Author Topic: Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1909 Edition vs 1878 Edition  (Read 712 times)

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Offline mcollier

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Good afternoon: 

Are any of you familiar with the "Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul" 1909 edition and do you know if there is any significant difference between it and the 1878 edition? (i.e. introduction of modernism/heresy?). 

I found a used copy online that I just purchased because the latest edition that the SVdP published in 2006 is suspect to put it mildly. 

I also found a book seller called "Repressed Publishing" that will run individual reprints of the 1878 edition,but I have no experience with this company (would be interested to know if anyone has bought anything from them before). 

Thank you! God bless.  

Offline poche

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  • I don't know what 'rules' you are talking about but at the St Vincent de Paul where I live we raise money and we share it with the poor by direct assistance.   


    Offline Nadir

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  • It's not the rules but The Rule, as in https://www.vinnies.org.au/icms_docs/168122_The_Rule.pdf

    I wonder why you mentioned those two dates: 1878 and 1909.

    Maybe you give the link you are talking about. But certainly the SVdeP has lost the plot as far as the faith is concerned.

    They are not even St Vincent de Paul where I am, but Vinnies. I gave them away as a bad bet.

    Offline mcollier

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  • I am referring to “The Rule”, but it (like everything else was tampered with and changed after Vat II), so I wanted to get my hands on the real deal. It just so happens that those were the earliest titles/publication dates I could find. I think the original was published in 1833, but I imagine that is in French and very hard to come by. 

    I try to be as active as I can in my local conference. The people involved are very good unsuspecting Novus Ordo retirees (whose culpability for staying with the Novus Ordo would be hard to judge and better left to God Almighty). Nonetheless they do very good work. I stay involved. I am the youngest by far, which is another sign of the fruits of the Newchurch and the new SVdP. 

    I went to Ozanam Training the other weekend and was totally scandalized by the presenter. She was a child of the 60’s. Praised the French Revolution. Encouraged prayer in other faiths. Downplayed any problems with Wicca. And on and on. So I said, I need to get the original copy of The Rule if I am going to stay in this group or I will need to set up a Traditional conference or something.

    Offline poche

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  • I am referring to “The Rule”, but it (like everything else was tampered with and changed after Vat II), so I wanted to get my hands on the real deal. It just so happens that those were the earliest titles/publication dates I could find. I think the original was published in 1833, but I imagine that is in French and very hard to come by.

    I try to be as active as I can in my local conference. The people involved are very good unsuspecting Novus Ordo retirees (whose culpability for staying with the Novus Ordo would be hard to judge and better left to God Almighty). Nonetheless they do very good work. I stay involved. I am the youngest by far, which is another sign of the fruits of the Newchurch and the new SVdP.

    I went to Ozanam Training the other weekend and was totally scandalized by the presenter. She was a child of the 60’s. Praised the French Revolution. Encouraged prayer in other faiths. Downplayed any problems with Wicca. And on and on. So I said, I need to get the original copy of The Rule if I am going to stay in this group or I will need to set up a Traditional conference or something.
    Where I live we promote the rosary.  


    Offline mcollier

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  • Where I live we promote the rosary.  
    Amen. 

    Offline Nadir

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  • Quote
    I am referring to “The Rule”, but it (like everything else was tampered with and changed after Vat II), so I wanted to get my hands on the real deal. It just so happens that those were the earliest titles/publication dates I could find. I think the original was published in 1833, but I imagine that is in French and very hard to come by.


    Yes in French, but likely translated, dated 1835. If you wrote to the headquarters they would have an archivist who should be able to give you what information you seek.
    .
    I was referring to Poche's comment that he didn't know what rules you were talking about, and you wrote rules as well.

    Some info here, though not much.
    http://vinformation.org/en/who-what/family/the-rule-of-the-society-of-st-vincent-de-paul/



    Quote
    I try to be as active as I can in my local conference. The people involved are very good unsuspecting Novus Ordo retirees (whose culpability for staying with the Novus Ordo would be hard to judge and better left to God Almighty). Nonetheless they do very good work. I stay involved. I am the youngest by far, which is another sign of the fruits of the Newchurch and the new SVdP.

    Indeed, I am familiar with that picture. I had a lot of experience with the SVdP over the years in various capacities.



    Quote
    I went to Ozanam Training the other weekend and was totally scandalized by the presenter. She was a child of the 60’s. Praised the French Revolution. Encouraged prayer in other faiths. Downplayed any problems with Wicca. And on and on.

    Been there – done that!  Challenged the presenters, written letters, spoken to authorities. Very frustrating and a waste of time. The society was founded for the sanctification of its members. If you are not being sanctified but scandalised then it is not fulfilling its mission. I believe that you are wasting your time in the novus ordo structures.



