Author Topic: Religious Liberty (Read 1931 times)

Belloc · « **on:** April 06, 2010, 09:43:33 AM »

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/feature-articles/Feature_-_Fr._Brian_hαɾɾιson_v._John_Salza_on_Religious_Liberty.pdf

Caminus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:18:02 PM »

First half is very good. John has clearly acquired the wisdom of the Church where many have failed.

Lybus · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:20:21 PM »

Yes the parts I read were quite good, at least from what I gathered.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2010, 02:15:14 PM »

Religious liberty is the liberty of damnation as a Pope (Pius X?) said. It is the permission to ruin yourself.
But one objection they bring up is whether or we can wish somebody good or make him happy/saved against his own will?
When we were children our parents wished us health and success so they took us to doctor and forced us to study even if we hated it. But some say that for adults it is different. That is if a man wants to be sick you cannot force him to be healthy, and if he wants to choose a lowly job, you can't make him a CEO against his will.
Once a lady told a man to stop his daughter from dressing immodestly. The man got angry and said that he and his family have chosen to go to hell, and that it was no one's bussiness. :devil2:

Belloc · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2010, 02:16:44 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

Once a lady told a man to stop his daughter from dressing immodestly. The man got angry and said that he and his family have chosen to go to hell, and that it was no one's bussiness. :devil2:

yikes, he either got really angry and a bit illogical, or possessed/oppresed.......yikes... :devil2:

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2010, 05:04:01 PM »

There will be no recovery in the Church until DH, and
the rest of vatican 2 is repealed.

Alexandria · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2010, 05:09:41 PM »

I've been reading some old issues of Fr. Feeney's "The Point" from 1952. Hard to believe this religious liberty idea was already very wide-spread. As well as ecuмenism. The Church was already far gone before Vatican II. With the way things were already going, DH was shoe-in. No wonder why the Church fell to pieces so rapidly after 1965.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2010, 05:39:49 PM »

Spouse of Jesus said:

Quote

Once a lady told a man to stop his daughter from dressing immodestly. The man got angry and said that he and his family have chosen to go to hell, and that it was no one's bussiness. :devil2:

My uncle said that to me once, but at least he left his family out of it.

Lycorth · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2010, 06:15:52 PM »

Religious liberty is overrated. Secularism has only produced a secular society; there will be no Catholic society again until Catholicism becomes the guiding rule of government again.

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2010, 08:43:21 PM »

Religious liberty is merely the freedom to commit intellectual and cultural, as well as spiritual, ѕυιcιdє. Last I checked ѕυιcιdє is illegal in the eyes of God and man. :wink:

Say, Lycorth, you Austrian? That's the Cross of the Austrian Christian Workers Party.

Lycorth · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2010, 09:06:02 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

Say, Lycorth, you Austrian? That's the Cross of the Austrian Christian Workers Party.

No (well, maybe a small amount on my father's mother's side); I'm almost wholly of Polish extraction with a small amount of Russian ancestry as well, born and raised in America.

But the policies of the Vaterländische Front - beyond admirable and in large part, just what the West needs right now, wouldn't you agree?

Belloc · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2010, 10:02:06 AM »

May Dolfuss rest in peace.....he was a great man in a bad time.

Classiccom · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2010, 10:18:16 AM »

Quote from: Lycorth

Religious liberty is overrated. Secularism has only produced a secular society; there will be no Catholic society again until Catholicism becomes the guiding rule of government again.

====================================

Sounds like Christianity in reverse. If you want to impose Club Infallible upon any country's population, yes you would need government rule. True Christianity was able to rise up and defeat the Roman Empire.

I just heard an interesting talk about the law of reciprocity. If you give something to somebody, they usually feel an obligation to pay back this act of kindness. I am sure this had a lot to do with the establishment of Christianity. Everybody knows that the government is a cruel master. On the other hand its pretty hard to be mad at people who are the ones looking after and helping the down and out. So the masters of real world politic understand that the hand outs of socialism and communism are much more powerful than pseudo Christianity that got stuck in the quagmire of non stop theology arguments and forgot the basics of helping those in most need.

"Only I can help you" - Club Infallible approved Fatima.

I say its time to put Christianity in the correct direction . Jesus worked the streets and worked man to man. Top down Ivory tower of babel rule in both church and government is a poor substitute. Communism = complete lack of divine spark of personal initiative and follows the dear leader in a most comatose manner. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Club Infallible has inadvertently given permission to the Devil (vision to Pope Leo XIII) to play by the same rules. The King of the World antiChrist simply wants to play the same game as Pope Pius IX, Mr. Infallible the 1st. Instead of a list of prohibited books, we now have a world where publishers will not print any truth that is dangerous to the Satanic empire. Pretty soon the internet will be totally controlled also. This is just one example of the whole spectrum of mind and soul enslavement.

I am not an anarchist, but a Pope has got to know his limitations.
A Christian has got to defend the Christian faith and keep hope alive. I see revival of the Church when they take all its possessions and Christians go back to spreading the word door to door.

Lycorth · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2010, 10:28:50 AM »

Quote from: Classiccom

====================================

Sounds like Christianity in reverse. If you want to impose Club Infallible upon any country's population, yes you would need government rule. True Christianity was able to rise up and defeat the Roman Empire.

I just heard an interesting talk about the law of reciprocity. If you give something to somebody, they usually feel an obligation to pay back this act of kindness. I am sure this had a lot to do with the establishment of Christianity. Everybody knows that the government is a cruel master. On the other hand its pretty hard to be mad at people who are the ones looking after and helping the down and out. So the masters of real world politic understand that the hand outs of socialism and communism are much more powerful than pseudo Christianity that got stuck in the quagmire of non stop theology arguments and forgot the basics of helping those in most need.

"Only I can help you" - Club Infallible approved Fatima.

I say its time to put Christianity in the correct direction . Jesus worked the streets and worked man to man. Top down Ivory tower of babel rule in both church and government is a poor substitute. Communism = complete lack of divine spark of personal initiative and follows the dear leader in a most comatose manner. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Club Infallible has inadvertently given permission to the Devil (vision to Pope Leo XIII) to play by the same rules. The King of the World antiChrist simply wants to play the same game as Pope Pius IX, Mr. Infallible the 1st. Instead of a list of prohibited books, we now have a world where publishers will not print any truth that is dangerous to the Satanic empire. Pretty soon the internet will be totally controlled also. This is just one example of the whole spectrum of mind and soul enslavement.

I am not an anarchist, but a Pope has got to know his limitations.
A Christian has got to defend the Christian faith and keep hope alive. I see revival of the Church when they take all its possessions and Christians go back to spreading the word door to door.

Who is this "they" who is supposed to take the Church's possessions?

Facts are facts, and the facts are that a natural authoritarian government guided by Catholic principles and held in check by a vigorous and Traditional Church is the best political system for human beings. More people were united under the Cross than ever have been under democracy and libertarianism. We don't need more of the same.

Also, the Roman Empire was defeating itself. Christianity came too late to save it.

Matthew · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2010, 10:31:59 AM »

That has to be a heresy, Classicom. I don't have time to figure out what council condemned that belief --

namely, that the Church should be an invisible society and/or without property or means.

No, St. Thomas taught that material things are necessary for the practice of virtue -- to live a virtuous life. That is why we don't all reject material things. We are better off with a certain amount of them.

Your idea sounds like a knee-jerk reaction, to me. You see gluttony all around you, so you propose that no one eat any more food. But guess what? Then you die, and you can't practice virtue and gain merit any longer. That isn't what God wants. He wants us to be moderate in our use of food.

Same for material things.

Matthew