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Author Topic: Should priests be allowed to marry?  (Read 6552 times)

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Offline s2srea

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Should priests be allowed to marry?
« on: October 24, 2012, 04:49:04 AM »
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  • Is there a good apologetic reason / source for why not?

    I know and understand the reasons why, (no need to repeat them here, if you don't mind) I'm just looking for additional resources pointing expounding on this.

    Thank you!


    Offline Clelia

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 07:35:29 AM »
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  • As we already know, Eastern priests are (not Bishops, etc.) but, in the West, wasn't St. Peter married? As well, others? Why celibacy? Although it sounds noble and "clean" if you will, a married priest is not really an issue with me, but I am not in charge.

    I see no reason why not, with the exceptions of juggling family issues with parish responsibilities (that's what Mrs. Priest is for) as well as the added expense involved in supporting them, which would become more of a financial burden on the parishioners. Yet, Eastern priests have always had some additional employment to offset and even totally provide for this, and their parishioners have always supported that concept and worked around it. They pitch in and help around the parishes more, and no one is paid for their services, like n.o. cleaning people, or many other needs the Pastor might require that n.o. parish pay for, unless no one is available to fix the plumbing, and a plumber must be brought in and paid, itd.

    In sum: it's all what we get used to.

    Both married and celibate priests have their issues and obstacles, yet, I think it is better to be married, because they DO understand married life better, (OK - many unmarried priests with big families have a good handle too, but not the same, IMHO!!!) As well, married priests in general (we would expect) are not ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs or have need of hooking up with women. They understand children better, instead of getting all p-o'd at Mass by telling parents to remove their kids because they are making noise (yeah -- incessant screamers are another matter).

    Again: it's all what we get used to. I see it as a benefit in many, many ways over any obstacles. There are worse things!!!
    Leaving the Boyz Club of little popes. SWAK.


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 08:11:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: St. Paul the Apostle, First Letter to the Corinthians
    7 For I would that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. 8 But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I.


    In short, YOU think it's better that priests be married. The Holy Apostle St. Paul thinks it is NOT better. I think we and Holy Church will side with the Apostle who was faithful to His Lord and Tradition.

    Priestly celibacy is a GIFT from God, a special charism of the Holy Ghost that men who are CALLED to the holy office of the priesthood are privileged to receive.

    Sitting around saying, "I think it's better" does no one in the Church any good. The Latin Church has decreed, for Her own reasons and to accomplish Her own purposes, that Her priests are to be unmarried and celibate.

    I figured since you post here, you must be a traditional Roman Catholic. I keep forgetting that there are plenty of people on here who only post for the sake of argument.

    What is it about obedience to Tradition that bothers so many of you so much? Roma locuta est, causa finita est.

    Our Lord ordained 12 MEN. They chose MEN for their successors, always have and always will. There is NO evidence from history, Tradition or Holy Scripture that anything else is or ever has been needful, helpful or even possible.

    St. John Vianney, patron of faithful and holy priests, pray for us.

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

    Sacred Hear of Jesus, have mercy on us,
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline JohnGrey

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 08:16:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Is there a good apologetic reason / source for why not?

    I know and understand the reasons why, (no need to repeat them here, if you don't mind) I'm just looking for additional resources pointing expounding on this.

    Thank you!


    When you say apologetic, what do you mean?  Are you looking for papal pronouncements, the writings of Doctors or Fathers?  Basic logic?  What are you looking for?

    Offline Clelia

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 08:28:10 AM »
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  • The question was asked, and I responded.

    True enough, celibacy is regarded highly over the married state. Yet, I DO post here because I am a Traditional Catholic, and true, St. Peter WAS INDEED married, and true, it was NOT a teaching of the early Church that any or all priests be celibate.

    Better is not absolute.

    Besides, St. Paul speaking of the unmarried to continue in the strictest sense would depopulate the earth, and widows and widowers remaining unmarried after the death of their spouse would be a great offering to God, yet, even i the Bible is states:

       
    Deuteronomy 25:5  
    When brethren dwell together, and one of them dieth without children, the wife of the deceased shall not marry to another: but his brother shall take her, and raise up seed for his brother:

    Matthew 22:24  
    Saying: Master, Moses said: If a man die having no son, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up issue to his brother.

    Genesis 38:8
    Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother's wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother.

    First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians Chapter 7:

    36] But if any man think that he seemeth dishonoured, with regard to his virgin, for that she is above the age, and it must so be: let him do what he will; he sinneth not, if she marry. [37] For he that hath determined being steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but having power of his own will; and hath judged this in his heart, to keep his virgin, doth well. [38] Therefore, both he that giveth his virgin in marriage, doth well; and he that giveth her not, doth better. [39] A woman is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband die, she is at liberty: let her marry to whom she will; only in the Lord. [40] But more blessed shall she be, if she so remain, according to my counsel; and I think that I also have the spirit of God.

    True enough: the virginal state is indeed preferred to the married state.

    PREFERRED.

    Spend some time around and talking with Eastern Priests. It may help you understand much.
    Leaving the Boyz Club of little popes. SWAK.


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 09:04:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Clelia
    True enough: the virginal state is indeed preferred to the married state.

     PREFERRED.


    You're confusing and conflating the married state/single state issue with HOLY ORDERS. When St. Paul is talking about singleness being PREFERABLE, he is speaking, in general, to the LAITY. St. Peter was also married BEFORE he was ordained, which is the precise reason WHY Eastern priests are allowed to be ordained if they are ALREADY married. They are not allowed to marry AFTER being ordained, for exactly the reasons St. Paul listed.

    St. Peter was also described as 'leading around' a wife; there is good reason to believe that this choice of phrase refers to his care for her temporal needs and not a conjugal relationship.

