Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: cassini on April 23, 2015, 01:14:04 PM
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http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vision-chasers
'The craziness going on in the Church these days has created such confusion in the minds and hearts and souls of many simple faithful Catholics that they are willing to accept almost any report of a vision, a message, a locution, an alternative anything that promises to make some sense of the madness—no matter how lunatic fringe it may be.
This is part of the attraction of such breakaway groups like the SSPX or the Catholics who believe there has not been a real Pope since the middle of the last century. Leaders [Like who Voris, Pope Francis?] have been so negligent in proclaiming Catholic truth, the Catholic faith, that many pious Catholics and those who believe the Faith start looking in places other than the official Church for the Faith. It is part of the great, still-unfolding tragedy of the past 50 years that there are Catholics who are officially part of the Church, speaking from a jurisdictional perspective, who do not have the Faith while there are others who do have the Faith, but remove themselves from the jurisdictional authority of the Church.'
Is Voris for real, SSPX and Sedevacantists vision chasers?
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Voris has a warped notion of what constitutes membership in the Catholic Church. He's started with that flawed premise and proceeded thence to a flawed conclusion.
If he's a member of the "official Church" let him start acting like one, and stop daring to question and second-guess the hierarchy. If Cardinal Dolan says it's okay to march with Sodomites, then who is Voris to question an "official" prelate of the "official" Church?
Utterly mad neocath stupidity.
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I'm not sure it's stupidity..seems a bit calculated to me.
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I'm not sure it's stupidity..seems a bit calculated to me.
This. Seems pernicious and maleficent on Voris' part.
He is a plant. At the very least, working for the tribe.
Anyone, see the interview between him and Sungenis?
Before he proceeded to the interview he asked them if they deny the h0Ɩ0h0αx.
Incredible.
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I used the think the Effeminate One was just another shill of False Traddies Inc. Now, I think he's just of bad will and perhaps, as GottmitunsAlex said, a plant.
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I used the think the Effeminate One was just another shill of False Traddies Inc. Now, I think he's just of bad will and perhaps, as GottmitunsAlex said, a plant.
Can't wait for Judgment Day right? All will be unfolded! It will be great.
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Oh yeah! Medjugorji and Knock are most definitely swarming with Trads! : P
Really, what next?
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:pray:
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Oh yeah! Medjugorji and Knock are most definitely swarming with Trads! : P
Really, what next?
Knock is Vatican approved. Medjugoriji is not.
Don't be knockin Knock :jumping2:
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It's been a while since I've seen any Voris videos. The formatting change is quite disturbing. His image vacillates from one side to the other throughout the video and his image frequently changes in size. It's purpose seems to be to cause the viewer to focus on him directly rather than the images or words that appear at his side.
I guess I should be happy that he finally eliminated the silly tornado.
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Oh yeah! Medjugorji and Knock are most definitely swarming with Trads! : P
Really, what next?
Certainly Catholic Samuri, Knock is today swamped in Moderrnism and milked by modernists as pro-Vatican II, but in truth is as anti-modernist as one can find on earth today. A friend has done a lot of research on this very unusual vision from heaven. Here is some of his work put together by me, with a comparison with Medjugorji:
La Salette and Knock
Heaven’s awareness of the freemasonic revolution against Christ was made known first to a French nun Sister Marie de St Pierre (1816-1848) and then by her request at La Salette in France on Sept. 19, 1846, where a crowned Mother of God appeared to two children. Among the most poignant messages was that: ‘Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.’ Three popes, Pius IX, Leo XIII and Pius X, approved this apparition, but the message was met with furious opposition from many bishops. It seems the Masons and some Masonic-controlled clergy must not have wanted any such revelations to be taken seriously.
Thirty-three years after the apparition, on 20th August 1879, a basilica at La Salette was consecrated, and the following day, August 21st, the Archbishop of Paris in France (representing the Melchisedech Priesthood and Melchisedech Kingship) crowned the statue of the Virgin of La Salette according to the prescription of the sacred Congregation of Rites. Heaven’s awareness, it seems, was given new impetus.
