The following is a question that has puzzled me for some time now. Perhaps the answer is quite simple and its just that it isn't something that I was ever taught and I have never had to deal with it before.

Say for example you came across the girl of your dreams and the feelings were quite mutual and you were considering proposing to her; do you first seek her father's approval before you propose or do you propose and then seek her father's approval after?

My gut feeling is that you would seek her father's approval first though its something I'm not all that sure about.

The following is a question that has puzzled me for some time now. Perhaps the answer is quite simple and its just that it isn't something that I was ever taught and I have never had to deal with it before.

Say for example you came across the girl of your dreams and the feelings were quite mutual and you were considering proposing to her; do you first seek her father's approval before you propose or do you propose and then seek her father's approval after?

My gut feeling is that you would seek her father's approval first though its something I'm not all that sure about.

It's a sign of respect to ask for approval, however, he's not your father, and as St. Thomas Aquinas says:

The maid is in her father's power, not as a female slave without power over her own body, but as a daughter, for the purpose of education. Hence, in so far as she is free, she can give herself into another's power without her father's consent, even as a son or daughter, since they are free, may enter religion without their parent's consent.

Nevertheless man is bound to obey his fellow-man in things that have to be done externally by means of the body: and yet, since by nature all men are equal, he is not bound to obey another man in matters touching the nature of the body, for instance in those relating to the support of his body or the begetting of his children. Wherefore servants are not bound to obey their masters, nor children their parents, in the question of contracting marriage or of remaining in the state of virginity or the like. But in matters concerning the disposal of actions and human affairs, a subject is bound to obey his superior within the sphere of his authority; for instance a soldier must obey his general in matters relating to war, a servant his master in matters touching the execution of the duties of his service, a son his father in matters relating to the conduct of his life and the care of the household; and so forth.

Leo XIII states:

It is also a great blessing that the Church has limited, so far as is needful, the power of fathers of families, so that sons and daughters, wishing to marry, are not in any way deprived of their rightful freedom;

I also think its worth taking into account the culture of the family to which your potential partner belongs. As everyone's said, if she's an adult, then it's obviously not 'required', but a little respect goes a long way; even if you think they don't care as much about 'that kind of stuff' , I think it would say a lot of what kind of man you are compared with today's society of:

Thanks for the input everyone.

I knew this thread would get your attention Tele!  :wink:

Thanks for the quotes from St. Thomas Aquinas. Though I don't think that what he is saying is to be taken as a blanket rule that covers all circuмstances.
I think that what he is talking about would refer to the circuмstances in which the father was being unreasonable and was not letting his daughter go when he has no good reason to do so.

I personally would like to do it the old fashioned proper way as I see that it is more respectful of the family structure.

I think it is a good thing to do when the father is reasonable. I think that reason this does not happen a lot these days is just a symptom of the break down of the family and a loss of respect.

The picture you put up s2srea is far from me. I cannot stand that look and attitude. In a group they think they are as tuff as nails though get them on their own and they are as weak and bland as they come.

I do plan to earn the respect of a possible future father-in-law.

Thanks for the quotes from St. Thomas Aquinas. Though I don't think that what he is saying is to be taken as a blanket rule that covers all circuмstances.

The fundamental thing Zenith is that it is a free choice - it may be disrespectful and unwise to disregard a father's point of view on the issue, but no father should think it is his decision to make.

Quote from: Zenith

Thanks for the quotes from St. Thomas Aquinas. Though I don't think that what he is saying is to be taken as a blanket rule that covers all circuмstances.

The fundamental thing Zenith is that it is a free choice - it may be disrespectful and unwise to disregard a father's point of view on the issue, but no father should think it is his decision to make.

Yes Tele I accept that a woman has free choice. Although I would seek the father's approval out of respect, I would not necessarily be turned away if he was unreasonable and unwilling to give his approval.

I'm just curious though if you knew a girl that you intended to marry and you got on well with the Father and he was a reasonable person, would you seek his approval before proposing?

I know a family where the daughter wanted to marry against the father's wishes and he refused to give his approval though they are now married. From what I could see of the situation, I would say a great deal of the hassle came down to a lack of maturity in the girl and her now husband.
Though that may also be a reflection on the way she was raised.

I still couldn't point the finger and say any particular person was in the wrong.

You live and learn and I plan to live in a way that as far as is possible, gives due respect to the parents.

Quote from: Zenith

Say for example you came across the girl of your dreams and the feelings were quite mutual and you were considering proposing to her; do you first seek her father's approval before you propose or do you propose and then seek her father's approval after?

My gut feeling is that you would seek her father's approval first though its something I'm not all that sure about.

Zenith, I was moved to tears to read your inquiry.  It is so refreshing to know people actually care enough to ask that question, these days.  It is a beautiful custom and it is very "old school/old country" but in my family, it is tradition and it would be an insult, nay, heartbreak for my father, if a gentleman were not to ask his permission.  It does not matter the age of the daughter, for she will always be "Daddy's little girl" and she will always be his daughter.  That never changes with age.

What this society neglects is respect for the parents and elders.  Men these days have the theory, "I am dating the woman, not the family", which can be furthest from the truth, when you marry, you marry the family, as well as the woman.

My answer to you, dear one, would be, Ask her father's approval before you propose. This shows MUCH care and class.

Thank you for your answer Soldat.
I will definitely be doing exactly that. The way I see it is, if the girl I see so much beauty in is the way she is, it is because she is a kind of reflection of the parents and the way they raised her. And so my way of thanking them is to make this mark of respect.
I realise that you do marry the family and so I have every intention to do the right thing by them.

Men these days have the theory, "I am dating the woman, not the family", which can be furthest from the truth...

This theory, for good or ill, flows from the present way of things.  Families, in general, are notably smaller and, in many cases, very spread out.  Many young people do not live anywhere near their parents, siblings, etc.   In other words, the 'theory' of which you speak, which does not affect only men, has its roots in the disorders of the modern world.  I am not saying this is a good thing, but that it is rather understandable that moderns' ideas, on this point as in so many others, are somewhat warped.