Hello, I'm new here! Single devout Catholic here, becoming a secular Franciscan. I love God and the Virgin and saints, and I'm very traditional.

Well, I've met my dream man, also a traditional Catholic, and we are discussing engagement. I really love him.

We are both aware of the church's teachings regarding marriage. However he seems to be more "laid back" about the rules. Hopefully others understand what I mean by this. I'm worried about the validity of marriage if he doesn't obey the rules (because I can't control his actions).

Can anyone offer some insight?

Hello, I'm new here! Single devout Catholic here, becoming a secular Franciscan. I love God and the Virgin and saints, and I'm very traditional.

Well, I've met my dream man, also a traditional Catholic, and we are discussing engagement. I really love him.

We are both aware of the church's teachings regarding marriage. However he seems to be more "laid back" about the rules. Hopefully others understand what I mean by this. I'm worried about the validity of marriage if he doesn't obey the rules (because I can't control his actions).

Can anyone offer some insight?

Little Flower,

Life is a continual war over the battle for our souls...

I have had a few men who discussed marriage with me at one point or another, and at one point or another became very attached to them.  Yet, not being strong about Faith and Morals in the end utterly destroyed most of the courtships before they went very far.  All of them were traditional Catholic men, but had a problem with caving in to one problem or another.  I generally tried to help them change, but that really is not a healthy way to have a courtship, and often does not work in the long run.

One man returned to the novus ordo, another stopped frequenting the Sacraments, another clung on to a heretical group, etc.

Even though this man may seem like your dream man (the same thing happened to me at one point or another), if he does not hold up to the standards of the Church you really must let go of him.  And the sooner you do so the better and safer it will be for him and you.  For, the more one gets attached the easier it is to not give in to right judgment on a spur of the moment.  This is the reason why the saints tell us to avoid dangerous occasions.

I am sure that you truly wish to do the will of God, and I know how hard this must be for you.  I know what it is like to have one's heart set on one's "dream person" and then discover that they are not the model you once pictured them to be.

I shall be praying for you that you make the right choice.

Please keep me also in your prayers and keep me posted!

Keep fighting the good fight and may God bless you!

Well, I've met my dream man, also a traditional Catholic...

...However he seems to be more "laid back" about the rules. Hopefully others understand what I mean by this. I'm worried about the validity of marriage if he doesn't obey the rules (because I can't control his actions).

If he is really a traditional Catholic (i.e., a real, serious Catholic) he shouldn't be playing fast-and-loose with the "rules". Especially surrounding the reproductive functions. Birth control of any kind is a mortal sin. So is fornication, masturbation, and adultery.

If he has problems with any of those things, that is a red flag and you need to find a man who is more manly -- who has self-control and isn't a slave to his passions.

If you give in for any reason (emotion, love, pity, trust, etc.) he will eventually betray you, when he finds that he can't control himself around that pretty young secretary either.

Lack of mortification (self-control) is lack of self-control. It's a horrible personality trait for a man to have -- and a huge warning flag for a prospective spouse.

Lack of self control makes a man a boy. He can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar. He'd rather have a few M&M's now than a whole king-size bag if he waits 5 minutes. That's understandable for a 5 year old, who is naturally selfish (due to Original Sin) and hasn't had much time to build up virtue -- but it's quite tragic for a 25 or 30 year old to be that undisciplined.

Thank you to all who have responded and for prayers (and please continue to support me here, I need it, thank you, thank you, God Bless you all, pax tecuм!)

Especially surrounding the reproductive functions. Birth control of any kind is a mortal sin.

This is the issue. And what you say scares me. He says he would be faithful but when it comes to the church's teachings on that particular thing, it is his sin and I have no say.

The thing is, I'm scared about this because in not being able to influence him on this, I hope I would not be sinning in this even though I do not agree whatsoever, be it that I marry him and make the Sacrament.

I'm very gentle, and being a Franciscan I want to sow love and pardon and be kind always. But I don't want to get heart broken, either. The mention of adultery scares me. I don't want to get hurt.

I do love this man very much.

I think you see clearly the choice before you. Who do you love more, God or this man?

This man says he'd knowingly spend his married life in an ongoing state of mortal sin without concern for his own salvation or the impact that would have on you.

Thank God profusely for allowing you to see this for what it is before you commit a lifetime to this man, and then move on.

I love God more than anything.

But please, Dear Friend, can you help me understand a little more? My heart is in love, so I need some help. When in love it is difficult to discern. At least for me because I love so much and so deeply.

If he says it is his sin, is this true? It would not be mine? For I would pray so much for him. And then he would confess, and perhaps the priest would help him? Maybe I am really trying to see that he could see here, and understand, because I hope "to understand, than to be understood"

I am hoping, because he is a devout Catholic, that he may understand. But then I hope I am not being naive.

I'm worried about the validity of marriage if he doesn't obey the rules (because I can't control his actions).

Now that you clarified what you mean by "doesn't obey the rules", I can be more direct and specific.

You said the issue was birth control.

That is actually one of the things a proper Catholic marriage preparation will screen for.

A priest would sin if he consented to witness to an invalid marriage (which would be "annulment bait", and basically allowing a couple to pretend they are married, but they would actually be fornicating), just like a bishop would commit sin by knowingly ordaining a bad candidate for the priesthood.

