Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Alex117 on February 11, 2013, 12:59:16 PM
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I thought I'd start the opening thread on this discussion, as I'm sure there's going to be plenty of speculation on this in the coming days.
When I started to think about who Benedict's successor will be, I started to groan in my mind at each person that I thought of. Imagine, if you will, one of these jokers ascending to the Papal Throne:
(http://i.imgur.com/tYiyIyq.jpg)
Archbishop Gerhard Muller
(http://i.imgur.com/xDmTjlEl.jpg)
Cardinal Timothy Dolan
(http://i.imgur.com/Nqxxcaj.jpg)
Cardinal Kurt Koch
I'm not looking forward to the Papacy being held by more modernists, but it's really just wishful thinking if I were to hope that dozens of modernist cardinals are going to come to the decision to elect a traditionalist. Who do you think has the most chance of becoming the next pope?
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With the resigning comes the paranoid craze and the speculations.
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National Catholic Reporter, February 11, 2013
Former President Bill Clinton to be Named Next Pope
In an ecuмenical gesture, sources in the Vatican have leaked serious discussions amongst Curial officials that the Conclave that will be convened in March to replace the retiring Pope Benedict XVI will name former President William Jefferson Clinton as the next pope of the Roman Catholic Church. Questions regarding whether or not the person named to be the pope must be Catholic have been brushed aside as an outdated tradition not compatible with modern humankind or the state of ecuмenical affairs in an ever more pluralistic world community. Clinton reacted to the news with cautious optimism saying that the papacy might be a good stepping stone toward his desire to be named Secretary General of the United Nations.
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The thing is, now the Cardinals can more easily plan for who they want to vote in there - my guess is that if we see the black smoke once, that'll be it.
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@TKGS Is it true? Or you were just joking?
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TKGS is just joking. Although that WOULD be worse than Benedict. :jester:
I hope Bertone doesn't get in. No one has menioned him yet, I don't think.
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Hmmm... might it be Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana
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I don't think Turkson would be good, based on what CathMom posted earlier today:
Interesting facts about the favored Cardinal who many speculate will become the next Pope.
Peter Cardinal Turkson aged 63
born to a Methodist mother and a Catholic father in 1948.
Ordained a priest July 20, 1975 in the Bogus Ordo
He holds a BA in Theology and holds a Doctorate in Sacred Scripture.
Consecrated a Bishop March 27, 1993.
He was one of the Cardinals in the last Conclave who selected Pope B16.
He is President of the Pontifical Council of Justice and Peace, a position he has held since 2009.
He is a member of several other Papal Councils, including the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.
He recently called for global public authority and a central world bank in a docuмent regarding the banking industry.
He also played a major role in the organization of Assisi III.
So, if he is chosen, what will be different than now?
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Reportedly, a lot of people are betting on Cardinal Turkson winning the Papal Election.
I guess if he is elected, the prophecy may be true, I'd just find it hard to believe that someone who supports the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr would ever Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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National Catholic Reporter, February 11, 2013
Former President Bill Clinton Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to be Named Next Pope
In an ecuмenical gesture, sources in the Vatican have leaked serious discussions amongst Curial officials that the Conclave that will be convened in March to replace the retiring Pope Benedict XVI will name former President William Jefferson Clinton as the next pope of the Roman Catholic Church. Questions regarding whether or not the person named to be the pope must be Catholic have been brushed aside as an outdated tradition not compatible with modern humankind or the state of ecuмenical affairs in an ever more pluralistic world community. Clinton reacted to the news with cautious optimism saying that the papacy might be a good stepping stone toward his desire to be named Secretary General of the United Nations.
:roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2:
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(http://diabolicomilan.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/cardinal-bertone.jpg)
Is it a sacrilege to book bets on this Conclave?
Now is the time for all of us to make sure we fervently pray three Rosaries a day.
For Holy Mother Church, the salvation of souls and our families.
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This entire Conclave is a sacrilege if the Cardinals are Modernists.
Yes, prayer is indeed something we should all be doing. The Rosary is the best starting point.
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BENEDICT XVI HAS RESIGNED !!!!!!!!!
I feel great exhilaration.
But I also feel great trepidation.
Possibly something very important is happening here.
Possibly God is soon going to intervene dramatically in the world.
Possibly it is already happening.
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I am very happy that that evil Apostate Benedict XVI will soon depart.
But was this resignation planned?
If so, why?
This is a day to rejoice.
But we also need to be very careful that we are not deceived.
And that "conclave" cannot elect a good man.
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Anyone see this photo, apparently they say lightning struck the dome the day of Ratzingers announcement...
God's fury.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/11/article-2276884-17841A9A000005DC-22_634x815.jpg)
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National Catholic Reporter, February 11, 2013
Former President Bill Clinton to be Named Next Pope
In an ecuмenical gesture, sources in the Vatican have leaked serious discussions amongst Curial officials that the Conclave that will be convened in March to replace the retiring Pope Benedict XVI will name former President William Jefferson Clinton as the next pope of the Roman Catholic Church. Questions regarding whether or not the person named to be the pope must be Catholic have been brushed aside as an outdated tradition not compatible with modern humankind or the state of ecuмenical affairs in an ever more pluralistic world community. Clinton reacted to the news with cautious optimism saying that the papacy might be a good stepping stone toward his desire to be named Secretary General of the United Nations.
It's a shame I can only upvote this once. Absolutely brilliant and hilarious, TKGS. :applause:
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Of course, he will be someone who "appears" to be a traditionalist,
someone decent, not someone ultra-liberal like JP I.
They want someone who "appears" traditional and decent because in this way they can deceive people for another round.
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I suppose if they voted for someone overtly liberal and modernist, they would maybe mean that they would be desperate. Perhaps they will elect someone who would seem more traditional in order to fool everyone still though.
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Did the lightning struck into the apartment or it was PS'd? First, pigeons caught by seagulls, and now this?
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Lightining ?
I can think of two instances where it is related to the devil.
1. When God the Father removed one third of the angels from Heaven.
It is interpreted as an act that was as fast as lightining.
2. Martin Luther is said to have been struck by lightining, when he was a Catholic priest.
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St. Paul was converted after being struck by lightning.
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(http://diabolicomilan.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/cardinal-bertone.jpg)
Is it a sacrilege to book bets on this Conclave?
Now is the time for all of us to make sure we fervently pray three Rosaries a day.
For Holy Mother Church, the salvation of souls and our families.
I really hope that guy doesn't get elected. I think it would be sort of like having Paul VI all over again.
I can't be certain, but I think Bertone is a Freemason.
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I believe lightning also struck St Peter's after the dogma of Papal Infallibility was declared: so....make of these signs what you will.
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St. Paul was converted after being struck by lightning.
God's ways are not our ways, St. Paul was struck blind that he might see.
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I believe lightning also struck St Peter's after the dogma of Papal Infallibility was declared [....]
The original Catholic Encyclopedia article on what was then the only "Vatican Council": http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15303a.htm, reported
During the proceedings a thunderstorm broke over the Vatican, and amid thunder and lightning the pope promulgated the new dogma [....]
But it doesn't report an outright lightning strike there. Is there a source elsewhere that confirms such an intriguing detail?
[....] so....make of these signs what you will.
Indeed. France declared war on Prussian Germany on the following day (July 19). Approximately 3/4 of the council members departed (from 435 casting votes on infallibility, to "only a few more than 100"). The military & diplomatic ripples of the new war allowed the secular-revolutionary Italian nationalists (a.k.a. Piedmontese) to invade the Papal states--again--this time entering Rome on Sep. 20, and capturing it, almost exactly 2 months after that thunderstorm, leaving Pius IX deprived of the Papal States, ruling a tiny--and iffy--remnant of centuries of temporal sovereignity: the Vatican. As a divine omen, it's entirely possible that that was what the thunderstorm augured.
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Not quite sure why the down thumbs. Only saying that one shouldn't look too deeply into things like this seeking for a meaning that isn't there.
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St. Paul was converted after being struck by lightning.
Was it lightining or a light ?
Wow... I can see it now.
The Consiliar Holy See, converted to traditional Catholicism, en masse, by a lightining bolt.
Consecration of Russia...? Here we come!
Mr. Obama...?
Why he best pack-up and get out of DC while he can still save his fanny.
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The best candidate, in my humble opinion, would seem to be Cardinal Ranjith because of Bishop Williamson's remark in a conference about how he was sent back to his diocese in Sri Lanka so that he would not question things more. I could be wrong though.
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I'd be surprised if Cardinal Burke or Cardinal Ranjith got elected. I think they're "too Traditional" for the conciliar church.
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I'd be surprised if Cardinal Burke or Cardinal Ranjith got elected. I think they're "too Traditional" for the conciliar church.
Their elections would indeed seem less likely still.
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The is fellow by the name of Thomas Horn who put out the book Petrus Romanus is very anti-Catholic and so is the rest of his crew, Chris Pinto, for one. Pinto did the Riddles in Stone movie and Secret History of Americas beginnings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8P4OIIWcU4
If you check out the comments on Amazon everyone who gave it one star was Catholic because of the Catholic bashing. One astute observer made note of the author's name T. Horn = Thorn and a few other peculiar names of those involved. Masons often have the strange names.
Anyway his book is all about the last pope. They think, according to St Malachy's prophecy, that Peter Turkman, the Cardinal from Africa will be the next/last pope.
I think the St. Malachy's prophecies were forged and I think these guys are frauds too. However I'm wondering if someone in the masonic hierarchy tipped them off on who the next pope will be. Of course, if it's anyone else they will be totally discredited but if they are right, I'll bet they got the info in advance. And if that turns out to be, then this guy's papal reign has been in the works for a long time.
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News With Views (http://www.newswithviews.com/Kincaid/cliff695.htm)
POPE'S POSSIBLE SUCCESSOR
PROMOTES MARXIST FOR SAINTHOOD
By Cliff Kincaid
February 12, 2013
NewsWithViews.com
American Catholic Cardinal Timothy Dolan, reported to be in the running to replace Pope Benedict XVI as the head of the Roman Catholic Church, is usually described as a “conservative” because he has strongly criticized President Obama’s attacks on religious liberty and federal intrusions into church affairs. But Dolan is also the leader of the campaign to promote Marxist Dorothy Day for Sainthood.
One report asks, “Could Timothy Dolan Become The First American Pope?” Dolan, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB,) is considered the voice of U.S. Catholicism.
But Carol Byrne, author of The Catholic Worker Movement (1933-1980): A Critical Analysis, says Dolan manipulated a vote by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops last November to move forward with the canonization of Dorothy Day, even though The New York Times itself noted that some of the Bishops said “she had an abortion as a young woman and at one point flirted with joining the Communist Party.”
The Times story was headlined, “In Hero of the Catholic Left, a Conservative Cardinal Sees a Saint.” Day, a major figure in the “Catholic Worker” movement, died in 1980.
In a letter obtained by this journalist, Virginia State Senator Richard H. “Di-ck” Black was so disgusted by the push for sainthood for Dorothy Day that he told the Pope on January 7, 2013, that he was “appalled” that “a woman of such loathsome character” would be considered for sainthood.
Black, a retired Marine Corps colonel, noted that “Vatican archives are filled with reports of Christians martyred under the regimes that Dorothy Day supported. I am revolted by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ support for the canonization of a woman whose views supported the violent extermination of Christians throughout the world. I ask that these matters be carefully weighed so that the Holy See will not be inadvertently misled when considering the canonization of Dorothy Day.”
As a Marine pilot, Black fought the communists. He flew 269 combat missions in Vietnam and was wounded during fierce ground fighting with the 1st Marine Regiment.
“I am particularly concerned about her support for Ho Chi Minh,” Black said in his letter. He said that he had recently hosted a group of 12 Vietnamese men, each of whom served as senior officials in the Free Republic of Vietnam during the time when the North Vietnamese Communists overwhelmed Saigon in 1975. “Six of them were imprisoned in cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρs no less severe than those of the nαzιs in Germany,” he explained.
Regarding Dorothy Day’s “flirtation” with the Communist Party, as the Times put it, Carol Byrne told this journalist, “…I have provided proof, drawn from archival evidence and other authentic sources, that even after her conversion to Catholicism, Day became a member of several socialist organizations and was actively involved in political groups (including trade unions) whose founders and leaders were predominantly Communist Party members. She also supported the causes of individual Communists who were in the pay of the Soviet Union.”
Byrne went on, “This must be considered against the background of successive Popes who condemned communism as ‘intrinsically evil.’ They forbade Catholics from supporting Communists, and in July 1949 Pope Pius XII issued a decree of excommunication against anyone who collaborated with Communists or joined their associations. There is evidence to show that Day simply shrugged off the papal ban: she did not see communism as a real problem, or experience any moral quandary for a Catholic working in coalition with such groups professedly dedicated to ‘Justice and Peace.’”
State Senator Black said he was extremely concerned that, for almost 50 years, Day was the editor of a pro-communist newspaper, the Catholic Worker. He noted that the 58l-page FBI file on Day “contains a recommendation that Dorothy Day be considered for custodial detention in the event of a national emergency.”
His letter to the Pope went on to say that he was particularly concerned about Day’s “favorable writings regarding Lenin, Castro, Mao, and Ho Chi Minh. As you well know, each of the above dictators ordered the execution of Catholic priests among the millions of other Christians murdered by these regimes.”