On the same day as this coronation, 21st August 1879, as only heaven can co-ordinate, there occurred an active but silent apparition at Knock, a small town of Connaught in the west of Ireland
KNOCK
In 1879, on a miserable wet night, in a meadow field outside the gable-end of the church of St John the Baptist, there occurred an active but silent (i.e., the figures were speaking but could not be heard) apparition at Knock (from the Gaelic word Cnoc, a hill), a small town in Connaught in the west of Ireland. The apparition, which lit the immediate area with a brilliant light, included magnificent images of the Virgin Mary, St Joseph, St John the Evangelist, the Lamb on an altar, it of course representing Christ and the Sacrifice, and some angels in attendance. This vision, mounted on an invisible platform on top of the tall grass, showed the Blessed Virgin, with her hands held up looking and praying to heaven. It showed a vested St John, superimposed between Mary and the Lamb, holding a book (the Roman missal - now redundant in the post Vatican II era, or perhaps his book of Revelation) in one hand while gesturing in a preaching stance with the other. St Joseph, with his head bowed and glancing sideways, was isolated, separated by a mysterious black line, noticed only by a few of the selected observers and seldom mentioned in books on the apparition.
‘Though the Knock witnesses experienced various emotions – happiness, wonder, devotion, exaltation of spirit, one being moved to tears – not one of them was rapt in ecstasy. None of them heard a word; neither did they receive any interior message or sign. That the Mother of God, who bade Bernadette pray for sinners, who had pleaded for conversion of life at La Salette, for prayers and penance at Fatima, should have remained silent to her devoted Irish children was, and still is, a stumbling block to many. There was no message, they say, so the Apparition is devoid of meaning,’ --- Mary Purcell, Our Lady of Knock, p.18.
Of course there was a message. Heaven does not indulge in meaningless pictures, but few, if any, could/can interpret it. The main reason for this is because Knock was not a ‘Marian’ message but a Johannine one, and, like his Apocalypse, has to be read in an allegorical sense (A form of exegesis thrown out by Martin Luther and one that is hardly ever found among modern Catholics). Thus a considerable amount of research on the place and its history is needed to begin to try to interpret the message or warning. So, we can ask: (1) Why Knock: (2) To whom was it addressed: (3) Why was it silent: (4) What was it trying to tell us?
Before one can possibly understand such ‘messages’ from heaven, one must fully accept and comprehend the war declared by God in Genesis 3:15 between the Christ and the antichrist, and how this battle of ‘Principalities and Powers’ is carried out on a temporal and spiritual plane. The message of Knock, we suspect, was, like the Book of Revelation, a warning to the flock of the current state of this war as it was in 1879 and into the future. Here is why we interpret it so:
Why Knock?
It is a fact that the only place where the word allegory is mentioned in Scripture is in St Paul’s Letter to the Galatians: ‘things are said by an allegory’ (Gal. 4:24). We also know that it was the Galatians who were advised that if an angel from heaven should preach a different gospel to that which they had been taught, to reject it (Gal 1:8).
Scholars on the origin of European peoples tell us that a fair number of the old and true Galatians (Celts) had migrated to Ireland and settled here. Then along came the Freemason Oliver Cromwell with his infamous reform in the sixteenth century, and ordered all Catholics of Ireland to decide their destiny: ‘To hell (become Protestant) or to Connaught’. Choosing Connaught to hell, the Galatians Catholics moved into this desolate, infertile and barren west of Ireland where they continued to be persecuted in any event. It was their descendants that occupied Knock in 1879.
These then were the same flock that St Paul had advised that ‘things are said by allegory’, a people worthy to convey to the world a message wrapped in allegory.
A Pattern
Cromwell, that docuмented Satanist (sold his soul to the Devil) who conquered in the name of God, was the first to deliberately usurp the divine right of kings by purging his own and replacing him with the beginnings of freemasonic ‘democracy’, where men and not God would rule the world according to their own laws. Cromwell, who committed untold atrocities against the Catholic Irish, was a champion of what he called ‘religious liberty’, but this liberty did not include traditional Catholicism and certainly not the traditional Latin Mass which he hated, a policy identical with that pertaining within the Modernist Churchmen of Vatican II.
The Parish Priest of Knock at the time was Archdeacon Cavanagh, a saintly man, full of devotion to Our Lady and her Immaculate Conception. Knock, a barren place, poor in earthly goods, but rich in grace and good works, was a fitting place for a message from heaven. In May of 1879, Fr Cavanagh began a novena of 100 Masses for the souls in Purgatory, the final Mass being said on the morning of the day that the vision appeared. Not know to too many and hardly ever broached is the fact that in Mayo at the time, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ was active. It has been written that a group of Freemasons from Foxford had planned to ambush Fr Cavanagh and cut off his ears on the day he finished his century of Masses.
Fascinating and wonderful as the actual events of the sighting were, space does not permit a complete account. We can say the sensational events of the day saved Fr Cavanagh ears, but as divine Providence would have it this saintly priest was not to witness the vision. A reason for this could be to save the vision from accusations of being conjured up by a priest so pious and spiritual that the world may not have believed it. Instead it was to be witnessed by a group of people, the likes of which could be found anywhere. Such a group could not be said to have had illusions, nor could a motive for any conspiracy be levelled at them. Great miracles later gave final witness to its authenticity. My own sister, who suffered with a shaking disease for over a year was taken to Knock by my parents. She came home cured. I am a witness to that private miracle.
To whom was it Addressed?
St John the Baptist Church had an inscription on the west wall that read:
‘My house shall be called the house of prayer to all nations. This is the gate of the Lord: the just shall enter into it.’
Knock then was a link ‘to all nations’. There was also something unique as regards those that witnessed it. Unlike the Marion apparitions of the times, messages confined to one, two or three persons, usually children (Lourdes-one: La Salette-two, and later Fatima-three), eighteen people were granted the sight at Knock, aged between six and seventy-five. Here is a second sign that the vision was meant for the special attention of all those that would heed it.
Delving back into history we find that in response to Cromwell’s campaign to destroy the Christian Kingdom of Ireland, the Catholic Ecclesiastical Congregation of the Kingdom of Ireland met at Clonmacnoise on the 4th of December 1649, and issued a Motu Proprio, warning Catholics not to be deceived by those supposedly acting in the name of God.(See, for example, Tom Reilly, Cromwell, Brandon Books, Dublin, 1999, pp.292-3) Given the universal nature of a proprio motu, i.e., a message for ‘all nations’, we feel there is a continuity and connection between the three elements mentioned here.
Why was it silent?
In the plan of God for men, He set up many a hierarchy: one being a chain of communication between God, the Pope, a King, down to the peasants scattered throughout the kingdom. Such a link began when Constantine placed his kingdom into the society intended by Christ. Later the Pope would crown the King of the Franks with divine approval. The Pope would represent heaven, taking his authority from God Himself. The king would take his authority from the Pope and so on down to the common people. Rome in turn made provision for this hierarchy by providing a special place at Church Councils for those kings loyal to God, the Church, the Pope and his definitions, declarations and social instructions.
Responding to heaven’s challenge to Satan’s dominion, in a master plan from hell, the earthly Illuminati would devote themselves to eliminating this worldwide Christian society. To sever this relationship all one had to do was remove the temporal kingship and whole nations could be lured into apostasy just as whole peoples were Christianised through king and country. This separation was complete after the First World War, a war, as we know, begun by a planned assassination. Breaking this crucial link between God and His people was the first step in Satan’s counter-offensive in the war of Genesis 3:15.
If we skip over the history of this grand victory of Satan’s temporal army of тαℓмυdic Freemasons and schemers, it is suffice to know that at Vatican I in 1870, only one kingdom; that of Portugal, sat in the royal box giving public witness to their remaining loyalty to God and Pope.
"Two months before the invasion of Rome, Pius IX had presided over the final session of the Vatican Council. In contrast to the opening a year before, St Peter’s was almost deserted. In the royal box, there were two ladies, one of them the Infanta of Portugal, as well as a decrepit officer with the Order of St Januarius blazoned across his chest. The diplomatic box, too, had many vacant seats. The Great Powers had instructed their ambassadors to boycott a function in which there was no mileage for them." --- Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of the Papacy by Peter de Rosa ...
The symbolic end of God’s terrestrial Principalities occurred when the Pope had to surrender to the freemasonic forces laying siege to last of the Vatican states by raising the white flag of surrender in 1870, 40 years after Our Lady predicted the date in her message to St Catherine Laboure in 1830.The timing here was deliberate, for it interrupted the Council itself, preventing God knows how many definitions of faith that might have thwarted the freemasonic-led Modernists that were emerging at the time. What is not commonly known is that the Freemasons claimed complete victory in their centuries old war when Giuseppe Garibaldi actually sat on the chair of Peter vacated by Pius IX.
We interpret the silence of the Knock vision and the fact that it was elevated off the land, neither of the earth nor of heaven, to the fact that the traditional means of communication between God and His people, that is, through the hierarchy between God, Pope and king down to the common people, had by then been eliminated by тαℓмυdic Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. It is Interesting to note that the apparition of Our Lady of Hope at Pontmain, France, in the same year (1870) was also silent. In that case however, letters in the sand were provided by which the children spelled out the message. But there was no communication at all at Knock.
