Author Topic: Regarding the Immaculate Conception? and Assumption? (Read 1383 times)

gobosox91 · « **on:** May 14, 2012, 05:41:37 PM »

If the wages of sin is death, then Mary never died. That's what I've been told. However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph? But they obviously died (John of course) so why is there discrepancy?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2012, 05:52:23 PM »

Quote from: gobosox91

If the wages of sin is death, then Mary never died.

That's a heretical view of the original nature of mankind. Catholics do not believe that immortality was instrinsic to the nature of man, but was a gift of God to our first parents. Hence the necessity of expulsion from the garden, to be sent away from the Tree of Life.

Quote

That's what I've been told. However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph? But they obviously died (John of course) so why is there discrepancy?

There's no discrepancy.

Quit spamming the board, stick to one thread with your incessant questions. If you wish to know the answers to these questions read up on them. It is highly doubtful that you are curious, on the contrary, you appear to be here to criticize Catholic doctrine with rhetorical questions in a never ending series of spam threads.

You really should be banned if you continue.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:00:18 PM »

That is to say, the gift was lost to mankind at the Fall from Grace.

The Redemption of Mankind by Our Lord has taken away spiritual death, not physical death, until the Resurrection of the Dead.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:04:35 PM »

How many people here have told you, gobosox, to create ONE thread for all your questions? Yet you continue to ignore those requests and instead keep making more threads.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:04:53 PM »

boxsox:

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However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph?

I never heard these two were sinless. Maybe I should get out more.

Also, who is this we you are referring to?

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:06:32 PM »

Quote from: gobosox91

However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph?

Where did you get that from? Catholics don't believe that.

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:28:28 PM »

Quote from: gobosox91

If the wages of sin is death, then Mary never died. That's what I've been told. However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph? But they obviously died (John of course) so why is there discrepancy?

Once again, I beseech you to peruse prayerfully and with great care the material that has been presented to you, such as this thread: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-Blessed-Virgin-Mary-the-Second-Eve

And here is more:

From Cardinal Schuster's The Sacramentary (Liber Sacramentorum): Historical and Liturgical Notes on the Roman Missal, (Vol. III; trans. Arthur Levelis-Marke; New York: Benziger Brothers, 1927), here is a commentary upon the Mass for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:30:49 PM »

The Greek Church also commemorates the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, as will be seen in these pages taken from the Byzantine Missal for Sundays and Feast Days with Rites of Sacraments, and Various Offices and Prayers published at Birmingham, Alabama, by St. George's R. C. Byzantine Church in 1958, (having been printed at Tournai, Belgium, by Société Saint Jean l' Evangéliste, Desclée & Cie).

For more on the excellencies of the Immaculate Mother of God as extolled by the Byzantines, please consult this thread: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-Acathist-Hymn-Office-of-Praise-of-the-Mother-of-God

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »

The Protestant heretics and modern-day "evangelicals" lie when they say that such dogmas as the Immaculate Conception and the corporeal Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary are "Papist fabrications," as the Churches of both the East and the Latin West testify in their liturgical books which record sacred tradition that can be ultimately traced to the unwritten preaching of the Apostles themselves.

For more information on the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, please consult this thread: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Happy-Feast-Day-of-the-Assumption-of-the-Blessed-Virgin-Mary

alaric · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2012, 11:51:20 AM »

Quote from: gobosox91

If the wages of sin is death, then Mary never died. That's what I've been told. However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph? But they obviously died (John of course) so why is there discrepancy?

That's spiritual death. And Blessed Mother was granted a special grace, it wasn't that she was just "born" sinless.

Consider the fact also that Enoch and Elijah never expeirenced physical death either.

I don't know where you get SJB or St joesph never sinned.

Like others stated, the way you frame your questions, your disrespect of the BVM and the saints is coming off quite trollish.

If you're not getting the answers from traditional Catholicism that suits your Sola Scriptura worldview, you need to go back to one of the over thirty thousand protestant sects that you came from.

Malleus 01 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2012, 11:24:19 AM »

Quote from: gobosox91

If the wages of sin is death, then Mary never died. That's what I've been told. However, don't we also believe John the Baptist never sinned? And Joseph? But they obviously died (John of course) so why is there discrepancy?

You quite simply are not a Catholic. In this one post you have just proven it.

There are schools of thought regarding actual sin and the propensity to sin brought on by Original Sin from which The Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved. You make no distinction between Actual Sin and Original Sin.

St John the Baptist and St Joseph were not conceived without Original Sin as is the case with the Blessed Virgin Mary , meaning she is not under the punishments due for the Sin of Adam.

So you then say that - Therefore "Mary Never Died". The Blessed Virgin Mary still has free will. Whatsoever the will of GOD is - she conforms her will to by use of her Free Will. Therefore - The Blessed Virgin Mary could have chosen to die as a penance. Our Lord accepted Death in a similar manner - to comply with the Will of GOD. Why is it so hard for you Prots to accept the fact that As Jesus freely chose to Die in compliance to the Will of GOD that the Blessed Virgin Mary couldnt do the same?

Pax