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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Matthew on July 28, 2011, 03:49:36 PM
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I was discussing stereotypes on another forum:
So in your mind, because one potentially false stereotype fails, most stereotypes can't be false? Outside the US there are plenty of stereotypes about Americans - are all those true?
If they hold any water, yes.
Too many people today are brainwashed by "political correctness".
Think about it RATIONALLY -- why do stereotypes refuse to die? The one about women liking to shop? The one about software engineers being male? The one about "boy bands" having vapid lyrics? The one about sports fans not being deep-thinking philosophers? The one about Americans being smug, not learning other languages, and being materialistic and taking on too much debt? I could list dozens of them.
If they had no basis in reality, they would die quickly. But they have quite a basis in reality.
They're a shortcut to complete analysis, yes. But a shortcut that works MOST of the time, with few exceptions.
We make all kinds of assumptions all day, every day. You don't always have the time for a fair, objective, in-depth analysis of everything.
I'm sorry, but if were a hiring manager, and there were three people applying for a software engineering job, named Amanda Jones, Deshawn White, and Wolfgang Wattenburg, and I didn't have access to any information than their names, I'd probably do the "un-PC" thing and choose the German-sounding guy. True, he might be the one exception to the stereotype, and the female might be particularly good at programming -- but it's usually smart to go with the odds.
And remember -- the exception proves the rule. Just because you can show me a single female computer programmer will not cause me to throw my hands in the air and say, "You're right, there's no pattern. Programmers are male and female." No, you merely showed me an exception, which is remarkable because it's an exception to the rule.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Matthew. Stereotypes are true if they're true? We can't know a generalization "holds water" until we actually examine it - go beyond mere generalization - at which point we no longer have a stereotype.
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I'm just saying
"Show me a persistent stereotype, and I'll show you a statement that is true more often than not."
I'm sure the Media could consistently propagate error via things like TV and movies, but even then they'd be swimming upstream -- only the powerful engine the media possesses would be able to counter the downstream motion of the water.
Does anyone have a commonly believed (by many different people, in many different places/times) stereotype that's complete hogwash?
I don't think such a thing exists.
I'm saying that stereotypes are a hat-rack or practical tool that people use to make real life judgments/actions more convenient.
If judgments/actions based on stereotypes blew up in their face more often than not, people wouldn't use them.
Matthew
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Archtypical example of a stereotype-- MJ smokers are lazy hippies who end up heroin junkies listening to Bob Marley. :roll-laugh1:
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Archtypical example of a stereotype-- MJ smokers are lazy hippies who end up heroin junkies listening to Bob Marley. :roll-laugh1:
And I'm sure many MJ smokers were just that -- or the stereotype wouldn't have been created (and sustained).
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I can only speak for myself and am not 'sure' about the rest of mankind.
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it is in man's nature to stereotype, at least from what I see. I think it's really a survival thing; you can make quick decisions about what is safe and what is not. I myself have been under the influence of a lot of really good old people, so I naturally feel safe around older people. I like them more than I even like my own peer group. I stereotype older people as being nice and warm-hearted.
However, I sure hope that stereotype about catholic priests isn't so on the mark...............
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Which stereotype is that?
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Card Sharks and Game Theorists learn to stereotype everyone as a matter of making money, if they were wrong they'd lose money. When I'm at a Poker game I stereotype everyone until proven wrong wherefore I re-stereotype them with the new information and play them accordingly.
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Liberals live to prove stereotypes wrong.
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If stereotypes were not true then jokes would not be funny.
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I can only speak for myself and am not 'sure' about the rest of mankind.
You're one of a kind, Roscoe, I'm sure all of us can agree on that. :)
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I was referring to the subject of your remark only-- MJ users. It is of course true that MJ( like any other substance) can be abused.
As far as jokes being funny-- this is a matter of opinion.
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What do you do if an Irish man throws a grenade at you?
Take the pin out and throw it back!
Are most Irish people really that stupid??
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What do you do if an Irish man throws a grenade at you?
Take the pin out and throw it back!
Are most Irish people really that stupid??
BWAHAHA!
Whats funny is the main joke part, not the Irish part because I just don't understand Irish being more stupid than other nationalities.
I have to use this one now.
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Whats funny is the main joke part, not the Irish part because I just don't understand Irish being more stupid than other nationalities.
So, have I stumbled upon a false stereotype?
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Whats funny is the main joke part, not the Irish part because I just don't understand Irish being more stupid than other nationalities.
So, have I stumbled upon a false stereotype?
I think so, but I don't know how prevalent that stereotype is. I've never heard it. Are you sure they didn't pull the pin out of stupidity? Maybe it's because they were drinking. Now that joke I would understand!
I think there's something to stereotypes but it's tough to apply in everyday life because they are sooo broad that many people don't fall into them. While I believe stereotypes have something to them, I'd be offended if someone applied a stereotype to me without knowing me. So I try to extend the same courtesy of refraining from applying them to others unless they act or admit to falling into it.
Proof to me that they exist and hold truth is that marketers use them to make money. And they're pretty successful at it. But then again they are targeting masses of people and it's nothing one-on-one. In our daily living situations it's pretty tough to apply them without being personal and offensive.
At the same time, you have to wonder how much of it is self-fulfilling prophesy. How many Irish drink because they are Irish and that's what's expected of them? With Irish in-laws I hear that excuse all the time. Or how many Italians are attached to their wine and pasta precisely because that's what's supposedly Italian and they have to show loyalty to their country? You wonder how much of it is about indoctrinated culture. If an Italian by blood were raised in England and didn't know they were Italian, would they still have a taste for the Mediterranean or would they be all about the shepherd's pie and proper formalities?
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Are most Irish people really that stupid??
Are ANY?
No, unless they were sent to an English boarding school to be educated -- :laugh1:
Seriously, the English of the last few centuries do not tend to have a great deal of respect for the historically-Catholic Irish, nor the intellectual capacity of a people given to "Popery."
The Poles tend to get a bad rap, too, but they are generally VERY intelligent -- but also historically Catholic and looked down upon by those who "broke free" from the "chains" of Popery and priestcraft.
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I always thought the Irish were thought to be intelligent since they have produced a lot of great scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, etc.
(I swear I"m not pointing this out because my family's from Ireland)
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The English Are Best (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8&feature=player_embedded)
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Best at what? Letting the Rothschilds set up their HQ, whence they ply their trade and annihilate Christendom and all that is good in this poor world? LOL!
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Clare --
I think the answer to your questions is: It's not a stereotype; more like a nation-biased joke. You're in England; England has been the enemy of Ireland for centuries.
In fact, I've heard the same joke, only it was applied to Polish people.
Strange; the only Polish people I've met have been plenty smart. The priest where I grew up was Polish and knew several languages.
The FACTS are that Irish folk are above-average intelligent (assuming they don't vitiate their advantage with too much alcohol). A disproportionate number of priests and missionaries were Irish (in the Fifties, for example). And back then, you had to learn more languages than just Latin to graduate from the Seminary. I'm sure we can all agree that becoming a priest takes some serious mental ability.
So A) it's not a stereotype, strictly speaking, but more like wishful thinking :)
and B) it's not widespread or pervasive, being held ONLY among the population of a country's main rival.
I think if any belief/stereotype is only held by a country's rival, we can rule out any truth :)
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Best at what? Letting the Rothschilds set up their HQ, whence they ply their trade and annihilate Christendom and all that is good in this poor world? LOL!
Did you click on the link? It's a song full of stereotypes!
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Yes, you could be right, Matthew.
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Clare --
I think the answer to your questions is: It's not a stereotype; more like a nation-biased joke. You're in England; England has been the enemy of Ireland for centuries.
Ah, the joke does make more sense with that in mind.
Americans pick on Poles and Canadians pick on "Newfies". I don't have experience with who(m?) other countries pick on.
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What do you do if an Irish man throws a grenade at you?
Take the pin out and throw it back!
Are most Irish people really that stupid??
That's really the first time I've heard it suggested that the Irish were dumb.
I think the common stereotype concerning Irish (as well as Scots) is that they are crazy. Since they are both Choleric in their temperament it's no wonder.
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I'm not really against stereotypes. They are fun.... except when they're not, haha. (I am thinking of one about Asian men and private parts here.)
Some stereotypes, however, are very outdated. Example: "most people who play video games are teenage boys". On the contrary, today the average gamer is 35, and thanks to the Wii and casual Internet games, there are technically more female gamers than males. The stereotype has been around since the 1980's, but that means that now, an entire generation has grown up with video games. It's only a matter of time before games become as mainstream as the film medium. It's already an increasingly common practice for major actors like Patrick Stewart and Martin Sheen to do voice acting for some games.
Another strange, outdated stereotype is the idea that men with hair past the shoulder are hippies. I have a ponytail now, and I don't think I've ever even met a real hippie in my entire life. They probably don't like Texas very much.
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Did you click on the link? It's a song full of stereotypes!
No, but I will...
I may even have to compose and sing me own version...or perhaps we can do some kind of unofficial "cathinfo medley" musical video that has snippets from many different posters... :laugh1:
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The English Are Best (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8&feature=player_embedded)
Thanks, clare...that was delightful! :laugh1:
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I'm not really against stereotypes. They are fun.... except when they're not, haha. (I am thinking of one about Asian men and private parts here.)
Some stereotypes, however, are very outdated. Example: "most people who play video games are teenage boys". On the contrary, today the average gamer is 35, and thanks to the Wii and casual Internet games, there are technically more female gamers than males. The stereotype has been around since the 1980's, but that means that now, an entire generation has grown up with video games. It's only a matter of time before games become as mainstream as the film medium. It's already an increasingly common practice for major actors like Patrick Stewart and Martin Sheen to do voice acting for some games.
Another strange, outdated stereotype is the idea that men with hair past the shoulder are hippies. I have a ponytail now, and I don't think I've ever even met a real hippie in my entire life. They probably don't like Texas very much.
That's a good point.
Some stereotypes, while containing truth at one point, have become invalid over time because the stereotype takes on a "life of its own" (or inertia), and people are slow to update their thinking.
Then again, the evidence you gave just suggests that this stereotype could possibly die one day.
When you look at how they market games, they must be still primarily male. I've purchased many video cards in the past couple months (for Bitcoin mining) and they *all* have a strange warrior woman on the box -- usually toting guns and armor.
I read an interesting "humor" article on this topic (how male gamers are still immature, etc.) but I can't link to it because the article has some really bad pics in it. If you really want it you could probably find it.
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Aye, the sector of gaming that demands advanced PC hardware (in the form of graphics cards/GPU's), and the know-how to install them, is definitely male-dominated. That relates to the stereotype you mentioned in the first post about computer programmers being male. It's absolutely true that most computer-literate people are male. My betrothed (who is in my avatar beside me, BTW) graduated from an IT tech school and is a certified Adobe instructor... but is clueless about PC hardware.
However, for every dude with an Xbox 360 or a gaming-class PC, there are probably 5 women (ranging from teenagers to housewives and beyond) who play Wii games with their kids, Farmville on Facebook, or really simple stuff like that. Thus, as a whole there are more female gamers than male... but the high-end or "hardcore" game market is still male-dominated.
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Americans pick on Poles and Canadians pick on "Newfies". I don't have experience with who(m?) other countries pick on.
FYI: "With whom" is the correct usage. In this case, "whom" is the object of the preposition "with" so it is in the objective case.