This interpretation is not affected by the fact that in 1917 there was a ‘speaking’ intervention between heaven and a multitude on earth, for Fatima is in Portugal, the last remaining kingdom present at the council, the one land where such a public communication might take place.
Now there may be some who would contend that the endless series of ‘Marian’ visions at Mudjugorje shows this assertion to be untrue. But Medjugorje of the ‘lying wonders’ is not Catholic and therefore is not from heaven but movies from hell. The ‘visions’ of Mudjugorje, if true, allegedly began on the masonic hour on the feast of of St. John the Baptist (June 24th 1981), the adopted patron of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ with its passion for symbols and secret signs. Satan, we know, or should know, will do whatever it takes to spread relevant error. In this case he has attracted millions of Catholics (and many non-Catholics) to this place, gets them on their knees praying, confessing, fasting or whatever, and then delivers to them a large slice of false democracy, ecuмenism and error. Docuмented evidence, as well as personal conversation with some that regularly went there and who found this out for themselves, has convinced us that there is on offer here from ‘the Virgin’, the hoary old freemasonic idea that all religions must be moulded into one universal religion, the ‘all roads lead to heaven’ belief, for we all supposedly have the same God. In other words there is a rejection here of the dogma that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. This ideology of course flies in the face of Fatima where Our Lady called for prayers for the conversion of all sinners. With God there cannot be any contradictions, so faithful Catholics must reject all such inconsistency. The popularity of this place, with its supposed daily contact to heaven and its seductive nature according to the new order of Vatican II, is however enough to convince most to turn a blind eye to its heretical promulgations and all that supposedly goes on there. Such is the art of satanic deceit.
Allegory:
The next step is to try to interpret the ‘message’ of Knock. We must now consider the significance of the figures involved and the positions or stances they take. Let us first ask why the two St Johns are included in the apparition, one because the church is in his name and the other because he is included in the apparition. These saints, combined, had a pivotal role in setting up the greatest mystery of them all, the Church of Christ, and this is why Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the masters of imitation and symbols chose the two, not one, as patrons when building their own temple to the natural son. Their presence indicates it is the Church that is represented by the vision. St John the Evangelist, who gave us the Apocalypse, is instructing us with his gesture, and the book in his hand is the source of this instruction. Is it a coincidence that the instigator of Vatican II was a Pope John XXIII and why he did not give it his endorsement of papal infallibility
Next there is St Joseph, a ‘son of David’, as we know from the Gospels, making him a Melchisedech priest (even though St Joseph never used his priesthood), and whose status was completed by divine Providence at Vatican I making him Patron of the Universal Church. Again we see the vision represents the whole Church. He, like the Lamb on the altar is isolated, almost ‘out of the picture’ so to speak, and this was confirmed when that black line was later revealed, separating the vision into two frames. In other words, the Melchisedech priesthood of the Church is here ‘outside’, just as the vision itself was placed ‘outside’ the Church of St John the Baptist.
Then we have Mary and the Lamb. Unusual, if not unique in an image of Mary and her Son is that in this case, like Joseph in the vision. who is separated by a dark line, the two are separated by St. John. Mary wears the rose and crown, symbols of those Principalities now lost. In other words she is now representing the lost Kingdoms, she being the unshakable Queen of the earth. Our Lady is looking to heaven, her hands raised as Advocate or Orante, that is, in the manner of a priest during the Canon of the Mass, pleading, as she does, to her Son to avert a great chastisement or calamity, like that to come, Vatican II and its aftermath. Separated from Mary and the priests of the vision is the Lamb, representing the Sacrifice, the Mass of all time.
So, it can be seen that within this scene set up at Knock there are a few aspects that dominate any allegorical interpretation. (1) The Mass, or the Priesthood, is the dominant theme; both of these are isolated, set apart in a manner. (2) The Message is being delivered by St John the Evangelist, author of the Book of Revelation, the Book of Prophecy; the Book predicting a great apostasy incorporating the beast, the forces of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. ( Five Papal Bulls have been directed against it by name, in 1738, 1751, 1821, 1826, 1864, and Pope Leo XIII would warn the Catholic world against it in Humanum Genus within five years (1884).)
