Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: amariec on March 07, 2010, 05:48:40 PM
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I have seen a numerous videos and read some articles on this subject. The songs depict satanic statements and chants when played in reverse. The artists include Lil' Wayne, Madonna, Lady Gaga, The Jonas Brothers, Miley Cirus, The Barney theme song, and even speeches by Barack Obama.
When played in reverse the songs includes phrases such as "we speak for satan", and the Barack Obama famous statement "yes we can" reverse says "Thank you Satan." I find this very creepy and haunting. Has anyone else seen these videos or heard about this. Give your feedback.
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There is no need to play the 'music' of these 'artists' in reverse to determne the demonic character.
I have never placed much faith in Oates either. :whistleblower:
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I believe that the song Stairway to Heaven says 666 and Satan various times when played backwards as well.
Some of the songs that people accuse of having subliminal messages sound iffy at best when played backwards.
As roscoe said though, even when played normally they still are a bit unsettling to me. I made a thread about the song "Hotel California" a while ago. That song is creepy.
Do you have more information on the Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and other people aiming at children for their audience?
EDIT:
The practice of putting messages into music isn't new at all. There's symbolism and hidden messages in music even from the Baroque era. There have been volumes written on the symbolism in Bach's music. Mozart put Freemasonic themes in Die Zauberflote. So I guess that this practice is rather ancient. Although I don't think that they have been inspired by Satan since the composer actually intended to write them in. There is no way that you can intend to have something say something forwards and say something backwards that makes sense.
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I actually found some of the videos on Youtube. I would prefer not to re-visit the site and listen to it again to give u details. But if you type in "Jonas brothers subliminal message or satanic message" it will come up. Same for Hannah Montanna and Barney. It appalled me when i saw these videos because i adored Barney growing up, and my younger sister is a huge fan of Miley Cirus and the Jonas Brothers.
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That's perfectly fine. I probably wouldn't listen to them again either.
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There is no way that you can intend to have something say something forwards and say something backwards that makes sense.
Actually, I read a certain musician some time ago back-masked a message into one of his songs and it said "If your playing this backwards, then you must have a lot of time on your hands". So yes it is possible... difficult, but possible. I wish I could remember who did that song though.
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Aleister Crowley who a famous satanist among many other things had a large influence on many musicians, such as the beatles and jay-z to list a few. however, he introduced the idea of putting these evil messages into music to introduce them into the subconscious mind.
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Aleister Crowley who a famous satanist among many other things had a large influence on many musicians, such as the beatles and jay-z to list a few. however, he introduced the idea of putting these evil messages into music to introduce them into the subconscious mind.
Which is why backmasking should be taken seriously. crowley was a satanic genius, not your typical satanist. After all he's the founder of the French Gnostic Catholic Church.
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Which is why backmasking should be taken seriously. crowley was a satanic genius, not your typical satanist. After all he's the founder of the French Gnostic Catholic Church.
This is exactly why I am truly concerned when there are so many people who have no idea what they may be listening to. My sisters love The Jonas Brothers and Miley Cirus, which were two artists who have music that includes this technique.
As i also mentioned before, there have been SEVERAL discoveries of Obama using this in more than one of his speeches and in the "yes we can" music video.
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I am truly concerned when there are so many people who have no idea what they may be listening to.
What is more, music touches the emotions directly. Many who get hooked on this or that disordered music are quite nasty about it if you try to explain anything, however calmly and rationally you proceed.
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I think I may have posted this before, but I think it's worth it to watch these series.
First, this one at:
http://www.theindustryexposed.com
and:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DikoLMfnEgE
The Music Industry Exposed. The one here was made by muslims, but it has a lot of good information in it about the artists, especially Jay-Z and others.
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bobbobbobbob said blahblahblahblah, but Led Z were sicko perverts.
This is just one little part of the story on them...
Led Zeppelin's ...album, Houses of the Holy, was released in 1973.
The orange album cover of Houses of the Holy depicts images of nude children climbing up the Giant's Causeway (in County Antrim, Northern Ireland). Although the children are not depicted from the front, this was controversial at the time of the album's release, and in some areas, such as the "Bible Belt" and Spain, the record was banned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin
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Obomba has Jay-Zee and Lil Wayne in his rotation( satanic rappers). No need for the alleged backmasking or subliminals here.
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I believe that the song Stairway to Heaven says 666 and Satan various times when played backwards as well.