    Holy St. Joseph was married to Our Lady; She remained a Virgin Her whole life. Was/is there something wrong with THEIR married life not being conjugal? Obviously, St. Joseph's example is a beautiful one... he was, in a sense, 'ordained' to his role as caregiver to Our Lady and to Our Lord Jesus Christ, and yet, his faithfulness to his calling did not include, and is not judged by, his enjoyment of conjugal rights.

    The argument about 'depopulating the earth' is laughable. There are BILLIONS of people who are not of the Faith; they can populate the earth for you. LOL

    St. Paul is speaking of the CONSECRATED religious life when he says that each 'has his own gift from God'. The PREFERENCE he refers to is his OWN personal preference that the unmarried and widows remain as he was. That word, prefer, presumes St. Paul's TEACHING of these Christians about the different challenges of single, married and consecrated life.

    You are acting like a Protestant when you take these verses of Holy Scripture and act as though these are the ONLY things the Apostle said on these matters. The letters of Scripture are only a GLIMPSE at the pastoral care and spiritual direction that the holy Apostles gave to their congregations.

    Please stop flouting your prideful disobedience to Holy Church. As a traditional Catholic, you should not be calling into question what has been defined by the Church. You have no right and have not been given the charisms that our Holy Fathers have been.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 09:15:29 AM »
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  • Quote
    Please stop flouting your prideful disobedience to Holy Church. As a traditional Catholic, you should not be calling into question what has been defined by the Church. You have no right and have not been given the charisms that our Holy Fathers have been.


    While I think Clelia is wrong, I don't think she was "flouting [her] prideful disobedience."

    What people need to understand is that the disciplines of the Church are protected by Christ's promise to the Church.

    Mandatory clerical celibacy for Roman Rite priests cannot be a bad discipline.

    There are many spiritual and practical reasons for clerical celibacy.  The practical are quite obvious.  The spiritual reasons are also important, but in this time of madness people find them harder to comprehend.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 09:16:45 AM »
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  • I asked that question to a priest prior to Vatican II, ( I am 72 years old), and he answered me;  "what happens when he wants a divorce?"
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 09:49:10 AM »
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  • Tele,

    When someone keeps saying "I know what the Church teaches, but I think xyz is better", and they close their post by telling someone (me) that I should go "learn much" (that they assume I haven't learned), that stinks of pride.

    Besides, the issue here is that we have already spent far too much time debating a topic which Holy Church has a clear teaching about. As I mentioned before, the case was settled long before any of us were born.

    Why aren't these same people who continually question Church teaching taking such a hard look at the invalidity of the NewMess and Newchurch 'installation' rites?

    Oh, because learning the truth about those things would cramp their modernist style. How sad.

    And we dare to wonder where all the saints have gone...
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 09:51:44 AM »
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  • It would be good to research this matter thoroughly, so as to help people like Clelia understand these matters better.

    Offline s2srea

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 10:08:02 AM »
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  • Thank you for the responses so far

    Quote from: JohnGrey
    Quote from: s2srea
    Is there a good apologetic reason / source for why not?

    I know and understand the reasons why, (no need to repeat them here, if you don't mind) I'm just looking for additional resources pointing expounding on this.

    Thank you!


    When you say apologetic, what do you mean?  Are you looking for papal pronouncements, the writings of Doctors or Fathers?  Basic logic?  What are you looking for?


    JG- would it be too much to ask for all of the above? :tinfoil:


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 10:09:06 AM »
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  • A man takes a wife and commits himself to her exclusively.

    A priest is consecrated to the Holy Church and is formed specifically for the offering of the Sacrifice of the Mass.  

    These are two distinct callings.

    Can a man be wholly consecrated to the priesthood when half his heart and all of his body be consecrated to her wife?  


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 10:20:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Clelia
    a married priest is not really an issue with me, but I am not in charge.

    I see no reason why not, with the exceptions of juggling family issues with parish responsibilities


    No, Clelia, I'm afraid you are wrong. The Bride of Christ was the Church, and the same applies to priests.

    If the Church has an issue with priests marrying, then you should as well.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline s2srea

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 10:28:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Can a man be wholly consecrated to the priesthood when half his heart and all of his body be consecrated to her wife?  



    In a certain sense, it is possible. Remember, marriages do exist among priests in the eastern rites, though I don't believe they are a majority; however, bishops are not able to be married, and one of the rites require them to be monks.

    Though this wasn't where I'd imagined the conversation going! My believe and preference is for unmarried priests as well. I was hoping to gain a better understanding of the Church's teaching in this regard for my own sake, and also to confront this issue with an uncle of my wife.

    Offline Clelia

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    Should priests be allowed to marry?
    « Reply #14 on: October 24, 2012, 10:49:34 AM »
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  • Thank you, gentlemen; Clelia understands that the married or celibate states of the priesthood is a Church discipline, and it can change. We may or may not like that - but it can. There are many married Popes in early Church History, too.

    Yet, is it prudent? Should they or have they been permitted to marry after becoming a priest? Are  married priests permitted to become Bishops and Popes? Were there married Popes in History?

    These are valid questions, and I believe the original Thread asked, SHOULD they marry --- that opens the answers to opinion, and as I stated, I respect what Mother Church dictates, even though I believe I am entitled to my opinion which does not conflict with Church Authority, and I do continue to respect Eastern and Western disciplines and laws as they currently stand.

    Rome has ceased to allow married priests and The Eastern Churches have not. Does that invalidate them? Does that make them wrong? No. It is a discipline.

    SHOULD they be allowed to marry in The Roman Rite?

    THAT is the question. Read the question, gentlemen, before you get your panties in a bunch.

    I mean that in the best possible way.

    Clelia understands. Me even make and use fire.  :heretic:
    Leaving the Boyz Club of little popes. SWAK.