Now while the Church has never officially interpreted the apparition at Knock, the Freemasons, who know the state of the war of Genesis 3:15 far better than even the most learned Catholic, had their own image of things at that time. As you can see in the masonic illustration (NOT SHOWN HERE) above, which has as its background one of its symbols of equilibrium, a balanced ladder, two of the serpent’s heads are held high in victory, one with the sword and one with the kingly crowns, depicting their victory over the Christian kingdoms of the world for all to see. The third head however, with its papal tiara, is not yet held high, for it represents the priesthood (and the Mass), which, at the time, as Fr Cavanagh had demonstrated with his 100th Mass, had not yet been undermined and usurped. The battle of Principalities and Powers had been only half won, but the serpent was already wearing the tiara in expectation.
Knock, I believe (my grandfather and his family having been born Catholics in Connacht, making me a descendant Galatian with a right to read Knock’s allegory) is responding to the state of warfare of the time. It warns us of a pending chastisement, far worse than the Flood or anything of a mere temporal nature. St John was warning the faithful what was in store for Christianity and the world. The Melchisedech priesthood and the true Catholic sacrifice of the Mass were in danger of being isolated, removed from the faithful as a whole. Mary, wearing the crown that now depended on her and Portugal (the remnant), pleads with God to spare the world from the greatest of all disasters.
Freemasons knew that attack the priesthood and one attacks the true Sacrifice, the sacraments, and most of the temporal conduits of grace, the very means of sustenance necessary for Christ’s faithful to hold the faith in every way. An attack on the true Mass then is a way to destroy the priesthood. If heaven was trying to put us in touch with the signs of the times, this vision warned of the collapse of the second target of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the battle of Powers, the priesthood of Melchisedech, and that this would be done by deceit, when the lamb that looks like the Lamb, will in fact be the dragon that is, the Novus Ordo, just as the Protestant ‘mass’ was used to eliminate the last vestige of Catholicity from the Reformers of the sixteenth century. This vision at Knock can be said to be a warning to all the nations of the world, ‘to undeceive those in their ungrounded hopes and expectations’, as the Motu Proprio of 1649 said, that what may be done in the name of God is not always as it seems.
Could any words better describe the situation that emerged at Vatican II and which is now present among Catholics worldwide? Cromwell, it is said, destroyed more beautiful things than any man before him. Here again we can draw an analogy between him and Vatican II, for it surpassed even Cromwell by destroying far more beautiful things throughout all Christendom. Leaving aside the traditional Latin Mass, all the old devotions, the teachings, catechetics and prayers, the vestments, the priestly and nun’s habits and clerical cloths, we had in line with Cromwell a thing called ‘re-ordering’ whereby they destroyed great cathedrals and parish churches, abandoned millions of sacramentals and books, and have not ceased their destruction yet, still selling off countless redundant convents, religious houses, and Church property. Looking back on the vision today we can now get a better understanding of its warning, for it has come to pass, the destruction of the true priesthood en masse.
An allegorical interpretation of Knock can then be taken as a warning that the battle for the priesthood was imminent
There is lots more, but the core of the Knock Vision is a warning of what we now know as Vatican II. Even Fatima warned of it to be read out in 1960.
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Thank you, Cassini. We've also been to Doonwell up in Donegal.
There are Mass rocks there.
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I guess I should be happy that he finally eliminated the silly tornado.
He had to get rid of it after the Dimonds outed him for using witchcraft.
Is he still using the pink lipstick?
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Another excellent post, Cassini. I was ignorant of much of this information about Knock/Cnoc. It's both stirring and chilling.
A few items please:
1. Virgin Mary, St Joseph, St John the Evangelist
The 3 I am most devoted to for intercession.
2. There was no message, they say, so the Apparition is devoid of meaning,’ --- Mary Purcell, Our Lady of Knock, p.18.
How odd that this would be an interpretation by devout Irishmen, of all people. The silence adds to the profundity of the apparition, conveying the utmost serious nature of God's message. More so:
Of course there was a message. Heaven does not indulge in meaningless pictures, but few, if any, could/can interpret it. The main reason for this is because Knock was not a ‘Marian’ message but a Johannine one, and, like his Apocalypse, has to be read in an allegorical sense
3. St Joseph, with his head bowed and glancing sideways, was isolated, separated by a mysterious black line, noticed only by a few of the selected observers and seldom mentioned in books on the apparition.
The description further on is fascinating.
