Author Topic: 1973 film called "The Catholics"  (Read 3505 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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1973 film called "The Catholics"
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2014, 06:45:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: BTNYC
    Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    I notice that I received many thumbs down.  The movie was recommended by longtime tradcat who told me about movie.  


    Well, the movie ends with what is effectively the Gates of Hell triumphing over the Catholic Church.

    I don't think that's fair.  The movie ends showing on abbot evoking the countenance of spiritual desolation -- but that's not "the Church."  

    The Gates of hell AT THAT TIME were triumphing over the soul of the Abbot, but that's just one man.  They were not triumphing over the monks there in that monastery.

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    The heretical priest orders the monks - the last orthodox Catholic clerics on earth - to stop offering the Latin Mass and to deny the dogma of the Real Presence. The Father Abbot, who has lost his faith, falsely places the virtue of obedience above the virtue of Faith and obeys the order to apostatize, and orders the monks to do likewise.

    In the end, defense of the Catholic Faith is shown to be pointless and irrelevant, blind obedience is portrayed as virtuous and despairing existential terror wins the day.

    So, while it might be a superficially attractive film for trads because it shows the NO in a bad light, the film does not follow that premise through by arguing on behalf of Catholic tradition. I'm not sure what it's arguing on behalf of, other than despair and agnosticism.


    It seems to me if you watch the film looking for what it "argues for" you're going to be disappointed, because it is more suited for a kind of dramatic documentary, for it shows the visit of a Roman visitor in the person of an apparently American priest who has been sent by Rome to extinguish the TLM in this remote corner of Ireland.  

    Some parts are doubtful and appear to be depicting poetic license in movie-making.  But if you can look past that and take it "with a grain of salt," you should be able to enjoy the movie for the short moments of lucid Irish character acting, and the beautiful Irish scenery, in between the moments of derision and contempt for everything holy, much of which is drippingly displayed in the acting of Martin Sheen, whose face I really don't want to see ANYWHERE, but here he's tolerable because there is likely a nice Irish face nearby, somewhere.

    I think it's an enjoyable movie, but it's not for children.  I would rate it "R" for being disrespectful of the Canonized Latin Mass.  

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    Offline Graham

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    1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #16 on: August 16, 2014, 01:29:17 PM »
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  • Catholicism would not be where it is now if many of our so-called leaders over the past decades - conservative and traditionalist leadership included - were not as cynical and treacherous as that abbot, and if the orthodox faithful were not as easily cowed as those monks at last turned out.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: 1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #17 on: November 15, 2020, 08:40:25 PM »
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  • “Catholics” is thought provoking and prophetic.

    I believe it was produced by a jew in a made for TV flick.  I think it actually came out in 1971.  And the theme, that the old Catholic Church faithful had now become outlaws got my attention.

    The fascinating prophecy behind the movie was this: The jews were explaining to us just how they would hijack the Church.  Get the top leaders and the whole organization will follow.

    I thought the script was excellent and I wasn’t depressed by the ending.  The monks who wanted to fight for the Faith were inspiring.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: 1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #18 on: November 16, 2020, 12:02:19 AM »
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  • I have the movie in DVD, I think someone gave it to me, for I would never have paid money for it. I saw the movie like 25 years ago, and saw it as Novus Ordo junk. It is the type of emptiness you see on EWTN. If there is something I can't stand is having wasted my time, and this movie was a waste of time. Why? I'd say because it is not Catholic, a piece of garbage, and I would not waste one more second on it. Take my word for it, and if you do not, then that's your problem.

    From another thread, Claudel puts it more eloquently below. From what he wrote I'll steal the short of it: "it is a work descriptive of a conflict in which neither the protagonist nor his principal antagonist stands for anything Traditional Catholics claim to believe in.


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    Claudel wrote:

    I am genuinely puzzled by all the positive attention this film has been receiving from commenters here, especially those who, with or without good reason, regard themselves as tough-minded.


    I bought the book Catholics upon its first release here in the States about forty years ago. It was, if I recall, a Book of the Month Club sɛƖɛctıon—a very big deal back then, when reading a book was not something people did to take a break from cruising the Internet for predigested information and instant knowledgeability.

    Brian Moore, the author, was a most accomplished writer and a very graceful one, too. What's more, his having a good ear for speech in general and for the jargon of conciliarist publicists and propagandists (whether then or now) in particular lends a tone of instant recognizability to the debate that the novel enshrines. The problem is that the debate concerns not whether conciliarism or the old faith better represents God's truth or even whether any continuity remains between the new and the old faith but rather whether the psychological needs of people at large are better met by what the Irish American papal legate or the old abbot is plugging—put bluntly, which option has the more utility for the public: still more kumbaya or a return to smells and bells?

    My recollection of the movie (actually a British teleplay) is pretty dim—I watched it just the once, when it was shown for the first time on US television—but what I do quite vividly recall about it is less any departure from the style or focus of the novel (there wasn't any) than the impact that brilliant acting (Trevor Howard's) can make when it engages with laughably bad acting (Martin Sheen's). I suppose I can see why one would wish to think of Howard's abbot as defending the substance of the true faith, not simply its accidents—who in his right mind, after all, would ever want to associate himself with anything uttered by such a rotten representation of a transparent phony as Sheen's Kinsella?—but the abbot doesn't defend that substance because he's lost belief in it.

    A reader of the book would have a much harder time tugging the wool over his own eyes, there being on the printed page no ruggedly gorgeous scenery, no fancy camera work, no comforting Gregorian noises on the soundtrack playing in the background, and no classy acting by the guys togged out as monks. Even with all these distractions, surely one or two other commenters should have noticed that, to draw an analogy from political science, they were looking at a teleplay that amounted to a debate between an archliberal and a neocon: while they agree that Divine Truth is nonexistent and Christian belief is delusional, the former contends that all, for their own good, must be compelled to see the emptiness of their illusions/delusions, and the latter argues that a world without illusions is unlivable for the great mass of men and women. (Paging Leo Strauss, Leo Strauss! Professor Strauss, call your office.)

    To return, again and finally, to the book, which interests me infinitely more than a silly TV program, I repeat that it is a very fine thing of its kind, perhaps even a minor masterpiece within the genre of short fiction. But it is a work descriptive of a conflict in which neither the protagonist nor his principal antagonist stands for anything Traditional Catholics claim to believe in. That is, Brian Moore's Catholics is a fictional treatment of a subject about as relevant to the desire for the reconversion of Rome to the Faith as the matter of the latest entry in the X-men or Star Trek or Spider-Man franchise.

    My advice to Trad parents who think this is a good movie to show to their kids is as follows: learn to think otherwise!
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: 1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #19 on: November 16, 2020, 11:03:37 AM »
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  •  I guess I don’t get it ?  :popcorn:


    You guys have way more intellectual horsepower than I do.

    I took the movie as simply being about Holy religious holding out to defend the true Mass.

    At the time the film was produced, the traditional Catholic movement was in it’s infancy.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: 1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #20 on: November 16, 2020, 06:21:35 PM »
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  • I have a public-domain DVD of it, picked up at Dollar Tree, with the title "The Conflict".  IIRC I also downloaded it online once upon a time.  I found the movie rather bizarre, especially the ending where the surrendering monks were reciting the Our Father.  I see it as what I call a "spinach movie", something I might watch because it's "good for me", not necessarily enjoyable or interesting.

    I can't help but be reminded here of Popeye eating spinach, an early attempt at political correctness, giving Popeye some socially redeeming credit for eating a nutritional food (thus setting a good example for the kids) that usually doesn't come at the top of anybody's list of tasty, enjoyable things to eat.  (Full disclosure: I like spinach very much.  Most people do not.)

    Offline claudel

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    Re: 1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #21 on: November 17, 2020, 08:18:45 PM »
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  • I took the movie as simply being about holy religious holding out to defend the true Mass.

    There is certainly no reason to object to someone's deriving pleasure or enjoyment from a movie, either as a whole or in certain of its aspects, especially if the person in question is not in danger of being misled by the work's objectionable elements. As I wrote long ago, I was deeply touched by Trevor Howard's performance. He imparted a near-tragic dimension to the character of the abbot and his loss of faith. I was not moved, however, to wish myself in his shoes!

    Is reading or attending a performance of Macbeth to be discouraged or condemned because its protagonist consults witches and heeds their counsel? Some people have done so, but I am not one of them.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Re: 1973 film called "The Catholics"
    « Reply #22 on: November 22, 2020, 12:35:27 PM »
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  • This movie is a must for all Catholics especially Irish Catholics.
    However, you must get the original full version that was on American
    PBS.    The amazon versions which also includes the "the Catholics"
    Or "Conflict" have many important scenes that are missing from these videos.
    Also for some odd reason Barnes and Noble will not sell any copies to me and I noticed
    That there aren't any doay Rheims bible.  It seems that Barnes and noble  might be anti catholic.

    I notice they promote Wicca and all religions.
    Barnes and Noble is a general bookstore.  They sell what people want to buy.  The don't sell the DRV routinely because very few, if any, people ever walk into their stores looking for one.  They will be very happy to order one for you if you really want to get one from them.  I have done it without problems. 
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


     

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