That's my point: The forum was ironically named.)

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:41:51 PM
Everyone left to post there, eh? In terms of traffic, they maxed out at 1/3 of CathInfo's traffic, at least in terms of how many registered members checked in within a 24-hour period. But none of the successors to the original ABL forum got even 1/20th of that popularity or traffic.

I did think it was funny, though, that the original ABL forum had 3 moderators, and at least 2 of them were sedevacantist. I guess I didn't know +ABL was a sedevacantist...hahaha (note: I'm joking. +ABL was not sedevacantist. That's my point: The forum was ironically named.)
I guess it was hyperbole. Your forum was always better than ABL forum. They were a non-entity relatively speaking. Except for the presence of Telesphorus and SSS who exclusively posted there and abandoned Cathinfo.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:39:48 PM
I could say the same of you, though. Because you banned some people so quickly but let Classicom post for years. Was it years or did it just seem so long? I admit I have a weak memory and a bad sense of time.
Hey, I've developed a certain skill at moderating over the years. I wasn't the same moderator at 30 or 32 (with a few years experience) that I am today, with 12 years experience under my belt. If Classiccom joined today, he'd be gone as soon as I saw he didn't believe in Vatican I (yes, that's a ONE). Maybe I was a bit slow to ban people in the beginning, but I was new. I'll admit it.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:43:44 PM
Hey, I've developed a certain skill at moderating over the years. I wasn't the same moderator at 30 or 32 (with a few years experience) that I am today, with 12 years experience under my belt. If Classiccom joined today, he'd be gone as soon as I saw he didn't believe in Vatican I (yes, that's a ONE). Maybe I was a bit slow to ban people in the beginning, but I was new. I'll admit it.
I am kidding with you a little but you and me agree on one thing. We both think you run a great Cathinfo forum. I just miss many of the old members who left and was upset about too much flat-earth discussion and got tired of the sedevacantism debates for a while. I think you are the best moderator of any of them. Even though I do not agree with all your decisions.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Ascetik on June 06, 2018, 08:27:06 PM
I knew you were a good mod when you put that SSL cert up ;D
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Incredulous on June 07, 2018, 08:13:14 AM
Quote from: rum on June 06, 2018, 04:13:34 PM
Ggreg's the nutter. He's a Steve Sailer'esque type. They're a dime a dozen, if you have any familiarity with the kosher TakiMag/Unz crowd, bombarding you with minutiae and side-tracking tactics. He wrote an idiotic article for DailyCatholic on the one-year anniversary of 9/11 trying to manipulate trads into going into the Middle East for the Jєωs. It says all you need to know about SD that he's the most popular member over there.

This forum has gone downhill a bit in terms of quality of participants, but it's still the best trad Catholic forum I've come across. And it's been the best since it was started by Matthew after he'd been banned (or left, I forget which) by VoxClamantis. i had high hopes for the first ABLF forum, but it got really weird over there with DawnMarie and her gang.

There's been a drain of interesting members here. You used to have people like like Telesphorus, claudel, Raoul (as nutty as he was at times), columba, spouseofjesus, gladius veritatis, PilgrimageofGrace (who mainly posted on IgnisArdens), ServusSpiritus (who I haven't heard about since he abandoned the first ABLF forum), belloc, stevusmagnus, caminus, btnyc, graham, sedetrad, perejoseph, Charlemagne, Iuvenalis, partyisover221, Ethelred,  Mark79, JohnGrey, and many other quality members who weren't as prolific.

There must be some change in the zeitgeist to account for the bulk of these people no longer being here. I've read Graham on SuscipeDomine say that he's put off by the proliferation of flat-earthers.

PonDeReplay was Gilgamesh over on Fisheaters. He's always been interesting to read, but he's a bit of an actor like VetusOrdo. I never thought he was a believer.

Great review of the old players Rum! 

As Bp. Williamson once described, many of us fall in traditional Catholicism's intense rear-guard battles. But we keep going.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mOsbw8_f8rI/UnAQetDCm7I/AAAAAAAAAGY/gw5V5NSCR-8/s1600/Germans+over+the+top+History+Channel+WW1.jpg)

To Matto:  The trad forums at least give us fairly accurate field reports of neo-SSPX shenanigans.
So accurate in fact, Society priests are known to follow it regularly to find out what's happening in their Order.

Never doubt for a moment that the Society of St. Pope Pius X is corrupted and has seriously degenerated.

And their leaders maliciously continue to mislead the Catholic remnant.

Short of a miraculous intercession from Our Lady, they're gone.

Looking forward to the Last Judgement, surely the Angels will have prepared a special corral for the priesthood of "Judases", who knew Our Lord and yet betrayed Him.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: AJNC on June 07, 2018, 11:54:39 AM
Quote from: Incredulous on June 07, 2018, 08:13:14 AM
Great review of the old players Rum!  

As Bp. Williamson once described, many of us fall in traditional Catholicism's intense rear-guard battles. But we keep going.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mOsbw8_f8rI/UnAQetDCm7I/AAAAAAAAAGY/gw5V5NSCR-8/s1600/Germans+over+the+top+History+Channel+WW1.jpg)

To Matto:  The trad forums at least give us fairly accurate field reports of neo-SSPX shenanigans.
So accurate in fact, Society priests are known to follow it regularly to find out what's happening in their Order.

Never doubt for a moment that the Society of St. Pope Pius X is corrupted and has seriously degenerated.

And their leaders maliciously continue to mislead the Catholic remnant.

Short of a miraculous intercession from Our Lady, they're gone.

Looking forward to the Last Judgement, surely the Angels will have prepared a special corral for the priesthood of "Judases", who knew Our Lord and yet betrayed Him.
Incredulous
As they used to say in Kenya when I lived there 45 years ago
"Keep on keeping on!"
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Incredulous on June 07, 2018, 01:37:38 PM
Quote from: AJNC on June 07, 2018, 11:54:39 AM
Incredulous
As they used to say in Kenya when I lived there 45 years ago
"Keep on keeping on!"
ANJC,
To Catholic Kenya and all the Saints of Africa! :cheers:

Popes

Three of the early popes were either from Africa themselves or children of African immigrants to Rome. All three were from this time period and are traditionally considered saints.

They are:
Doctors
Three of the thirty-five Doctors of the Church were from Africa, all of them from this time period. They are:
Writers and theologians
Many of the early writers and theologians had connections with Africa. A partial list would include:


Others
In addition to the categories above, these first centuries gave the Church many other saints, among them:
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 07, 2018, 02:01:59 PM
Quote from: Incredulous on June 07, 2018, 08:13:14 AM
To Matto:  The trad forums at least give us fairly accurate field reports of neo-SSPX shenanigans.
So accurate in fact, Society priests are known to follow it regularly to find out what's happening in their Order.

Never doubt for a moment that the Society of St. Pope Pius X is corrupted and has seriously degenerated.

And their leaders maliciously continue to mislead the Catholic remnant.

Short of a miraculous intercession from Our Lady, they're gone.
I follow the forums so I am aware that there are problems in the SSPX and I do not have the trust in Bishop Fellay I wish I had. And I attend an SSPX chapel so I know what is going on locally. I will tell you how I feel. I think my chapel is more liberal than it was in 2008 when I first attended Mass there. The priests who offer Mass there now do seem good for the most part. The current pastor only said one thing from the pulpit that I did I did not like and that was perhaps too conservative and not too liberal, though it was ambiguous. I do not think the change amounts to a defection from the faith so I believe the SSPX is still a part of the Catholic Church and it is still safe to attend Mass there. I could describe myself like someone who liked reading The Point in 1955 but still went to his local Catholic Church and did not move across the country to live near the St. Benedict Center. I am happy with my spiritual life for the most part. The biggest sign of the liberalism really is that the indult Masses are not condemned as openly as they used to be. The priest will tell you privately to stay away from the indult but he does not condemn it publicly and there are some who attend both the indult and the SSPX. I am sympathetic to the resistance, but I have problems with it as well. I do not know if it is allowed to speak about these problems on Cathinfo so I will not mention the problems I have with Bishop Williamson but I consider some of them serious. Father Pfeiffer points them out and some of his arguments are good in my opinion. But I do not respect Father Pfeiffer anymore and I no longer watch his sermons because I think he has problems which seem even worse than Bishop Williamson's or the SSPX's. I went to two of Father Pfeiffer's Masses in the early days of the resistance and a large Catholic family who used to attend Mass at my mission actually moved to Boston Kentucky to live with Father Pfeiffer. I think they are still there now but are planning to move away. Those are some of my thoughts about the resistance.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 02:09:57 PM
Just keep in mind that just because Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer says something, it doesn't make it true.
Unfortunately.
Sad, but true.

When your whole argumentation is convincing, but founded on a lie, then what?

You're right though, I don't want any Pfeiffer propaganda on my forum. His rhetoric is false more often than it's true. It's not worth confusing people or blackening the name of good priests and bishops fighting Modernism and carrying on the fight for Tradition with no compromise, like brave honorable warriors.

Thomas A. Nelson taught me in Catechism class something you might want to learn -- that it's absurd to consider a man who loves his wife, is a kind father to his children, pays his taxes, goes to Mass every Sunday, helps old ladies cross the street -- but he's a hit man for a living! That simply doesn't happen.

Our Lord had something similar to teach: judge a tree by its fruits. Men don't gather figs from thistles.

You're not going to have virtue anywhere and everywhere, fidelity to the Cross, to a priestly vocation, wisdom in so many things -- except for THIS MORTAL SIN OVER HERE. That just doesn't happen. There's a principle in Catholic moral theology -- "no one falls all the sudden."

St. Therese the Little Flower when she was alive, or anyone habitually avoiding mortal sin, isn't going to OOPS fall into a grave sin of theft or murder. There would be lukewarmness first, dereliction of duties, skipping prayers, etc. which would lead perhaps to a large fall.

It's the same with priests. They first stop praying so much. They stop saying their Breviary. They loose the taste for spiritual things. They start looking for consolations in creatures and created things. They start hating to wear the cassock -- and it's all downhill from there.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 07, 2018, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 02:09:57 PM
Just keep in mind that just because Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer says something, it doesn't make it true.
. . .
When your whole argumentation is convincing, but founded on a lie, then what?
Yes. Like I said, I no longer respect or trust Father Pfeiffer. But I counter, just because Father Pfeiffer says something, it doesn't make it a lie. Since I have not offered my problems with Bishop Williamson you do not know if they are valid objections or ones based on lies. Bishop Williamson has made thousands of statements and has been a Bishop for thirty years, I am sure even you object to some of his deeds and some of his opinions as I do.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 02:30:14 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 07, 2018, 02:23:02 PM
Yes. Like I said, I no longer respect or trust Father Pfeiffer. But I counter, just because Father Pfeiffer says something, it doesn't make it a lie. Since I have not offered my problems with Bishop Williamson you do not know if they are valid objections or ones based on lies. Bishop Williamson has made thousands of statements and has been a Bishop for thirty years, I am sure even you object to some of his deeds and some of his opinions as I do.

Why don't you A) let God judge the man, B) give him every benefit of the doubt and C) turn a deaf ear when priests and bishops are being nit-picked by laymen or clerics?

They aren't perfect, they are human. They need our prayers and our charity.

You know, even if you're wrong God isn't going to judge you for giving the benefit of the doubt to a priest or bishop, rather than going on the attack. It isn't our responsibility to personally purify the clergy!

If only there were some benign explanation(s) for the lies, calumny, and other evils prevalent in Boston, KY! I would be the first to take refuge in them.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Ladislaus on June 07, 2018, 03:11:37 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 06:36:14 PM
fkpagnanelli ... JUST SO HAPPENED to have a young, single daughter he wanted to give to CM, since they were both on the same page on religion.

:facepalm:
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: 2Vermont on June 07, 2018, 04:16:02 PM
I think SD posters are mainly "conservative" Novus Ordites (a la CAF), indulters, and SSPX.  It seems that it is a lot quieter over there in recent times.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 05:02:06 PM
Who the heck just signed me up on Suscipe Domine as "MatthewCI"?

What kind of BS is that? I just got an e-mail saying I signed up for an account. So I guess I have someone impersonating me now?
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Ladislaus on June 07, 2018, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 05:02:06 PM
Who the heck just signed me up on Suscipe Domine as "MatthewCI"?

What kind of BS is that? I just got an e-mail saying I signed up for an account. So I guess I have someone impersonating me now?