Carol Byrne confirmed that Day “supported the policies of hostile foreign powers operating from Moscow, Havana, Peking and Hanoi against her own country, the USA. She also wrote favorably about such socialist dictators as Lenin, Castro, Mao and Ho Chi Minh, even though they had all violently persecuted the Church in their respective countries. Nor could she in principle bring herself to condemn the social and economic ideals of Marxism.”
Nevertheless, The New York Times reported, “Cardinal Dolan has embraced her cause with striking zeal: speaking on the anniversaries of her birth and death, distributing Dorothy Day prayer cards to parishes and even buying roughly 100 copies of her biography to give out last year as Christmas gifts to civic officials including Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg.”
© 2013 Cliff Kincaid - All Rights Reserved
"------in July 1949 Pope Pius XII issued a decree of excommunication against anyone who collaborated with Communists or joined their associations."
This is interesting: Does anyone know where to find a copy of this decree?
That was the year before the dogmatic definition of Our Lady's Assumption, and
the year after the establishment of the state of Israel. This would be the last
time Communism was specifically dealt with in the Roman Church. The subject
was ignored all during Vatican II. Was this excommunication ever lifted or
discontinued? If not, then it's still in place!
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I fail to see the incompatability of anything in this article to a cause for sainthood in the Conciliar church or to the qualifications of the proponent to the papacy of the Conciliary church.
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It would be a disaster if Dolan was chosen, but I doubt he will win, because Cardinals from the US don't tend to be prefered.
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TKGS is just joking. Although that WOULD be worse than Benedict. :jester:
I hope Bertone doesn't get in. No one has menioned him yet, I don't think.
Some have mentioned him as his name is pietro. What a mess. There are no TRADITIONAL cardinals so how can a traditional cardinal be elected for the next pope? There has also been mention of Pietro Parolin.
The next pope will be the one for Tribulations. Be Vigilant!
Tantum Aude!
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My husband and I think Italian Scola(?) will be next because he favors Mohammand.(sp)
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Anyone see this photo, apparently they say lightning struck the dome the day of Ratzingers announcement...
God's fury.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/11/article-2276884-17841A9A000005DC-22_634x815.jpg)
Thats funny- why would God be furious if he's not pope to you? ?
In your mind, a man, who is not Pope, but who claims to be pope, has just abdicated from the position he's usurped. Shouldn't that make God happy?
I agree with Roland Deschain- stop reading into things so much. Enough fantasy- come back to the real world.
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Maybe.... God knows whilst things in rome are very bad..... worse is to come...... :sad:
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Perhaps God is a little upset that "they" are making a mockery of the Chair of Peter with their novelties.
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someone on another forum said they hoped the next "pope" will be flaming modernist so that it will be easy to know he is a fraud. Ratzinger's own writings provided enough proof that he wasn't catholic as Archbishop Lefebvre pointed out years ago.
There is more of a danger if we get a pseudo traditional pope, many could be deceived.
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I don't give a lot of weight to the alleged prophecy of St Malachy but...
Tarcisio Pietro Evasio Cardinal Bertone born in Romano Canavese on 2 Dec 1934
He's sort of Peter, sort of a Roman and sort of the right age.
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What, no one thinks Mahony has a chance? :rolleyes:
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I think Card. Mueller has a chance.
Card. Turksen is in the running.
I'm not really sure.
Can anyone point to someone in the running in which they could say "This cardinal would restore tradition and end the conciliar period."?
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Can anyone point to someone in the running in which they could say "This cardinal would restore tradition and end the conciliar period."?
I'm afraid not. The best choice would probably be Burke, but he wouldn't end the conciliar period. He would just make things a little better.
I could picture him Consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. I just fear that he might be too weak. And probably "too traditional" to get elected.
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The Post (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=22953&min=31&num=15) to which this was apparently a response:
I fail to see the [incompatibility] of anything in this article to [with?] a cause for sainthood in the Conciliar church or to [with?] the qualifications of the proponent [profiteri?] to the papacy of the [Conciliar] church.
(FYI: proponent means someone who is in favor of something. So "the
proponent to the papacy" would be someone who is in favor of something
unmentioned moving (inferred) toward the papal office.)
I couldn't tell what you meant by saying that you don't see the incompatibility
of anything in the article (with) someone who is an advocate promoting something
unidentified moving toward the papacy. That made no sense to me, sorry.
Normally we do not say "a proponent to something," but rather "a proponent
for or of something." You do not vote to the mayor of a city, but you vote
for the mayor of a city. Salesmen are not proponents to purchase their
products, but are proponents for, or of the purchase of their products.
I was not advocating the article I posted. I was only providing the reference,
that is, where this statement came from that I was asking about..
