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Author Topic: St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.  (Read 1248 times)

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Offline Nishant

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    The Vatican has publicly unveiled bone fragments purportedly belonging to Saint Peter, reviving the scientific debate and tantalising mystery over whether the relics found in a shoe box truly belong to the first pope.

    The nine pieces of bone sat nestled like rings in a Jєωel box inside a bronze display case on the side of the altar during a mass commemorating the end of the Vatican's year-long celebration of the Christian faith. It was the first time they had ever been exhibited in public.

    Pope Francis prayed before the fragments at the start of Sunday's service and clutched the case in his arms for several minutes after his homily.

    No pope has ever definitively declared the fragments to belong to the apostle Peter, but Pope Paul VI in 1968 said fragments found in the necropolis under St Peter's Basilica were "identified in a way that we can consider convincing".

    Some archaeologists dispute the finding.

    The relics were discovered during excavations begun under St Peter's Basilica in the years following the death in 1939 of Pope Pius XI, who had asked to be buried in the grottoes where dozens of popes are buried, according to the 2012 book by veteran Vatican correspondent Bruno Bartoloni, The Ears of the Vatican.

    During the excavations, archaeologists discovered a funerary monument with a casket built in honour of Peter and an engraving in Greek that read "Petros eni", or "Peter is here".

    The scholar of Greek antiquities Margherita Guarducci, who had deciphered the engraving, continued to investigate and learned that one of the basilica workers had been given the remains found inside the casket and stored them in a shoe box kept in a cupboard. She reported her findings to Paul VI, who later proclaimed there was a convincing argument that the bones belonged to Peter.

    Leading Vatican Jesuits and other archaeologists strongly denied the claim, but had little recourse.

    "No pope had ever permitted an exhaustive study, partly because a 1,000-year-old curse attested by secret and apocalyptic docuмents, threatened anyone who disturbed the peace of Peter's tomb with the worst possible misfortune," Bartoloni wrote.

    The Vatican newspaper, l'Osservatore Romano, published excerpts of the book last year, giving his account a degree of official sanction.

    In 1971, Paul VI was given an urn containing the relics, which were kept inside the private papal chapel inside the apostolic palace and exhibited for the pope's private veneration every 29 June, for the feast of saints Peter and Paul. Sunday marked the first time they were shown in public.

    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline Solidus

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 01:58:44 PM »
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    "No pope had ever permitted an exhaustive study, partly because a 1,000-year-old curse attested by secret and apocalyptic docuмents, threatened anyone who disturbed the peace of Peter's tomb with the worst possible misfortune," Bartoloni wrote.


    Considering Paul VI led the destruction of the Church and considering that Francis has already destroyed more papal traditions than Paul VI could've ever dreamed of, this showing of St. Peter's relics makes me think something bad will happen.

    The end of the year of the [conciliar] faith will bring about the end of the [conciliar] faith? I don't know. I'm probably looking way too into it but considering Francis' hell bent path of destruction against the papacy via collegiality and democracy, this may be a symbolic beginning of the Francis regime. The October revolution starts next year. Time to replace those triumphalist mitres with the pastoral ushanka!


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 03:43:57 AM »
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    If you can't say anything nice............

    ............Too bad the first time in history the bones of our beloved first Pope are on display in the Vatican and I can't think of 'anything nice to say' about it.  


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    Offline ggreg

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 05:40:54 AM »
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  • What is this curse and how secret are these 1000 old apocalyptic docuмents?

    Sounds like the basis for another Dan Brown novel.

    Offline StCeciliasGirl

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 09:55:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    What is this curse and how secret are these 1000 old apocalyptic docuмents?

    Sounds like the basis for another Dan Brown novel.


    Good, old trusty examiner.com says HuffPo relayed curse, but I think the NYPost picked it up first (or best?):

    Quote from: NY Post
    The relics were discovered during excavations begun under St. Peter’s Basilica in the years following the 1939 death of Pope Pius XI, who had asked to be buried in the grottoes where dozens of popes are buried, according to the 2012 book by veteran Vatican correspondent Bruno Bartoloni, “The Ears of the Vatican.”

    During the excavations, archaeologists discovered a funerary monument with a casket built in honor of Peter and an engraving in Greek that read “Petros eni,” or “Peter is here.”
    ...
    The scholar of Greek antiquities, Margherita Guarducci, who had deciphered the engraving continued to investigate and learned that one of the basilica workers had been given the remains found inside the casket and stored them in a shoe box kept in a cupboard. She reported her findings to Paul VI who later proclaimed that there was a “convincing” argument that the bones belonged to Peter.

