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Author Topic: Spelling Challenge  (Read 3133 times)

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Offline AlligatorDicax

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Ending Sentences/Re: Spelling Challenge
« Reply #75 on: December 26, 2018, 09:03:18 AM »
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  • Oho!  Never end a sentence with a preposition.

    Here's a challenge for you:  Who can rewrite this sentence:

       I'm sure a few people here can identify who that quote is from.

    without ending the sentence with a preposition?

    Ah, yes: An overly pedantic rule that was mocked in least 1 famously sarcastic observation:

       "A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with."
       --W.L.S. Churchill [*] (quote attribution from memory, thus possibly incorrect attribution).

    When a syntactic structure is awkward, don't preserve that awkwardness by applying a trivial fix--recast the whole sentence or clause!

       I'm sure a few people here can identify
    •   the person to whom that quote is attributed.
    •   the origin of that quote.
    •   the originator of that quote.
    •   the source of that quote.
    •   the speaker (who's) being quoted.

    Where "origin" & "source" could instead be a citation from what might broadly be considered the literature in some field, instead of the name of a person.

    -------
    Note *: Churchill is the author, most relevantly herein, of the 4-or-5-volume series A History of the English-Speaking Peoples, altho' his comparably long series on the Second World War might've gained more readers.

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #76 on: December 26, 2018, 10:52:30 AM »
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  • But sometimes a preposition isn't always a preposition.  Sometimes it's a verb.  In the above sentence, wouldn't "is from" be a verb phrase?


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #77 on: December 26, 2018, 02:56:31 PM »
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  • If I say "he thought it was safe to up the ante" the word UP has become a verb, whereas usually up is a preposition (up the waterpipe) or an adverb (the smoke rose up). It all depends how you use it.

    But in the case of "is from" the preposition "from" does not become a verb. It is still a preposition governing the pronoun whom. The verb is simply "is".

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #78 on: December 26, 2018, 04:03:48 PM »
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  • Well, thank you, Nadir.  Grammar isn't my strong point...but I still try!

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #79 on: December 27, 2018, 11:04:59 PM »
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  • .
    FR has to depat at 11am
    WE have to out of the premises by 12pm

    One often sees confusion or feels confusion on this issue of how to label midday. My reasoning tells me that 12 noon is one hour after 11am and so should called 12am, but to be correct and avoid confusion I would say 12am or 12 noon.

    It doesn't become pm or afternoon untill after 12am. 12.01pm is one minute after 12am or noon.
    .
    12pm is midnight and 12.01 is am or morning of the next day.
    So if the quote is correct you have 13 hours to clear the premises, so no hurry. You could have a cleaning party.


    Offline jvk

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #80 on: December 28, 2018, 08:20:11 AM »
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  • Yes, but I think this is a case where common usage would take precedence over correctness!  If you said 12 am, but really meant 12 noon...people would think you were confused or just made a simple mistake!  

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #81 on: December 28, 2018, 09:17:38 AM »
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  • I am with jvk on this one. I have never heard anyone say "12 am" and mean Midday or "12 pm" to mean Midnight. It's not hard to imagine folks down here would consider a person confused or crazy to use such terminology.

    To be honest, Nadir, this is the first I've heard of this concept. Unless it was just forgotten, dumped knowledge. 🤔

    "Very interesting! I shall do my best to forget it." - Sherlock Holmes
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    It's "M."!/Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #82 on: December 28, 2018, 01:04:04 PM »
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  • One often sees confusion or feels confusion on this issue of how to label midday.

    Yes, but it's quite surprising--and even more disappointing--to see such confusion propagated in CathInfo, where readers should be able to expect that members whose postings are intended as corrections would refer to Latin, the sacred language of Roman Catholicism, when appropriate.  As it is herein.


    My reasoning tells me that 12 noon is one hour after 11 am and so should called 12am, but to be correct and avoid confusion I would say 12 am or   12 noon.

    It doesn't become pm or afternoon untill   after 12 am .  12.01 pm is one minute after 12 am or   noon.

    ArrrGH!  NoooOOOOOO!

    Noon is exactly "MERĪDIĒ" (m. ablative-of-time), contracted from "MEDIŌ DIĒ", meaning "midday",  and properly abbreviated as "M."--no "A." and no "P."!   Awareness of this set the explicit U.S. federal standard until recently [†].

    The familiar "A." abbreviates the Latin preposition "ANTE", meaning "before"; the familiar "P." abbreviates the Latin preposition "POST", meaning "after" (each preposition taking the accusative case).  Is it really necessary for me to point out that in any natural reckoning of time,  "noon" is neither "before noon", nor "after noon"?


    I think this is a case where common usage would take precedence over correctness!  If you said 12 am, but really meant 12 noon ... people would think you were confused or just made a simple mistake! 

    A fine example of nonsense in defense of ignorance and ambiguity!  That which is correct can be looked up in a credible prescriptive reference source.  Whereas whatever are the most common usages of the moment can't always be--perhaps to avoid propagating ignorance--and may change with each arriving generation.  Maintaining & using that which is correct is the simplest way toward preventing or eliminating confusion when attempting to convey thoughts or ideas accurately.

    -------
    Note †: The change away from straightforward Latin would fit the overt hostility to Western Civilization for which the Obama Administration was notorious (less so the Clinton Administration).


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #83 on: December 28, 2018, 05:25:40 PM »
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  • I am pleased to see you are correcting me. Thank you, Alligator for clarifying and correcting. I see now that 00.00 and 12.00 are neither a.m. nor p.m. I had not given sufficient thought to it.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #84 on: December 28, 2018, 05:32:15 PM »
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  • Yes, but I think this is a case where common usage would take precedence over correctness!  If you said 12 am, but really meant 12 noon...people would think you were confused or just made a simple mistake!  
    Common usage can be correct or incorrect.
    That's like saying "everybody does does it so it must be OK". I know you wouldn't say that to your children, when it comes to doing wrong. Not that this is a moral issue. But it is always better to clear/correct in what you say than to be unclear/incorrect.

    Offline jvk

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    Re: It's "M."!/Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #85 on: December 30, 2018, 02:01:11 PM »
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  • A fine example of nonsense in defense of ignorance and ambiguity!  That which is correct can be looked up in a credible prescriptive reference source.  Whereas whatever are the most common usages of the moment can't always be--perhaps to avoid propagating ignorance--and may change with each arriving generation.  Maintaining & using that which is correct is the simplest way toward preventing or eliminating confusion when attempting to convey thoughts or ideas accurately.

    -------
    Note †: The change away from straightforward Latin would fit the overt hostility to Western Civilization for which the Obama Administration was notorious (less so the Clinton Administration).
    Duly noted and properly chastened, AlligatorDicax. 
    Actually, I was planning on looking up the clarification of am and pm, but other more important issues intervened.  (Children, diapers, and meals, specifically!)  It would actually be a good homework assignment some time for one of my older ones.  I'll have to TRY to remember that.
    And yes, Nadir, clarity is always good.  My husband's always telling me to just say what I mean.  Writing is easier; you can step back a moment and tweak a word or two and correct your grammar.  Speaking properly from the moment you open your mouth can be a work in progress!  I'm sure there's something in this paragraph that could be corrected, too.  Well, that's I come to this thread!  :-\  


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #86 on: December 30, 2018, 02:19:34 PM »
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  • Some pet peeves of mine. 
    • When people say bias when they mean biased. Bias is the noun, biased is the adjective. "The referee is biased" not bias.
    • When people say "I could care less". That means you do care, and does not specify at all how little or how much you care. It's "I couldn't care less". This issue seems to be mainly an American one for some reason, over here everyone says couldn't.
    • Another American one. "I got done". No, no, you finished. You did it. You don't *get* done.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #87 on: January 10, 2019, 08:26:54 PM »
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  • Since: from a particular time in the past until a later time, or until now:
    (From Cambridge Dictionary online)


    Quote
    Quote from: Clemens Maria on Today at 05:21:29 PM
    and the fake popes since Pope Pius XII.

    Quote
    Quid asks:
    Are you saying Pope Pius XII was a fake pope - an antipope?

    My guess is in the negative. I think that in this sentence CM uses the word since to mean after that time, i.e. after Pius XII

    Here is an example in which it is plain that since means after, but there are many times where it is not so plain.

    Your piano playing has really come on since I last heard you play. 

    In other words when I last heard it, it wasn't up to scratch.

    I'd never before thought about the possible confusion/misunderstanding. So thanks, Quid.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Spelling Challenge
    « Reply #88 on: January 10, 2019, 11:32:47 PM »
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  • I am pleased to see you are correcting me. Thank you, Alligator for clarifying and correcting. I see now that 00.00 and 12.00 are neither a.m. nor p.m. I had not given sufficient thought to it.
    That it why it is best to use military time.
    0001 UT and 0002 UT would be minutes after midnight Universal Time. At 0500 UT, it would be 4:00 PM PST.
    Lord have mercy.

     

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