Author Topic: Books about the Knights Templar  (Read 3990 times)

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Offline AnonymousCatholic

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Books about the Knights Templar
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2016, 09:04:35 PM »
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  • This is everything I could find relating to the Bulls about the KT and letters concerning them. I also have first hand accounts of the crusades if anyone's is interested but i will refrain posting them until requested, to prevent the thread from being too cluttered.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #46 on: February 01, 2016, 09:55:33 PM »
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  • Thanks for posting-- where did you get these?  :confused1:

    BTW-- I have been attempting to discuss KT's in the Forum for quite some time. It seems that until now everyone has been terrified of the subject.

    I'll respond more after reading.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #47 on: February 02, 2016, 03:45:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Thanks for posting-- where did you get these?  :confused1:

    BTW-- I have been attempting to discuss KT's in the Forum for quite some time. It seems that until now everyone has been terrified of the subject.

    I'll respond more after reading.



    I found these of of a Portuguese site that was about the KT. Thus the reason for the odd Spanish word here and there. It's funny, on the site they were complaining that they could only find English translations of the Bulls.

    Here's the link: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.oocities.org/templosalomao/docum.htm&prev=search


    Just click one of the links at this site and it'll take you to the document.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #48 on: February 03, 2016, 11:20:32 AM »
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  • On the matter regarding Papal Bulls and their infallibility I decided it best to just ask a priest. The priest I asked is a part of a Traditional Catholic parish that is still in a diocese. He said "Papal Infallibility does not apply to Papal Bulls because Papal Bulls are legal documents dealing with human law. Furthermore whenever a topic is under the umbrella of Papal Infallibility it is declared within the topic so that there is no question whatsoever."

    So there you have it. Papal Bulls are fallible and even though the ones regarding the KT were never rescinded it doesn't mean they still cant be. That is the beautiful thing about the Catholic Church. No matter how much time has passed the topic is always up for debate (dogma and topics protected by infallibility excluded). So long as there is evidence to support your claims you can debate it.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #49 on: February 03, 2016, 08:17:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: AnonymousCatholic
    On the matter regarding Papal Bulls and their infallibility I decided it best to just ask a priest. The priest I asked is a part of a Traditional Catholic parish that is still in a diocese. He said "Papal Infallibility does not apply to Papal Bulls because Papal Bulls are legal documents dealing with human law. Furthermore whenever a topic is under the umbrella of Papal Infallibility it is declared within the topic so that there is no question whatsoever."

    So there you have it.  


    You mean YOU have it. An Anonymous Catholic quoting an anonymous priest.  :roll-laugh1:


    My understanding of Papal Infallibility is

    1--- Church Council with Placet of the Pope

    2--- Papal Bull

    3--- Papal Encyclical

     :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #50 on: February 03, 2016, 08:37:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: AnonymousCatholic
    On the matter regarding Papal Bulls and their infallibility I decided it best to just ask a priest. The priest I asked is a part of a Traditional Catholic parish that is still in a diocese. He said "Papal Infallibility does not apply to Papal Bulls because Papal Bulls are legal documents dealing with human law. Furthermore whenever a topic is under the umbrella of Papal Infallibility it is declared within the topic so that there is no question whatsoever."

    So there you have it.  


    You mean YOU have it. An Anonymous Catholic quoting an anonymous priest.  :roll-laugh1:


    My understanding of Papal Infallibility is

    1--- Church Council with Placet of the Pope

    2--- Papal Bull

    3--- Papal Encyclical

     :fryingpan:


    Why would I use someones name without their consent? That's a tad bit rude wouldn't you think? Also I see you put your understanding. Now the question is do we take roscoe's word for it or the word of a Traditional Catholic priest in the Archdiocese of Detroit? :scratchchin:
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #51 on: February 04, 2016, 10:28:49 AM »
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  • I would suggest reading Fr Cuthbert- Butler's History of The Vatican Council for an understanding of Papal Infallibility.  :ready-to-eat:

    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #52 on: February 04, 2016, 04:59:36 PM »
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  • After having read only the first of the above Bulls, the idea that there is nothing in them referring to Faith & Morals is as absurd as can be imagined. Every page REEKS of heresy, blasphemy and other things the Pope cannot bring himself to even describe specifically.

    So far the Pope is full of praise for Philip. Among other comments, the King is described as Not being motivated by greed.

    I cannot thank AC enough for posting these documents.

    I hope the Forum is printing out copies of these Bulls before they are removed from the net.  :ready-to-eat:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #53 on: February 05, 2016, 12:16:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    After having read only the first of the above Bulls, the idea that there is nothing in them referring to Faith & Morals is as absurd as can be imagined. Every page REEKS of heresy, blasphemy and other things the Pope cannot bring himself to even describe specifically.

    So far the Pope is full of praise for Philip. Among other comments, the King is described as Not being motivated by greed.

    I cannot thank AC enough for posting these documents.

    I hope the Forum is printing out copies of these Bulls before they are removed from the net.  :ready-to-eat:



    In these documents they neither discuss or define any specific moral or dogma. Rather the documents specifically discuss they guiltiness of the Templars or the distribution of the Templars property in order to recover the recently lost Holy Land.


    Papal Infallibility only applies when teaching about specific morals or dogma. Not to mention one of the documents speaks about having doubts about the circumstances upon which the confessions were obtained.

    If there is anything a pope may speak fallibly about, it's his personal view of a human being. While I don't see any evidence towards Phillip conspired with the Pope at the time of his election, I do see evidence towards Phillip having Clement elected for his rather mellow personality. Many descriptions of Clement entail his aversions to conflict and his generally mellow personality. Phillip needed a mellow pope for his plans regarding his French empire. Also it was only after Phillip was being accused of motivation by greed that he dropped his claims on the confiscated Templar property. One can also see Phillips support waning after the Council of Vienne ruled in favor of legal defense for the Templars, and accusations of greed coming against him. He renounces his claims and then ceases all of his direct intervention, which was the only testimony towards his "zeal". Little inconsistencies and lack tangible evidence not retrieved from medieval torture, might give one serious misgivings about the Templars trial. Without the umbrella of Papal Infallibility the whole ordeal has a very weak foundation and since no definitive answer has emerged regarding whether whether the Bulls actually deal in morals, we must leave the silent readers to draw their own conclusions.


    Another quick observation before I jump off the soapbox, notice how desperate things become regarding the Holy Land after the suppression of the order. If the Bulls are to prove anything in that regard it's that the Templars were the only thing standing between Islam and the Holy Land, regardless of the accusations being true or not.


    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #54 on: February 05, 2016, 10:27:50 AM »
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  • Maybe you are reading a different translation than moi. :confused1:

     Unless I am mistaken, sodomy, heresy and blasphemy( all of which are mentioned specifically by the Pope) fall in the catagory of faith & morals-- fact is that the infallible Bulls of Clement have never been rescinded.

    Fr Parsons essay in vol 2 easily debunks the Clement/ Philip 'deal' allegation.

    At any rate, many thanks for posting documents.

    I will comment more after reading all the Bulls.  :soapbox:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #55 on: February 05, 2016, 02:40:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Maybe you are reading a different translation than moi. :confused1:

     Unless I am mistaken, sodomy, heresy and blasphemy( all of which are mentioned specifically by the Pope) fall in the catagory of faith & morals-- fact is that the infallible Bulls of Clement have never been rescinded.

    Fr Parsons essay in vol 2 easily debunks the Clement/ Philip 'deal' allegation.

    At any rate, many thanks for posting documents.

    I will comment more after reading all the Bulls.  :soapbox:


    It is explicitly mentioned but it does not teach or define. It discusses whether or not the Templars are guilty of these crimes. It's a transcript of the Trials and the actions being taken throughout this trial.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34


    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #56 on: February 06, 2016, 10:02:14 PM »
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  • roscoe said:

    "Pardon me for being a little confused.  

    You have spent much time recently attempting to convince the Forum that Papal Bulls are 'fallible'. As such, does that mean that Catholics are not bound to what they say? Why bother posting Papal Bulls if that is the case?

    When the Pope pronounces ex-communication for some offenses in the above Bulls, does this mean that he is wrong?"


    Papal Infallibility can apply to a specific topic within a Bull but not the entire Bull for often they may deal with several matters which can be excluded from Papal Infallibility.


    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    « Reply #57 on: February 06, 2016, 10:09:18 PM »
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  • "In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a supernatural sense of faith the People of God, under the guidance of the Church's living magisterium, unfailingly adheres to this faith." Catechism, p. 235, #889

    "The Roman Pontiff... enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith - he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals... This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself." Catechism, pg. 235, #891

    "The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when ... he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such." Code of Canon Law, Can. 747


    Just some quotes regarding Papal Infallibility to help us know what to look for in these documents to determine where they teach Infallibly.
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

     

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