    Top Vatican Jesuits and other archaeologists strongly denied the claim, but had little recourse.


     :laugh1: I love it. Imagine you're digging around the Vatican to plant a newly-dead Holy Father, but you find a box: "Huh, says here, 'Peter is HERE.'" His buddy says, "Dude, that might be some guy named Peter's TOYS! Ditch the fancy box, but take those cool marbles in there home and show the bambinos!" Worker agrees: "Sounds legit!"

    Montini: "Uh, the box said 'Peter is here'? But it's EMPTY! Okay, bring that mess BACK! Let's take a peek see!" [rubs hands together excitedly] "Might be some cool dude!"

    Worker's kid: "But papaaaaaa! They're MINE! I was playing marbles with them! My life's no fair!"

    Worker: "Son, have you SEEN the new 'holy father'? Those eyebrows? Give him the marbles! NOW! —Honey, pack up. We're moving to Spain."

    Montini gets the 9 marbles ("bone fragments", though they make them sound like rings in the articles), starts playing the marbles game, and SOMEWHERE IN HERE some "convincing apocalyptic docuмents" (read: "The Gospel of Brutus") is brought into the Vatican at TOP SPEED: "Hey! Don't mess with those! Brutus says that's BAD LUCK!"

    Montini: "Who dat?"

    Bugnini: "Brutus?! He was the 13th Secret Apostle! :O It's a GIANT BIG SECRET!"

    Montini screams in a high pitch and tosses his marbles.

    Apparently you have to buy Dan Brown's Bartoloni's book to read about the curse (I completely made up "the Gospel of Brutus" because I'm not giving Rome another dime ever and buying into that "secret apocalyptic" stuff from 1000 years ago.) BUT, the Post dropped some hints:

    Quote from: NY Post money quote from Bartoloni
    “No Pope had ever permitted an exhaustive study, partly because a 1,000-year-old curse attested by secret and apocalyptic docuмents, threatened anyone who disturbed the peace of Peter’s tomb with the worst possible misfortune,” Bartoloni wrote.


    I guess Bart's got the apocalyptic docuмents that are 1000 years old; I'm guessing "Gospel of Brutus" because it's only a thousand years old (not two thousand), and  Margherita didn't even care; just kept checking out the engraving ("Peter is here"), so no apocalyptic docuмents from the actual burial site. BUT!  :shocked: Montini was VERY CONVINCED of something, and let the 9 pieces of bone fragments get ...buried in the worker's shoebox.

    I imagine Frank is showing his power by walking around with the box. It's a bit creepy but whatever. The things of this world shall pass.
    Legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi

    +JMJ


    Offline ggreg

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 11:11:14 AM »
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  • If they found the bones in the late 1950s I would say the curse worked.

    But why St. Peter would want to curse the Church with the last 5 Popes I am not sure.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 03:29:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    If they found the bones in the late 1950s I would say the curse worked.

    But why St. Peter would want to curse the Church with the last 5 Popes I am not sure.


    They said the bones were found after the death of Pius XI, not the death of Pius XII.

    So that would be in the late 1930's, "years following the death in 1939 of Pope Pius XI."  And it would have been when they were "digging around" looking for a place to bury Pius XI ('eleventh').

    Therefore, the "curse" would have had to set on a shelf too, along with the first class relics of the Prince of the Apostles, waiting until the Third Secret of Fatima was NOT released when it should have been, then wait through the wave of putrid foul stream unclean spirit of Vat.II and the death of the THIRD pope (like THIRD Secret!) before they got around to Montini demanding the shoebox be returned to the rightful contents owners.  

    As for what St. Peter wanted, he's in heaven and he doesn't want anything that God first doesn't want.  So it's no longer a matter of what St. Peter would want but what God would want to do:  saddle the world with the last 5 popes, a spiritual chastisement.


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    Offline WalterMuzzy

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    St. Peters bones displayed for public veneration for the first time.
    « Reply #7 on: November 29, 2013, 03:20:05 PM »
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  • This is a past Usenet post of mine on sci.archaeology about the tomb, grave, bones and archaeological remains, it also contains quite a few interesting links pertaining to this site.

     https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.archaeology/Egmr9DFYE0A
     
    (OR)
     
    http://tinyurl.com/petermuzzy5