Author Topic: Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???  (Read 5031 times)

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Offline TheRealMcCoy

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Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
« on: January 03, 2016, 04:31:57 AM »
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  • The SSPX put out new mass instruction cards that state for High Mass during the Pater Noster, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei we are to stand.  There's also instructions for bowing.  

    Thoughts?

    Offline poche

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 04:45:02 AM »
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  • I was taught to bow at the mention of Jesus' name.


    Offline OHCA

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 05:23:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    The SSPX put out new mass instruction cards that state for High Mass during the Pater Noster, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei we are to stand.  There's also instructions for bowing.  

    Thoughts?


    Synchronization with new church.  New church stands during all of those points and they all have group participation which is better when standing.  Also, the glad-handing occurs between the Pater Noster and the Agnus Dei--you certainly can't be kneeling and running up and down the aisle fellowshipping at the same time.

    I perceive what you describe as a gradual adjustment in preparation for new church and its inherent man-worship.

    Offline OHCA

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 05:25:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    I was taught to bow at the mention of Jesus' name.


    Pre-Vaticam II or post?  In the context of the true Mass or the bastardized version?

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 05:32:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    I was taught to bow at the mention of Jesus' name.


    Yes I bow my head anytime with the mention of the Holy Name, in or out of Mass.

    They want us to bow to the priest during Mass.  Sorry for the confusion.


    Offline clare

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #5 on: January 03, 2016, 07:17:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    The SSPX put out new mass instruction cards that state for High Mass during the Pater Noster, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei we are to stand.

    That's normal for High Masses, isn't it?

    Offline Peter15and1

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 07:53:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    The SSPX put out new mass instruction cards that state for High Mass during the Pater Noster, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei we are to stand.  There's also instructions for bowing.  

    Thoughts?


    We've always stood for these parts at High Mass.  Not at Low Mass, however.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #7 on: January 03, 2016, 09:01:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    The SSPX put out new mass instruction cards that state for High Mass during the Pater Noster, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei we are to stand.  There's also instructions for bowing.  

    Thoughts?


    Synchronization with new church.  New church stands during all of those points and they all have group participation which is better when standing.  Also, the glad-handing occurs between the Pater Noster and the Agnus Dei--you certainly can't be kneeling and running up and down the aisle fellowshipping at the same time.

    I perceive what you describe as a gradual adjustment in preparation for new church and its inherent man-worship.


    No... If I remember correctly, that's quite normal for High Mass. That's how it's been for a while.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #8 on: January 03, 2016, 09:18:38 AM »
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  • We've not been doing it.  I wondered if it was a new change.

    Offline Miseremini

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #9 on: January 03, 2016, 11:45:47 AM »
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  • The Father Lasance  New Roman Missal 1957 edition, has a wonderful chart on page 72 indicating the postures at ALL Masses. (If anyone has a copy and could post it, it would be worth while copying and printing for reference.  Sorry I don't know how)

    At EVERY Mass, Low, High, Requiem, Solemn, and Solemn Requiem, we are to KNEEL from the Sanctus till Communion.

    The SSPX has been trying to get us to stand for years, putting out new postures for Mass that are similar to the Novus Ordo.  

    Kneeling in reverence at this time makes sense.

     
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #10 on: January 03, 2016, 08:49:50 PM »
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  • At the St Louis chapel, we kneel during the Agnes Dei during High Mass.


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #11 on: January 03, 2016, 09:04:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Miseremini
    The Father Lasance  New Roman Missal 1957 edition, has a wonderful chart on page 72 indicating the postures at ALL Masses. (If anyone has a copy and could post it, it would be worth while copying and printing for reference.  Sorry I don't know how)

    At EVERY Mass, Low, High, Requiem, Solemn, and Solemn Requiem, we are to KNEEL from the Sanctus till Communion.

    The SSPX has been trying to get us to stand for years, putting out new postures for Mass that are similar to the Novus Ordo.  

    Kneeling in reverence at this time makes sense.

     


    Maybe the 1962 Missal - of some parts the SSPX uses, changed that, I don't know.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Dolores

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #12 on: January 03, 2016, 09:26:40 PM »
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  • As far as I am aware, the posture of the laity during Mass has never been been determined by the rubrics.  Rather, it was always a matter of custom.

    Offline nipr

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #13 on: January 03, 2016, 11:20:48 PM »
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  • I was raised before Vatican II and taught by Sisters.  We always knelt from the Sanctus to Communion.  I remember it vividly because as a child it seemed like such a long time to kneel and the Sisters would not let us lean back and rest against the seat of the pew behind us--we had to kneel perfectly straight and not move about because this was the holiest part of the Mass and deserved our full attention while in a position of humility before God.

    We bowed our head when we genuflected before entering a pew and again when genuflecting after leaving the pew after Mass.  Again, the bowing of the head was a sign of humility offered to God in the tabernacle.  We also made the Sign of the Cross while genuflecting.  We bowed our head at the Agnus Dei, the Confiteor, and at the Communion rail while awaiting our turn to receive the Host.  This time was spent in prayer as we tried our best to prepare our souls to receive God Almighty.  Upon returning to the pew after Communion, we knelt and bowed our head in prayer.  Everyone in church did this.  

    I have continued to do this all my life whether anyone else does it or not and whether they like it or not.  Nothing else seems proper to me when I am before God; and to me, that is what matters most.  I have felt conspicuous at times but I just try to keep my attention fixed on God and not on those around me.  I don't say this out of pride but rather to encourage those of you who feel so inclined to do as I do.  I've had priests stare at me, but not one of them has ever forbidden me to do this.  I just stare right back at them because I know what is right.

    Offline TKGS

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    Standing during Sanctus and Agnus Dei???
    « Reply #14 on: January 04, 2016, 06:12:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dolores
    As far as I am aware, the posture of the laity during Mass has never been been determined by the rubrics.  Rather, it was always a matter of custom.


    This is correct.  There are no official rubrics for the laity.  Remember that pews are, in relative terms, an innovation of the 1300s.  The faithful did not have pews to sit in or kneelers to kneel upon for 600 years longer than they have had them.  

    Customs differ in this respect in different locations around the world.  Every English-language hand missal I've ever seen that specifies the customary posture of the faithful at Mass, and many of them are silent on the matter, says that the faithful kneel at the beginning of the Sanctus in both the high and the low Mass.

    Formal rubrics for the faithful is an innovation of the Novus Ordo and, in fact, is specifically identified.  In the Novus Ordo, the rubrics indicate that the faithful stand until the beginning of the "institution narrative".  Many English-speaking countries, however, have a indult from the Vatican to kneel after the Sanctus until the Amen.

    According to the SSPX priest who required the faithful to stand during the Sanctus at the chapel I used to attend said that this was a requirement of the SSPX because this is the French custom.


     

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