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Offline frluc

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 05:42:08 AM »
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  • Why not copy it here?



    The Horror!

    A Buenos Aires journalist describes Bergoglio

    We have many friends around the world, including in the dear Argentine Republic. And we asked a cherished friend Marcelo González, of Panorama Católico Internacional, who knows the Church of Argentina as well as the palm of his hand to send us a report on the new pope.

    Here it goes:



       
        The Archbishop of Buenos Aires kneels down to receive the "blessing"
        of Protestant ministers and Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa - Buenos Aires, 2006

        The Horror!

        Of all the unthinkable candidates, Jorge Mario Bergoglio is perhaps the worst. Not because he openly professes doctrines against the faith and morals, but because, judging from his work as Archbishop of Buenos Aires, faith and morals seem to have been irrelevant to him.

        A sworn enemy of the Traditional Mass, he has only allowed imitations of it in the hands of declared enemies of the ancient liturgy. He has persecuted every single priest who made an effort to wear a cassock, preach with firmness, or that was simply interested in Summorum Pontificum.

        Famous for his inconsistency (at times, for the unintelligibility of his addresses and homilies), accustomed to the use of coarse, demagogical, and ambiguous expressions, it cannot be said that his magisterium is heterodox, but rather non-existent for how confusing it is.

        His entourage in the Buenos Aires Curia, with the exception of a few clerics, has not been characterized by the virtue of their actions. Several are under grave suspicion of moral misbehavior.

        He has not missed any occasion for holding acts in which he lent his Cathedral to Protestants, Muslims, Jews, and even to partisan groups in the name of an impossible and unnecessary interreligious dialogue. He is famous for his meetings with protestants in the Luna Park arena where, together with preacher of the Pontifical House, Raniero Cantalamessa, he was "blessed" by Protestant ministers, in a common act of worship in which he, in practice, accepted the validity of the "powers" of the TV-pastors.

        This election is incomprehensible: he is not a polyglot, he has no Curial experience, he does not shine for his sanctity, he is loose in doctrine and liturgy, he has not fought against abortion and only very weakly against homosexual "marriage" [approved with practically no opposition from the episcopate], he has no manners to honor the Pontifical Throne. He has never fought for anything else than to remain in positions of power.

        It really cannot be what Benedict wanted for the Church. And he does not seem to have any of the conditions required to continue his work.

        May God help His Church. One can never dismiss, as humanly hard as it may seem, the possibility of a conversion... and, nonetheless, the future terrifies us.

    [See also: Letter of Cardinal Bergoglio to Carmelites regarding the pending approval of "same sex marriage" ]
    Posted by New Catholic at 3/13/2013 08:37:00 PM
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 06:30:35 AM »
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  • Ah-hem....

    Some of the RC comments are unnerving.  This is starting to look apocalyptic....




    Francis in Ma said...

        You guys can try to spin this all you want, Cardinal Bergoglio is a devout Vatican II modernist. He is as "traditional" and as "conservative" as Christoph Schonborn! Yeah, people change, but Bergoglio will have to be totally implanted with another ideological intellect by the Holy Ghost for him to change. I pray for that miracle, but I won't hold my breath.

    Bergoglio is a product of the Vatican II rot which has permeated the Church of Christ for fifty years. Remember, he was elected by two-thirds of the current college of Cardinals. Scary!
        13 March, 2013 20:59



    Tom P. said...

        A local news station here in South Bend, IN, said he is credited with "modernizing what had been one of the most conservative churches in South America". That's not promising...
        13 March, 2013 22:04





    Watcher said...

        A sample of the new Pope's Mass (from 2011):



        13 March, 2013 22:33



     That is the video John Vennari should have posted a link for!



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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 08:17:57 AM »
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  • These RC types have really been kidding themselves.

    How could these people have expected something good to come out of this fiasco of a resignation?  Are their critical faculties damaged?

    What's dangerous is if these "traditionalists," in reaction to a liberal Pope, will put themselves forward as the true representatives of Tradition.

    Offline bowler

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 08:55:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat

        A sample of the new Pope's Mass (from 2011):





    Instead of lifting up the ignorant, they stooped down the mass to the level of a kindergarten singalong. No real man would attend such a joke of a "worship" to God.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 09:47:17 AM »
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  • All this modernizing, the question is? Will it save more souls, less
    souls, or no souls. You be the judge.
    After watching this mass from 2011, the effects will cause more
    traditional minded Catholics to completely turn off from the
    Vatican 2 church.   Many nominal Catholics will just lose the
    faith and drift away into other religions or no religions.
    In other words, the Vatican 2 church may just be filled with
    people of no faith. Just go to mass for the entertainment value.

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 10:18:12 AM »
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  • Last night, I was unsuccessfully trying to describe to my family in North America what an absolute abomination the novus ordo mass is throughout S. America.  You folks don't know modernizing until you've seen what Bergoglio and company have permitted and encouraged.  
    The novus ordo mass in the US and Canada still have some kind of framework and distinct Canon (I'm not talking validity or not, just appearance),  but here it is unrecognizable,  a disrespectful weird mess of novelty, reflected in the attitude and dress of the people and clergy.  It is not Catholic, that I can assuredly say.
    Also, despite common belief, South America is NOT CATHOLIC.  Modernism has choked the life out of the Church very successfully.  The motu proprio is not permitted, and other trad type masses i.e., fssp are near impossible to find, thanks to the open hostility of Bergoglio and the rest of the coven throughout  the continent  (exception: SSPX presence in Argentina and Brazil)  
    So, not surprising, the people have completely forsaken Catholic teaching.
    What a magnificent heritage they have abandoned, with people like Bergoglio at the helm.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 10:28:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    It is not Catholic, that I can assuredly say.
    Also, despite common belief, South America is NOT CATHOLIC.


