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Author Topic: Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?  (Read 7158 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
« on: December 16, 2007, 03:19:04 PM »
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  • According to the wisdom of the Catholic Church, as well as Sacred Scripture, the answer is a resounding...

    NO!


    Read on...


    To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls. [...] Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates. St. Thomas Aquinas

    Do not work together with unbelievers, for what does justice have in common with injustice? II Corinthians 6:14

    Whoever is separated from the Church must be avoided and fled from; such a man is wrong-headed; he is a sinner and self-condemned. [...] But if some of the leaders of schism persist in their blind and obstinate foolishness, and if advice for their own good fails to bring them back to the way of salvation, let the rest of you [...] break away from their ensnaring falsehood. [...] One must withdraw from those who are engaged in sin; rather, one must fly from them, lest by joining in their evil course and thus taking the wrong road, one should [...] become involved in the same guilt oneself. St. Cyprian

     We have heard that many, saying they are Catholic, are living a life in common with Jєωs and pagans [...] in diverse errors, maintaining that they are not being harmed. [...] A great and deadly error! Pope Adrian I

     It is an illusion to seek the company of sinners on the pretence of reforming them or of converting them; it is far more to be feared that they will spread their poison to us. St. Gregory nαzιanzen

     For if they have doctrines opposed to ours, it is not fitting to be mixed up with them for this cause alone. [...] What do you say? "Their faith is the same; these men are orthodox"? Why, then, are they not with us? St. John Chysostom

    You help the ungodly, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord; and therefore you did indeed deserve the wrath of the Lord. II Paralipomenon 19:2

    The accursed perversity of heretics [...] has so increased that now they exercise their wickedness not in secret, but manifest their error publicly, and win over the weak and simple-minded to their opinion. For this reason, We resolve to cast them, their defenders, and their receivers under anathema, and We forbid under anathema that any one presume to help heretics or to do business with heretics. III Lateran Council

    Saints Peter and Paul, in their Epistles, have loathed heretics, and warned us to avoid them. St. Cyprian

    Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what concord does Christ have with Belial? Or what part do the faithful have with the unbeliever? [...] Wherefore, go out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord. II Corinthians 6:14-17

    I have always regarded the Church's enemies as my own. St. Jerome

    Separate yourself from your enemies. Ecclesiasticus 6:13

    John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and finding Cerinthus inside, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, shouting: "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, for Cerinthuis, an enemy of truth is inside!" And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion who met him on one occasion asking: "Do you know me?" "I do know you," replied Polycarp: "I know you to be the first-born of Satan!" Such was the horror which the Apostles and their disciples had against even holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of truth. St. Irenaeus of Lyons

    In respect to their guilt whereby they are opposed to God, all sinners are to be hated, even one's father or mother or kindred, according to Luke 14:26. For it is our duty to hate in the sinner his being a sinner. St. Thomas Aquinas

    If any man hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters [...] he cannot be My disciple. St. Luke 14:26

    If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house, nor say to him: "God speed you." For he who says to him "God speed you" communicates with his wicked works. II John 1:10-11

    When our friends fall into very great wickedness, and become incurable, we ought no longer to show them friendliness. It is for this reason that both divine and human laws command such sinners to be put to death, because there is a greater likelihood of their harming others than of their mending their ways. St. Thomas Aquinas

     If you will not return to the good path from which you have departed, we shall treat you as a stranger, and we shall separate from you; for it behooves us not to have any communication with one who has abandoned his God to please men and to secure for himself the perishable things of this life, which will cause him to perish everlastingly. St. James Intercisus

    If any man shall be friendly to those with whom the Roman Pontiff is not in communion, he is in complicity with those who want to destroy the Church of God; and, although he may seem to be with us in body, he is against us in mind and spirit, and is a much more dangerous enemy than those who are outside and are our avowed foes. Pope St. Clement I