    Quote
    So I said, I need to get the original copy of The Rule if I am going to stay in this group or I will need to set up a Traditional conference or something.

    I’d be going for the something, because you will be able to do nothing about having a Traditional conference within the new church SVdP. A priest I know (conservative but still NO) ejected them from his parish and encouraged the (now ex-)SVdP members to set up a new organisation within the parish, and that seems to work well.


    Offline songbird

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  • I do have a old book of St. Vincent De Paul group.  No where in the book did it mention or refer to giving support to the poor, not even food.  It's main goal was going door to door to see that people had their sacraments and a way to the sacraments.  Sounds like the Blue Army, but this was St. Vincent De Paul.  With time, I will see if I can find the book.


    Offline Nadir

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  • Songbird, I think your memory is playing tricks. Right from the very start the SVdP did works of charity for the poor.
    .
    According to https://famvin.org/wiki/Frederic_Ozanam
    .
    Under the sponsorship of an older ex-professor, J. Emmanuel Bailly, these young men revived a discussion group called a "Society of Good Studies" and formed it into a "Conference of History" which quickly became a forum for large and lively discussions among students. Their attentions turned frequently to the social teachings of the Gospel.
    .
    At one meeting during a heated debate in which Ozanam and his friends were trying to prove from historical evidence alone the truth of the Catholic Church as the one founded by Christ, their adversaries declared that, though at one time the Church was a source of good, it no longer was. One voice issued the challenge, "What is your church doing now? What is she doing for the poor of Paris? Show us your works and we will believe you!" In response, one of Ozanam's companions, Auguste de Letaillandier, suggested some effort in favor of the poor. "Yes," Ozanam agreed, "let us go to the poor!"
    .
    After this, the "Conference of History" became the "Conference of Charity" which eventually was named the "Conference of St. Vincent de Paul." Now, instead of engaging in mere discussion and debate, seven of the group (M. Bailly, Frederic Ozanam, Francois Lallier, Paul Lamanche, Felix Clave, Auguste Letaillandier and Jules De Vaux) met on a May evening in 1833 for the first time and determined to engage in practical works of charity. This little band was to expand rapidly over France and around the world even during the lifetime of Ozanam.

    Offline poche

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  • Songbird, I think your memory is playing tricks. Right from the very start the SVdP did works of charity for the poor.
    .
    According to https://famvin.org/wiki/Frederic_Ozanam
    .
    Under the sponsorship of an older ex-professor, J. Emmanuel Bailly, these young men revived a discussion group called a "Society of Good Studies" and formed it into a "Conference of History" which quickly became a forum for large and lively discussions among students. Their attentions turned frequently to the social teachings of the Gospel.
    .
    At one meeting during a heated debate in which Ozanam and his friends were trying to prove from historical evidence alone the truth of the Catholic Church as the one founded by Christ, their adversaries declared that, though at one time the Church was a source of good, it no longer was. One voice issued the challenge, "What is your church doing now? What is she doing for the poor of Paris? Show us your works and we will believe you!" In response, one of Ozanam's companions, Auguste de Letaillandier, suggested some effort in favor of the poor. "Yes," Ozanam agreed, "let us go to the poor!"
    .
    After this, the "Conference of History" became the "Conference of Charity" which eventually was named the "Conference of St. Vincent de Paul." Now, instead of engaging in mere discussion and debate, seven of the group (M. Bailly, Frederic Ozanam, Francois Lallier, Paul Lamanche, Felix Clave, Auguste Letaillandier and Jules De Vaux) met on a May evening in 1833 for the first time and determined to engage in practical works of charity. This little band was to expand rapidly over France and around the world even during the lifetime of Ozanam.
    I agree with this. Bring conversion to others by being charitable to the poor.

    Offline mcollier

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    Re: Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1909 Edition vs 1878 Edition
    « Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 03:16:30 AM »
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  • I ordered the 1909 version and will report back what I learn. I understand that Archbishop Lefebvre's mother was a devoted member of the SVdP. 

    God grant me the simplicity and humility to follow the right course and to lead my family.  

    God bless. 


    Offline songbird

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    Re: Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1909 Edition vs 1878 Edition
    « Reply #11 on: December 05, 2017, 06:56:55 PM »
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  • The book I have is "Manual of the Society of St. Vincent De Paul" of 1944.  The Rule 1st chapter of Dec. 1835, articles, prayers and all chapters are of the 1800's like 1849 and such. This book was printed in Ireland.  Ends with Principal works of the Society: Schools, patronages, catechism, apprentices, employment, Holy Families, Marriages, Kitchens run by Sister of Charity and if possible the Brothers should take part in the distribution of the food, lodgings, libraries, visiting prisoners, hospitals,

    But I can tell you, St. Vincent De Paul societies of the New Order, serve everyone, when I asked why State phone numbers were advertised in their institutions.  The phone numbers were for abortion referral and etc. That was in 1995 in Phoenix.  And to this day, they continue. St. Vincent De Paul receives federal $$ and so they must align themselves such as the example with abortion referrals. 

    It is very sad!

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1909 Edition vs 1878 Edition
    « Reply #12 on: December 05, 2017, 09:19:11 PM »
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  • But I can tell you, St. Vincent De Paul societies of the New Order, serve everyone, when I asked why State phone numbers were advertised in their institutions. 
    Songbird, What do you mean by "serve everyone"?

    The phone numbers were for abortion referral and etc. That was in 1995 in Phoenix.  And to this day, they continue. 
    Continue what?

    St. Vincent De Paul receives federal $$ and so they must align themselves such as the example 
    What example? You didn't give an example.

    with abortion referrals. 
    Present evidence when you make accusations or insinuation like that.   Be more explicit. If you have evidence please present it.
     



    Offline songbird

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    Re: Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1909 Edition vs 1878 Edition
    « Reply #13 on: December 05, 2017, 11:24:00 PM »
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  • No accusations!  I followed federal grants, one being "Pregnancy Breastfeeding Hotline" and after 8 years "Baby Arizona" was also of the same phone number, of the state.  Baby Arizona came from the dioceses of Phoenix.  Monsignor Ryle boasted that Baby AZ came from his office.   The Ad for Baby AZ made the dioceses newspaper twice with the state phone number.  Ads in 8 X 10 of Baby AZ was in clinics and St. Vincent De Paul was just one of those institutions.  In 1995, I made a visit with Dr. Baker of St. Vincent De Pau and asked him why the Ads on the walls and he answered to me, "we serve everyone".  IMO he meant that he was to serve everyone, that is all desires and one being abortion referral.  I watched this program "Pregnancy and Breastfeeding Hotline" from the start about 1989. It was started with money from US West which was the name of the telephone company at that time.  The phone number was a State phone number and was also made on bookmarks for students, children.  I still have the copies.  Then Baby AZ was also known as the same as "Pregnancy and Breastfeeding Hotline."

    Yes, Baby AZ continues, with the New Order dioceses.  So, no accusations.  New Order is not a religious institute, it is a government institute.  Diocese serves the state and federal governments.  This is just one of the many programs. As we recall, in Europe, when Catholic clergy was tossed out, clergy/infiltrators were in their place and expected to serve gov't/state.

    This is what caused me to find truth and leave the New Order by 1996.  I was given clout to read grants by our Governor Mecham at the time.  Governor wanted to know who was bringing sex education into the state of AZ when it was against the laws.  I found out, it was the dioceses and they were paid quite well.  Private and parochial schools were used to do this.  

    Boy, did I learn the truth!!  Thank God for that!

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Rules of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1909 Edition vs 1878 Edition
    « Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 12:23:55 PM »
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  • Baby AZ /Pregnancy and Breastfeeding hotline: 800-833-4642  Then there are programs with Virginia Piper, Domestic Violence, Catholic Charities, Teen programs which have the same teachings as Planned Parenthood with teaching of condoms, which the dioceses did teach with The Aids Task Force of 1991.  Then the dioceses(nation wide) a $mill. per state, implemented TANF Temporary Assisted Needy Families.  For AZ 6 parishes signed up people for cash benefits and such.  Under jobs, if you are not pregnant and if you do you lose.  In these church halls were Planned Parenthood vendors and plastic model displays of IUD's and even writing of Birth control scripts. At Glendale Our Lady of Perpetual Help, was one of these parishes.  Deacon and wife were there to help sign people up for the cash benefits and the Health Fair in the Hall with Planned Parenthood display as you walked in.  I did not know what was going on and took awhile to see it was Grant/federal program.  I brought this to CUF, Catholic United for Faith.  I showed all that happened and proved it and still the CUF group just yawned and to this day CUF members stay in the New Order.

    Oh well.  In our traditional parish, we came across a new couple in their 50's.  They left  New Order because the husband, working in St. Vincent De Paul saw that they were supporting abortion.  I said, well good for you to notice what has been there for decades!  I asked him, "does anyone ask what happened to you and why you do not return and would you please come back?"  Oh, sure he said, but I can not convince this one man.  I said, "leave him be", what are the chances he maybe a communist sleeper.  You know, the Masonic club.  They are evil, so run and stay away."  

    Stephanie Block wrote several books on just this subject matter.  Catholic Charities of Saul Alinsky and the Industrial Areas Foundation.  IAF are so secretive, that you can not get info from their meetings.  No fliers, no name tags and etc.  If you were to record, you would stand out like a sour thumb.

    New Order, is what it is, a new order.  People under a banner, "catholic" but are not.  They go through motions and clergy are putting on a dog and pony show and keep the people and their $$.  Very Sad!

     

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