Author Topic: Should a Catholic have non-Catholic friends? (Read 7217 times)

Vandaler · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2007, 11:22:30 AM »

Quote from: ChantCd

You're basically saying that we adhere to a fallacy, because we claim our Catholic Faith to be true "because our peers do."

You severely misunderstood.

The Truth is the Truth, no matter how we argue it.

Making a faulty argument does not change what the Truth really is. Also, making a fallacious argument does not change whether what we are arguing for is true or not. It only means we have failed to discuss it in a logical manner.

Vandaler · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2007, 11:26:54 AM »

But all this is a red hearing, You already wrote that there is little wrong with cults or sects in the manner in which they live their faiths, and that was the wider point I was making.

I was referring to lifestyles and mindsets you seem to agree rather then distance yourself.

Vandaler · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2007, 12:08:56 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

And Vandaler, I can't help but point out that your newfangled, modern opinion about befriending non-Catholics is at complete variance with a lot of men MUCH, MUCH greater than you and I put together.

What is it like to lightly cast aside the wisdom of such sources as

The Holy Ghost
St. Paul
St. Thomas Aquinas
St. John Crysostom
etc.

Really -- I can't imagine lightly disagreeing with such sources. I, personally, would be VERY worried that there was something wrong with my spiritual/mental education, if I was holding such errors deep in my heart.

Matthew

I'm not holding dear to that point and of course I wouldn't put my authority in the balance with those you wrote. I simply treat everyone with equal dignity no matter their religion.

I also happen to be exposed to people of many other religions in part of my work and it happens they are not only of different religions, but also of different civilization. In this time where some argue we live a clash of civilizations, I have found my mild friendship with them invaluable in understanding some key issues.

This is stuff you just can't read up online or in a book. It's real life.

Incognito · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:30:34 AM »

Vandaler · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:55:04 AM »

Quote from: Incognito

I believe the Catholic Faith can be argued logically as far as that it is the one true Church. We trace its conception back to Jesus Christ, the Bible was printed and guarded by the Church for centuries, we can trace each and every pope of the Church back to Saint Peter. That is just a few of the logical arguments I can come up with off the top of my head.

The points above are related to the Church historicity. Yes of course that can be demonstrated empirically.
Where normal logical discourse fails is in demonstrating to someone the Authority of the Church, which requires a leap of Faith, not logic. But by all means, if you do find a logical argument that is concise, perfect, inattackable and without error in it's ability to bypass the Leap of Faith that the Catholic Church is the one true Church, By all means, share it. You will be the foremost Doctor of the Church that ever lived.

Quote

There is a huge difference between our One Holy Church and cults. Cults gain control of their members by brainwashing and mind control and are not permitted to leave said cult.

Agreed totally. I was referring to the particular mindset prevalent here, which in the limited capacity that a Internet Board can have, share many similarities with a cult. I have read very little complaints that this is not the case.

Quote

Vandaler, why do you believe we need to understand other religions as laypersons?

I already conceded that you don't need to if you are not to comment on them. I happen to believe strongly that the religious experience is something very human, and that therefore there is little that can be learn from reading. It's just a personal opinion, I would not argue this point as a fact.

Incognito · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2007, 11:51:01 PM »

Quote from: Vandaler

Quote from: Incognito
I believe the Catholic Faith can be argued logically as far as that it is the one true Church. We trace its conception back to Jesus Christ, the Bible was printed and guarded by the Church for centuries, we can trace each and every pope of the Church back to Saint Peter. That is just a few of the logical arguments I can come up with off the top of my head.

The points above are related to the Church historicity. Yes of course that can be demonstrated empirically.
Where normal logical discourse fails is in demonstrating to someone the Authority of the Church, which requires a leap of Faith, not logic. But by all means, if you do find a logical argument that is concise, perfect, inattackable and without error in it's ability to bypass the Leap of Faith that the Catholic Church is the one true Church, By all means, share it. You will be the foremost Doctor of the Church that ever lived.

No need to get haughty :-) It requires no more a leap of faith to believe the Church the One True Church than say a leap of faith to believe any historical account in the secular world. The difference is that most will believe anything written in a history book whereas when it comes to the Church, scepticism abounds.

It is surprising just how logical the Church Dogma is. Well, not so surprising if one has taken the leap of faith first. I neither have the time nor the intelligence to map it out here.

Quote from: Vandaler

Quote from: Incognito
There is a huge difference between our One Holy Church and cults. Cults gain control of their members by brainwashing and mind control and are not permitted to leave said cult.

Agreed totally. I was referring to the particular mindset prevalent here, which in the limited capacity that a Internet Board can have, share many similarities with a cult. I have read very little complaints that this is not the case.

I think perhaps the reason you receive no complaints other then from myself, has more to do with your attitude here than any truth to the comparison.

Quote from: Vandaler

Quote from: Incognito
Vandaler, why do you believe we need to understand other religions as laypersons?

I already conceded that you don't need to if you are not to comment on them. I happen to believe strongly that the religious experience is something very human, and that therefore there is little that can be learn from reading. It's just a personal opinion, I would not argue this point as a fact.

You may have conceded that it is not necessary, but you have implied that to not have friends outside of one`s religion is akin to a cult. I say not only is it not necessary, it could be a danger to one`s faith. When one is friends with someone outside their faith, situations are bound to arise where you will not speak the truth about your religion for the sake of the friend`s feelings. I have caught myself doing just this with some who are Catholic, only the Novus Ordo variety.

I am not fighting with you btw, just have a logical discussion. :-)

Mousey · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2007, 08:27:01 AM »

+

I believe Incog is saying (if at least in part) that the true faith is not merely an act of empirical reference or blind faith, but a gift of faith from Truth itself (or more accurately, Himself). It isn't our job to understand other religions that are purely man made. See, God doesn't lie --- it's the devil that says things that are lies, and he often gives you things that are mostly good but then the whole is poisoned with a small percentage of falsity --- just enough to make the dish palatable and the poison (eternally) fatal. Man-made religions are based on people's experiences, as Van pointed out. But, who's to keep people from having experiences? lol! As many different experiences there are different beliefs. This is why there are nowadays so many dead members within the Church --- because they believe this false philosophy that religion should be based upon experience. By this, they are then confused by heresies which say that Dogma can change, or more popularly, that our understanding of Dogma can change -- neither which is true. God gave us everything we need to know for our salvation, and He's not going to change His mind. He's God, and "He fits the job description".*

*last comment alla my chaplain

People need to know there own faith better, and they need to guard it by natural means and more over, by means of employing grace, itself. In other words, we all need to constantly fight spiritual sloth to any and every degree, and not take the grace of faith for granted. God doesn't owe us ANYTHING. Why should He give us more graces of knowledge and understanding while we waste what grace He's already given us? He's already come down to our level to the point of coming to earth as a baby (remember that holy day we celebrate in another week?)

It's a person's own pride that makdes him (or her) decide that they should learn things on their own terms, because they are sooo smart. St. Teresa of Avila herself said that she learned, by far, more from just being in front of our Lord's True Presence, than she did from any theology books.

We need to continue to ask for it EVERY DAY, and at every Communion: "Lord I believe, help my unbelief." and/or "Lord, increase my faith" --after making frequent acts of faith. Also, the Blessed Mother will help here tremendously. It seems, even, that she quickly reminds a soul that recommends himself (even renewed each day) by simple acts and gifts of service (even in ordinary tasks) that she will hardly ever be outdone in generosity. It's the quickest way to get a significant increase in faith. Try giving an entire day to her, trying to be perfect for Christ as much as you can in your small, even private activities as a devotion and plea for her intercession and see what happens at the end of the day. lol

Matthew · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2007, 09:59:55 AM »

Being charitable to all, and getting along with all, is a different story.

But we should only be "intimate friends", as in opening up one's heart and soul, to those who are part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

Let's face it -- non-Catholics can never be THAT close to us. They can't understand the beauty of the Mass, receive communion with us, or understand our Faith which defines who we are. They see the world differently than us -- how close can two people be who see the world in a completely different light?

Think of it this way -- if you open up and confide in a non-Catholic -- let him into our soul, as it were -- then what if he turns our soul a different direction? As in, AWAY from a Catholic point of view? It isn't too hard to imagine, because after all the non-Catholic friend lives and breathes a non-Catholic point of view every day!

Matthew

Incognito · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2007, 01:17:14 AM »

I do not think anyone implied that we should shun any and all acquaintances who are not Catholic that we meet and deal with in life. I have lots of acquaintances whom I deal with often who are not Catholic. I have found that our values are worlds apart. It is just so hard to explain, even among some fellow Trads, I feel this chasm between us. Not that I think I am better than anyone else, it`s just that I`ve changed to the core of my being. It is totally foreign to me as well, I used to be like them, and now I`m not. I just cannot explain it properly.

Vandaler · « **Reply #24 on:** December 22, 2007, 10:16:50 AM »

Quote from: Incognito

You may have conceded that it is not necessary, but you have implied that to not have friends outside of one`s religion is akin to a cult.

That was not my intention even though it may have seemed that way. In fact, the discussion about inter-faith friendship as been pretty balanced and reasonable.

My challenge was an overall appraisal and it's coincidental if I happen to express it in this thread.

Mousey · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2007, 01:22:31 PM »

It is very odd that it would be such common practice (as demonstrated in this thread) that people debate on an issue/question without defining first the terms being employed.

:scratchchin:
First of all, what do we agree we mean in using the word "friends"??????

People often use the word "friends" to refer to others who they hardly speak with at all. The same people can also use the word to mean those of whom they have close contact and a mutual regard and trust, and perhaps they can even depend upon them to a degree. --- Even that needs to be defined. But first, we must have at least a common, general definition of what we mean when we say "friends". To what end should having these friends (in this definition) serve? That will help us gain some ground in defining our main term here, "friends".

Quote

I happen to believe strongly that the religious experience is something very human, and that therefore there is little that can be learn from reading. It's just a personal opinion, I would not argue this point as a fact.

That is true, experience is very human... but there is a book that is not from a human origin, eventhough it relays stories in human history (the Bible). But then again, it is the Church, his Church (in her Authority... excluding false teachers and their false doctrines) that teaches us it's meaning.

God gives us actual grace to draw us to the one True Faith. Just as not everyone is at the same intellectual level, not everyone is at the same level of grace, and not everyone is exposed to the same awareness of Catholic teaching and tradition. God will supply the grace to get people to Sanctifying Grace. We who have the Truth and are in the Church have a responsibility to honor our supernatural gifts of faith, hope and charity by first honoring God by leading a good life according to His commandments, by daily prayer and working on growing in virtue and by this means pleasing Him. From this God plants within us the desire to make Him Known, and since God is revealed without any falsity in the teachings of His one, true Church, we should desire to do what we can to expose those we enounter (the best we can according to given situations) to His True Church.

But it must begin with our own interior lives, otherwise, the best intent is not pure, and even with any amount of education it will not carry with it the grace and perfect Will of God. We must be willing first to suffer because we love Him who suffered so much for us. Out of this love comes authentic witnessing to others who are not exposed to the true teachings of the Lord which are only fully within the Catholic Church --- his Church.

As for those we never meet, and perhaps never meet a single Christian (which is very hard to believe in this day and age... perhaps if they are in a tribe of some sort in the rainforest)... they will receive actual grace. If they live according to God's actual grace they will be disposed to the Truth, if they do not, they suffer the same consequences of sin as anyone else, as grace is a gift of God himself. If they are living in grace, God will bring them missionaries to lead them to the Church. I totally believe this and could give you examples ... amazing examples of how God manifests Himself in the human modality, and more so to the heart that seeks him humbly.

That being said, it irks me to learn of people who want to evanglize and bring people to the Church when they themselves cannot stay out of habitual (even) mortal sin! I've actually had someone tell me that I didn't know Christ until I joined a Cursillo... and another time he shared that he didn't have remorse or firm purpose of ammendment when he confesses his mortal sins! You cannot impart what you do not have! Christ does not remain in a person who is spiritual dead through mortal sin. Our Lord said, "He who says he loves me yet fails to keep my commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." Christ is the Truth. So, yes, it is true that the supernatural faith is not gained merely by teaching the Word of Christ and the teachings of His Church, as it must be both given and received by grace.

Vandaler · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2007, 03:46:03 PM »

Good post Mousey.

Quote from: Mousey

It is very odd that it would be such common practice (as demonstrated in this thread) that people debate on an issue/question without defining first the terms being employed.

:scratchchin:
First of all, what do we agree we mean in using the word "friends"??????

Indeed, that is one of the many problems you will find on all Internet board. It's to bad since the slow pace of conversation should allow the elimination of such problems but there is a certain laziness that seem to trump everything. It's been discussed in another thread that more rigid standards should be applied but that is not for everyone.

Vladimir · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:35:27 AM »

Quote from: ChantCd

According to the wisdom of the Catholic Church, as well as Sacred Scripture, the answer is a resounding...

NO!

Read on...

To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls. [...] Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates. St. Thomas Aquinas

Do not work together with unbelievers, for what does justice have in common with injustice? II Corinthians 6:14

Whoever is separated from the Church must be avoided and fled from; such a man is wrong-headed; he is a sinner and self-condemned. [...] But if some of the leaders of schism persist in their blind and obstinate foolishness, and if advice for their own good fails to bring them back to the way of salvation, let the rest of you [...] break away from their ensnaring falsehood. [...] One must withdraw from those who are engaged in sin; rather, one must fly from them, lest by joining in their evil course and thus taking the wrong road, one should [...] become involved in the same guilt oneself. St. Cyprian

We have heard that many, saying they are Catholic, are living a life in common with Jєωs and pagans [...] in diverse errors, maintaining that they are not being harmed. [...] A great and deadly error! Pope Adrian I

It is an illusion to seek the company of sinners on the pretence of reforming them or of converting them; it is far more to be feared that they will spread their poison to us. St. Gregory nαzιanzen

For if they have doctrines opposed to ours, it is not fitting to be mixed up with them for this cause alone. [...] What do you say? "Their faith is the same; these men are orthodox"? Why, then, are they not with us? St. John Chysostom

You help the ungodly, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord; and therefore you did indeed deserve the wrath of the Lord. II Paralipomenon 19:2

The accursed perversity of heretics [...] has so increased that now they exercise their wickedness not in secret, but manifest their error publicly, and win over the weak and simple-minded to their opinion. For this reason, We resolve to cast them, their defenders, and their receivers under anathema, and We forbid under anathema that any one presume to help heretics or to do business with heretics. III Lateran Council

Saints Peter and Paul, in their Epistles, have loathed heretics, and warned us to avoid them. St. Cyprian

Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what concord does Christ have with Belial? Or what part do the faithful have with the unbeliever? [...] Wherefore, go out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord. II Corinthians 6:14-17

I have always regarded the Church's enemies as my own. St. Jerome

Separate yourself from your enemies. Ecclesiasticus 6:13

John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and finding Cerinthus inside, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, shouting: "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, for Cerinthuis, an enemy of truth is inside!" And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion who met him on one occasion asking: "Do you know me?" "I do know you," replied Polycarp: "I know you to be the first-born of Satan!" Such was the horror which the Apostles and their disciples had against even holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of truth. St. Irenaeus of Lyons

In respect to their guilt whereby they are opposed to God, all sinners are to be hated, even one's father or mother or kindred, according to Luke 14:26. For it is our duty to hate in the sinner his being a sinner. St. Thomas Aquinas

If any man hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters [...] he cannot be My disciple. St. Luke 14:26

If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house, nor say to him: "God speed you." For he who says to him "God speed you" communicates with his wicked works. II John 1:10-11

When our friends fall into very great wickedness, and become incurable, we ought no longer to show them friendliness. It is for this reason that both divine and human laws command such sinners to be put to death, because there is a greater likelihood of their harming others than of their mending their ways. St. Thomas Aquinas

If you will not return to the good path from which you have departed, we shall treat you as a stranger, and we shall separate from you; for it behooves us not to have any communication with one who has abandoned his God to please men and to secure for himself the perishable things of this life, which will cause him to perish everlastingly. St. James Intercisus

If any man shall be friendly to those with whom the Roman Pontiff is not in communion, he is in complicity with those who want to destroy the Church of God; and, although he may seem to be with us in body, he is against us in mind and spirit, and is a much more dangerous enemy than those who are outside and are our avowed foes. Pope St. Clement I