You'll have to create an account called "theRealMatthewCI" ... as happens with Twitter when people impersonate others.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Incredulous on June 07, 2018, 07:08:43 PM
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 07, 2018, 07:02:54 PM
You'll have to create an account called "theRealMatthewCI" ... as happens with Twitter when people impersonate others.

Matthew's in the biq leagues now.

Sister Lucy had the same problem, before the internet.
(http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages_g-k/G012_A05_Serious.jpg)
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 07, 2018, 08:07:37 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
The reason I stopped posting there was because I got into an argument with one of the sedevacantists and she said "good riddance!" to me and I thought that was my cue to go so I went and stop posting there though I do check in sometime.
I just wanted to say that the sedevacantist who I had this argument with contacted me and told me that she sent me a few PMs on the other forum which I never saw because I left the forum. I read them just now for the first time months later and responded to her. I should say that while we did get in an argument I was not innocent either. I think we were both to blame. But I did get very upset after our argument and stopped posting there. Except for that one argument we have had a good relationship and I think the reason I got upset was because up to that time we were friendly so when we argued it hurt. If you know who the person is who I am talking about please don't think ill of her. She thought it would have been better if I had not mentioned our argument.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 07, 2018, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
I hear Eamon Shea is married to a beautiful woman now. I don't know about the rest of them. I wish them all well, especially Spouse of Jesus.

That's good to hear. I hope he's on a good path.

IIRC spouseofJesus had to stop posting because Iran was cracking down on allowing access to American websites, and she was asking about VPNs.

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 07, 2018, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: Matthew on June 06, 2018, 04:50:13 PM
1. Most of those people stopped posting for their own personal reasons. Most of those members you listed were not banned -- you can look each of them up if you want.
Yes I know most of them weren't banned.

It's not so much those particular people leaving that makes me scratch my head, as that particular quality of member seeming to be in shorter supply in recent years.

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: St Ignatius on June 07, 2018, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: Incredulous on June 07, 2018, 08:13:14 AM
As Bp. Williamson once described, many of us fall in traditional Catholicism's intense rear-guard battles. But we keep going.
I wish I could cite the source, but didn't our Lady say something to the effect that in these latter days, it would be heroic for one just to fulfill one's duty of state? Doesn't seem to me that by making a splash on a public forum is going to be the deciding factor for most souls... not to say that these Catholic forums don't have their place.
 
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Maria Regina on June 07, 2018, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: St Ignatius on June 07, 2018, 10:22:06 PM
I wish I could cite the source, but didn't our Lady say something to the effect that in these latter days, it would be heroic for one just to fulfill one's duty of state? Doesn't seem to me that by making a splash on a public forum is going to be the deciding factor for most souls... not to say that these Catholic forums don't have their place.
 
A saint (I do not know which one) made the statement that in the End Times, those who persevere in the Holy Faith will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. This echoes St. John the Apostle who encourages us to persevere in these End Times. In addition, the Beatitudes, mentioned in the Gospel of St. Matthew, also relate that those who are persecuted (then and in the End Times) will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. These Beatitudes were taught by Christ Himself on the Sermon on the Mount.

So, one must ask:  Why did the Vatican II Church label Pope John Paul II as the Great?
He did so much to lead people away from the Holy Faith by kissing the Koran and by participating in the Assisi Inter-faith fiasco.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: trad123 on June 08, 2018, 02:19:39 AM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 01:58:08 PM
There are some good members there. I recommend Maximilian who I wish would post more. He is a veteran traditional Catholic forum poster going back well over a decade. He used to post on different forums that closed down like Ignis Ardens. I don't know if he ever posted on Cathinfo. But he has interesting ideas. He seems sympathetic to the Old Catholics and does not believe in Papal Infallibility and is sympathetic to the Jansenists. I like him even though he has unique ideas and he was once described on this forum as the best traditional Catholic poster on the internet.

?

That's not sympathy, he's one of them, if he holds to that
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: LaramieHirsch on June 08, 2018, 07:12:14 AM

Quote
Those are my thoughts on SD.



::)
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 08, 2018, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 06, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
And As far as Mith's forums go, I was not a big fan of them though I did post on the current one. Strangely enough even though they are sedevacantist I thought it was more liberal than Cathinfo, not less, which seems strange because of its sedevacantism, but it was an acceptable forum except for the fact that there is very little traffic.

Interesting that you should notice this, as I have as well. I noticed it also on the first ABLF forum when I was attacked by half the forum for merely suggesting gender segregated forums. And on TeDeum forum (which has been taken down) you had some Judaizers. And you say "more liberal than Cathinfo," which means you find this element on CathInfo as well. You find these types in every traditional Catholic group, and they're always Judaized as well.

I mentioned recently that it's hard for me to know which traditional Catholic group is on the right track, as all of them have these unsavory people in their midst. It would be easier to tell which group is right if there was one group that kept these types at bay.

You also mentioned missing CM, who Matthew illustrates had a few screws loose. You might have an appetite for entertaining trolls, as do I. But if they're seriously crazy, like CM, then I worry.


Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Mithrandylan on June 08, 2018, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: rum on June 08, 2018, 01:11:18 PM
Interesting that you should notice this, as I have as well. I noticed it also on the first ABLF forum when I was attacked by half the forum for merely suggesting gender segregated forums. And on TeDeum forum (which has been taken down) you had some Judaizers. And you say "more liberal than Cathinfo," which means you find this element on CathInfo as well. You find these types in every traditional Catholic group, and they're always Judaized as well.

I mentioned recently that it's hard for me to know which traditional Catholic group is on the right track, as all of them have these unsavory people in their midst. It would be easier to tell which group is right if there was one group that kept these types at bay.

You also mentioned missing CM, who Matthew illustrates had a few screws loose. You might have an appetite for entertaining trolls, as do I. But if they're seriously crazy, like CM, then I worry.
.
Incidentally, TTF was originally a private, gender-segregated forum since about 2014 that only became public (and then migrated in late 2017) owing to the conspicuous closure of Te Deum.  Point just being, I don't think I've ever in principle been against gender segregated forums-- I moderated one for a while (even if no one knew about it).  It depends quite a bit on the purpose of the forum also, I think.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 09, 2018, 05:50:56 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 08, 2018, 02:45:09 PM
.
Incidentally, TTF was originally a private, gender-segregated forum since about 2014 that only became public (and then migrated in late 2017) owing to the conspicuous closure of Te Deum.  Point just being, I don't think I've ever in principle been against gender segregated forums-- I moderated one for a while (even if no one knew about it).  It depends quite a bit on the purpose of the forum also, I think.
My memory is spotty about ABLF. I forget if you were there.

When I was on SuscipeDomine or TeDeum I asked TMW for permission to join the original forum, but he never got back to me. I heard one member say something along the lines that there wasn't enough activity because men need women to create a social atmosphere. This doesn't make much sense to me, as I belong to secular forums that are populated solely by men, even though there's no rule about women joining.

Ironically I don't care about having an all-male forum, despite my having created a firestorm on ABLF about it. It was the nature of the reaction which I found bizarre, not that people were against it.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: alaric on June 09, 2018, 08:56:18 AM
What is ABLF?
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: alaric on June 09, 2018, 09:00:18 AM
Quote from: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 05:02:06 PM
Who the heck just signed me up on Suscipe Domine as "MatthewCI"?