    Let us hate those who are worthy of hatred. Let us withdraw from those from whom God withdraws. Let us say to God with all boldness concerning all heretics: "Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate Thee?" St. Cyril of Jerusalem

     Have I not hated them, O Lord, who hated Thee? [...] I have hated them with a perfect hatred, and they have become enemies to me. Psalm 138:21-22

    We are not faithful to God if we love His enemies. St. Thomas Aquinas

    He who can never love Christ enough will never give up fighting against those who hate him. St. John Chysostom


    The living God has charged me to declare unto you that He will punish those who will not avenge Him against His enemies. St. Bernard


    Joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord, you truly deserve the wrath of God! II Paralipomenon 19:2

    I pray God that some of us, as high as we seem to sit treading heretics under our feet like ants, that we live not to see the day we would gladly wish to be at league and composed with them, to let them have their churches quietly to themselves so that they would be content to let us have our quietly to ourselves. [...] Upon conditions that all heresies were suppressed, I would wish that all my books were burned up and all my labour utterly lost. St. Thomas More

    So great is my aversion for the company of heretics, or of conversation with them, that I say we ought not even go near them. St. Anthony the Abbot

    St. Anthony the Abbot would not speak to a heretic, except to exhort him to the true faith; and he drove all heretics from his mountain, calling them venomous serpents. St. Athanasius

    I was to either convert hypocrites to the way of salvation, or reject them and refrain from associating with them. St. Boniface

    I entreat you to shun, whenever possible, the society of those who profess false doctrines. St. John Eudes

    Therefore, he, who would not continue as one with the brethren, having followed heretics, goes forth as an antichrist. St. Optatus of Milevis

    Are heretics and schismatics excommunicated? Yes; they have no part in the Communion of the Saints. Catechism of the Summa

    But because you would not stay away from that wicked excommunicated person, you yourself shall die! St. Cedd of London

    Turn your thoughts away from a non-Catholic, turn away your ears, so that you may have strength to grasp life everlasting through the one, true and holy Catholic Church. Our Lord warns all the faithful: they must not put any faith in heretics or schismatics. St. Augustine

    Do not treat with a man without religion. [...] Give no heed to them in any matter of counsel. Ecclesiasticus 37:12,14


    Research Credit: Nomas
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    Offline JoanScholastica

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 05:54:26 AM »
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  • Offline Vandaler

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 06:55:49 AM »
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  • Chant,

    With your emphasis on not having outside contacts, not fitting in the world, looming threats all the time, and attempting to control what information is good and bad don't you find that you share a little to much characteristics with a cult.


    In fact, I'd like to know how you would argue that the above,  - which  describes rather accurately the essence of your posts - and cults are different.

    Offline Nomas

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 08:35:08 AM »
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  • Offline Vandaler

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 09:27:35 AM »
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  • Offline Nomas

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 09:37:57 AM »
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  • Offline Matthew

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 09:39:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: Vandaler
    Chant,

    With your emphasis on not having outside contacts, not fitting in the world, looming threats all the time, and attempting to control what information is good and bad don't you find that you share a little to much characteristics with a cult.


    In fact, I'd like to know how you would argue that the above,  - which  describes rather accurately the essence of your posts - and cults are different.


    I have outside contacts; plenty of them. But bringing them into the intimacy of friendship -- opening my heart to them, etc. is another matter. If I know the name of a clerk at the post office, that's call an acquaintance, not a friend.

    How can you be of one heart with someone whose heart is oriented in a different direction than yours?

    Anyhow, I have no idea what you mean about controlling information that is good and bad. I have a very open forum here, I'm not controlling anything!

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #7 on: December 17, 2007, 09:41:56 AM »
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    Offline Matthew

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #8 on: December 17, 2007, 09:44:12 AM »
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  • Bad logic:

    Vandaler is a man.
    Men can lift 25 pounds.
    Vandaler eats a lot of apples.

    OR, another example:

    Vandaler is a man.
    Some men can lift 400 pounds.
    Vandaler can lift 400 pounds.