    Spanish Freemasonry is more intolerant than other kinds.


    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 10:31:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    It is not Catholic, that I can assuredly say.
    Also, despite common belief, South America is NOT CATHOLIC.


    Spanish Freemasonry is more intolerant than other kinds.


    I did not know that.  I learn much from you.

    Offline Santo Subito

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 10:35:04 AM »
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  • As many of the comments point out, the statements in that article are apparently false or greatly exagerrated.

    First, Bergoglio is not an "enemy of the TLM." As this article shows, there are many TLM's under the MP in Argentina:

    http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2013/03/old-rite-mass-in-argentina.html

    Second, he has spoken out strongly against abortion, same sex marriage, euthanasia, contraception.

    Third, he rejected Liberation Theology and is not an adherent.

    That leaves the 3 Trad objections.

    1.) His participating in candle lighting for Hanukah. Why is this a problem? Does anyone honestly think Cardinal Bergoglio practices Judaism or is of Jewish faith? No. He lit a manorah candle to show good will towards the Jews in Argentina and build bridges. So what?

    2.) His outdoor stadium Mass is nothing new. JPII, etc. have had the same. It looked to be for youth. Latin American culture uses drums, guitars, and festive music. Hasn't the Church been for inculturation? I didn't see any irreverent acts by him during the Mass. Besides the activities going on outside where he was, it was a straightforward NO Mass, that cannot be a sin per dogma of the Church since the NO Mass came from the Church.

    3.) He was prayed over by another Catholic priest and Protestant pastors. So what? Can Protestants not pray for the Pope? Can they not ask God's blessing on the Pope? The Bible tells us to "bless the Lord." Can we not bless a Pope?

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 10:57:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: Santo Subito
    First, Bergoglio is not an "enemy of the TLM." As this article shows, there are many TLM's under the MP in Argentina


    Most of those TLMs are hybrid Masses. Furthermore, that article admits he wasn't even enthusiastic about the TLM!

    Quote
    Second, he has spoken out strongly against abortion, same sex marriage, euthanasia, contraception.


    That's swell and dandy, but you Novus Ordites make being pro-life the only Dogma of your faith. There's more to the Catholic Faith than being pro-life!

    Quote
    Third, he rejected Liberation Theology and is not an adherent.


    According to Wikipedia.

    Quote
    His participating in candle lighting for Hanukah. Why is this a problem? Does anyone honestly think Cardinal Bergoglio practices Judaism or is of Jewish faith? No. He lit a manorah candle to show good will towards the Jews in Argentina and build bridges. So what?


    St. John Chrysostom says that anyone who goes into a synagogue and prays with Jews shows that they don't truly love God. It's really blasphemous to do such a thing.

    Quote
    His outdoor stadium Mass is nothing new. JPII, etc. have had the same. It looked to be for youth. Latin American culture uses drums, guitars, and festive music. Hasn't the Church been for inculturation? I didn't see any irreverent acts by him during the Mass. Besides the activities going on outside where he was, it was a straightforward NO Mass, that cannot be a sin per dogma of the Church since the NO Mass came from the Church.


    Yeah, nothing new. They're typical among modernists!

    Quote
    He was prayed over by another Catholic priest and Protestant pastors. So what? Can Protestants not pray for the Pope? Can they not ask God's blessing on the Pope? The Bible tells us to "bless the Lord." Can we not bless a Pope?


    Were any of the pre-Vatican II Popes prayed over by Protestants?


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Rorate Caeli re Bergoglio
    « Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 01:38:38 AM »
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  • This thread seems to point to one thing very clearly.  What we have here is
    a new Pope who is very controversial.  

    But I do not see the word "controversy" or "controversial" anywhere in the
    MSM in his regard.  Do you?  

    That says a lot for CI.  

    You're getting an objective view here, thanks to the open forum where the
    voices of true traditionally-minded Catholics are not drowned out by the
    liberal madding crowd.  


    After all that, I'm hoping that Our Lady can work a great miracle with Pope
    Francis.  The best I can see, he does not show any overt heresy or penchant
    for abuse or pride.  He seems to be a kind of 'available victim' to take on
    the maledictions of the devil.  He has already said a few things that we have
    not heard post-Conciliar popes say, rather in defense of Tradition.  

    There are two ways of looking at all these things.  You can be a die-hard
    pessimist, looking for rot in all the wrong places, or you can step back and
    take in the wide perspective of what's really going on.  And you don't have
    to be a flaming liberal to at least hear what everyone has to say.  

    Pope Francis seems to me to be the kind of guy that Our Lady needs to
    write large her words of true reform:  


    "Behold:  
    my Son makes all things new."



    And then, as at Fatima in 1917, she would stand back and let the miracle happen.




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