What kind of BS is that? I just got an e-mail saying I signed up for an account. So I guess I have someone impersonating me now?
Look out Matthew! 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wluqrLO447nZB2/yHRSpDDhz3Ne7U+fGS4TA2gW9kKmMxNUeFznTyMh3xXp/bbKa5wby0xUa5r2gcdJk/CVV8qxYxNIagC4bhwm436peWevXTHx5e3beTZjTdYnS7aDxRzok+aG/p1E7tLT0JU7MC4AhrweRcNvv71nM1XAizmmCQY2JhLMQ0N/sis3rVGP0V2hk3Y9pJY6OXLyKDLXG5uFW9lJpw94sAZuFdcJUGgW4Kk1qQFwNyFbMJXAY1xFoTnRZC6r5cE47S0w7CQf9qrf4sFzRdWnMnB2FI5Qipeduy9vJYmzqNzYrEvY0r6h07qMvUDqvgNlxr38lqiSiKgt8/KVleuTfa0LeV1QXEnYBTYim0tJAv023UZXlcgOmLqVkQSFC2y3Uq8OcEoGtiWkaR5T8VNRdbyCBpV7EdLLrvt+oVp9Ts1fB6KKtXAG/D5pUyvwvyUXeEz5Qg9GlGvAF+ibNxp35QqhRxFoHBycuм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)(http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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єω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м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)(http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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єω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м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)(http://cdn1-www.comingsoon.net/assets/uploads/2017/07/remakes-watching-slide-890Z-videoSixteenByNineJumbo1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: JezusDeKoning on June 09, 2018, 09:02:26 AM
Quote from: alaric on June 09, 2018, 08:56:18 AM
What is ABLF?
Archbishop Lefebvre Forums. Pretty decent small, very sedevacantist-friendly forum that later closed. Shame, because it was a great place.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: alaric on June 09, 2018, 09:11:41 AM
Quote from: JezusDeKoning on June 09, 2018, 09:02:26 AM
Archbishop Lefebvre Forums. Pretty decent small, very sedevacantist-friendly forum that later closed. Shame, because it was a great place.
Interesting, never heard of it. not that it matter now,thx.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Mithrandylan on June 09, 2018, 09:36:24 AM
Quote from: rum on June 09, 2018, 05:50:56 AM
My memory is spotty about ABLF. I forget if you were there.
.
I modded it with tmw. SSS was the admin.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Nick on June 10, 2018, 06:34:54 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 09, 2018, 09:36:24 AM
.
I modded it with tmw. SSS was the admin.
Where/what  is SSS now ?
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 10, 2018, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: JezusDeKoning on June 09, 2018, 09:02:26 AM
Archbishop Lefebvre Forums. Pretty decent small, very sedevacantist-friendly forum that later closed. Shame, because it was a great place.

Yes, the sedevacantist forum (not exaggerating here: 2 out of the 3 mods were formal sedevacantists) ironically named after "Archbishop Lefebvre". Regardless of how good the forum was or wasn't, they really should have chosen a better name. Something about sedevacantism, empty chair, Robert Bellarmine. Because the last time I checked, +ABL wasn't a sedevacantist. And no, I'm not Sean Johnson, so I'm not claiming he was a dogmatic sedeplenist. And Sedes can argue about what +ABL might have done if he had lived to be 100. But the historical fact remains that +ABL was never a sedevacantist.

So it's still very shady to try to co-opt +ABL as a hero for a bunch of sedevacantists!

And +ABL certainly didn't have a problem with Bishop Williamson.

+ABL left the Pope question somewhat open. He at least PERSONALLY considered the possibility that someday he might have to say the Chair is empty. He was also firmly against Conciliar Rome, Modernist Rome, etc. so that would eliminate any forums with a neo-SSPX, Indult, or Accordista stance.

Sounds to me like the REAL "Archbishop Lefebvre" forum is right here: CathInfo.

It is my serious and biased belief that if +ABL were alive today, his favorite English language forum would be CathInfo. (I do have some evidence to go on: his best and most faithful successor, +Williamson, gets along with me just fine and has given his blessing to CathInfo multiple times)
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 10, 2018, 10:08:43 AM
Quote from: Nick on June 10, 2018, 06:34:54 AM
Where/what  is SSS now ?
If he had been kidnapped by aliens and taken to another planet to live out the remainder of his natural life (I'm joking of course, since I don't believe in aliens)
the evidence wouldn't be any different!

In other words, he disappeared without a trace. No one's heard of him since his forum closed, and that was years ago. Not a trace of him since, not on any forum, e-mail, chat, Facebook, or anything. It's like he shut down ABLF 1, sold all his possessions, and went off to Tibet to become a Buddhist monk.

Like I said, if he HAD done that, the evidence would be identical to the evidence we see today.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 10, 2018, 10:16:57 AM
I just thought of something else - 

The other forums which sprang up after SSS's forum were about as much of a replacement for the original ABL Forum as Jar-Jar Binks was a replacement for Boba Fett in Star Wars. (for the non-Star Wars fans out there: Boba Fett is considered one of the coolest characters in the original Star Wars trilogy, while Jar-Jar Binks is one of the most hated characters in movie history)

You know how most sequels stink? They often get it wrong, go off the rails, aren't faithful to the original, are not even 2% as good or popular as the original, etc.? Bingo!

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 10, 2018, 12:44:08 PM
Yeah a better name could have been chosen, but SSS was the admin and he wasn't a sede.

I wish I had known better at the time about Pablo and Dawn Marie and their fans. I wouldn't have joined.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Mithrandylan on June 10, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
Unfortunately ABLF is completely offline except for a few webarchives.

But I object to the categorization of it as a coopted sedevacantist forum.  It wasn't.  Sedevacantism came up more here on CI than it did on ABLF.  As far as the two sede mods-- myself and tmw-- I'd challenge anyone to find anything but praise from either of us for him, and at that, we've never delusionally claimed he was a sedevacantist.  SSS was the one who created the forum, and he named it what he named it.  I don't know what happened to him, but I do know he's alive.  I think he just got tired of it all.  I don't know if he's still Catholic, but I don't have any evidence to the contrary.  We should all pray for him.  If I agree with you on one thing Matthew, it's that he was never cut out to run a forum.  He wasn't assertive enough and he wasn't crystallized in his ideas enough.

And Rum, we booted the Pfeifferites and the Dawn Marie lackeys.  Either literally, or by just running them out the old-fashioned way.

ABLF is unfortunately only a memory now, but a fond one.  The "offshoots" were all a wreck and they were essentially just opportunistic.  Whoever started the forum first was "ABLF 2.0", etc.  None of them held even a remote candle to ABLF and I think they all knew it.  No ill will toward any of them, just pointing out the obvious. 
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matthew on June 10, 2018, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 10, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
ABLF is unfortunately only a memory now, but a fond one.  The "offshoots" were all a wreck and they were essentially just opportunistic.  Whoever started the forum first was "ABLF 2.0", etc.  None of them held even a remote candle to ABLF and I think they all knew it.  No ill will toward any of them, just pointing out the obvious.

Yeah, numbers don't lie. Both posts per day, total membership, # of members who check in during a 24-hour period, etc.
Any way you look at it, those opportunistic attempts to start a new forum in the wake of ABLF 1.0's demise were like bad movie sequels, as I said above. They jumped the shark (an expression I learned the meaning of just today).
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 10, 2018, 11:02:36 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 10, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
And Rum, we booted the Pfeifferites and the Dawn Marie lackeys.  Either literally, or by just running them out the old-fashioned way.

Hmm, my memory must be getting weak as I get older. I thought the forum folded shortly after I was banned, and at that time the Dawn Marie/Pablo clique were the dominant factor.

I do regret that forum in another sense, in that Telesphorus and SSS (two of my all-time favorites) disappeared from the trad fora.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Mithrandylan on June 10, 2018, 11:52:39 PM
Quote from: rum on June 10, 2018, 11:02:36 PM
Hmm, my memory must be getting weak as I get older. I thought the forum folded shortly after I was banned, and at that time the Dawn Marie/Pablo clique were the dominant factor.

I do regret that forum in another sense, in that Telesphorus and SSS (two of my all-time favorites) disappeared from the trad fora.
.
The Dawn Marie and Pfeiffer cult were gone as soon as they arrived, more or less. 
.
On the other hand, the different "bad movie sequels" as Matthew put it, had their fair share, and I think one of those sequels more or less built it's brand around that nonsense.
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Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 11, 2018, 02:49:03 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 10, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
And Rum, we booted the Pfeifferites and the Dawn Marie lackeys.  Either literally, or by just running them out the old-fashioned way.

These posts in my archive give a fresher take on my memories of that period. 1 (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/what-are-the-chances-of-williamson-reuniting-with-sspx/msg466983/#msg466983), 2 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/why-arent-sedevacantists-more-impressive/msg471441/#msg471441), 3 (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/the-seer-responds-to-bishop-fellay/msg475616/#msg475616)

Maybe I shouldn't be remembering SSS and Telesphorus so fondly. Though I do, because of the pre-ABLF period.

TMW expressing a desire to see DawnMarie come back after she had deleted her account on ABLF doesn't sound like he disliked her all that much. I don't remember you and SSS disliking her, but being quite friendly with her, as I express in one of those posts. She was a ringleader over there and dominated the forum, and the mods and owner. Never banned I take it. She deleted her account, so it doesn't appear you ran them out the old-fashioned way.

