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Author Topic: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted  (Read 1226 times)

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Offline Markus

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Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
« on: May 19, 2019, 08:50:38 PM »
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    • In 1983, a member of the Brazilian TFP, Prof. Orlando Fedeli, resigned the organisation and published accusations of the organisation to the masonic press. Among other attacks, he accused the certain TFP members, most notably Atila Sinke Guimarães, of being "slaves" to Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira. Mr. Guimarães then prepared TFP's response (in the form of 3 books) to the various attacks of Prof. Fedeli.

    Until now, the 3 books, which are an apologetic and defense of the TFP and the principles animating it, were only available in Portuguese. 

    However, Atila's study is now available in English for the first time through Tradition in Action! You can read this fascinating and edifying book here: https://traditioninaction.org/Library/texts/A_001_ServCar.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1rRuucbL9eSBU5Sb2qBD8g_aAUI6xUNyaCCahfs7k_G4FCxta3sRrLeT4

    This book is a magnificent defense of the TFP and its spiritual successor in the United States, Tradition in Action. It becomes clear that the attacks against the person of Dr. Plinio and his TFP, and against Tradition in Action in more recent years, is motivated by a desire to prevent the Catholic counter-revolution, or at least to steal the banner for other organisations.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 10:32:26 PM »
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    • It's to the SSPX's political advantage to run a smear campaign against Atila and TIA.

    Menzingen is now the center of "kosher" tradition and they want to eliminate any competition to their fake-authority.

    They will use every resource at hand to demean their traditional Catholic opposition.  
    (SSPX sycophant priests, trad groupies, and their propaganda outlets such as the Angelus Press and Catholic Family News).
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 05:14:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on May 19, 2019, 10:32:26 PM
    It's to the SSPX's political advantage to run a smear campaign against Atila and TIA.

    Menzingen is now the center of "kosher" tradition and they want to eliminate any competition to their fake-authority.

    They will use every resource at hand to demean their traditional Catholic opposition.  
    (SSPX sycophant priests, trad groupies, and their propaganda outlets such as the Angelus Press and Catholic Family News).

    The SSPX may be guilty of many things, but when have they run a "smear campaign" against Atila and TIA?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Markus

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 01:43:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on May 20, 2019, 05:14:34 AM
    The SSPX may be guilty of many things, but when have they run a "smear campaign" against Atila and TIA?
    I believe the attacks on Dr. Plinio and Atila (slavery, cult, Plinio's mother, etc) are taught in the SSPX seminaries. A direct smear campaign, no, but I do believe there is an indirect one. One thing is clear, SSPX does not like TFP, TIA, Plinio, or anyone else.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 03:41:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Markus on May 20, 2019, 01:43:18 PM
    I believe the attacks on Dr. Plinio and Atila (slavery, cult, Plinio's mother, etc) are taught in the SSPX seminaries. A direct smear campaign, no, but I do believe there is an indirect one. One thing is clear, SSPX does not like TFP, TIA, Plinio, or anyone else.
    One thing for sure is that Atila never retracted his error and calumny against Venerable Pius IX by publishing false claims, written by Freemasons, that Pius IX was himself a Freemason. This has been demonstrably proven to be false using Catholic authors, but he continues to allow this filthy lie to remain on his website.  
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 03:59:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Markus on May 20, 2019, 01:43:18 PM
    I believe the attacks on Dr. Plinio and Atila (slavery, cult, Plinio's mother, etc) are taught in the SSPX seminaries. A direct smear campaign, no, but I do believe there is an indirect one. One thing is clear, SSPX does not like TFP, TIA, Plinio, or anyone else.

    When I was in the seminary, TFP was barely mentioned.  If they mentioned it, it was only in passing.  In general, they were not too favorable, but not overtly hostile either.  More like they didn't care that much.  +Williamson was ambivalent, not sure.
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    Offline Markus

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 08:27:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on May 20, 2019, 03:41:58 PM
    One thing for sure is that Atila never retracted his error and calumny against Venerable Pius IX by publishing false claims, written by Freemasons, that Pius IX was himself a Freemason. This has been demonstrably proven to be false using Catholic authors, but he continues to allow this filthy lie to remain on his website.  
    To be clear, Atila has published the claims of the Freemasons as an open question to be discussed, and not as a definitive opinion on his (or TIA's) part. TIA actually speaks quite highly of Pius IX as their site demonstrates on several pages. 
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/i005rpPiusIX_PapalStates.htm
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/a051rpImmConc.html
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/History/C_013_Vital_3.html
    (These are just a few examples)
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 08:36:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Markus on May 20, 2019, 08:27:10 PM
    To be clear, Atila has published the claims of the Freemasons as an open question to be discussed, and not as a definitive opinion on his (or TIA's) part. TIA actually speaks quite highly of Pius IX as their site demonstrates on several pages.
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/i005rpPiusIX_PapalStates.htm
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/a051rpImmConc.html
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/History/C_013_Vital_3.html
    (These are just a few examples)
    No good Catholic would ever publish refuted freemasonic lies about a pope, especially one as good as Pius IX.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Markus

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 08:49:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on May 20, 2019, 08:36:05 PM
    No good Catholic would ever publish refuted freemasonic lies about a pope, especially one as good as Pius IX.
    Please post the refutations. And feel free to send them to TIA as well. As I said before, TIA treats it as an open question to be discussed.
    Obviously, everyone hopes Pius IX was never a Mason, but the allegations are worthy of investigation. 
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 08:59:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Markus on May 20, 2019, 08:49:04 PM
    Please post the refutations. And feel free to send them to TIA as well. As I said before, TIA treats it as an open question to be discussed.
    Obviously, everyone hopes Pius IX was never a Mason, but the allegations are worthy of investigation.
    I did send a refutation to TIA immediately when the article appeared and he laughed it off as an attack by a sedevacantist. Here is my letter to him:
    Quote
    Dear Mr. A.S. Guimarães,

    It seems to me that if you spent less time referencing works by the Church's enemies to advance your unjust attack upon those of us who hold the theologically supported position of sedevacantism and more time studying Catholic literature, you would be immensely better off.

    I've decided to lend you a hand and do some research for you.

    Please read the following pages from The Life of Pope Pius IX by John Gilmary Shea LL.D., 1877:

    Quote


    I hope this information helps you and I trust that you will see fit to retract your article.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Markus

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 09:03:44 PM »
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    • I cannot see the excerpts, but I would like to read them if you would repost them. Thank you.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Slaves of Dr. Plinio? An Attack Refuted
    « Reply #11 on: May 20, 2019, 09:05:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Markus on May 20, 2019, 09:03:44 PM
    I cannot see the excerpts, but I would like to read them if you would repost them. Thank you.
    Sorry, I fixed it.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?
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