-Vladimir
Stairway To Heaven backwards have satanic messaging? Every time I hear that I feel its possibly the dumbest thing I ever heard. You people who go around saying "Yeah, I think these artists (typically rock and roll - do I sense prejudice?) are satanists" are real hypocrites. You never even met the eople and your judging them. Have you ever listened to Stairway to Heaven going forward? Well let me tell you its a very positive song. You people going around looking for evil and find it only where you want to find it. I bet I could play a recording of some of your average church choir and organ music backwards and find satanic messaging in it. What matters is the songs forward. I'm a Christian and I KNOW that I've had a more intimate and spiritual experience during a guitar solo by jimmy page or jerry garcia than I ever had with the average plastic coated church songs. Yeah, a lot of the rock stars had sex and did drugs. But they didn't ever kill anyone or seriously hurt anyone. Most Christians treat sex and drugs as if they are 1000 times more evil than killing. And, if evil at all, then they are 1000 times less evil thhan any type of violence or even just treating others wrong. And treating others wrong is exactly what you're doing by judging all these people and their God-given artistic skill. Their music I know has helped more kids than extremist Christian's fire and brimstone, "God is gonna send all you rotten kids to hell," and "the devil is possesing everyone" rnts and raves. God is a merciful and loving God and doesn't want to send anyone to hell. The Prodigal Son is the most powerful and arguably one of the most important parts of the Bible. The other most important is that Jesus died for our sins, again showing God's mercy. And its the same merciful and loving God that created all people. So for you people to go around assuming that an entire group of people (ie rock and roll artists) are trying to get kids to worship the devil is just ridiculous. I heard somewhere a little while ago someone responded to some article online the following quote: "There's nothing wrong with Christianity, but there is something wrong with a lot of Christians." I completely agree, that Christianity (in its raw form right from Jesus, not the now possibly and probably corrupt new teachings that have been made by humans who by nature sin, especially when in power to influence many others) is very good. But saying that there is something wrong with a lot of Christians is a legitimate argument. Although I don't know that I'd completely agree, because I don'tlike to judge people, but I do agree and will judge the actions of a lot of Christians. Many Christians are the most judgemental people I ever met. They think they are so righteous and anyone who doesn't follow exactly what their told is a horrible, lower than life thing. This is completely against what Jesus taught. And this is the kind of thing that gives Christianity an (unfairly gained, to the religion itself) bad reputation, judging others. Just because people don't believe exactly what those in power try to shove into their brains and hearts doesn't make them bad or satanists. On the contrary, people that try to find their own way spiritually are truly stronger in faith than those who listen constantly to humans in power and not to Jesus himself. These views are coming from a Christian, who may not be the best Christian in many of your judgemental eyes, but as far as when I pray during the day everyday, seems to be in a pretty good relationship with Jesus.
And anyway, back to the Stairway thing check out this website I found, The guy who wrote this was a good inspiration: http://www.sunsetwestproductions.com/forever/stairway.htm
And sorry to rant and rave so long, But the whole backmasking gets me very worked up, especially hen its about a very talented and artistic group such as Led Zeppelin.
I've listened to the song forwards. From a musical perspective, it isn't entirely bad - the lyrics however, are cryptic and creepy. I can't really find any inspiring meaning in it.
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In case no one has heard, Stairway To ( allegedly) Heaven is new words based upon the chord sequence of Theme Form Gilligans Island. :smoke-pot:
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Ok have not listen to the song in long time but here is the lyrics:
There's a lady who's sure
All that glitters is gold
And she's buying a stairway to heaven
When she gets there she knows
If the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for
Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh
And she's buying a stairway to heaven
There's a sign on the wall
But she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have
Two meanings
In a tree by the brook
There's a songbird who sings
Sometimes all of our thoughts are
Misgiven
Ooh, it makes me wonder
Ooh, it makes me wonder
There's a feeling I get
When I look to the west
And my spirit is crying
For leaving
In my thoughts I have seen
Rings of smoke through the trees
And the voices of those
Who stand looking
Ooh, it makes me wonder
Ooh, it really makes me wonder
And it's whispered that soon
If we all call the tune
Then the piper will lead us to reason
And a new day will dawn
For those who stand long
And the forests will
Echo with laughter
Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, ooh, whoa, oh
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow
Don't be alarmed now
It's just a spring clean
For the May queen
Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change
The road you're on
And it makes me wonder
Aw, uh, oh
Your head is humming and it won't go
In case you don't know
The piper's calling you to join him
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow?
And did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind?
(Solo)
And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold
And if you listen very hard
The truth will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll
And she's buying a stairway
To heaven...
I'm not sure what Christian message you are gleaning out of this song; I've having trouble finding any message at all! Do you mind explaining the message you think that this song is giving?
I would argue that, yes, many things in Sacred Scripture are cryptic- discomforting, no. This song and the song Hotel California have always made me feel very uncomfortable whenever they are played.
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While I find posters like Vlad and RC to be generally distasteful, I do agree with them at times. Led Zep( like the Who, Doors, R Stones, Hendrix etc) is definitely a Satanic Band who follows Crowley. R Plants small child was most likely murdered in a satanic ritual and K Richards( a self described friend of lucifer) was involved in a murder in the former Rothschild mansion sometime in the 1980's. See M Terry -- the Ultimate Evil( about the Son of Sam murders) Btw-- Berkowitz was MKU as was Chapman( although it is doubtful if he actually shot Lennon).
What I object to is the linking of early Beatles and the rest of pre 1966 R and R to all of this. Everything changes in 1966-67-- At this point Rock and Roll loses the Roll. There is no such thing as Rock, Metal Rock, Country Rock or Hard Rock b4 this point. Within a couple of yrs things go further downhill as the satanic 'Disco' music surfaces.
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It is amazing how many of the 'peace and love' 1960's icons are actually quite violent and perverts at that. Ghandi is a good example as he was a pedophile
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The Freemason ML King is another good example
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/mlk_jr-exposed.htm
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It's entirely tragic how, when people bring attention to music, some people get so defensive. Where does this come from?
Some people here have done some research on the music, and so, to say we're "judging" is inaccurate.
It's entirely idiotic to accuse someone of "judging" someone else when that person is likely discerning through their conscience and what they already know to be bad.
If I saw a Satanist dressed in all Gothic clothes, with a pentagram around his neck and 666 on the back of his t-shirt, and a goathead on the front of his shirt, WHAT DO YOU THINK I'M GOING TO ASSUME?
"Oh but YOU can't 'JUDGE' him because you don't 'KNOW' him."
If it smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what? It's probably a DUCK!
This world, aptly said by vigilant citizen, is ruled by symbols, and meanings masked. Well, if you choose NOT to pay attention to those things, you're allowing your mind to be fed things that you don't even realize it's being fed, and if you have no problem with that, continue on your merry little way, but wise people say that you're wrong, and you're affecting your subconscious, stupidly.
All I gotta say is-- "You've been warned."
http://vigilantcitizen.com
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I believe that the song Stairway to Heaven says 666 and Satan various times when played backwards as well.
-Vladimir
Stairway To Heaven backwards have satanic messaging? Every time I hear that I feel its possibly the dumbest thing I ever heard. You people who go around saying "Yeah, I think these artists (typically rock and roll - do I sense prejudice?) are satanists" are real hypocrites. You never even met the eople and your judging them. Have you ever listened to Stairway to Heaven going forward? Well let me tell you its a very positive song. You people going around looking for evil and find it only where you want to find it. I bet I could play a recording of some of your average church choir and organ music backwards and find satanic messaging in it. What matters is the songs forward. I'm a Christian and I KNOW that I've had a more intimate and spiritual experience during a guitar solo by jimmy page or jerry garcia than I ever had with the average plastic coated church songs. Yeah, a lot of the rock stars had sex and did drugs. But they didn't ever kill anyone or seriously hurt anyone. Most Christians treat sex and drugs as if they are 1000 times more evil than killing. And, if evil at all, then they are 1000 times less evil thhan any type of violence or even just treating others wrong. And treating others wrong is exactly what you're doing by judging all these people and their God-given artistic skill. Their music I know has helped more kids than extremist Christian's fire and brimstone, "God is gonna send all you rotten kids to hell," and "the devil is possesing everyone" rnts and raves. God is a merciful and loving God and doesn't want to send anyone to hell. The Prodigal Son is the most powerful and arguably one of the most important parts of the Bible. The other most important is that Jesus died for our sins, again showing God's mercy. And its the same merciful and loving God that created all people. So for you people to go around assuming that an entire group of people (ie rock and roll artists) are trying to get kids to worship the devil is just ridiculous. I heard somewhere a little while ago someone responded to some article online the following quote: "There's nothing wrong with Christianity, but there is something wrong with a lot of Christians." I completely agree, that Christianity (in its raw form right from Jesus, not the now possibly and probably corrupt new teachings that have been made by humans who by nature sin, especially when in power to influence many others) is very good. But saying that there is something wrong with a lot of Christians is a legitimate argument. Although I don't know that I'd completely agree, because I don'tlike to judge people, but I do agree and will judge the actions of a lot of Christians. Many Christians are the most judgemental people I ever met. They think they are so righteous and anyone who doesn't follow exactly what their told is a horrible, lower than life thing. This is completely against what Jesus taught. And this is the kind of thing that gives Christianity an (unfairly gained, to the religion itself) bad reputation, judging others. Just because people don't believe exactly what those in power try to shove into their brains and hearts doesn't make them bad or satanists. On the contrary, people that try to find their own way spiritually are truly stronger in faith than those who listen constantly to humans in power and not to Jesus himself. These views are coming from a Christian, who may not be the best Christian in many of your judgemental eyes, but as far as when I pray during the day everyday, seems to be in a pretty good relationship with Jesus.
And anyway, back to the Stairway thing check out this website I found, The guy who wrote this was a good inspiration: http://www.sunsetwestproductions.com/forever/stairway.htm
And sorry to rant and rave so long, But the whole backmasking gets me very worked up, especially hen its about a very talented and artistic group such as Led Zeppelin.
Your post reminds me of the people at CAF.
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I may respond to these shortly or later, but I want to quote them now to highlight several problems which others are sure to notice.
I mean, look at all the charity work that these peaople have done. Helping the poor is one of the most important, if not THE most important thing Jesus said to do.
In fact, a lot of these musicians may have been more spiritual than me or you guys. Even if they didn't have the same beliefs as us. God works in mysterious ways.
Im not an export on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, but I just looked a little bit abt it now and it claims its not a religion or a substitute for one and encourages a belief in some kind of God, Whether it be the Trinity, God for Jєωιѕн people, Allah, Budha, or Hindu beliefs, whatever. And I firmly believe that any religion that tells ppl to do right and reject sin is the True God speaking, whether its Budhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. It seems to me that the Church views on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ have more to do on fearing what they misunderstand than anything.
