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Author Topic: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations  (Read 48129 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2019, 05:41:14 AM »

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Or put another way, since the new rites are open to interpretation, intention is no longer something that can be based on the external forum, but rather the internal forum--which makes it virtually impossible for anyone to determine which sacrament is valid and which one is not (except let's say Baptism, etc..)? 
Yes, this is my understanding.  The new rites, just like V2, are too ambiguous.  

Offline Stubborn

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2019, 06:42:42 AM »
During the interview, they determine whether proper matter and form were used during the NO ordination, but the primary concern is if the priest and / or bishop had the proper intention. Most often, it is this "proper intention" problem of the priest that determines whether or not the priest gets conditionally ordained.
I fixed it.

They seek to determine if the priest himself had the proper intention, Brent said that many NO priests did not have the proper intention at their ordination - that's due mainly to the way they were trained in their seminary - "some seminaries are known to be more problematic than others."

The only way to determine the intention of the bishop who performed the ordination is if he said or did something outwardly that was obvious to all that he had an improper intention. So they are mainly finding out about the priest's intention, not the bishop's.

As I said in the OP, "trust the SSPX, they do what they can to make sure there are no concerns about the validity of any SSPX priest."

And,  "The SSPX takes the Church's position that the presumption is the New Rite of Ordination is valid."

Because the NO Rite of Ordination's validity is presumed, the proper intention of the bishop is presumed - unless, like I said, the bishop said or did something obvious during the ceremony that showed he had improper intentions.  *That* is doing what they can.

And because they presume validity of the NO Rite, they presume the NO bishop who was consecrated in the NO Rite who is doing the ordination, is also valid.









Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2019, 09:08:38 AM »
Well, that's like 5 presumptions, any of which, if wrong, invalidate the priest.  That's way more convoluted than I thought.  Their approach to this scenario makes ZERO sense, except from a political/friendly agenda towards new-rome.  Just conditionally ordain these guys and have 100% certainty.  Anything less is grossly imprudent and spiritually negligent.

p.s. The intention of the "wanna be" priest is the least of the concern in all of this.  The main concern is the bishop's intention and if he was even a bishop to begin with!

Offline Stubborn

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2019, 09:10:16 AM »
Well, that's like 5 presumptions, any of which, if wrong, invalidate the priest.  That's way more convoluted than I thought.  Their approach to this scenario makes ZERO sense, except from a political/friendly agenda towards new-rome.  Just conditionally ordain these guys and have 100% certainty.  Anything less is grossly imprudent and spiritually negligent.
It only makes sense when "The SSPX takes the Church's position that the presumption is the New Rite of Ordination is valid."

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2019, 09:14:52 AM »
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It only makes sense when "The SSPX takes the Church's position that the presumption is the New Rite of Ordination is valid."
And they also assume that the new rite of consecration is valid too.

Again, anyone who can read can see the problems with the changes to the new rite(s).  The only reason to assume they are valid is due to political reasons.  So their whole 'dog and pony' show about "investigating" these novus ordo priests is an outright lie!  Because if all they do is investigate the priest's intention, their investigate is meaningless!  They just want to calm the people, as they slowly introduce more and more novus ordo, liberalized priests into their ranks.

Add this to the list of '101 reasons why you should avoid the sspx'.