To fulfill his duties in this matter, the priest has to look for all the things that might invalidate the marriage:

Do you intend for marriage to be exclusive?
Do you intend to have the children God sends you? Do you know that birth control is a mortal sin?
Do you know that marriage is for life?
Is anyone forcing you to get married? (a related question is, "Are you pregnant?")
Are you both of sound mind and (reasonably) good health? Is either one of you sterile?
Are either one of you misrepresenting yourself to the other (saying you're heir to a great fortune, for example, if you're actually unemployed; or claiming to be a person you're not.)

Those are things that can invalidate a marriage.

Because certain things affect the very nature of the marriage contract. Marriage is a voluntary, two-party contract for life, in which a man and a woman give each other exclusive rights over their bodies, promising to live in common and beget children (however many God sends) and raise them Catholic.

That's why you can't have coercion, lack of the use of reason, or a false notion of marriage (birth control, possibility of divorce later).

But interestingly, other things do not necessarily affect the marriage contract -- at least the priest during marriage prep won't ask about them:

Problems with anger
grudges
addictions, past drug use
employment record
prayer life
criminal record
past murders
etc.

These things are important for YOU to know about, but they don't affect the validity of a marriage. Intent to use birth control is actually able to invalidate the marriage from day one.

I agree with others who said that loving people is one thing, marrying is another. If you feel called to a special life of prayer and sacrifice, perhaps you should look into becoming a religious sister.

As I tell young men about the priesthood, the same applies to female religious: namely, that religious sisters aren't a bunch of "asɛҳuąƖs" or "lesbians" somehow defective in normal female feelings or hormones. They are normal females, giving, loving, but they have chosen to give themselves to God in His service, and love countless people by teaching, praying, and sacrificing for them.

I will go so far as to say this: if the man you describe is the best man God ever sends you, then He obviously doesn't intend for you to be married. But that is a "worst case scenario"; there is no need to give up yet. It is more likely that God will send someone better in response to your fidelity.

I know this is VERY hard to take; I've been there before myself. The women on here can handle this better than I can (a fellow woman is better to talk to, for this sort of issue). But being faithful to God is paramount, and you will be surprised how God will take care of you when you place Him first.

Apparently a lot of the horror stories people have posted on CathInfo about bad marriages took place in the past, posted by members who are no longer here. We've had LOTS of stories in the past from hapless men and women who are now stuck in bad marriages. I would be careful.

I would especially beware letting pity enter in to your decision about marriage. I actually knew a young man who came very close to marrying a very messed up woman. Fortunately for him, it didn't work out. The man actually told his family members who objected, "I can't just cast her off; if I don't marry her, then who will?" and things like, "You want me to judge her?" Seriously, he said that! Just from what I knew of the woman, I'm sure he would have been miserable, but in the worst kind of way: the way that costs you your faith and/or your soul.

I second what Songbird said: Love, be charitable, have mercy all you want -- but only marry a good solid Catholic!

I love God more than anything.

But please, Dear Friend, can you help me understand a little more? My heart is in love, so I need some help. When in love it is difficult to discern. At least for me because I love so much and so deeply.

If he says it is his sin, is this true? It would not be mine? For I would pray so much for him. And then he would confess, and perhaps the priest would help him? Maybe I am really trying to see that he could see here, and understand, because I hope "to understand, than to be understood"

I am hoping, because he is a devout Catholic, that he may understand. But then I hope I am not being naive.

Dear LittleFlowers,
Your sincerity is not in doubt and your sentiments are very touching...
However, because you are already aware of his intention to contracept, therefore denying God's Will and defying His Commands, you are putting both his and your salvation at risk. You are meant for someone better than him, so do not make yourself a life of misery.
May God bless you!

LittleFlowers,

You have received some excellent, solid advice from people here. I agree with everything that they said.

I will add one more thing, in response to a statement you made. You said you are asking for a sign. Perhaps you should have worded it as "I'm asking for another sign," for God, in his generosity and love for you, has already given you a very clear sign. This sin that your beloved is holding on to is grievous. He loves himself more than he loves you or God. A husband is called to love his wife sacrificially, as Christ loves the Church. Christ paid the greatest sacrafice of all, by laying down his life for us. So should the husband do for his wife. This man is not willing to do this for you.

I don't doubt that your love for God is sincere. But I beg of you to examine yourself here. Will you bind yourself to a man who hates God's commands? Will you say to God, "I know this man shows contempt for you, but I am going to unite in this holy sacrament with him anyway?" God bless you for your tenderheartedness, it's a rare thing these days. Your tender heart will find much more joy, contentedness and reward if you lean your fear of hurting someone towards God. You will hurt God more than you will this man. It boils down to you rejecting one or the other. I whole heartedly agree with Stubborn that you will be an accessory to his sin if you do this.

God in his wisdom made man the head, and the woman the heart. As a woman, you have the task of choosing a man that you can respect and follow. Knowing this, if you unite in marriage with a man that you cannot follow, you are setting yourself up for a life full of misery. If you marry him and he does not change one of two things usually happens: You lose the faith just as he has, or you get wrapped up in bitterness towards him and are unable to carry out your duty in marriage which is to respect your husband.

I'm sorry to paint such a grim picture. Like MaterDominici said, you see cleary what is before you. Don't be foolish. If you are, you will only have yourself to blame. God bless you, I will pray for you!