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Offline John Grace

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Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
« on: September 07, 2011, 05:41:07 AM »
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  • Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism: Robert Sungenis
    http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/features/Response%20to%20the%20SSPX%20Press%20Release%20on%20Geocentrism.pdf

    PRESS RELEASE FROM USA DISTRICT
    PLATTE CITY, MO (8-30-2011) A recent news report implied that the Priestly Society of St. Pius X promotes the scientific theory of Geo-centrism as a Catholic teaching based upon the Bible.
    The SSPX holds no such position.

    The press release can be seen on the U.S.A. District's website at http://www.sspx.org/.  The remaining portion of the press release may be viewed at http://www.sspx.org/district_news/sspx_and_the_solar_system_8-30-2011.htm .


    Dr. Sungenis issued a very thorough reply to the un-authored SSPX press release, but which was presumably issued by authority of the SSPX District Superior for the United States, Rev. Fr. Arnaud Rostand.  

    The reply from Dr. Sugenis may be seen at www.galileowaswrong.blogspot.com.

    Offline Cristera

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 07:46:52 AM »
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  • Thanks John Grace. Very interesting.

    Since I read Dr. Sungenis book I'm a convinced Geocentrist and I teach my children Geocentrism as well.



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 08:58:20 AM »
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  • The SSPX doesn't hold Geocentrism as a dogmatic fact apparently, but that's generally the side they believe is likely true. And they're probably right.

    Offline PereJoseph

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 05:27:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    The SSPX doesn't hold Geocentrism as a dogmatic fact apparently, but that's generally the side they believe is likely true. And they're probably right.


    That's rather politic of them, don't you think ?  :scratchchin:

    Offline JPaul

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #4 on: September 09, 2011, 08:15:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    The SSPX doesn't hold Geocentrism as a dogmatic fact apparently, but that's generally the side they believe is likely true. And they're probably right.



    Which means, they don't believe it.  Speculating on the likelyhood of something is not a firm belief.  And it seems that they pass their unbelief on to others as well.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 08:52:33 AM »
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  • The Society's mission is to preserve the Catholic priesthood and Tradition. Not to espouse official viewpoints on historical events or scientific theories. It was a good move to get out of the business altogether. It would only serve to distract from the Society's true mission and give ample fodder for their detractors.

    If Sungenis wants to explain his position on why he is a geocentrist, that is fine. But I can't understand the notion that the Society is doing something wrong by refusing to take a stand on an issue beyond their competence. Namely astronomy.

    Offline twiceborn

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 09:10:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    The Society's mission is to preserve the Catholic priesthood and Tradition. Not to espouse official viewpoints on historical events or scientific theories. It was a good move to get out of the business altogether. It would only serve to distract from the Society's true mission and give ample fodder for their detractors.

    If Sungenis wants to explain his position on why he is a geocentrist, that is fine. But I can't understand the notion that the Society is doing something wrong by refusing to take a stand on an issue beyond their competence. Namely astronomy.


    Completely agree, I think it is a wise move by the SSPX. The whole thing about Geocentrism and Evolution is a massive distraction from things that actually do matter.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 09:23:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: twiceborn
    The whole thing about Geocentrism and Evolution is a massive distraction from things that actually do matter.


    While geocentrism is not true in any meaningful physical sense, nor is it essential to believe in the fixity of the Earth in the sense that an ignorant person imagines as the reason for its seeming stability, it is essential to challenge the evolutionary view of the origin of man, (and it really follows from that one cannot very well believe in the evolution of animals without seriously violating principles of common sense) which is directly contrary to the view of special Creation in the Bible.

    If the SSPX starts saying it doesn't matter if you believe in evolution or not - you can see that as a definite sign of incipient modernism.



    Offline Telesphorus

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 09:27:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Not to espouse official viewpoints on historical events or scientific theories.


    If a "scientific theory" is incompatible with the Catholic Faith then Catholic teaching authority must say so.  

    While it is certainly not required to give particular views on most historical events, (although they certainly seem to insist on the validity of the election of these post-conciliar Popes - though they don't really respect their canonizations!) it is absolutely necessary that Catholics be given a realistic view of history that is in accord with Catholic principles and that is in continuity with the past views that the Catholic Church has taught.  In particular about Freemasonry.

    Were the SSPX to take the view that it has no position about the historical role of Freemasonry - that would be an outrageous betrayal of the Catholic view of history that would be a sign of leading people deliberately into ignorance.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 09:30:43 AM »
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  • I agree geocentrism and evolution are different. With evolution there are core Catholic principles at stake regarding original sin and only two parents of the human race. As Pius XII pointed out, there are certain evolutionary views which are non-starters, such as polygenism.

    I don't think it is beyond Catholic teaching to believe that, over time, some adaptations can develop WITHIN species. In that micro-evolution sense, there isn't much problem.

    The problem comes with Darwiniacs who insist their theory that species evolve into other species is fact when they can't even provide one transitionary fossil (much less the millions that should exist if the theory is true). Evolution is their dogma and they will defend it with blind will through intimidation, ridicule, and high-sounding scientific jargon. The same with man made "climate change". It is a theory that they are promoting as fact because it fits their agenda.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 09:34:26 AM »
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  • Tele,

    I'm not saying the Society is bound not to discuss history or secular affairs. Certainly they can talk about historical happenings such as the French Revolution, etc. as pertains to spiritual purposes and the Church.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 09:37:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: twiceborn
    The whole thing about Geocentrism and Evolution is a massive distraction from things that actually do matter.


    While geocentrism is not true in any meaningful physical sense, nor is it essential to believe in the fixity of the Earth in the sense that an ignorant person imagines as the reason for its seeming stability, it is essential to challenge the evolutionary view of the origin of man, (and it really follows from that one cannot very well believe in the evolution of animals without seriously violating principles of common sense) which is directly contrary to the view of special Creation in the Bible.

    If the SSPX starts saying it doesn't matter if you believe in evolution or not - you can see that as a definite sign of incipient modernism.



    The SSPX never said it doesn't matter whether you believe in evolution or not.

    Offline twiceborn

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 10:21:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    ...it is essential to challenge the evolutionary view of the origin of man, which is directly contrary to the view of special Creation in the Bible.


    In truth, I am very much inclined to agree with you but I am not entirely convinced that this is in fact the case. Would you mind discussing the issue more fully? I don't mean debate or anything of the sort (I hold no strong opinion on the matter), I just would like to explore more/understand the reasoning behind this.

    I could start a new thread or perhaps it can continue here.

    Offline Caraffa

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 01:59:28 PM »
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  • Quote
    So Catholics should not use the Bible to assert explanations about natural science


    Leaving Geo-centrism aside, this statement could be problematic as it promotes secularism and makes scripture (like the existentialists also do), only a "spiritual" book and also implies that the natural realm is autonomous from the supernatural.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline Matthew

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    Response to the SSPX Press Release on Geocentrism
    « Reply #14 on: September 09, 2011, 02:05:30 PM »
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  • Sometimes being "neutral" is equivalent to helping the side of evil.

    One can't always be "neutral".

    When society is drifting downward, one cannot be "neutral" without rubber-stamping the downward trend!

    Just like a car rolling down a hill can't be in "neutral" unless it wants to end up in an ever lower position.
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