And just to tell everyone the church is far from perfect itself. I mean its run by humans who sin. And its not very democratic a lot of the time either. I mean, just a while back they didnt want people reading the Bible and possibly interpret something in their own way. Why? B/c it would be a threat to their power over the Church.
Just like when Martin Luther fought against the selling of indulgences (which was clearly wrong selling them), he was excommunicated because he was a threat to the church's power.
Why did we go on crusades and kill tons of people? Why did the pope at those times lead troops into battle (which Christianity began as a pacifist religion... seems the church took it completely south, huh?) and the pope had mistresses living with him? Power. And that makes the very great possibilty of the church's corruption. Those who gain power are afraid to lose it. That has been shown in the church many a time.
And so I found that I disagree with some things the church says. But I am still in line with what Jesus says. What I disagree with is the stuff that is taught from humans that claim to be (but weren't influenced by God. My point is this: You need to stop thinking that whatever you are told is automatically true. Think, Pray, and Discover the truth for yourself. That's the only way to find truths. The plan I have (and I am becoming more spiritual all the time) is to read all different religious writings: The whole Bible, the Quaran, Budhist and Hindu wrtings, etc. God reveals himself through all religions that support right over wrong.
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I mean, look at all the charity work that these peaople have done. Helping the poor is one of the most important, if not THE most important thing Jesus said to do.
All I know of Satanism is that it revolves around the worship of Satan. Unless the core values of a religion or ideology forbids good works the fact that a person gives alms doesn't mean that a particular individual doesn't adhere to a certain system of belief. I don't see any reason why a Satanist cannot be at the same time a philanthropist.
Now, whether or not these musicians are in fact Satanists, I don't know. If they utilize satanic imagery or lyrics do they therefore truly believe in it, or is this something that is done because it's merely considered rebellious, cool, or out of the ordinary, I don't know.
I agree that corporal works of mercy are necessary and good, but spiritual works of mercy are greater than corporal works of mercy. To feed an individual's soul is of greater importance than to feed their body.
Aiding the poor couldn't be the most important thing to do as if that was the case it would have been better if St. Mary Magdalen had never poured ointment on our Lord in preparation for his burial and rather had sold it and given the proceeds to the poor.
As far as I'm aware rock music is generally discouraged on two accounts:
1) sinful lyrics
2) the beat of the music is inductive to sinful passions
As to the second part I haven't read anything that argues the truth of that claim so I can't say for sure if it does.
In fact, a lot of these musicians may have been more spiritual than me or you guys. Even if they didn't have the same beliefs as us. God works in mysterious ways.
What is spirituality? I've often heard people say that they are spiritual, but not religious. I Googled the phrase "spiritual, but not religious".
The first link, I get:
http://www.sbnr.org/
The holiday banner says, "All religions contain some wisdom, but no one religion contains all wisdom".
I'm not inferring by quoting this website that you in fact believe this, but it seems to me that in your statement that you believe that spirituality is more important that one's set of beliefs, as these artists you claim may have been more spiritual than us Catholics.
Is there a possibility that there is such a thing as true and false spirituality? I can't say for sure.
Let's get a definition of spirituality.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spirituality
the state or quality of being dedicated to God, religion, or spiritual things or values, esp as contrasted with material or temporal ones
Proceeding with this definition I can claim that the Saints have been the most spiritual of all individuals the world has ever seen.
Im not an export on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, but I just looked a little bit abt it now and it claims its not a religion or a substitute for one and encourages a belief in some kind of God, Whether it be the Trinity, God for Jєωιѕн people, Allah, Budha, or Hindu beliefs, whatever. And I firmly believe that any religion that tells ppl to do right and reject sin is the True God speaking, whether its Budhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. It seems to me that the Church views on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ have more to do on fearing what they misunderstand than anything.
Do you believe that there is only one true God?
If so, do you profess that the Holy Trinity is this God?
If so, do you agree that the encouragement in the belief in any opposing god would be to encourage the belief in a false god (thereby leading to the worship of a false god)?
The problem with the statement taken at face value:
And I firmly believe that any religion that tells ppl to do right and reject sin is the True God speaking
is that it would appear that the religion, so long as it tells people to do right and reject sin, is to be taken as a whole as true.
However, I don't believe you mean to say that.
When you say the "True God speaking" I would understand that you mean not like when God spoke to Moses, but it was as if it were God speaking through the individuals in other religions when they tell people to do right and reject sin.
I would say that this accounts not for God "speaking", but such precepts are there due to primitive revelation given to our first parents by God, which has not been wholly corrupted.
I'm curious, you believe the following propositions to be true:
Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.
Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation.
Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ.
What first comes to mind when I think of the fruits of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ is that of religious indifferentism.
Looking over catholicapologetics.info I found this book:
Grand Orient Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ Unmasked by Monsignor Dillon
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ/masonry.pdf
I have not read it, but if it has the recommendation of Fr. Fahey it must be good.
You wrote further:
All I know is, I think the judging on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ is just fearing what the church doesn't understand, and thinking its a threat to power.
It's hard to believe that a Catholic would think that papal encyclicals are ever written due to fear or a perceived "threat to power" and not out a love of truth, justice, and in diligence to guard the flock of Christ.
Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; (. . .)
And just to tell everyone the church is far from perfect itself. I mean its run by humans who sin. And its not very democratic a lot of the time either. I mean, just a while back they didnt want people reading the Bible and possibly interpret something in their own way. Why? B/c it would be a threat to their power over the Church.
The Church is a hierarchy, not a democracy.
Where do you get your sources, it's as if you've swallowed Protestant propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
This is required reading for you:
Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church by the Right Rev. Graham
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm
I'm sure most Catholics on this forum have read this, and so should you.
Just like when Martin Luther fought against the selling of indulgences (which was clearly wrong selling them), he was excommunicated because he was a threat to the church's power.
The selling of indulgences was rightly condemned, but Luther was not excommunicated because of he was a threat to the Church's power, but because he was an obstinate heretic.
His refusal to submit to the teachings of the Church and his propagation of many heretical teachings:
Denial of free will, justification by faith alone, Sacred Scripture as the sole authority in religious matters, interpretation of the Bible belongs to each individual, the denial of seven sacraments (retaining only two), etc.
Heresy kills the soul; his excommunication was a warning to all Catholics to avoid him and his writings.
He encouraged the sacking of monasteries, convents, and churches. He revolted against both temporal and spiritual authorities. The fruit of his rebellion brought on the 30 Years War.
For easy reading I suggest the book, Church History by Fr. Laux, concerning the whole scope of ecclesiastical history.
Why did we go on crusades and kill tons of people? Why did the pope at those times lead troops into battle (which Christianity began as a pacifist religion... seems the church took it completely south, huh?) and the pope had mistresses living with him? Power. And that makes the very great possibilty of the church's corruption. Those who gain power are afraid to lose it. That has been shown in the church many a time.
I cannot comment on the Crusades as I have not read up on them.
However, as to your claim that Christianity began as a pacifist religion:
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3040.htm#article1
Augustine says in a sermon on the son of the centurion [Ep. ad Marcel. cxxxviii]: "If the Christian Religion forbade war altogether, those who sought salutary advice in the Gospel would rather have been counselled to cast aside their arms, and to give up soldiering altogether. On the contrary, they were told: 'Do violence to no man . . . and be content with your pay' [Luke 3:14. If he commanded them to be content with their pay, he did not forbid soldiering."
As for certain popes having had mistresses, the Church does not teach that popes are impeccable, that is not capable of sin. Unfortunately, there have been popes who have not lived up to their name as Christians and this is due to our common fallen nature.
I disagree that "power corrupts". I'd say it's the love of power that corrupts. Just as money isn't intrinsically bad, but it is the love of money that corrupts.
And so I found that I disagree with some things the church says. But I am still in line with what Jesus says. What I disagree with is the stuff that is taught from humans that claim to be (but weren't influenced by God. My point is this: You need to stop thinking that whatever you are told is automatically true. Think, Pray, and Discover the truth for yourself. That's the only way to find truths. The plan I have (and I am becoming more spiritual all the time) is to read all different religious writings: The whole Bible, the Quaran, Budhist and Hindu wrtings, etc. God reveals himself through all religions that support right over wrong.
On matters of faith and morals we are not permitted to disagree with the teachings of the Church.
I find it ironic that you state "What I disagree with is the stuff that is taught from humans that claim to be (but weren't influenced by God.", but are quite willing to read non-Christian texts in search of spirituality (there's that term again) as if Muhammad, Buddha, and the Brahmans were inspired by God.
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The statement from you, bob, that there isn't really anything wrong with Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. as long as they tell people to do right basically has just labeled you as a heretic. And you are wasting your time sticking up for music from all these artists. You don't think the Rolling Stones are satanic? Sorry, but you are a big step behind everyone else on this subject.
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Never mind just the possible subliminal messages. Most of the time the words themselves are diabolically disordered, if not blatantly sinful.
God is all good things to infinite perfection. One of those things will be, if you want to put it this way, "sanity" or order or reason. Lyrics that are frankly bizarre or downright insane, cannot (I think) be good for us. If nothing else, they train the mind to ignore the words themselves, and the meanings of the words, and just mindlessly listen to things simply on the grounds that "the song sounds good" to us.
Ignoring what is going into our minds and hearts is the opposite of what any Catholic should do when listening to music. What they should be doing (as with safeguarding any other sense of ours) is to be very, very mindful of everything so that we are not led into sin or error, or be poisoned by sinful or false or evil things. If nonsensical, weird music makes us just tune out the words and "enjoy" ... that is basically programming that teaches us NOT to listen or be careful of what we are taking in. And that certainly IS something bad.
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Why did we go on crusades and kill tons of people?
Oh, Bob, bob, bob, bob...
Think outside the box for just a moment here...
What was the setting for the New Testament?
(Palestine in the 1st century A.D.)