4. my grandfather and his family having been born Catholics in Connacht, making me a descendant Galatian with a right to read Knock’s allegory
Can you explain "right to read.."?
(both my grandfather and grandmother and families were born Catholics in Connacht also)
5. Now while the Church has never officially interpreted the apparition at Knock
Why is this?
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I'm sorry to have veered off the track of your thread Cassini (re: Knock).
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I watched his show a few times in the past but I don't know his position on Vatican II.
Is Voris
A.) A person that fully accepts Vatican II.
B.) A person that reluctantly accepts Vatican II and only sees a problem with a handful of bishops and priests.
C.) A person that does not support Vatican II but still attends Novus Ordo masses
D.) A person that does not support Vatican II and resists its teachings. He does not attend Novus Ordo masses.
E.) Sedevacantist
F.) Supports Pope Michael
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I watched his show a few times in the past but I don't know his position on Vatican II.
Is Voris
A.) A person that fully accepts Vatican II.
B.) A person that reluctantly accepts Vatican II and only sees a problem with a handful of bishops and priests.
C.) A person that does not support Vatican II but still attends Novus Ordo masses
D.) A person that does not support Vatican II and resists its teachings. He does not attend Novus Ordo masses.
E.) Sedevacantist
F.) Supports Pope Michael
He's a person who wears pink, has a bad haircut, and solicits donations to take "retreats" aboard cruise ships.
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4. my grandfather and his family having been born Catholics in Connacht, making me a descendant Galatian with a right to read Knock’s allegory
Can you explain "right to read.."?
(both my grandfather and grandmother and families were born Catholics in Connacht also)
5. Now while the Church has never officially interpreted the apparition at Knock
Why is this?
The answers lie in the mystery of Allegory, which by its very nature is open to speculation. In other words, others can interpret the vison as they see it. The essay explained:
'It is a fact that the only place where the word allegory is mentioned in Scripture is in St Paul’s Letter to the Galatians: ‘things are said by an allegory’ (Gal. 4:24). We also know that it was the Galatians who were advised that if an angel from heaven [let alone Vatican II] should preach a different gospel to that which they had been taught, to reject it (Gal 1:8).'
As a direct descendant of a long Catholic family line that lived in Connacht I claim the right to offer our (my friend lives near Knock) interpretation. Your grandparents too PerEvangelicaDicta inherited this right from St Paul, as you yourself do. The fact that you can relate so much to it shows you too can share the gift to work out the true meaning of the apparition.
For me the most profound vindication of the meaning of Knock was the fact - as we found out- it happened on the very day that the statue of Our Lady of La Salette was crowned by the Archbishop of Paris.
On Sept. 19, 1846, the Mother of God appeared in a private apparition to two peasant children at La Salette in France. Our Lady did however give the children a message to tell the world some years later. She bewailed the weak faith and sinfulness of Catholics, especially the clergy, and foretold the consequences should such behaviour continue without repentance. Even though approved by three popes, Pius IX, Leo XIII and Pope St Pius X, the message was met with furious opposition from masonic or masonic controlled bishops. Among the most important messages were:
(1) ‘The Church will be in eclipse.’
(2) ‘Evil books will be abundant on earth and the spirit of darkness will spread everywhere a universal slackening in all that concerns the service of God.’
(3) ‘Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.’
Why has the Church never interpreted the Knock vision? I suspect it is because some things only become clear in retrospect, hindsight. Similar to the Apocalypse, the Church has never given us a clear explanation of it and only as we see these things happening can we interpret what it probably meant. For example, as a 1950s Catholic I would never, in a 1,000,000 years, have believed what has happened in the Church since Vatican II. Up to the 1960s few in the Church knew what was going on in the greater picture. I recall being shocked that Our Lady would say such things about the Church of her Son. This led to the opinion La Salette HAD to be a false Marian message. Now that we traditionalists have seen what did happen at Vatican II and since, we can now see La Salette in its true light.
Our effortts to interpret what Knock surely meant in the light of events, we put together a history of the battle since La Salette. I can put it up for what it is worth. It is a long read if any are interested.
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I watched his show a few times in the past but I don't know his position on Vatican II.
Is Voris
A.) A person that fully accepts Vatican II.
B.) A person that reluctantly accepts Vatican II and only sees a problem with a handful of bishops and priests.
C.) A person that does not support Vatican II but still attends Novus Ordo masses
D.) A person that does not support Vatican II and resists its teachings. He does not attend Novus Ordo masses.