    Bad premise:

    Vandaler is a woman.
    Women are meant to bear children.
    Vandaler is meant to bear children.


    See the difference?

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    Offline Matthew

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #9 on: December 17, 2007, 09:48:06 AM »
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  • And Vandaler, I can't help but point out that your newfangled, modern opinion about befriending non-Catholics is at complete variance with a lot of men MUCH, MUCH greater than you and I put together.

    What is it like to lightly cast aside the wisdom of such sources as

    The Holy Ghost
    St. Paul
    St. Thomas Aquinas
    St. John Crysostom
    etc.

    Really -- I can't imagine lightly disagreeing with such sources. I, personally, would be VERY worried that there was something wrong with my spiritual/mental education, if I was holding such errors deep in my heart.

    Matthew
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    Offline Vandaler

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #10 on: December 17, 2007, 10:45:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nomas


    Obviously if a Catholic doesn't know about them then they shouldn't talk about them other than to criticise them as false, inspired by the devil etc.



    I'll leave it gladly on that point of agreement with you.


    Offline Vandaler

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #11 on: December 17, 2007, 10:52:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    Quote from: Vandaler
    Chant,

    With your emphasis on not having outside contacts, not fitting in the world, looming threats all the time, and attempting to control what information is good and bad don't you find that you share a little to much characteristics with a cult.


    In fact, I'd like to know how you would argue that the above,  - which  describes rather accurately the essence of your posts - and cults are different.


    I have outside contacts; plenty of them. But bringing them into the intimacy of friendship -- opening my heart to them, etc. is another matter. If I know the name of a clerk at the post office, that's call an acquaintance, not a friend.

    How can you be of one heart with someone whose heart is oriented in a different direction than yours?

    Anyhow, I have no idea what you mean about controlling information that is good and bad. I have a very open forum here, I'm not controlling anything!

    Matthew


    Close friendship can be approached with caution if it hurts your faith, I agree with that much.

    On the information bit, well, you are free to disagree with I only can claim is an impression of mine. basically I meant your constant poisoning of the well of most normal information outlets to the favour of others that agree with you.

    Offline Vandaler

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 10:59:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd


    You could say the same thing about religion itself, vandaler.

    "What's the difference between the Catholic religion, and all other religions that claim to be true."

    "The Catholic one IS true."

    "But that doesn't differentiate them, because they ALSO claim to be true."

    See what I mean?


    I agree, from a logical standpoint the argument don't work because it's a faulty appeal to belief.

    ie: I and most of my peers holds this to be true, therefore it is.

    Offline Vandaler

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 11:03:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    Bad logic:

    Vandaler is a man.
    Men can lift 25 pounds.
    Vandaler eats a lot of apples.

    OR, another example:

    Vandaler is a man.
    Some men can lift 400 pounds.
    Vandaler can lift 400 pounds.


    Bad premise:

    Vandaler is a woman.
    Women are meant to bear children.
    Vandaler is meant to bear children.


    See the difference?



    Of course, but no such syllogism appeared in this discussion.  It all fails on the point that an appeal to belief is not an argument and it cannot ever be one.

    Offline Matthew

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    Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends?
    « Reply #14 on: December 17, 2007, 11:07:03 AM »
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  • You are an example of what a sad state the mainstream Catholic Church has fallen to.
    (I am making a reference here to the fact that you are not a Traditional Catholic -- which you yourself have admitted, several times, on public record)

    You're basically saying that we adhere to a fallacy, because we claim our Catholic Faith to be true "because our peers do."

    Sorry, we're not indulging in the fallacy of "appeal to belief", but rather our argument is "appeal to God's veracity" -- which is anything BUT a fallacy. God cannot deceive or be deceived, and it was HE that founded the Catholic Church that we believe.

    If you don't think that the Catholic Faith is above all other "religions" because it ALONE is true, then you, my man, have lost the Faith.

    I certainly hope that is not the case.

    Matthew
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