Where did Christianity begin?
(Same answer as above.)
To what religion did the inhabitants of Palestine belong between the time of Christ and about the eighth century A.D.?
(Judaism, Christianity, Greco-Roman paganism, tribal paganism until about the fourth century; after that, Christianity became the majority religion.)
What happened to the majority native Christian population starting in the eighth century?
(It was slaughtered, enslaved, or forcibly converted by the Muslim invaders.)
Why did Pope Urban send warriors to fight in the First Crusade?
(To rescue the native population and its historical territory from the Muslim invaders.)
So, it looks as if the Pope started a crusade (at the request of the Byzantine Emperor, by the way) in order to free the NATIVES who were being oppressed by bloodthirsty intruders. Hmmm.....sounds like a pretty Christian thing to do to me.
Or do you believe that Islam is a "religion of peace"? If so, I would like to introduce you to the Internet, the television set, the radio, and the newspaper.
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These views are coming from a Christian, who may not be the best Christian in many of your judgemental eyes, but as far as when I pray during the day everyday, seems to be in a pretty good relationship with Jesus.
Bob, (may I call you Bob?) how do you know you're in a good relationship with Jesus? Certainly you can't believe that just because you feel good or your prayers feel good that that means that you are in a good relationship with God? I'm pretty sure that Hitler, or Stalin, or Charles Manson, or any other boogeyman you would care to mention, also felt that they had a pretty good relationship to God. Did they? Did their works please God?
So, how do we know if we are in a good relationship with God? Does God want us to wander around confused all the time?
You see, God is our Father. He is our Parent. If you have ever been a parent, you know that you want your children to know that you love them, and for them to know when they are doing right and when they are doing wrong. God lets us know that He loves us by creating us, by protecting us, and by having made Himself a man, a poor man who was ultimately falsely accused, arrested, imprisoned, tortured, and executed, in order to redeem us from our own sins.
God lets us know right from wrong by giving us rules to follow and by creating a Church, as is clear from reading the New Testament, to guide us and govern us. This Church, the only Church with 2,000 years of history behind Her, is the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church. God instituted this Church through St. Peter and the other eleven Apostles, as detailed in Matthew 25, John 19 and 20, the Acts of the Apostles, and St. Paul's letters to the Corinthians and the Hebrews, among others. He instituted this Church in order that we would not be confused as to what God wanted, and just like He did in Old Testament times, He put human men and women in charge of this Church to lead Her and to teach others.
Therefore, in order to be in a good relationship with Jesus, we have to rely on more than our own personal feelings. Jesus did not leave us orphans (John 14:18) but instead founded an institution with rules and a hierarchy which He guides through the Holy Spirit. Following the requirements of that Church is the way we know that we are right with God.
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Let me be the first to award bob with an I. Ciao baby.
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Bob, let's address a few things here.
1.- I called you a heretic for your comment that there was nothing wrong with other religions as long as they told people to do the right thing. If there is nothing wrong with other religions, then why does the Bible say that gods of the pagans are devils? You can get out your Bible and look it up if you don't belive me.
2.- What religion are you? Are you Catholic or Protestant? The reason I ask is because anytime someone gives Luther an excuse for breaking away from the Church, it waves a red flag. There was no crisis in the Church at the time Luther decided to leave. Luther was insane and anyone who follows his heretic teachings is a heretic themselves.
3.- How come you don't think it's possible for satanic messages to be put in songs? It's certainly possible. When you say that most people in the world would agree with you that the Rolling Stones are NOT satanic, it would be accurate to say most of the secular world that is full of atheists, communists, etc. I have yet to see one person here defend the Stones. Even the modernists on Catholic Answers were aware that the Stones' music is satanic.
4.- You've been bringing up Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ alot. What's your stance on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ?
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I have actually heard Jimmy Page sing the demo. It was played by Jim Ladd over KLOS in Aug 1988 or 89. He was singing the words of GI as he played it. R Plant writes the lyrics later. It sounded a bit like John singing the demo of Strawberry Fields or George's demo of WMGGW.
The version linked to is not what started the 'rumor'.
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I heard it myself and it was not the version you linked to. It's easy enough to find the sheet music to the tunes if you can't hear it.
Eleanor by the Turtles is a new melody over the Happy Together chords. Try singing one to the other. Page may heave made a change or 2 but that is where the chord seq comes from. Charles Parker's Ornithology is another one. it was on the chords of How High The Moon.
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1.- bob, you say that paganism is the only false religion that is evil. But when the Bible says that gods of the pagans are devils, it isn't just talking about the pagans. The Bible is refering to all of those religions. Buddhism, Hinduism, the Islam and Muslim religions, etc. God is not behind those religions. You saying He is makes no sense. Why would God endorse a religion that doesn't even profess Him as the Creator? Fact is, the devil created every single one of those religions. The devil always adds a small fraction of truth to everything to have people fooled. So when such a religion "tells people to do good" that is the devil's trap that so many people fall into. If you asked an SSPX priest about his thoughts on the subject, I think he would agree with what I just said.
2.- If you don't think Luther was insane, then perhaps you should read his writtings. This is a disturbing subject so I'm not going to go into full details, but Luther was obssessed not only with the devil, but with the bathroom. He talked about the bathroom incessantly in many of his writtings. He also declared the Pope the Anti-Christ, and Luther had numerous visions of the devil. That right there is the definition of insanity. Don't think what I just said is true? Look it up. You'll see it's true. And no, he shouldn't have tried to fix any abuses in the Church, because there were very few of them at the time. He didn't break away because of abuses, he broke away because he thought his viewpoints were better.
3.- That Roman Catholic priest who was into rock music was probably an NO priest. And as you will soon learn during your stay here, no one here likes the Novus Ordo Mass (or NO for short). We all prefer the Traditional Latin Mass.
4.- Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ IS evil. Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ is basically devil worship.
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4. Like I've said, I really don't know much about Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ to have strong feelings about it. I have only skimmed through a few general things about it, but I havent read up enough to actually try to argue for or against it.
:scratchchin: shouldnt a Catholic know more about it then that? :smirk:
you seem to have a lot of opinions on other things....
(is this what happens when FE forum is down?? :laugh1: )
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1.- bob, you say that paganism is the only false religion that is evil. But when the Bible says that gods of the pagans are devils, it isn't just talking about the pagans. The Bible is refering to all of those religions. Buddhism, Hinduism, the Islam and Muslim religions, etc. God is not behind those religions. You saying He is makes no sense. Why would God endorse a religion that doesn't even profess Him as the Creator? Fact is, the devil created every single one of those religions. The devil always adds a small fraction of truth to everything to have people fooled. So when such a religion "tells people to do good" that is the devil's trap that so many people fall into. If you asked an SSPX priest about his thoughts on the subject, I think he would agree with what I just said.
2.- If you don't think Luther was insane, then perhaps you should read his writtings. This is a disturbing subject so I'm not going to go into full details, but Luther was obssessed not only with the devil, but with the bathroom. He talked about the bathroom incessantly in many of his writtings. He also declared the Pope the Anti-Christ, and Luther had numerous visions of the devil. That right there is the definition of insanity. Don't think what I just said is true? Look it up. You'll see it's true. And no, he shouldn't have tried to fix any abuses in the Church, because there were very few of them at the time. He didn't break away because of abuses, he broke away because he thought his viewpoints were better.
3.- That Roman Catholic priest who was into rock music was probably an NO priest. And as you will soon learn during your stay here, no one here likes the Novus Ordo Mass (or NO for short). We all prefer the Traditional Latin Mass.
4.- Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ IS evil. Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ is basically devil worship.
:cheers:
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If it weren't for the crusades, we would all be speaking Arabic, pounding our heads and shouting for Allah!
well put, it was Catholics, mostly on our own, that defended Europe, the Med, Balkins,etc.etc....
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And btw No I Know the Stones are not satanists, and most of the world I think would agree.
well that settles it-since you and he world agree and all :laugh1:
Is it beyond comprehension for you to think that the :devil2: moslty works quietly, as do his servants? So, only evil you see is blatent then? its either "good" or "in your face"...??
why is it then, that Fr. Corapi personally knew and saw rock groups do occult worship and dedicated their albums to :devil2:??
he talks a lot on the subtly of :devil2:, you may want to listen to him and Bishop Sheen, whom Corapi takes a lot of his style from........
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Zeppelin song .
really, not into occult? Here are a few good sites that refute that:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Rock-n-Roll/led_zeppelin.htm
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1957.cfm
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/lucifer-rising.htm
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The Stones, Who, Zep, Hendrix, Doors, and Eagles... man I have to defend everybody.
um, why is it up to you to defend the Worlds music?
I noticed to you had to add the disclaimer about how and how much you pray.....nice touch!!.....based on your posts, not imrpessed,either......
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I believe that the song Stairway to Heaven says 666 and Satan various times when played backwards as well.