E.) Sedevacantist
F.) Supports Pope Michael
Voris is a VICTIM of the times. Like many other good Catholics of our time, he really does not know how to approach the current crisis in the Church. There are those good Catholics of pre-Vatican II vintage who know and have the faith but simply cannot get past the paradox presented to them. Catholics are taught that popes are the same as St Peters, Vicars of Christ on earth and that we are bound to hold them as such or enter schism. When popes since Vatican II have instigated the NO Mass and beliefs the flock is to follow, like sheep they followed, and some of my good Catholic friends do follow, the only ones still attending the NO Mass their Pope says and attends.
Others, like myself, simply could not follow because they considered the changes to be contrary to that of tradition and St Paul had told us that even if an angle for HEAVEN were to offer you a doctrine contrary to that taught you, reject it. So we simply sought out a 'Mass Rock' somewhere and ignored what Rome says. We are obliged by our faith to accept they are legally held Church positions of popes, cardinals and priests.
Voris is one of those who believes he can have his cake and eat it. To criticize a pope is in the eyes of Voris an absolute no no. He does point out the many errors of 'the Church of nice' but that is as far as he can go. He refuses to acknowledge that the 'BUCK STOPS WITH THE CURRENT POPE IN OFFICE.'
He wants to be with the Pope and therefore must sideline the SSPX and others who refuse to do what Rome has been doing and believing in since Vatican II.
Voris is to me a very exceptional man, who would have loved to live and experience Catholicism of the 1940s and 50s. He sees many of the problems with the 'Church of Nice', but does not know where to go from there. Yes, he is a victim of the times and while none of us are perfect in any way should be understood as such.
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I appreciate your thoughtful response Cassini. You've given me (us) much to meditate upon and further research.
For me the most profound vindication of the meaning of Knock was the fact - as we found out- it happened on the very day that the statue of Our Lady of La Salette was crowned by the Archbishop of Paris.
Profound indeed. I was not aware of this either.
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Judging by the speed of which Voris managed to backstab all the prominent trads after speaking at the Catholic Identity Conference in 2013, he's a rather clumsily disquised shill/sleeper agent for the sex-traffickers over in Rome. Instructions from his handlers from the Vatican probably went something like this: "Pretend you're one of them just long enough to get invited to one of their shindigs, then when we give the word, we'll need you to turn on them! By the time the Synod rolls around people won't know what to think. Speaking of turn ons, we love those pink shirts of yours!"
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris? Someone even implied he is effeminate which is ridiculous. He is out there defending and taking flak for his understanding of the Catholic faith during a confusing time where nobody knows what to do with the pope or if he even exists.
Voris' position might be described as soft R&R as compared to the medium R&R of Mezingen and the hard R&R of the Resistance. Voris thinks Mezingen is sede-leaning just as Mezingen says the same about the Resistance. Resistors say Voris is a hypocrite for not being fully on-board with Francis just as the real SV's say the same about them. NO's more mainstream than Voris probably consider him to be sede-leaning.
I think Voris' primary mistake is his dogmatism regarding his particular spot on the sede spectrum, but then that shortcoming is shared almost everyone else on that spectrum.
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris?
I think it is because he attacks traditional Catholics instead of Bergoglio.
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Voris' position might be described as soft R&R as compared to the medium R&R of Mezingen and the hard R&R of the Resistance.
Haha, soft, medium and hard R&R. Never thought of it that way. Sigh. I know we need vocabulary and labels to express ideas and keep them clear, but it sure is getting more and more complicated. God help us.
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris? Someone even implied he is effeminate which is ridiculous.
That would be me, and I didn't imply it, I stated it. Any man who wears pink and looks as though he uses a blow-comb and mousse every morning certainly comes across as effeminate...at least to me.
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris? Someone even implied he is effeminate which is ridiculous.
That would be me, and I didn't imply it, I stated it. Any man who wears pink and looks as though he uses a blow-comb and mousse every morning certainly comes across as effeminate...at least to me.
I concur.
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris?
I think it is because he attacks traditional Catholics instead of Bergoglio.
And which group of traditional Catholics does not also attack fellow trads?
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris? Someone even implied he is effeminate which is ridiculous.
That would be me, and I didn't imply it, I stated it. Any man who wears pink and looks as though he uses a blow-comb and mousse every morning certainly comes across as effeminate...at least to me.
