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Author Topic: Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches  (Read 3276 times)

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Offline Cantarella

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This is very tragic:

From:

http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2014/05/03/scientific-evidence-of-host-particles-stomped-on-in-catholic-churches/

"Whether you are a traditional Catholic or a progressive modernist Catholic, you should at least care that  particles of Jesus from the Holy Communion are falling on the ground and being stomped on all the time in Catholic Churches through out the world.  Here is the scientific proof.  You can see the white particle on the upper right hand side of the paten.photoI left this particle on the paten after giving Holy Communion this morning at Holy Latin Mass to take a picture of it.  I did this so to show the world scientific proof that large particles, like this one, are falling on the ground and being walked on in most Catholic churches that do not have patens to catch these particles.

I left the paten in a protected area on the altar until after Holy Mass so that I could take the picture of it.  I them consumed the particle and purified the paten.  It is quite often that I see these particles and carefully brush them off the paten into the chalice after the altar boys pass the paten to me at the end of Holy Communion
"...

Use of a patent and obligatory communion kneeling and in the mouth should end this tragedy of Our Lord being stepped on like this. Hosts should be carefully protected and treated with the most utter respect.  
If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


Offline Neil Obstat

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Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 08:19:55 PM »
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  • .

    Of course, he is absolutely correct.  

    Regardless of the size of the particle, it is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord.  If the particles are too small to be visible, they're still Jesus, which is why the patten and why only the Priest touches the host, and it goes ON YOUR TONGUE.  Furthermore, you should not chew it, because then obviously, you get particles stuck in your teeth, where they might end up stuck to your toothbrush or dental floss or toothpick or apple core or whatever.

    Some years ago, about 1993, I asked an aging pastor Emeritus at a local parish about this fragment of hosts problem.  You would think that he would have known better.  He was about 90 years old at the time, an old Irish priest, who always recited the Anima Christi after Mass (in English).  

    "Soul of Christ, sanctify me.  
    Body of Christ save me.  
    Blood of Christ inebriate me.  
    Water from the side of Christ, wash me.  
    Passion of Christ strengthen me.  
    O good Jesus, hear me.  
    Within Thy wounds, hide me.  
    Suffer me not to be separated from Thee.  
    From the malicious enemy defend me.  
    In the hour of my death call me,
    And bid me come unto Thee,
    That with Thy saints I may praise Thee
    Forever and ever.  Amen."

    He told me that "In the old days," they used to have a "special washing" whereby the communion rail and the kneeling pads and the floor were cleansed to be sure any particles are safely picked up and not left unnoticed.  And before then, there was a cloth that was placed over the rail for extra protection, and the cloth was specially washed, too.  Then he abruptly said, "But we don't do that anymore."  He was not sad, or in any way unhappy about the loss of this custom and tradition of longstanding practice which had been abandoned within his living memory.  He had been there when it happened.  And he didn't mind losing it.  He had no explanation for this.  That was just the way it is.  

    Since I could not get a satisfactory answer out of him, I tried one of the so-called deacons in the parish, who had recently been through "training." (But he didn't seem to have learned much.)  I said that not too long ago, there was a special washing that was done on the communion rail and the floor and kneeling pads to be sure that no tiny fragments of the hosts would be mistreated in a profane way, like vacuum or mop in a bucket or leaf blower.  

    His answer was more informative effectively than the elderly priest's.  He said that he had never heard of any such "special washing."  (I realized then that the only reason the priest had told me that is because I had pressed the issue and he had to remember something he had long tried to forget about.)  

    The deacon then told me the best part.  He opened his mouth and uttered these very words, and I will never forget them.  He said to me:  "They taught us in our preparatory classes that when a particle of a consecrated host is too small to be recognizable, it loses its character."  

    Therefore, this priest in the website who took a picture of the fragment, according to the teachings that are given for new "deacons" in NovusOrdo training programs, was taking a picture of something that they say has lost its character because it is not recognizable as a piece of the host, since it is too small.  

    I offer you this, dear reader, as an example of how bad theology has consequences.  For it is now a teaching of these same NovusOrdo "deacons" that it is not until the priest RAISES THE HOST into the air above his head at the consecration, and when comes the moment the congregation LOOKS at it, that FOR THEM, it becomes the Body and Blood of Our Lord.  This is what the Lutherans and Pres-byterians say, as well, and therefore, being more honest in their heresy, these protestants say that it is Jesus IN the host, that He SHARES its substance because it still LOOKS like bread therefore it IS still bread, but it is ALSO Jesus, in an analogous way, that is, symbolically, so long as people are present to see it that way, because it is their PERCEPTION and their SUBJECTIVE REALITY that makes it as it were Jesus, but when these people leave the room, any unconsumed hosts or particles thereof lose their character, and become again simply pieces of unleavened bread.

    ONE might now see how at JPII stadium 'masses' they were able to collect unconsumed hosts in burlap sacks (not a typo -- burlap sacks) and unceremoniously CAST THEM into the nearest river.  

    And this man was canonized a Saint on Quasitrad Sunday (a.k.a. Quasimodo Sunday).

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 07:03:29 PM »
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  •  The enormity of this violence to Our Lord...

    Offline Matthew

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2014, 07:20:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .
    Furthermore, you should not chew it, because then obviously, you get particles stuck in your teeth, where they might end up stuck to your toothbrush or dental floss or toothpick or apple core or whatever.


    That's pious, sentimental nonsense. At the very least it's only your personal opinion which I'm going to disagree with, and I'll even give you my reasons why.

    Are you aware that once the Host loses the form of bread it is no longer Our Lord?

    Consecrated Host + saliva + time = not Our Lord anymore.

    Most people's mouths are not bone-dry. Maybe if you have some kind of disorder that causes your mouth to be dry (below-average saliva production) you might go with this advice. Maybe smokers have this problem; I don't know. But most people can safely ignore it.

    Our Lord said "take and eat" -- not "take and gulp like it's a capsule". Eating involves chewing.

    Yes, you can be discreet about it, but above all else you must guard against Our Lord ending up on the floor.

    As I said in a previous post, this pious nonsense arose from some wandering imaginations trying to imagine what it must be like for Jesus, putting themselves in His shoes as it were, and thinking about how they might make the experience a bit more pleasant for Him.

    Long story short, don't worry about Our Lord. You can't possibly imagine what it's like to be God. Putting yourself in the place of God is one of those exercises they started doing with young people in the 1960's -- bad news all around.

    Children, especially, are not that great at swallowing large pills or capsules. Having a pill end up on the floor is fine. Having their 1st Communion end up on the church floor is another matter!

    I have read countless Catholic books (pre-V2) and studied 3 1/2 years at a traditional Catholic seminary. I haven't come across any official Church doctrine or directive commanding that we not touch Holy Communion with our teeth, and I defy you to produce any.

    My child's (pious, older, female) First Communion catechism teacher gave this same advice to all her students, and Our Lord ended up on the floor when the gag reflex kicked in. Great advice...NOT!
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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 07:40:31 PM »
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  •  :incense: :incense:A disgusting N.O. Mass celebrated by the very late Cardinal Joseph Bernadine at Grant's Park in Chicago, Illinois in the early 1990's.

    The second photo looks like communion hosts being distributed.

    Those three people with grey hair are my age. And they should have
    known better. If they were Catholics all their lives, they attended a
    Catholic Parochial School when there were solid Catholic teachings
    being taught by the Good Nuns.

    I would never attend such mass, having such memories of a long time
    ago.



    Offline Thorn

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 07:43:21 PM »
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  • I've never, ever heard anyone say to chew the Host!!!  And this was before the 60's. You are cautioned not to. Your teeth are not to touch It.  You are to let It rest on your tongue or roof of your mouth & It will soon dissolve.

    It was hard reading that post, Matthew.  
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #6 on: May 10, 2014, 09:27:25 AM »
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  • I have to agree with Thorn, I was taught back in the late 40's not to chew the host to let it dissolve a little then swallow.  

    I do agree after it is gone, the true presence is also gone.  
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Thorn

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 10:24:53 AM »
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  • Thanks, Myrna.
    Matthew defied us to produce any Church docuмent.  Rather he must produce any church docuмent, but it must have been written before the '50's, that supports his hideous claim.  
    I'm sorry that that post ever saw the light of day.  It bothered me that much that a Catholic could think like that.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Jacob III

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 10:06:22 AM »
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  • Parishes with this problem should hear a homily comparing reverence for the Eucharist to particles of gold dust. Would people be so casual if specks of gold were falling to the floor? Is not gold valuable? Isn't Our Lord in the Eucharist much more valuable?
    Laudetur Iesus Christus!

    Offline Thorn

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 11:07:16 AM »
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  • Well said, Jacob III.  This abuse of the Host is as bad as Communion in the hand.  So very sad!
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline Cheryl

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 12:10:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thorn
    I've never, ever heard anyone say to chew the Host!!!  And this was before the 60's. You are cautioned not to. Your teeth are not to touch It.  You are to let It rest on your tongue or roof of your mouth & It will soon dissolve.

    It was hard reading that post, Matthew.  


    Thorn and Myrna, thanks for your posts.  Growing up, only God could have saved me from the wrath of my Mother if she had seen me chewing the host.  I was taught not to chew it and not even to think of touching the host.  As a Catholic child, there was nothing worse then getting the host stuck on the roof of your mouth.  There seemed there was no other way to rectify the situation but to sit and wait for it dissolve.  Never, never, should anything but the tongue touch the host.


    Offline Matthew

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 12:56:05 PM »
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  • I still don't see any doctrinal basis for your pious belief.

    "Manducare" is "to eat"

    Our Lord said:

    "Accipite, et manducate ex hoc omnes: Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum."

    Eating usually involves chewing.

    Of course if you're old enough and you can gulp it, go ahead. In fact, I would submit that most adults can probably do this, and they should try to consume the Host as discreetly as possible, just to be dignified. But children often can't do this, and there's nothing wrong with making sure that Our Lord doesn't end up on the floor.

    The tongue isn't any "better" than the teeth. You shouldn't worry about Our Lord's "experience" being consumed by each of us. Don't worry about your bad breath, etc. He is God; we can't really put ourselves in His shoes. To even attempt to do so is ridiculous.

    My challenge stands. Show me one docuмent that talks about this.

    Quoting what was taught in the 1940's or 1950's doesn't really help. Those who were alive back then witnessed (allowed?) the wide-scale destruction of the Church on their watch -- so we can't say everything was perfect in the 1950's.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 01:05:49 PM »
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  • With the Eastern Rite form of Holy Communion (including leavened bread) one almost has to chew (it won't just dissolve in any reasonable amount of time).

    With that said, part of the key, Matthew, is "time".  I've seen Catholics chewing gum just minutes after Mass; you KNOW that the particles have not had a chance yet to be broken down by the saliva.

    Even when proper care is taken, as by Traditional priests, you KNOW that some particles escape and end up on the floor.  SSPX has outdoor Masses and it's inevitable that some tiny particles get blown away.  I've always wondered how God takes care of those particles.  I imagine that a Guardian Angel might be assigned to each one.  We know that Our Lord's Precious Blood spilled into the ground during His Passion.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 01:21:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    With the Eastern Rite form of Holy Communion (including leavened bread) one almost has to chew (it won't just dissolve in any reasonable amount of time).

    With that said, part of the key, Matthew, is "time".  I've seen Catholics chewing gum just minutes after Mass; you KNOW that the particles have not had a chance yet to be broken down by the saliva.

    Even when proper care is taken, as by Traditional priests, you KNOW that some particles escape and end up on the floor.  SSPX has outdoor Masses and it's inevitable that some tiny particles get blown away.  I've always wondered how God takes care of those particles.  I imagine that a Guardian Angel might be assigned to each one.  We know that Our Lord's Precious Blood spilled into the ground during His Passion.


    That's why Catholics should make a thanksgiving after Mass. At the Seminary a 10 minute thanksgiving was enforced.

    And another thing: It's a certainty that the priest has to chew his large Host. If chewing the Host were bad, it would be bad for *everyone*. If chewing the Host "hurt Jesus" like many pious older women believe, the priest shouldn't do it either.

    There was a long thread about this topic on Fr. Z's blog. Several people pointed out that any particles that get "stuck in one's teeth" would certainly be very small, so they would dissolve pretty quickly. Latin Rite/Tridentine Masses use pure white flour and they tend to be thinner/smaller to begin with (compared with those used in the Novus Ordo).

    Hosts used in Tridentine Masses dissolve quickly in any liquid. Remember: floury water or flour goo is not bread. Once the accidents of bread are gone, Our Lord leaves. Not bread = not Our Lord any longer.

    Unless one has a dry mouth condition or something, there shouldn't be any danger.

    Another interesting point: Several Moral Theology manuals mention that to actually receive communion, you must swallow the Host while it's still under the appearances of bread. If you wait until it completely dissolves in your mouth or something, you don't actually receive Our Lord.
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    Offline shin

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    Scientific Evidence Of Host Particles Walked On In Catholic Churches
    « Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 02:11:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    This is very tragic:

    From:

    http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2014/05/03/scientific-evidence-of-host-particles-stomped-on-in-catholic-churches/

    "Whether you are a traditional Catholic or a progressive modernist Catholic, you should at least care that  particles of Jesus from the Holy Communion are falling on the ground and being stomped on all the time in Catholic Churches through out the world.  Here is the scientific proof.  You can see the white particle on the upper right hand side of the paten.photoI left this particle on the paten after giving Holy Communion this morning at Holy Latin Mass to take a picture of it.  I did this so to show the world scientific proof that large particles, like this one, are falling on the ground and being walked on in most Catholic churches that do not have patens to catch these particles.

    I left the paten in a protected area on the altar until after Holy Mass so that I could take the picture of it.  I them consumed the particle and purified the paten.  It is quite often that I see these particles and carefully brush them off the paten into the chalice after the altar boys pass the paten to me at the end of Holy Communion
    "...

    Use of a patent and obligatory communion kneeling and in the mouth should end this tragedy of Our Lord being stepped on like this. Hosts should be carefully protected and treated with the most utter respect.  


    One of my very first posts on Cathinfo was about this issue. Still today I am somewhat astonished that it touches the hearts of so few. I cannot comprehend it.

    Lord have mercy.  :pray:  :pray:  :pray:

    This is my 1001st post today!  
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-