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Author Topic: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%  (Read 857 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
« on: September 16, 2018, 09:53:17 AM »
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  • I know, I know...arsenic in your tea, sugar in your gas tank.

    But that analogy doesn't always apply. What about living in a given location? What city do you live in? Are the people there even 99.99% good? Somehow I doubt it.
    Sounds to me like you're chug-a-lugg-ing a whole gallon of arsenic-contaminated tea!

    People so often lose sight of the big picture. They watch a priest or bishop's every move, and as soon as he says JUST ONE THING they disagree with, they are no longer his "fan" and want nothing to do with him, any more than a Packers fan wants anything to do with the Chicago Bears.

    They forget how to ignore flaws. They forget how to compromise. I know, I said the C word! Compromise is only evil when applied to the Faith, Catholic morality, or something similar. It's impossible to never compromise in your ideals or principles in this world. Do you live in a Catholic country that acknowledges the reign of Christ the King? I didn't think so. So which Freemasonic republic do you pay your taxes to? See my point?

    This is especially toxic when applied to Traditional Catholic priests, and especially Traditional bishops -- there is a catastrophic shortage of both.

    It doesn't matter if that Traditional bishop doesn't require you to agree with him on everything, or puts some statements out there as mere opinions. No, I've seen people get all dejected/upset when they discover that they don't agree with a bishop fully, and they completely write him off. It doesn't matter if he is otherwise completely spot-on and doing a great job holding to the traditional Catholic Faith. It also doesn't matter to them that they don't have any better option.

    This could be applied to Traditional Catholic fora, political figures, family members, just about anything. It's like they are simple minded but WANT to be wise: they remember the analogy about arsenic in the tea and sugar in the gas tank, and they become so idealistic they lose touch with reality. But how can one insist on perfection in an imperfect world? How can one remain in the society of human beings while insisting on perfection to any degree?

    Prudence is knowing when to apply which wise sayings. Wisdom isn't as easy as buying and/or memorizing a book of famous quotations.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
    « Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 03:11:18 PM »
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  • It's a natural consequence of the Crisis in the Church. Before Vatican II, there was just the Catholic Church. You went to the Mass closest to you and that was that. What the local Bishop said was hardly relevant, even if he said what you thought to be the most inane and stupid things it wouldn't stop you going to Mass - why would it? The obligation would remain and the local Bishop's personal opinions wouldn't affect it or your experience of the Mass in any way. 

    But now with the Crisis there effectively is no united Church anymore. Just going to any old Catholic Church isn't good enough anymore. Now thanks to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, people must look for the "Traditional Remnant" so to speak, the churches and priests that stay true to the Tridentine Mass and pre-Vatican II Church. But there's the issue, no one knows what the true "Traditional Remnant" is. There are dozens of groups of a handful of priests each with their own organisations, each organisation constantly splintering and condemning each other either for modernism, or feeneyism, or pelagianism, or sedevacantism, or whatever else. The SSPX has had multiple schisms, and each schism of the SSPX has had its own schism, and many Trad groups never came from the SSPX in the first place. Then you have Thuc line Bishops, etc. who make the issue even more confusing.

    So now when a Trad looks for the "Traditional Remnant" closest to him, it isn't nearly so easy as looking for the closest Catholic Church. He's faced with a multitude of organisations and independent priests who all claim to be the Trad Remnant, all while attacking and discrediting each other. So what's a Trad to do? Well, he sees which group matches up closest with his own beliefs and opinions and goes for that. But then when that group changes its opinions or beliefs, suddenly his reason for going with them in the first place is brought into question. Did he make the right choice in the first place? Perhaps that other SSPX shoot-off was the actually the right option. It can be greatly confusing and distressing.

    And that's why Trads focus too much on the personal opinions of Priests and Bishops, because really that's all they have to go on to know what Mass to go to. So people take it to the extreme and turn Priests into celebrities and Trad-forums into magazines, gossiping and slandering various Priests because they disagree on minutiae. It's a bad situation, but it's a natural consequence of the Crisis I think and a flaw that would affect any movement as fractured as the Trad one.


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
    « Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 12:04:04 AM »
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  • It's a natural consequence of the Crisis in the Church. Before Vatican II, there was just the Catholic Church. You went to the Mass closest to you and that was that. What the local Bishop said was hardly relevant, even if he said what you thought to be the most inane and stupid things it wouldn't stop you going to Mass - why would it? The obligation would remain and the local Bishop's personal opinions wouldn't affect it or your experience of the Mass in any way.

