Author Topic: Sedevacantism in (Italy and in) the U.S. (Read 3136 times)

Gabriele · « **on:** September 14, 2011, 07:08:08 PM »

Dear friends,
I’d like to know how many types of sedevacantists there are in the U.S. and how many there are than globally. I know that the number does not matter. It's just to get an idea. I can tell you what is, in this respect, the situation in Italy. Here there are not “total” sedevacantists or sedevacantists “tout court” except three or four people. There is only a sedevacantist (rectius “sedeprivationist”) Institute (with seminar) that follows the teological thesis of Fr. Guerard Des Lauriers. This Institute, with about ten priests, has 16 centers of Mass (“non una cuм”) throughout Italy. The number of faithfuls who gravitate around the Institute, in Italy, is about 5-600, I think (on a population of about 60 million inhabitants). His magazine (Sodalitium) is distributed, in Italy, at about 4-5000 people. Finally, there is a priest expelled from the SSPX in 2009, Rev. Abrahamowicz, celebrating the Mass “non una cuм” near Venice. The faithfuls attached to the SSPX in Italy are a few thousand (2-3000?), I think.
What’s the situation in the U.S.?
Cordially

PS: I already know these realities of the U.S.:
- Congregatio Mariae Reginae Immaculatae - http://www.cmri.org/ http://www.cmri.org/theolog.htm
- Society of Saint Pius V - http://www.sspv.org/ (now Congregation of St. Pius V - http://www.congregationofstpiusv.org/)
- http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/
- http://www.traditionalmass.org/locations/
I wonder: how many priests and how many sedevacantists faithfuls (including sedeprivationists) there are about in U.S.?

roscoe · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2011, 09:47:09 PM »

There is no such thing as a 'sede vacantist'.

ora pro me · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2011, 10:10:23 PM »

Gabriele,
If you can't figure out Roscoe's meaning in the above post, don't worry. I don't think anyone knows what he means by that. He's said that many times and I'm still scratching my head.

I don't know the answer to your question and I hope a sedevacantist will help you with an answer, but you might have better luck posting your question in the "Crisis in the Church" section since a lot of the sede topics go there. Best wishes.

Gregory I · « **Reply #3 on:** September 15, 2011, 07:40:34 PM »

Roscoe, can you point to any church teaching or theologians that explicitly teach or indicate that the indefectability of the Catholic church as a whole applies in a specific and particular way to the Church of Rome?

I am pretty sure that is what you mean. I say I am "sedevacantist" but what I really mean by that is that none of the last 5 "popes" are anything of the sort. I do not think it is terribly important to focus on what I cannot know (the existence of an underground, licit and valid Roman Hierarchy), only what I am presented with. From all APPEARANCES it SEEMS plain that the Holy See is vacant. Or at the very minimum, the past 5 "popes" are anti-popes. But how can I say that the city and clergy of Rome have not defected from the faith when there is nothing else to indicate the contrary; the Siri thesis not withstanding?

roscoe · « **Reply #4 on:** September 15, 2011, 08:38:13 PM »

Can someone else give an interpretation of the above because I do not comprende.

If we are in the end times, then I guess it is poss that the Holy See is vacant. Either way, I believe Pope Gregory to be legally elected and true Pope until 1989. After that, I suspect the Pintonello election to be real but am not aware of any name he may have taken.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2011, 11:47:19 PM »

If I wanted to marry a beautiful italian young woman who happens to be a sedevacantist, what Italian city should I go to????

yes this is a real question. Please PM me if you are familiar with italian sedevacantism.

Gabriele · « **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2011, 03:43:45 AM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

If I wanted to marry a beautiful italian young woman who happens to be a sedevacantist, what Italian city should I go to????

yes this is a real question. Please PM me if you are familiar with italian sedevacantism.

Hi couriouscatholic23! You have a PM. :)

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2011, 03:59:49 AM »

Quote from: Gabriele

Quote from: curiouscatholic23
If I wanted to marry a beautiful italian young woman who happens to be a sedevacantist, what Italian city should I go to????

yes this is a real question. Please PM me if you are familiar with italian sedevacantism.

Hi couriouscatholic23! You have a PM. :)

Let me know too. If curiouscatholic already snagged you up, do you have any like-minded sisters?

Gabriele · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2011, 04:09:49 AM »

Quote from: PartyIsOver221

Let me know too. If curiouscatholic already snagged you up, do you have any like-minded sisters?

No, I have not. It's so difficult to find simply a catholic womand today!... To find a sedevacantist (beautiful) woman it's almost impossible...

I joke, but I can not answer your questions...

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2011, 04:16:18 AM »

Quote from: Gabriele

Quote from: PartyIsOver221
Let me know too. If curiouscatholic already snagged you up, do you have any like-minded sisters?

No, I have not. It's so difficult to find simply a catholic womand today!... To find a sedevacantist (beautiful) woman it's almost impossible...

Yes that is what I was thinking too.. In the US, its nearly impossible to find. I thought I had a potential spouse, but things blew up in the end. Being a single sede is rough! More so for women I bet.

God's will is an amazing thing...seeing it happen right in front of my eyes.

Anyways, back on point..yes all those groups you listed in the original post are great places to attend a Mass here in the states. I've been to the CMRI and SSPV and its definitely Jesus in the Eucharist there. The CMRI was my favorite though, and I look forward to going back some day... just a little far from where I am now.

Ethelred · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2011, 08:42:49 AM »

Quote from: Gabriele

Finally, there is a priest expelled from the SSPX in 2009, Rev. Abrahamowicz, celebrating the Mass “non una cuм” near Venice. The faithfuls attached to the SSPX in Italy are a few thousand (2-3000?), I think.

Whilst I don't know the answer to your general question, I wanted to say that I'm delighted you mentioned the brave Fr Abrahamowicz.

This good Austrian-German priest, who in former times was in the eastern part of the Austrian SSPX district and more liberal than today, became such an anti-liberal and faithful supporter of our Archbishop Lefebvre and the Church.
Today he runs the chapel named "Domus Marcel Lefebvre" (=Marcel Lefebvre House) in the former kingdom of Lombardy–Venetia which was part of the Austrian Empire when our patron Sanct Pius X. was born.

We were very impressed when Fr Abrahamowicz as one of the few (or only?) European SSPX priests publicly defended our good Bishop Williamson in 2009 for several times, who has been attacked by the vile media and the SSPX superiors. Shortly after that the brave Fr Abrahamowicz got expelled. :-(
The SSPX "lost" another very good priest this way. It's not the first and not the last one. Another Austrian-German SSPX priest once told me: "Unfortunately the most intelligent SSPX priests left the SSPX." Then with a smile he added: "... fortunately I'm not so intelligent." ;-)

Oh, and I loved Fr Abrahamowicz' public burning of the Vatican II docuмents in the form of Rahner's "Konzilskompendium". There's a nice video on the Internet: http://www.gloria.tv/?media=59823

Anyway, thanks Gabriele for your list. With every holy mass I include Fr Abrahamowicz in my prayers.

God bless Fr Abrahamowicz and all the other remaining faithful priests and bishops!

Gabriele · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2011, 09:50:53 AM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Whilst I don't know the answer to your general question, I wanted to say that I'm delighted you mentioned the brave Fr Abrahamowicz.

This good Austrian-German priest, who in former times was in the eastern part of the Austrian SSPX district and more liberal than today, became such an anti-liberal and faithful supporter of our Archbishop Lefebvre and the Church.
Today he runs the chapel named "Domus Marcel Lefebvre" (=Marcel Lefebvre House) in the former kingdom of Lombardy–Venetia which was part of the Austrian Empire when our patron Sanct Pius X. was born.

We were very impressed when Fr Abrahamowicz as one of the few (or only?) European SSPX priests publicly defended our good Bishop Williamson in 2009 for several times, who has been attacked by the vile media and the SSPX superiors. Shortly after that the brave Fr Abrahamowicz got expelled. :-(
The SSPX "lost" another very good priest this way. It's not the first and not the last one. Another Austrian-German SSPX priest once told me: "Unfortunately the most intelligent SSPX priests left the SSPX." Then with a smile he added: "... fortunately I'm not so intelligent." ;-)

Oh, and I loved Fr Abrahamowicz' public burning of the Vatican II docuмents in the form of Rahner's "Konzilskompendium". There's a nice video on the Internet: http://www.gloria.tv/?media=59823

Anyway, thanks Gabriele for your list. With every holy mass I include Fr Abrahamowicz in my prayers.

God bless Fr Abrahamowicz and all the other remaining faithful priests and bishops!

Thank you for your post, Ethelred!
Fr. Abrahamowicz is really smart (and brave, as you said)! A very good priest!
The site of "Domus Marcel Lefebvre" is: http://www.domusmarcellefebvre.it/index.html. While some faithfuls of Fr. Abrahamowicz have created the cultural circle "Christus Rex": http://www.agerecontra.it/. The friendship between Fr. Abrahamowicz and the priests of Mater Boni Consilii Institute is getting stronger.

Gabriele · « **Reply #12 on:** September 16, 2011, 09:58:07 AM »

Quote from: PartyIsOver221

Anyways, back on point..yes all those groups you listed in the original post are great places to attend a Mass here in the states. I've been to the CMRI and SSPV and its definitely Jesus in the Eucharist there. The CMRI was my favorite though, and I look forward to going back some day... just a little far from where I am now.

I understand. Thank you PartyIsOver221. :)

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #13 on:** September 16, 2011, 10:07:46 AM »

Certainly, Fr. Abrahamowicz is one of the most amazing priests I ever met.

How much is he connected to the IMBC now? Does he say Mass in their chapels, too?

Gabriele · « **Reply #14 on:** September 16, 2011, 10:34:45 AM »

Quote from: Pyrrhos

Certainly, Fr. Abrahamowicz is one of the most amazing priests I ever met.

How much is he connected to the IMBC now? Does he say Mass in their chapels, too?

No, he doesn't say Mass in their chapels, but there is a mutual respect between Fr. A brahamowicz and the IMBC's priests. Last year Fr. Abrahamowicz was present at the most important annual conference of IMBC. And recently I knew that he says Mass not in communion with Benedict XVI.