-Vladimir
Stairway To Heaven backwards have satanic messaging? Every time I hear that I feel its possibly the dumbest thing I ever heard. You people who go around saying "Yeah, I think these artists (typically rock and roll - do I sense prejudice?) are satanists" are real hypocrites. You never even met the eople and your judging them. Have you ever listened to Stairway to Heaven going forward? Well let me tell you its a very positive song. You people going around looking for evil and find it only where you want to find it. I bet I could play a recording of some of your average church choir and organ music backwards and find satanic messaging in it. What matters is the songs forward. I'm a Christian and I KNOW that I've had a more intimate and spiritual experience during a guitar solo by jimmy page or jerry garcia than I ever had with the average plastic coated church songs. Yeah, a lot of the rock stars had sex and did drugs. But they didn't ever kill anyone or seriously hurt anyone. Most Christians treat sex and drugs as if they are 1000 times more evil than killing. And, if evil at all, then they are 1000 times less evil thhan any type of violence or even just treating others wrong. And treating others wrong is exactly what you're doing by judging all these people and their God-given artistic skill. Their music I know has helped more kids than extremist Christian's fire and brimstone, "God is gonna send all you rotten kids to hell," and "the devil is possesing everyone" rnts and raves. God is a merciful and loving God and doesn't want to send anyone to hell. The Prodigal Son is the most powerful and arguably one of the most important parts of the Bible. The other most important is that Jesus died for our sins, again showing God's mercy. And its the same merciful and loving God that created all people. So for you people to go around assuming that an entire group of people (ie rock and roll artists) are trying to get kids to worship the devil is just ridiculous. I heard somewhere a little while ago someone responded to some article online the following quote: "There's nothing wrong with Christianity, but there is something wrong with a lot of Christians." I completely agree, that Christianity (in its raw form right from Jesus, not the now possibly and probably corrupt new teachings that have been made by humans who by nature sin, especially when in power to influence many others) is very good. But saying that there is something wrong with a lot of Christians is a legitimate argument. Although I don't know that I'd completely agree, because I don'tlike to judge people, but I do agree and will judge the actions of a lot of Christians. Many Christians are the most judgemental people I ever met. They think they are so righteous and anyone who doesn't follow exactly what their told is a horrible, lower than life thing. This is completely against what Jesus taught. And this is the kind of thing that gives Christianity an (unfairly gained, to the religion itself) bad reputation, judging others. Just because people don't believe exactly what those in power try to shove into their brains and hearts doesn't make them bad or satanists. On the contrary, people that try to find their own way spiritually are truly stronger in faith than those who listen constantly to humans in power and not to Jesus himself. These views are coming from a Christian, who may not be the best Christian in many of your judgemental eyes, but as far as when I pray during the day everyday, seems to be in a pretty good relationship with Jesus.
And anyway, back to the Stairway thing check out this website I found, The guy who wrote this was a good inspiration: http://www.sunsetwestproductions.com/forever/stairway.htm
And sorry to rant and rave so long, But the whole backmasking gets me very worked up, especially hen its about a very talented and artistic group such as Led Zeppelin.
after this thread laid dormant since March 2010, here you come to educate us all... :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
that has been happening a lot lately.....old threads dug up to attack and defend worldly issues......
Bob-are you a former CAF or FE poster??
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Mr Roman Catholic Guy, you are doing exactly what Jesus said not to do.
ah-so predictable, using "Jesus is a nice guy that told us all to loooove each other and do good" approach......but you did not address RC's post about the nude children,etc........not at all....though admittedly, your long drawn out posts defending the World may have fried me a bit......
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roscoe,
hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
My Man!
Roscoe, you have a fan and ally against the anti-Pot "Jansenists" :laugh1:, oh, this is so :facepalm: :sad: :barf:
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I'm not trying to attack people...
Before you Judge people, DON'T
:laugh2:
Have you read your posts?
true, he is judging us-and wonder if he "judges" people before he invites them into his home, around his family, into his life,etc....or does he wander the streets with a big "victim" sign on him??
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It's entirely tragic how, when people bring attention to music, some people get so defensive. Where does this come from?
Some people here have done some research on the music, and so, to say we're "judging" is inaccurate.
It's entirely idiotic to accuse someone of "judging" someone else when that person is likely discerning through their conscience and what they already know to be bad.
If I saw a Satanist dressed in all Gothic clothes, with a pentagram around his neck and 666 on the back of his t-shirt, and a goathead on the front of his shirt, WHAT DO YOU THINK I'M GOING TO ASSUME?
"Oh but YOU can't 'JUDGE' him because you don't 'KNOW' him."
If it smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what? It's probably a DUCK!
This world, aptly said by vigilant citizen, is ruled by symbols, and meanings masked. Well, if you choose NOT to pay attention to those things, you're allowing your mind to be fed things that you don't even realize it's being fed, and if you have no problem with that, continue on your merry little way, but wise people say that you're wrong, and you're affecting your subconscious, stupidly.
All I gotta say is-- "You've been warned."
http://vigilantcitizen.com
well stated and to your first question about why touchy about music, maybe Bob is Right Brained...
that said, some are touchy when their idols are attacked ( :devil2: )
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The selling of indulgences was rightly condemned, but Luther was not excommunicated because of he was a threat to the Church's power, but because he was an obstinate heretic.
Bob sounds like my dad-quick to blame the RCC for Luther and the Prot Revolt....Dad beleives whatever anti-Catholic pablem is promoted on the History Channel, too....
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Mr Roman Catholic Guy, you are doing exactly what Jesus said not to do.
ah-so predictable, using "Jesus is a nice guy that told us all to loooove each other and do good" approach......but you did not address RC's post about the nude children,etc........not at all....though admittedly, your long drawn out posts defending the World may have fried me a bit......
read the Bible Bob, esp OT-Christ is, was and always will be a DIVINE WARRIOR-not a long haired peacenik ala 60's
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Bob, obviously you are not familiar enough with satanism to identify it. Do some research as to what satan/lucifer is to his common worshipers. George hαɾɾιson was NOT singing about Christ when he wrote "My Sweet lord".
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nor where they singing about the BVM in "Let it Be", mother mary= :smoke-pot: (hey, Roscoe...er,never mind)