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Author Topic: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka  (Read 4002 times)

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Offline ByzCat3000

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Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2019, 11:53:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on May 18, 2019, 09:34:26 PM
    If Francis can be wrong about faith and morals, why not Pope Leo?
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, that encyclical *could* be wrong, technically, but I don't see why it would be, as the reasoning behind it is completely sound, and to affirm the opposite opinion would be to say you can validly ordain a sacerdotal priest while intending to ordain a Calvinist minister.  I used to be a Calvinist, the difference between what a Calvinist Anglican would see as a "priest" and what we see it as is the difference between night and day.  This isn't weaponized ambiguity, this is straight up different conceptions, outright, explicitly, and at times (particularly under Edward VI) Calvinism is where the Anglican Church was at.  
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #31 on: May 20, 2019, 12:11:48 PM »
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    • So if some Anglican preacher claims there was a Eucharistic miracle (before the "miracle" is confirmed by the Anglican church, never mind the Catholic church) then we should immediately accept it as a miracle that confirms the validity of the Anglican service?
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #32 on: May 20, 2019, 01:26:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on May 20, 2019, 12:11:48 PM
    So if some Anglican preacher claims there was a Eucharistic miracle (before the "miracle" is confirmed by the Anglican church, never mind the Catholic church) then we should immediately accept it as a miracle that confirms the validity of the Anglican service?
    👍 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #33 on: May 20, 2019, 02:14:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on May 20, 2019, 12:11:48 PM
    So if some Anglican preacher claims there was a Eucharistic miracle (before the "miracle" is confirmed by the Anglican church, never mind the Catholic church) then we should immediately accept it as a miracle that confirms the validity of the Anglican service?
    Check out the image of the "miracle" you're referring to:
    http://www.nwaanglican.org/eucharistic-miracle-.html

    Looks to me like a reflection of a ceiling light.

    Catholics are not required to believe even fully-Church-approved apparitions. I think we can be skeptical of supposed miracles that lack anywhere near that level of investigation and approval.
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #34 on: May 20, 2019, 03:19:05 PM »
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    • Quote
    Catholics are not required to believe even fully-Church-approved apparitions. I think we can be skeptical of supposed miracles that lack anywhere near that level of investigation and approval.

    We trads have a right to be in denial
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #35 on: May 20, 2019, 04:20:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on May 20, 2019, 12:11:48 PM
    So if some Anglican preacher claims there was a Eucharistic miracle (before the "miracle" is confirmed by the Anglican church, never mind the Catholic church) then we should immediately accept it as a miracle that confirms the validity of the Anglican service?
    I'm still skeptical, but if it was your run of the mill Church of England priest (ie. holy orders tainted by the line of Edward VI) I'd *definitively* disbelieve it because I don't see *any way* those priests could be valid, just by sheer logic.  

    If you're talking about some Anglican priest who got his orders from Old Catholics (I've heard this is the case for Continuing Anglicans, which I believe would be where that alleged Eucharistic miracle took place) I'm still certainly skeptical, but such orders could be valid without contradicting Leo XIII
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #36 on: May 21, 2019, 10:58:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Regina on May 19, 2019, 01:28:30 AM
    In Plano, Texas, there was a Russian Orthodox monastery run by the ex-Catholic priest, Father Greene who later committed ѕυιcιdє.

    He faked a myrrh-bearing icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary to draw boys into his monastery where he would molest them.

    Beware of the miraculous.
    So also said St John of the Cross
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #37 on: May 21, 2019, 11:04:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on May 20, 2019, 12:11:48 PM
    So if some Anglican preacher claims there was a Eucharistic miracle (before the "miracle" is confirmed by the Anglican church, never mind the Catholic church) then we should immediately accept it as a miracle that confirms the validity of the Anglican service?
    You do not have to believe in any of these 'miracles.' 
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    Offline Cera

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    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #38 on: June 03, 2019, 03:57:49 PM »
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    • Inquiring minds want to know:
    http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Sokolka1.pdf

    On January 7, 2009, the sample of the Host was taken and examined independently by two professionals in histopathology at the University of Medicine of Białystok. They issued a common declaration which states: ‘The sample sent for evaluation looks like myocar-dial tissue. In our opinion, of all the tissues of living organisms this is the one that resembles it the most.’5. The Commission has noted that the analyzed Host is the same one that has been moved from the sacristy to the tabernacle in the chapel of the rectory.
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    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline donkath

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #39 on: June 04, 2019, 02:06:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on May 19, 2019, 12:37:36 AM
    The Holy Spirit goes where it wills, not where we tell it.  
    All your posts show  no need for applying the gift of the discernment of the spirit.
    Extract from passage of Fr. John Hardon S.J
    I might begin by observing that the full rendering of this statement is "Discernment of Spirits", implying a plurality and especially implying a distinction between one kind of spirit and another. We know from both the teaching of the Church and by now our own experience that serving God and following Christ is not all just a straight, easy, smooth path. It involves by its very definition, and Christ went out of His way to impress us, the fact that it involves conflict. The conflict, moreover, is not only with or within ourselves or with the world with human beings outside of us; but also and mainly for our purpose a conflict with the evil spirits. We further know on faith that the evil spirit, while he cannot, and God will never permit him to, coerce our wills, he can surely test or tempt the weaknesses we have. He then can exploit our passions. He can most certainly use other human beings, as he often does, to lead us into temptation.  
    Full article

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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline donkath

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    Re: Regarding the Alleged Euchristic Miracle at Sokolka
    « Reply #40 on: June 04, 2019, 02:18:49 AM »
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    • 1:Only the Church can determine if the miracle is a) a fraud, if not then b) from heaven or from hell. All we lay people can do is guess and give opinions - and of course petition Rome to investigate - which these days is futile by any measure.

    This is so true it is set in concrete.   Because in these days where it is futile to petition Rome it tells us emphatically that the Church has already given us all the information/teaching/means necessary to discern the spirits.   We do not need any eucharistic miracles except Transubstantiation.    An unconfirmed miracle remains unconfirmed..cannot be 'open to belief'- ergo - subject closed!

    ..
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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."
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