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Author Topic: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations  (Read 48277 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 03:07:24 PM »
Quote
The SSPX do not and cannot "automatically" conditionally ordain (not "re-ordain") because like all sacraments, the sacrament of Holy Orders is presumed valid unless either proven otherwise, or such doubt warrants conditional ordination. They must be very careful because to conditionally ordain one who is already validly ordained is a sacrilege.
If we lived in orthodox times, i'd agree with you.  But in the post-V2 world, where we have multiple modernists in the Church who OPENLY claim and boast of trying to change and corrupt ecclesiastical practices, there is more than enough evidence to cast doubt on EVERY new rite consecration/ordination.

The fact that the sspx tries to investigate each and every situation is both a waste of time and a symptom of their bi-polar treatment of new-rome, wherein they call new-rome modernist on monday and then for the rest of the week treat new-rome as the True Church.  The sspx officials hide behind this "potential sacrilege" excuse in an attempt to not "rock the boat" with new-rome officials.  I think it's much more politics than actual theological caution.

What's worse, committing 1 sacrilege by conditionally ordaining a priest who was actually a priest, or NOT conditionally ordaining him and allowing him to commit WEEKLY SACRILEGES, for the REST OF HIS LIFE, every time he says a fake mass?  The answer is to conditionally ordain and it's not even debatable.  We faithful have a RIGHT to CERTAINTY in our mass/sacraments.

Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
Stubborn: 

Thank you. I used the term "re-ordain" because that was how it was referred to in the SSPX article. 

I was actually hesitant to use the term, but went back to be sure I was referring to it correctly (but maybe I am mistaken and did not read it correctly). 

In any case, what you outline is exactly why I raise the question. Do you happen to know how the SSPX investigates each particular case? Pax Vobis lays out a fairly strong case for why ALL new rite ordinations/consecrations should be treated as doubtful. However, if there is some objective way for the SSPX (or anyone else of good faith) to investigate a particular case of ordination/consecration for validity, I am very interested in learning how this is done. 

Thank you both for responding to my questions. God bless. 


Offline Stubborn

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2019, 03:36:12 PM »
What's worse, committing 1 sacrilege by conditionally ordaining a priest who was actually a priest, or NOT conditionally ordaining him and allowing him to commit WEEKLY SACRILEGES, for the REST OF HIS LIFE, every time he says a fake mass?  The answer is to conditionally ordain and it's not even debatable.  We faithful have a RIGHT to CERTAINTY in our mass/sacraments.
I pretty much agree with you, but it is the Church who makes the rules. Far as I'm concerned, all NO priests validity is at best, doubtful. From the SSPX priests I've discussed this with, they all say that this is the same view the SSPX holds and has always held.

The fact is, there actually are valid NO priests out there - most likely less and less every year, but that's the way it is. The Church simply forbids them from automatically conditionally ordaining the NO priests. They do however automatically re-train every NO priest, but they cannot automatically conditionally ordain - it's not allowed by Holy Mother the Church, never has been, never will be.

Remember, the devil prefers valid sacrileges over invalid ones - that means valid NO priests are out there, if for no other reason than to commit valid sacrileges.


 

Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2019, 03:37:45 PM »
Stubborn: 

BTW, I have asked several priests myself about their ordinations and who consecrated them etc for this very reason. They usually respond emotionally and don't always seem armed with satisfactory answers. 

I imagine for many priests it could be a seriously troubling prospect and so they may try to find ways to convince themselves that all those Masses, Confessions, etc were valid so as to ease a very troubled conscience. 

Not sure. But its almost painful to ask a priest this question. 

Part of me feels like "who am I" to ask a priest such a question. It's tough. 

Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2019, 03:38:07 PM »
Note that all the sacraments (Baptism, Confirmation, Confession, Communion, Matrimony, Holy Orders & Consecration of Bishops, and Holy Unction), prayers, and rites of the Roman Catholic Church have now been corrupted and made invalid by the influence of Freemasons in Rome.

Can anyone trust anything that has been corrupted by the ICEL and Rome?