He comes from a commercial broadcasting background. That is why he knows the broadcasting business so well. He doesn't seem any more gussied up than the typical news guy--probably wears make-up as well. I don't do that but then I am only typing from behind and anonymous keyboard. Doing what he does takes real courage and I think that more than compensates for his unfortunate adherence to the metrosɛҳuąƖ conventions of his trade.
His job, properly understood, is not to defend traddies but to defend the Faith. He can be faulted for attacking trads but no more than any other member of the circular firing squad we all inhabit.
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Why is everyone being so hard are poor Michael Voris? Someone even implied he is effeminate which is ridiculous.
That would be me, and I didn't imply it, I stated it. Any man who wears pink and looks as though he uses a blow-comb and mousse every morning certainly comes across as effeminate...at least to me.
He comes from a commercial broadcasting background. That is why he knows the broadcasting business so well. He doesn't seem any more gussied up than the typical news guy--probably wears make-up as well. I don't do that but then I am only typing from behind and anonymous keyboard. Doing what he does takes real courage and I think that more than compensates for his unfortunate adherence to the metrosɛҳuąƖ conventions of his trade.
His job, properly understood, is not to defend traddies but to defend the Faith. He can be faulted for attacking trads but no more than any other member of the circular firing squad we all inhabit.
Women have no gαy-dar whatsoever; they're clueless.
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Haha, soft, medium and hard R&R. Never thought of it that way. Sigh. I know we need vocabulary and labels to express ideas and keep them clear, but it sure is getting more and more complicated. God help us.
You really have to keep a scorecard. Those looking into Tradition often become bewildered by the inside-baseball discussions.
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Women have no gαy-dar whatsoever; they're clueless.
(http://www.catholicireland.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/columba-3.jpg)
Not a woman. That is quite an accusation against Voris.
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His job, properly understood, is not to defend traddies but to defend the Faith. He can be faulted for attacking trads but no more than any other member of the circular firing squad we all inhabit.
He compared the most mainstream and mild R&R figures - like Michael Matt, John Vennari and Christopher Ferrara - to pornographers merely for reporting on the numerous Bergoglian scandals. All the while he pats himself on the back for sweeping those scandals under the rug and laying 100% of the blame at the feet of the bishops.
For this and many other reasons, we can accurately say that he defends neither traditional Catholics nor the Faith, but does grievous public harm to both. He's not a member of a circular firing squad, he's a well-placed and well-armed sniper, picking off his victims with impunity.
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Women have no gαy-dar whatsoever; they're clueless.
Is Columba a women?
PS I wrote this before I saw the image posted. I knew St Columba was a man, and Columba writes like a man!
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I guess I should be happy that he finally eliminated the silly tornado.
He had to get rid of it after the Dimonds outed him for using witchcraft.
Could you elaborate? How is a CG image of a tornado using witchcraft, or did you mean something else. I don't follow the Dimonds as you do so I'm not aware of their charge.
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His job, properly understood, is not to defend traddies but to defend the Faith. He can be faulted for attacking trads but no more than any other member of the circular firing squad we all inhabit.
He compared the most mainstream and mild R&R figures - like Michael Matt, John Vennari and Christopher Ferrara - to pornographers merely for reporting on the numerous Bergoglian scandals. All the while he pats himself on the back for sweeping those scandals under the rug and laying 100% of the blame at the feet of the bishops.
For this and many other reasons, we can accurately say that he defends neither traditional Catholics nor the Faith, but does grievous public harm to both. He's not a member of a circular firing squad, he's a well-placed and well-armed sniper, picking off his victims with impunity.
So Voris employs valid criticisms against those on his left while backstabbing those on his right by resorting to logical fallacies that serve primarily to establish his bonafides for not being too "extreme." Again, how does this differ from conventional trad rhetoricians, including those "mainstream and mild" examples given?
Voris criticizes bishops and "the leadership" but not the pope directly. Moderate R&Rs criticize the pope but only mildly and respectfully. Hardcore SVs lambast and deny the pope without reservation. The differences are in degree, not in kind and these are differences in speculation, not in doctrine.
Determination of whether Voris is inside or outside a circle is necessarily subjective. He might not fit in an ultra-trad circle but might well fit within a circle described as traditional minded. Voris' errors should not be excused but most of them should be recognized as systemic among traditional minded Catholics rather than particular to him alone. Why not criticize everyone who backstabs to the right from any position rather than only those who do so from a position to the left of one's own?