My intention for posting the article was to provide the readers with a context
for the quote to which I was hoping someone would respond, to wit:
"...in July 1949 Pope Pius XII issued a decree of excommunication against anyone who collaborated with Communists or joined their associations."
This (above) is interesting:
Does anyone know where to find a copy of this decree?
That was the year before the dogmatic definition of Our Lady's Assumption,
and the year after the establishment of the state of Israel. This would be
the last time Communism was specifically dealt with in the Roman Church.
The subject was ignored all during Vatican II. Was this excommunication
ever lifted or discontinued? If not, then it's still in place!
Does anyone know about this decree of excommunication that Pius XII issued?
I've done a search and can't come up with anything.
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Does anyone know about this decree of excommunication that Pius XII issued?
I've done a search and can't come up with anything.
http://geocities.ws/caleb1x/docuмents/communism.html
In case the link does not work...........................
[EXCOMMUNICATION OF COMMUNISTS]
DECREE OF THE HOLY OFFICE
FORMULATED BY PIUS XII
JULY 1, 1949
This Sacred Supreme Congregation has been asked:
1. whether it is lawful to join Communist Parties or to favour them;
2. whether it is lawful to publish, disseminate, or read books, periodicals, newspapers or leaflets which support the teaching or action of Communists, or to write in them;
3. whether the faithful who knowingly and freely perform the acts specified in questions 1 and 2 may be admitted to the Sacraments;
4. whether the faithful who profess the materialistic and anti-Christian doctrine of the Communists, and particularly those who defend or propagate this doctrine, contract ipso facto excommunication specially reserved to the Apostolic See as apostates from the Catholic faith.
The Most Eminent and Most Reverend Fathers entrusted with the supervision of matters concerning the safeguarding of Faith and morals, having previously heard the opinion of the Reverend Lords Consultors, decreed in the plenary session held on Tuesday (instead of Wednesday), June 28, 1949, that the answers should be as follows:
To 1. in the negative: because Communism is materialistic and anti-Christian; and the leaders of the Communists, although they sometimes profess in words that they do not oppose religion, do in fact show themselves, both in their teaching and in their actions, to be the enemies of God, of the true religion and of the Church of Christ;
to 2. in the negative: they are prohibited ipso iure (cf. Can. 1399 of the Codex Iuris Canonici);
to 3. in the negative, in accordance with the ordinary principles concerning the refusal of the Sacraments to those who are not disposed;
to 4. in the affirmative.
And the following Thursday, on the 30th day of the same month and year, Our Most Holy Lord Pius XII, Pope by the Divine Providence, in the ordinary audience, granted to the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Assessor of the Sacred Office, approved of the decision of the Most Eminent Fathers which had been reported to Him, and ordered the same to be promulgated officially in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis.
Given at Rome, on July 1st, 1949.
(Signed) Petrus Vigorita,
Notary of the Sacred Supreme Congregation
of the Holy Oflice.
For the heck of it, here is a newspaper article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19490714&id=N31aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lU4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4557,1747704) from 1949 about it.
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Not sure what this is, it came in my email today:
February 20, 2013
Recent news of Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation has sparked speculation that more may be involved than the publicly cited reason that the Holy Father's health no longer enabled him to continue.
Sources close to both the Pope and the Vatican have informed LIGNET that Benedict's decision was brought on by his declining health in the context of a major power struggle within the Holy See.
Two major appointments made by Benedict in the closing days of his papacy, including one to install a new head of the Vatican Bank, are signs of this struggle.
Vatican insiders, including a close friend of Benedict's, reveal to LIGNET details of the intrigue swirling around this historic power struggle that has marked the last days of his papacy.
A key source suggests that four cardinals, including two from Latin America, are the leading contenders. LIGNET identifies the front-runner to become the next pope, a cardinal who was close to John Paul II, trusted by Benedict, skilled in Vatican maneuvering, and who has been in the front lines dealing with the rise of radical Islam.
Read more: http://www.lignet.com/home.aspx#ixzz2LSuXPKuJ
All Rights Reserved LIGNET.com
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Not to make light of this important issue, but much like no current or future hockey player is permitted to wear #99 in the NHL, neither is another pope permitted to use the name of Peter....Anyways, I'm expecting a disruption of some sort at the conclave, which would essentially put Card Bertone in charge of church affairs in the interim. Of course, when a pope dies, or in this case abdicates, the curia ceases to exist in the sense that it may not make any decrees, make decisions of importance. Their only duties are to attend to day to day church affairs. Much like when a parliamentary government falls.,,,,,this is my take on things at least.
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My Mum said that the Hungarian "Cardinal" would permit Communion for the divorced living in a "second marriage".