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Author Topic: Russian Orthodox Icons  (Read 2634 times)

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Offline Cantarella

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Russian Orthodox Icons
« on: October 07, 2013, 10:27:56 PM »
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  • I am a big fan of byzantine / Russian Orthodox art. It is just in my blood.

    Is it OK for me to add Russian Orthodox icons to my Roman Catholic altar?

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Kazimierz

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    « Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 10:45:18 PM »
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  • If you mean saints recognized only by the Orthodox Church, then obviously no.

    Otherwise there is no theological wrongness in having Our Lord or Our Blessed Mother or Catholic saint. All my icons were blest by TLM priests.

    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster


    Offline Devekut

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    « Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 12:21:04 AM »
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  • Just make sure you don't purchase icons from those Orthodox turned Buddhist people. I really don't think any Christian would want one of those.

    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 12:49:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: Kazimierz
    If you mean saints recognized only by the Orthodox Church, then obviously no.

    Otherwise there is no theological wrongness in having Our Lord or Our Blessed Mother or Catholic saint. All my icons were blest by TLM priests.



    That's good to know. I was thinking on the classic orthodox icons, think of the Christ Pantocrator, Our Lady of Kazan, Christ Enthroned, Ladder of Divine Ascent, etc.  
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 12:51:37 AM »
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  • There is this one, I find particulary fascinating, the Bogolyubskaya of Moscow. Notice Our Holy Mother standing with a scroll in her hand. It originates with a vision seen by Andrei Bogolyubsky, Prince of Vladimir-Suzdal in the 12th century.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 02:19:12 AM »
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  • .

    Traditional icons are most inspiring.  You've got some nice
    ones there.  I've seen shops online that sell reproductions
    and they can be rather costly.  I've got a few little ones of
    the Apostles, about 4x6, and they are quite nice to look at.  
    They help with Rosary meditations.  

    If you have any doubts, just ask a traditional priest, like
    when you ask him to bless them.  

    It's most interesting to see the faithful of Eastern Churches
    line up to touch and kiss their icons.  They show great
    reverence, and that's important for the Faith.

    There was a traveling display of very rare original works
    at the J. Paul Getty museum some years ago, and it was
    quite odd to see so many people filing through, sort of
    "standing in line" to view them, but the vast majority of
    the people showed no conspicuous devotion - the guards
    would not let anyone touch them, of course.  It didn't
    seem to be right, to treat these great icons as merely
    material "works of art," as if they're just like all the other
    fancy furnishings in other "displays."  Some of them are
    believed to have been made by contemporaries of the
    Apostles, perhaps even the Gospel author, St. Luke, who
    was an artist and a physician.


    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 06:15:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: Devekut
    Just make sure you don't purchase icons from those Orthodox turned Buddhist people. I really don't think any Christian would want one of those.


    Light of Christ Monastery is the name of this group.  They used to be called Holy Protection Monastery.  They try to look legitimate in their catalog to persuade Catholics and Orthodox to buy their icons.  They are actually Gnostics, and as Devekut points out they incorporate Hinduism in their practices.  

    My son who is a Byzantine rite priest, will happy bless Icons that have been written by Orthodox, saying, "Once I bless it, it is a Catholic icon."
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline mikemac

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    « Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 09:11:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    Traditional icons are most inspiring.  You've got some nice
    ones there.  I've seen shops online that sell reproductions
    and they can be rather costly.  I've got a few little ones of
    the Apostles, about 4x6, and they are quite nice to look at.  
    They help with Rosary meditations.  

    If you have any doubts, just ask a traditional priest, like
    when you ask him to bless them.  

    It's most interesting to see the faithful of Eastern Churches
    line up to touch and kiss their icons.  They show great
    reverence, and that's important for the Faith.

    There was a traveling display of very rare original works
    at the J. Paul Getty museum some years ago, and it was
    quite odd to see so many people filing through, sort of
    "standing in line" to view them, but the vast majority of
    the people showed no conspicuous devotion - the guards
    would not let anyone touch them, of course.  It didn't
    seem to be right, to treat these great icons as merely
    material "works of art," as if they're just like all the other
    fancy furnishings in other "displays."  Some of them are
    believed to have been made by contemporaries of the
    Apostles, perhaps even the Gospel author, St. Luke, who
    was an artist and a physician.




    The history of the Black Madonna of Czestochowska, Poland prior to its arrival in Poland is shrouded in numerous legends which trace the icon's origin to St. Luke who painted it on a cedar table top from the house of the Holy Family.  Note the fleur de lys on the Madonna's robe.



    An Eastern Orthodox Icon of Our Lady of Czestochowa, copied right down to the two slash marks on her right cheek.



    The legend concerning the two scars on the Black Madonna's right cheek is that the Hussites stormed the Pauline monastery in 1430, plundering the sanctuary. Among the items stolen was the icon. After putting it in their wagon, the Hussites tried to get away but their horses refused to move. They threw the portrait down to the ground and one of the plunderers drew his sword upon the image and inflicted two deep strikes. When the robber tried to inflict a third strike, he fell to the ground and squirmed in agony until his death.

    Another legend states that, as the robber struck the painting twice, the face of the Virgin Mary started to bleed; in a panic, the scared Hussites retreated and left the painting.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna_of_Cz%C4%99stochowa


    Offline Kazimierz

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    « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 12:12:16 PM »
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  • There are a few variations on the Black Madonna of Czestochowa. The two I have were made on oval shaped cuts of wood. The other big Polish icon would be MB Gromniczna (Candlemas).

    I had travelling icons (small enough to carry with you alongside a rosary) but I lost it somewhere. :-(

    Good to have protection when sleeping/staying in places not thy own or with fellow Catholics. (Blest salt and holy water also good esp for motels and hotels, for who knows what evil lurks in the abodes of men?)  :wink:
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline RosaleeMarie

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    « Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 12:45:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Kazimierz
    There are a few variations on the Black Madonna of Czestochowa. The two I have were made on oval shaped cuts of wood. The other big Polish icon would be MB Gromniczna (Candlemas).


    I've got a couple of holy cards of the Black Madonna, one of my favorites.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 10:17:07 PM »
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  • .

    I have a key fob medallion with Our Mother of Perpetual
    Help on it, which was given to me by a Coptic Orthodox
    priest.  He seemed to know exactly which one was for me,
    as he had about 20 different ones to choose from.  I told
    him, "Oh, I know about her.  She has a feast day that
    curiously falls on a very important day for me, which I
    didn't realize until 5 years after the event.  He did not
    seem too surprised, and that also made me wonder.  

    Since then, I have lost the keys three times and they have
    been returned or found each time.  

    Also, I have tried to give the icon away several times, and
    it has come back to me each time.  

    Something is going on here...............



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 10:48:04 AM »
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  • What about a Russian Orthodox Cross. Is it allowed for Catholics to wear or display this kind of cross? You notice there are 3 bars in this kind of cross, not 2. We don't have the bottom bar.

    Of course, after a proper blessing from a Roman Catholic priest, I mean.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Timothy

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    « Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 11:24:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    What about a Russian Orthodox Cross. Is it allowed for Catholics to wear or display this kind of cross? You notice there are 3 bars in this kind of cross, not 2. We don't have the bottom bar.


    Additionally, the Orthodox crucifixes almost invariably have a skull at the foot of the cross that signifies the pious tradition that Christ was crucified on Adam's grave.

    Offline Kazimierz

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    « Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 04:45:57 PM »
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  • As the said crucifix icon is venerated by Byzantine Catholics, we Latins can also take avail.
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 07:10:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    What about a Russian Orthodox Cross. Is it allowed for Catholics to wear or display this kind of cross? You notice there are 3 bars in this kind of cross, not 2. We don't have the bottom bar.

    Of course, after a proper blessing from a Roman Catholic priest, I mean.


    Byzantine Catholics use crosses like this routinely.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with them.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir