Author Topic: Recent ordinations: Congregation Mary Immaculate Queen (CMRI) (Read 7627 times)

Ambrose · « **on:** April 12, 2014, 01:21:01 PM »

Photos: Two ordinations; March 25, 2014

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2014, 01:57:11 PM »

:cheers:

Matto · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2014, 02:06:16 PM »

I am glad to see new traditional priests, no matter what group they belong to. I go to Mass at an SSPX chapel usually and a few times to a resistance chapel, but it is good to see new priests for the CMRI.

soulguard · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2014, 02:17:57 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I am glad to see new traditional priests, no matter what group they belong to. I go to Mass at an SSPX chapel usually and a few times to a resistance chapel, but it is good to see new priests for the CMRI.

I agree with matto

well done CMRI :cheers:

andysloan · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2014, 03:22:22 PM »

CMRI is a sect and in schism from the Keys. That is a serious business!!

"We declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

(Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302).

It would be better to pray that the priests are enlightened to transfer their allegiance to a group loyal to the principles of Archbishop Lefebrvre (presently SSPX resistance)

Matthew 23:1-3

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do:"

There is not a single example of the Vatican II popes imposing error by virtue of the attribute of Infallibility of the Church.

The provenance of CMRI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Schuckardt

John 10:13

"And the hireling flieth, because he is a hireling: and he hath no care for the sheep."

Mystical City of God - Book 6, Chapter 10

THE VICTORY OF CHRIST OVER HELL

"Some of the principal demons gave their answers to this dreadful proposal, encouraging Lucifer by suggesting diverse schemes for hindering the fruit of the Redemption among men. They all agreed that it was not possible to injure the person of Christ, to diminish the immense value of his merits, to destroy the efficacy of the Sacraments, to falsify or abolish the doctrine which Christ had preached; yet they resolved that, in accordance with the new order of assistance and favor established by God for the salvation of men, they should now seek new ways of hindering and preventing the work of God by much the greater deceits and temptations. In reference to these plans some of the astute and malicious demons said “It is true, that men now have at their disposal a new and very powerful doctrine and law, new and efficacious Sacraments, a new Model and Instructor of virtues, a powerful Intercessor and Advocate in this Woman; yet the natural inclinations and passions of the flesh remain just the same, and the sensible and delectable creatures have not changed their nature. Let us then, making use of this situation with increased astuteness, foil as far as in us lies the effects of what this Godman has wrought for men. Let us begin strenuous warfare against mankind by suggesting new attractions, exciting them to follow their passions in forgetfulness of all else. Thus men, being taken up with these dangerous things, cannot attend to the contrary.”

Acting upon this counsel they redistributed the spheres of work among themselves, in order that each squadron of demons might, with a specialized astuteness tempt men to different vices. They resolved to continue to propagate idolatry in the world, so that men might not come to the knowledge of the true God and the Redemption. Wherever idolatry would fail, they concluded to establish sects and heresies, for which they would select the most perverse and depraved of the human race as leaders and teachers of error. Then and there was concocted among these malignant spirits the sect of Mahomet, the heresies of Arius, Pelagius, Nestorius, and whatever other heresies have been started in the world from the first ages of the Church until now, together with those which they have in readiness, but which it is neither necessary nor proper to mention here. Lucifer showed himself content with these infernal counsels as being opposed to divine truth and destructive of the very foundation of man’s rescue, namely divine faith. He lavished flattering praise and high offices upon those demons, who showed themselves willing and who undertook to find the impious originators of these errors."

God bless!

Matto · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2014, 03:58:28 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

CMRI is a sect and in schism from the Keys. That is a serious business!!

. . .
It would be better to pray that the priests are enlightened to transfer their allegiance to a group loyal to the principles of Archbishop Lefebrvre (presently SSPX resistance)

As a resistance supporter I would say that if the CMRI is in schism, then so is the SSPX and the resistance group. When Rome says jump, none of them jump.

andysloan · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2014, 04:34:00 PM »

To Matto:

SSPX recognize the validity of the Pope and his infallible authority, despite the fact that he is overseeing a Mass that is illegal (Council of Trent). However, subject to the usual requirements, it is not invalid.

"Now it is easy to show that the New Mass manifests an inexplicable rapprochement with the theology and liturgy of the Protestants. The following fundamental dogmas of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass are not clearly represented and are even contradicted… Must one conclude further that all these Masses are invalid? As long as the essential conditions for validity are present (matter, form, intention, and a validly ordained priest), I do not see how one can affirm this. The prayers at the Offertory, the Canon and the Priest's Communion which surround the words of Consecration are necessary, not to the validity of the Sacrifice and the Sacrament, but rather to their integrity. It is clear, however, that fewer and fewer Masses are valid these days as the faith of priests is destroyed and they possess no longer the intention to do what the Church does, an intention which the Church cannot change."

Archbishop Lefebvre

Sedevacantists deny the validity of the post V2 Popes and thus their hold of the power of the keys. Thus they are in a state of schism.

"In order, then, that the episcopal office should be one and undivided and that, by the union of the clergy, the whole multitude of believers should be held together in the unity of faith and communion, He set blessed Peter over the rest of the apostles and instituted in him the permanent principle of both unities and their visible foundation… And since the gates of hell trying, if they can, to overthrow the Church, make their assault with a hatred that increases day by day against its divinely laid foundation, we judge it necessary, with the approbation of the Sacred Council, and for the protection, defense and growth of the Catholic flock, to propound the doctrine concerning the 1. Institution, 2. Permanence and 3. Nature of the sacred and apostolic primacy, upon which the strength and coherence of the whole Church depends. This doctrine is to be believed and held by all the faithful in accordance with the ancient and unchanging faith of the whole Church. Furthermore, we shall proscribe and condemn the contrary errors which are so harmful to the Lord's flock." Council of Vatican 1 - INFALLIBLE

Excepting those who are finding their way (obedient to God and docile to grace), sedevacantism is a spiritual disorder and a work of the flesh and de facto a punishment of blindness from God:

"a schismatic is one who holds the same faith, and practises the same worship, as others, and takes pleasure in the mere disunion of the community"

Augustine (Contra Faust. xx, 3; Contra Crescon. ii, 4)

Colossians 2:18-19

"...in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh, And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth unto the increase of God."

3 John 1:9-10

"I had written perhaps to the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the pre-eminence among them, doth not receive us. For this cause, if I come, I will advertise his works which he doth, with malicious words prating against us."

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2014, 04:58:15 PM »

Andy,

1) It undermines your position to say something so obtuse as "I recognize the infallible authority of the pope, despite the fact that he is overseeing illegal universal worship."

2) I'm not sure if you're trying to be clever with wordplay or what, but your syllogism "proving" the "schism" of SVism is false. One is not schismatic in refusing to submit to a man he does not believe is pope. SVism denies that the conciliar rulers are popes, it doesn't deny that if they were popes that they would posses everything which goes along with that.

3) A "spiritual disorder?" Please.

4) Since we're quoting ++Lefebvre,

"What conclusion must we draw in a few months if we are confronted by these repeated acts of partaking in false worship? I don't know. I wonder. But I think the Pope can do nothing worse than call together a meeting of all religions, when we know there is only one true religion and all other religions belong to the devil. So perhaps after this famous meeting of Assisi, perhaps we must say that the Pope is a heretic, is apostate. Now I don't wish yet to say it formally and solemnly, but it seems at first sight that it is impossible for a Pope to be publicly and formally heretical. Our Lord has promised to be with him, to keep his faith, to keep him in the Faith - how can he at the same time be a public heretic and virtually apostatise? So it is possible we may be obliged to believe this pope is not pope" (1986 Address to Seminarians).

Ambrose · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2014, 05:03:56 PM »

Andy wrote:

Quote

Sedevacantists deny the validity of the post V2 Popes and thus their hold of the power of the keys. Thus they are in a state of schism.

No, Catholics who hold the "sedevacantist" position have recognized that Vatican II, and post Vatican II "papal" teaching that contains heresy and grave errors against the Faith could not have come from true Popes.

Secondly these same Catholics recognize that the evil laws and impious and potentially invalid sacramental rites approved by the Conciliar "popes," could not have come from true popes.

andysloan · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2014, 05:30:52 PM »

1) Not so. The Novus Ordo has never been infallibly sanctioned. The mass is illegal according to church law, but it is valid as ALB describes. The sacrifice is made and offered and where no Latin Mass alternative exists, one may attend (where dignity remains) praying, adoring, receiving the Body of Christ, yet seeking to make reparation for the degradations.

1 Thessalonians 4:3

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification;"

2) As explained, the blindness to the validity of the popes and the need to remain subject and obedient to the Seat of Peter is a punishment. It is formed of pride and can be likened to a child taking pleasure in rebellion against his parent.

3) If you are blind, you cannot see.

4) ABL was sagacious but not infallible. He said:

"Our Lord has promised to be with him, to keep his faith, to keep him in the Faith - how can he at the same time be a public heretic and virtually apostatise?"

The answer to is in the question. Pope John Paul was neither a heretic or apostate. ABL was not party to all the pope was doing, his strategy and his inner intentions and also his restrictions by the super-force in the Vatican.

Pope John Paul stated in his speech at Assisi:

"With Francis, the saint who breathed the air of these hills and walked the streets of this town, let us fix our gaze on the mystery of the Cross, the tree of salvation sprinkled with the redeeming blood of Christ.

and diplomatically spoke of:

"a dialogue in which each one, without relativism or syncretism of any kind."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2002/january/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20020124_discorso-assisi_en.html

We are born into the Church. She communicates to us the riches of life and grace entrusted to her. She generates us by Baptism, feeds us with the Sacraments and the Word of God, prepares us for our mission, leads us to the plan of God: she is the reason for our existence as Christians. We are her children. With just pride, we call her our Mother, repeating a title which has come down through the centuries from the earliest times. She must therefore be called upon, respected, and served; for no one can have God for his Father if he does not have the Church for his Mother. One cannot love Christ without loving the Church Christ loves. The spirit of the Church is the spirit of Christ, and to the extent to which one loves the Church of Christ does he possess the Holy Spirit.

Pope John Paul II

The mystery of salvation is revealed to us and is continued and accomplished in the Church, and from this genuine and single source ... it reaches the whole world. Dear young people, and members of the faithful ... we have to be conscious of and absorb this fundamental and revealed truth, contained in the phrase consecrated by tradition: There is no salvation outside the Church. From her alone there flows surely and fully the life-giving force destined, in Christ and in His Spirit, to renew the whole of humanity, and therefore directing every human being to become a part of the Mystical Body of Christ."

Pope John Paul II

That is clear enough to those who wish to see.

Ambrose · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2014, 05:32:26 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

1) Not so. The Novus Ordo has never been infallibly sanctioned. The mass is illegal according to church law, but it is valid as ALB describes. The sacrifice is made and offered and where no Latin Mass alternative exists, one may attend (where dignity remains) praying, adoring, receiving the Body of Christ, yet seeking to make reparation for the degradations.

1 Thessalonians 4:3

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification;"

2) As explained, the blindness to the validity of the popes and the need to remain subject and obedient to the Seat of Peter is a punishment. It is formed of pride and can be likened to a child taking pleasure in rebellion against his parent.

3) If you are blind, you cannot see.

4) ABL was sagacious but not infallible. He said:

"Our Lord has promised to be with him, to keep his faith, to keep him in the Faith - how can he at the same time be a public heretic and virtually apostatise?"

The answer to is in the question. Pope John Paul was neither a heretic or apostate. ABL was not party to all the pope was doing, his strategy and his inner intentions and also his restrictions by the super-force in the Vatican.