    But now with the Crisis there effectively is no united Church anymore. Just going to any old Catholic Church isn't good enough anymore. Now thanks to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, people must look for the "Traditional Remnant" so to speak, the churches and priests that stay true to the Tridentine Mass and pre-Vatican II Church. But there's the issue, no one knows what the true "Traditional Remnant" is. There are dozens of groups of a handful of priests each with their own organisations, each organisation constantly splintering and condemning each other either for modernism, or feeneyism, or pelagianism, or sedevacantism, or whatever else. The SSPX has had multiple schisms, and each schism of the SSPX has had its own schism, and many Trad groups never came from the SSPX in the first place. Then you have Thuc line Bishops, etc. who make the issue even more confusing.

    So now when a Trad looks for the "Traditional Remnant" closest to him, it isn't nearly so easy as looking for the closest Catholic Church. He's faced with a multitude of organisations and independent priests who all claim to be the Trad Remnant, all while attacking and discrediting each other. So what's a Trad to do? Well, he sees which group matches up closest with his own beliefs and opinions and goes for that. But then when that group changes its opinions or beliefs, suddenly his reason for going with them in the first place is brought into question. Did he make the right choice in the first place? Perhaps that other SSPX shoot-off was the actually the right option. It can be greatly confusing and distressing.

    And that's why Trads focus too much on the personal opinions of Priests and Bishops, because really that's all they have to go on to know what Mass to go to. So people take it to the extreme and turn Priests into celebrities and Trad-forums into magazines, gossiping and slandering various Priests because they disagree on minutiae. It's a bad situation, but it's a natural consequence of the Crisis I think and a flaw that would affect any movement as fractured as the Trad one.
    How is this constant splintering not the same as what happens in Protestantism?  The effects on the individual who continually finds himself pushed out is the same.  Take a side in a petty argument and shut out others, or find yourself alone.  I've been alone since All Saints Day, 2014 when I got pushed out of the last remaining option for Mass.  The strange thing is that I believe exactly what I believed for the nine years prior to my conversion from Protestant to Catholic.  It's just that now, nobody will have me!

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
    « Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 12:06:38 PM »
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  • The Shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered. 

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
    « Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 01:07:09 PM »
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  • How is this constant splintering not the same as what happens in Protestantism?  The effects on the individual who continually finds himself pushed out is the same.  Take a side in a petty argument and shut out others, or find yourself alone.  I've been alone since All Saints Day, 2014 when I got pushed out of the last remaining option for Mass.  The strange thing is that I believe exactly what I believed for the nine years prior to my conversion from Protestant to Catholic.  It's just that now, nobody will have me!
    Well Protestantism was an intentional severance from the Church where many different groups threw out the Magisterium altogether and formed their own doctrines from scratch. Every Trad group strives to maintain and follow what the Church has always taught and practice what the Church has always practiced, even the Conciliar Church claims to. The splits in Trad groups are mostly over non-theological issues, and the splits that are over theological issues are usually very minor(the exception being BOD, which has become a great point of dispute in recent times). It's impossible to call them separate religions really, and every(or virtually every) Trad in the Resistance would acknowledge Trads in the mainline SSPX as Catholic, etc. That wasn't the case for Protestants where each group very clearly confessed entirely different faiths and weren't claiming to follow the same Magisterium and dogmas at all. 


    Offline 800 Cruiser

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    Re: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
    « Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 12:52:55 AM »
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  • So. 
    I was conditionally baptized September 15, 2018. 
    In a church that is “Pre Vatican II Latin Mass”. 
    The priest is without a doubt on fire with God, and is an excellent teacher. I have commented many times, and will not stop in the future, that I wish I had met him many years ago. I would have become Catholic back then, this man is that good. 
    In the decades of my former life I invited people to church exactly ZERO times, yet here I invite as many people as possible not for the mass, but for the priest. 

    That said, I am horrified at the souls lost due to being led astray. I have a natural disinclination towards authorities to start with and now I place my soul (and that of my wife and children) at the hands of an organisation that I cannot be sure is the correct one. 

    My answer to this?

    TRUST GOD. 

    Do what you are supposed to be doing, and God will take care of the rest!!

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Since when does .01% override the other 99.99%
    « Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 05:48:36 AM »
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  • I know, I know...arsenic in your tea, sugar in your gas tank.

    But that analogy doesn't always apply. What about living in a given location? What city do you live in? Are the people there even 99.99% good? Somehow I doubt it.
    Sounds to me like you're chug-a-lugg-ing a whole gallon of arsenic-contaminated tea!
    In one of Fr. John O'Connor's talks on the subject of communists and their tactics, he said that, most of the time it only takes an organized 1 or 2% (I can't remember which) of any group or population with a specific agenda, to sway the thinking of the rest of the group or population to agree with their agenda. All anyone needs to do to see how true that is is to watch the recent protests on MSM, as well as over the last 50 years. Soros likely only funds a relatively small amount for only few protesters - the hundreds or thousands of useful idiots join for free.

    Whether intentional or not, imo it is likely something similar occurs as regards the OP.



     
     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse