Author Topic: Saint Pauls thorn in the flesh (Read 1949 times)

jhfromsf68 · « **on:** January 21, 2017, 03:44:04 AM »

Hello forum,

What is your understanding of new testament passages 2 Corinthians 12:7 where Saint Paul discuses the thorn in the flesh sent to him to keep him from pride?

I talked to an Institute of Christ the King priest who believes Saint Paul was referring to having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ desires or temptations, but I don't see where that is actually supported in the passages or anywhere else in Saint Paul's writings.

Is there a accepted Catholic way of interpreting this?

Thanks
James

poche · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2017, 04:17:38 AM »

I think that there was an actual demon who beat him.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2017, 09:53:19 PM »

Pending further enlightenment, I'm sure it's a mystery and will remain so for now.

Anyone who immediately jumps to the conclusion that it is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity may already have his finger on the scale.

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2017, 10:12:11 PM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

Hello forum,

What is your understanding of new testament passages 2 Corinthians 12:7 where Saint Paul discuses the thorn in the flesh sent to him to keep him from pride?

I talked to an Institute of Christ the King priest who believes Saint Paul was referring to having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ desires or temptations, but I don't see where that is actually supported in the passages or anywhere else in Saint Paul's writings.

Is there a accepted Catholic way of interpreting this?

Thanks
James

I also think this is wishful thinking from those who have, shall we say, a vested interest in the matter.

Let's put it this way: the first time I heard this one, it was uttered by a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and/or transsɛҳuąƖ. Which, again, makes sense because OF COURSE they'd want to have a SAINT who had their "affliction". It would make ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity less odious, right?

Sorry. The fact of the matter is that sodomy is one of the 4 sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance.

Matto · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2017, 08:37:38 AM »

Um to suggest that Saint Paul had sodomite tendencies seems blasphemous to me. That idea seems straight from hell to me or from the mind of a pervert.

josefamenendez · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2017, 10:41:41 AM »

Romans 1:26 " For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature."

St Paul says God doesn't even want to intervene when the person is so defiled and weighted by this terrible crime against Him and nature. He allows to be delivered to their own vileness (as their choice) as this wickedness appears to be a final rejection of God.

That's not what happened to St Paul! He was thrown off a horse, blinded and literally saw Christ!
I'd call that an intervention and not being left to his "own devices".

There are many things for St Paul to be prideful about. Paul was a scribe and Jєωιѕн intellect- that is a great pride to overcome.

St Paul was not a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ!

St Ignatius · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2017, 12:01:41 PM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

Hello forum,

What is your understanding of new testament passages 2 Corinthians 12:7 where Saint Paul discuses the thorn in the flesh sent to him to keep him from pride?

I talked to an Institute of Christ the King priest who believes Saint Paul was referring to having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ desires or temptations, but I don't see where that is actually supported in the passages or anywhere else in Saint Paul's writings.

Is there a accepted Catholic way of interpreting this?

Thanks
James

My understanding has been that St Paul was afflicted with strong temptations of his lower passions. They were not temptations of sins against Nature.

When you read further, St Paul asks Our Lord to remove this temptation. Hardly the plea of one who may be tempted to sin against Nature, being these sins(temptations) are due to one’s turning away from God.

Cor 12-8. For which thing thrice I besought the Lord, that it might depart from me.

And I think this speaks for itself... it's through our fallen nature, and our corporation with God's Grace...

Cor 12-9. And he said to me: My grace is sufficient for thee; for power is made perfect in infirmity. Gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2017, 11:45:54 PM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

Hello forum,

What is your understanding of new testament passages 2 Corinthians 12:7 where Saint Paul discuses the thorn in the flesh sent to him to keep him from pride?

I talked to an Institute of Christ the King priest who believes Saint Paul was referring to having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ desires or temptations, but I don't see where that is actually supported in the passages or anywhere else in Saint Paul's writings.

Is there a accepted Catholic way of interpreting this?

Thanks
James

Padre pio's prayers prevented one of the novices from the sin of impurity and a demon came to his room and beat him black and blue.

jhfromsf68 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2017, 09:04:27 AM »

Thanks for all your responses. I also think that Saint Paul was facing temptations from his lower nature and that seemed to be the most likely interpretations of those passages.I just wasn't sure.

I definitely don't think Saint Paul was struggling with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ urges and think it's odd that an traditional priest would believe that.

klasG4e · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2017, 10:27:50 AM »

I know of a traditional Catholic priest who asserted that God created some men who were not sɛҳuąƖly attracted to men or women. He claimed that some such men were called by God to the Catholic priesthood. As far as I know he has not shared those views -- at least not publicly -- with any of his fellow priests, for perhaps all too obvious reasons.

klasG4e · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2017, 12:53:21 PM »

klasG4e

Quote

I know of a traditional Catholic priest who asserted that God created some men who were not sɛҳuąƖly attracted to men or women. He claimed that some such men were called by God to the Catholic priesthood. As far as I know he has not shared those views -- at least not publicly -- with any of his fellow priests, for perhaps all too obvious reasons.

He further claimed that such men were a sort of spiritual eunuch for Christ, that God made them the way they were in order that they be enabled to serve in such a capacity! (I agree -- you can't make this stuff up!)

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2017, 01:41:41 PM »

Well, some people just have a really low libido. If raising a family isn't their thing, why not serve the Church?

josefamenendez · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2017, 04:13:40 PM »

Priests have to be heterosɛҳuąƖ, (not asɛҳuąƖ) to understand the role of Father, in the process of begetting and rearing spiritual children. Priests also have a unique intimate and exclusive relationship to the Eucharist, and although obviously not a human-marital relationship, there is a much deeper bonding that masculine heterosɛҳuąƖity can only provide.
Also, as the Priesthood is a sacrifice of the desire for earthly goods in exchange for spiritual ones , so there must be the sacrifice of giving up the normal inclinations of wife and family for total devotion to Christ and His Church. A Priest should emulate the manliness of Christ.
So...an asɛҳuąƖ becoming a priest by default.....ummm not so good. Doesn't fit the bill.

klasG4e · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2017, 11:04:43 AM »

josefamenedez

Quote

Priests have to be heterosɛҳuąƖ, (not asɛҳuąƖ) to understand the role of Father, in the process of begetting and rearing spiritual children. Priests also have a unique intimate and exclusive relationship to the Eucharist, and although obviously not a human-marital relationship, there is a much deeper bonding that masculine heterosɛҳuąƖity can only provide.
Also, as the Priesthood is a sacrifice of the desire for earthly goods in exchange for spiritual ones , so there must be the sacrifice of giving up the normal inclinations of wife and family for total devotion to Christ and His Church. A Priest should emulate the manliness of Christ.
So...an asɛҳuąƖ becoming a priest by default.....ummm not so good. Doesn't fit the bill.

Well said! I agree!

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2017, 01:35:12 PM »

I think it's an anomoly for someone to be asɛҳuąƖ. Having a low libido is not being asɛҳuąƖ. Having a low libido doesn't decrease your desire for a family it just means, compared to others, you have a lower desire.

I agree that if a person "isn't attracted to a man/woman" that is an aberration, not the norm. And that doesn't mean they should, by default, become a religious.