Let us hate those who are worthy of hatred. Let us withdraw from those from whom God withdraws. Let us say to God with all boldness concerning all heretics: "Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate Thee?" St. Cyril of Jerusalem

Have I not hated them, O Lord, who hated Thee? [...] I have hated them with a perfect hatred, and they have become enemies to me. Psalm 138:21-22

We are not faithful to God if we love His enemies. St. Thomas Aquinas

He who can never love Christ enough will never give up fighting against those who hate him. St. John Chysostom

The living God has charged me to declare unto you that He will punish those who will not avenge Him against His enemies. St. Bernard

Joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord, you truly deserve the wrath of God! II Paralipomenon 19:2

I pray God that some of us, as high as we seem to sit treading heretics under our feet like ants, that we live not to see the day we would gladly wish to be at league and composed with them, to let them have their churches quietly to themselves so that they would be content to let us have our quietly to ourselves. [...] Upon conditions that all heresies were suppressed, I would wish that all my books were burned up and all my labour utterly lost. St. Thomas More

So great is my aversion for the company of heretics, or of conversation with them, that I say we ought not even go near them. St. Anthony the Abbot

St. Anthony the Abbot would not speak to a heretic, except to exhort him to the true faith; and he drove all heretics from his mountain, calling them venomous serpents. St. Athanasius

I was to either convert hypocrites to the way of salvation, or reject them and refrain from associating with them. St. Boniface

I entreat you to shun, whenever possible, the society of those who profess false doctrines. St. John Eudes

Therefore, he, who would not continue as one with the brethren, having followed heretics, goes forth as an antichrist. St. Optatus of Milevis

Are heretics and schismatics excommunicated? Yes; they have no part in the Communion of the Saints. Catechism of the Summa

But because you would not stay away from that wicked excommunicated person, you yourself shall die! St. Cedd of London

Turn your thoughts away from a non-Catholic, turn away your ears, so that you may have strength to grasp life everlasting through the one, true and holy Catholic Church. Our Lord warns all the faithful: they must not put any faith in heretics or schismatics. St. Augustine

Do not treat with a man without religion. [...] Give no heed to them in any matter of counsel. Ecclesiasticus 37:12,14

Research Credit: Nomas

bump

s2srea · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:50:23 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Quote from: ChantCd
According to the wisdom of the Catholic Church, as well as Sacred Scripture, the answer is a resounding...

NO!

Read on...

To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls. [...] Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates. St. Thomas Aquinas

Do not work together with unbelievers, for what does justice have in common with injustice? II Corinthians 6:14

Whoever is separated from the Church must be avoided and fled from; such a man is wrong-headed; he is a sinner and self-condemned. [...] But if some of the leaders of schism persist in their blind and obstinate foolishness, and if advice for their own good fails to bring them back to the way of salvation, let the rest of you [...] break away from their ensnaring falsehood. [...] One must withdraw from those who are engaged in sin; rather, one must fly from them, lest by joining in their evil course and thus taking the wrong road, one should [...] become involved in the same guilt oneself. St. Cyprian

We have heard that many, saying they are Catholic, are living a life in common with Jєωs and pagans [...] in diverse errors, maintaining that they are not being harmed. [...] A great and deadly error! Pope Adrian I

It is an illusion to seek the company of sinners on the pretence of reforming them or of converting them; it is far more to be feared that they will spread their poison to us. St. Gregory nαzιanzen

For if they have doctrines opposed to ours, it is not fitting to be mixed up with them for this cause alone. [...] What do you say? "Their faith is the same; these men are orthodox"? Why, then, are they not with us? St. John Chysostom

You help the ungodly, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord; and therefore you did indeed deserve the wrath of the Lord. II Paralipomenon 19:2

The accursed perversity of heretics [...] has so increased that now they exercise their wickedness not in secret, but manifest their error publicly, and win over the weak and simple-minded to their opinion. For this reason, We resolve to cast them, their defenders, and their receivers under anathema, and We forbid under anathema that any one presume to help heretics or to do business with heretics. III Lateran Council

Saints Peter and Paul, in their Epistles, have loathed heretics, and warned us to avoid them. St. Cyprian

Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what concord does Christ have with Belial? Or what part do the faithful have with the unbeliever? [...] Wherefore, go out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord. II Corinthians 6:14-17

I have always regarded the Church's enemies as my own. St. Jerome

Separate yourself from your enemies. Ecclesiasticus 6:13

John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and finding Cerinthus inside, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, shouting: "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, for Cerinthuis, an enemy of truth is inside!" And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion who met him on one occasion asking: "Do you know me?" "I do know you," replied Polycarp: "I know you to be the first-born of Satan!" Such was the horror which the Apostles and their disciples had against even holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of truth. St. Irenaeus of Lyons

In respect to their guilt whereby they are opposed to God, all sinners are to be hated, even one's father or mother or kindred, according to Luke 14:26. For it is our duty to hate in the sinner his being a sinner. St. Thomas Aquinas

If any man hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters [...] he cannot be My disciple. St. Luke 14:26

If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house, nor say to him: "God speed you." For he who says to him "God speed you" communicates with his wicked works. II John 1:10-11

When our friends fall into very great wickedness, and become incurable, we ought no longer to show them friendliness. It is for this reason that both divine and human laws command such sinners to be put to death, because there is a greater likelihood of their harming others than of their mending their ways. St. Thomas Aquinas

If you will not return to the good path from which you have departed, we shall treat you as a stranger, and we shall separate from you; for it behooves us not to have any communication with one who has abandoned his God to please men and to secure for himself the perishable things of this life, which will cause him to perish everlastingly. St. James Intercisus

If any man shall be friendly to those with whom the Roman Pontiff is not in communion, he is in complicity with those who want to destroy the Church of God; and, although he may seem to be with us in body, he is against us in mind and spirit, and is a much more dangerous enemy than those who are outside and are our avowed foes. Pope St. Clement I

Let us hate those who are worthy of hatred. Let us withdraw from those from whom God withdraws. Let us say to God with all boldness concerning all heretics: "Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate Thee?" St. Cyril of Jerusalem

Have I not hated them, O Lord, who hated Thee? [...] I have hated them with a perfect hatred, and they have become enemies to me. Psalm 138:21-22

We are not faithful to God if we love His enemies. St. Thomas Aquinas

He who can never love Christ enough will never give up fighting against those who hate him. St. John Chysostom

The living God has charged me to declare unto you that He will punish those who will not avenge Him against His enemies. St. Bernard

Joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord, you truly deserve the wrath of God! II Paralipomenon 19:2

I pray God that some of us, as high as we seem to sit treading heretics under our feet like ants, that we live not to see the day we would gladly wish to be at league and composed with them, to let them have their churches quietly to themselves so that they would be content to let us have our quietly to ourselves. [...] Upon conditions that all heresies were suppressed, I would wish that all my books were burned up and all my labour utterly lost. St. Thomas More

So great is my aversion for the company of heretics, or of conversation with them, that I say we ought not even go near them. St. Anthony the Abbot

St. Anthony the Abbot would not speak to a heretic, except to exhort him to the true faith; and he drove all heretics from his mountain, calling them venomous serpents. St. Athanasius

I was to either convert hypocrites to the way of salvation, or reject them and refrain from associating with them. St. Boniface

I entreat you to shun, whenever possible, the society of those who profess false doctrines. St. John Eudes

Therefore, he, who would not continue as one with the brethren, having followed heretics, goes forth as an antichrist. St. Optatus of Milevis

Are heretics and schismatics excommunicated? Yes; they have no part in the Communion of the Saints. Catechism of the Summa

But because you would not stay away from that wicked excommunicated person, you yourself shall die! St. Cedd of London

Turn your thoughts away from a non-Catholic, turn away your ears, so that you may have strength to grasp life everlasting through the one, true and holy Catholic Church. Our Lord warns all the faithful: they must not put any faith in heretics or schismatics. St. Augustine

Do not treat with a man without religion. [...] Give no heed to them in any matter of counsel. Ecclesiasticus 37:12,14

Research Credit: Nomas

bump

Bump bump
I wish more trads lived closer to me :/ I only get to see them on Sunday. But, hey- that's what Cathinfo's for right?!

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2012, 06:05:02 PM »

Generally speaking, no.

Circuмstances provide for exceptions, however.