You and TMW have always given off a vibe I don't like. Can't quite put my finger on it. I didn't enjoy you two as mods on ABLF or Te Deum.

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Mithrandylan on June 11, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: rum on June 11, 2018, 02:49:03 PM
These posts in my archive give a fresher take on my memories of that period. 1 (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/what-are-the-chances-of-williamson-reuniting-with-sspx/msg466983/#msg466983), 2 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/why-arent-sedevacantists-more-impressive/msg471441/#msg471441), 3 (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/the-seer-responds-to-bishop-fellay/msg475616/#msg475616)

Maybe I shouldn't be remembering SSS and Telesphorus so fondly. Though I do, because of the pre-ABLF period.

TMW expressing a desire to see DawnMarie come back after she had deleted her account on ABLF doesn't sound like he disliked her all that much. I don't remember you and SSS disliking her, but being quite friendly with her, as I express in one of those posts. She was a ringleader over there and dominated the forum, and the mods and owner. Never banned I take it. She deleted her account, so it doesn't appear you ran them out the old-fashioned way.
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She deleted her account before all the visionary stuff came to the forefront.  That's how I remember it, anyways.  I remember she got very sensitive about something-- I think we were discussing the "canonizations" of JPII and JXXIII and she didn't like it and just took off.  We all thought it was fairly abrupt.  After that, the visionary stuff started to circulate.
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When I say "booted" I don't necessarily mean banned-- as I said in the previous post, a lot of them we ran off the "good ol' fashioned way", i.e., by basically relentlessly arguing with them until they gave up.  By making them feel unwelcome (and it worked, usually does).
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You and TMW have always given off a vibe I don't like. Can't quite put my finger on it. I didn't enjoy you two as mods on ABLF or Te Deum.

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Don't worry, you've always rubbed me the wrong way too.  But nowadays I find it a lot more amusing than I used to.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: Matto on June 11, 2018, 03:12:02 PM
Rum, I like you, but I think your standards are too high. I think we are all liberalized and Judaized to a large degree in the modern world. All of us, though on Cathinfo less so than on most websites. I know I am Judaized though I try to overcome it. I still remember with shame how when I was in High School I defended Shakespeare from accusations of antisemitism, citing Shylock's speech:

Hath not
a Jєω eyes? hath not a Jєω hands, organs, dimensions,
senses, affections, passions? Fed with the
same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to
the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer
as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not
bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you
poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall
we not revenge?

as if there was nothing worse a man could do than not like Jєωs.
Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 11, 2018, 03:22:06 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 11, 2018, 03:12:02 PM
Rum, I like you, but I think your standards are too high. I think we are all liberalized and Judaized to a large degree in the modern world. All of us, though on Cathinfo less so than on most websites. I know I am Judaized though I try to overcome it. I still remember with shame how when I was in High School I defended Shakespeare from accusations of antisemitism, citing Shylock's speech:

I don't think my standards are high at all. If anything they're too low.

I agree about everyone being infected to some degree, though some want to be, some don't know that they are, and some don't want to be.

Title: Re: Suscipe Domine Again
Post by: rum on June 11, 2018, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 11, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
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She deleted her account before all the visionary stuff came to the forefront.  That's how I remember it, anyways.  I remember she got very sensitive about something-- I think we were discussing the "canonizations" of JPII and JXXIII and she didn't like it and just took off.  We all thought it was fairly abrupt.  After that, the visionary stuff started to circulate.
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When I say "booted" I don't necessarily mean banned-- as I said in the previous post, a lot of them we ran off the "good ol' fashioned way", i.e., by basically relentlessly arguing with them until they gave up.  By making them feel unwelcome (and it worked, usually does).
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Don't worry, you've always rubbed me the wrong way too.  But nowadays I find it a lot more amusing than I used to.
When I signed on at Te Deum TMW greeted me with jubilance. I found it so phony, after the experience at ABLF.

You do seem cooler as you've gotten older. I remember making some joke about you when you first came here and in a huff you asked Matthew to delete your account.

And yes, I've noticed the periods.