Pope John Paul stated in his speech at Assisi:

"With Francis, the saint who breathed the air of these hills and walked the streets of this town, let us fix our gaze on the mystery of the Cross, the tree of salvation sprinkled with the redeeming blood of Christ.

and diplomatically spoke of:

"a dialogue in which each one, without relativism or syncretism of any kind."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2002/january/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20020124_discorso-assisi_en.html

We are born into the Church. She communicates to us the riches of life and grace entrusted to her. She generates us by Baptism, feeds us with the Sacraments and the Word of God, prepares us for our mission, leads us to the plan of God: she is the reason for our existence as Christians. We are her children. With just pride, we call her our Mother, repeating a title which has come down through the centuries from the earliest times. She must therefore be called upon, respected, and served; for no one can have God for his Father if he does not have the Church for his Mother. One cannot love Christ without loving the Church Christ loves. The spirit of the Church is the spirit of Christ, and to the extent to which one loves the Church of Christ does he possess the Holy Spirit.

Pope John Paul II

The mystery of salvation is revealed to us and is continued and accomplished in the Church, and from this genuine and single source ... it reaches the whole world. Dear young people, and members of the faithful ... we have to be conscious of and absorb this fundamental and revealed truth, contained in the phrase consecrated by tradition: There is no salvation outside the Church. From her alone there flows surely and fully the life-giving force destined, in Christ and in His Spirit, to renew the whole of humanity, and therefore directing every human being to become a part of the Mystical Body of Christ."

Pope John Paul II

That is clear enough to those who wish to see.

Andy,

If you want to debate this, start a thread in the crisis forum and stop derailing a thread that has nothing to do with this.

andysloan · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2014, 05:46:42 PM »

It is relevant.

Ephesians 5:11

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

Your accusation of derailing is dishonest. And that goes hand-in-hand with my exposition that sedevacantism is a punishment.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2014, 05:53:06 PM »

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2014, 05:58:07 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

1) Not so. The Novus Ordo has never been infallibly sanctioned. The mass is illegal according to church law, but it is valid as ALB describes. The sacrifice is made and offered and where no Latin Mass alternative exists, one may attend (where dignity remains) praying, adoring, receiving the Body of Christ, yet seeking to make reparation for the degradations.

First of all, there is no such thing as a universally approved liturgy which isn't infallibly safe. Secondly, the validity is a moot point when the liturgy itself is illegal and impious-- an Orthodox liturgy is valid, but it is a mortal sin to attend. Third, did you just recommend attending the Novus Ordo? Why should anyone listen to you? No wonder you quote JohnPaul the Small! You're cut from the same cloth as everyone's favorite pocket.

Quote from: AndySloan/Pocket v.1.5

1 Thessalonians 4:3

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification;"

2) As explained, the blindness to the validity of the popes and the need to remain subject and obedient to the Seat of Peter is a punishment. It is formed of pride and can be likened to a child taking pleasure in rebellion against his parent.

3) If you are blind, you cannot see.

Someone who recommends attending the N.O.M. and lauds JPII the Great Heretic talking about blind? If we are blind, you are blind and attempting to lead us. Yeesh.

Quote

4) ABL was sagacious but not infallible. He said:

"Our Lord has promised to be with him, to keep his faith, to keep him in the Faith - how can he at the same time be a public heretic and virtually apostatise?"

The answer to is in the question. Pope John Paul was neither a heretic or apostate. ABL was not party to all the pope was doing, his strategy and his inner intentions and also his restrictions by the super-force in the Vatican.

He prayed to false gods. He was a heretic. You are a Novus Ordite with an odd propensity for traditional private revelations and prophecy which is why you haven't been run out of here with pitchforks, because most trads have a softspot for anyone who's keen on private revelation.

Quote

Pope John Paul stated in his speech at Assisi:

"With Francis, the saint who breathed the air of these hills and walked the streets of this town, let us fix our gaze on the mystery of the Cross, the tree of salvation sprinkled with the redeeming blood of Christ.

and diplomatically spoke of:

"a dialogue in which each one, without relativism or syncretism of any kind."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2002/january/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20020124_discorso-assisi_en.html

We are born into the Church. She communicates to us the riches of life and grace entrusted to her. She generates us by Baptism, feeds us with the Sacraments and the Word of God, prepares us for our mission, leads us to the plan of God: she is the reason for our existence as Christians. We are her children. With just pride, we call her our Mother, repeating a title which has come down through the centuries from the earliest times. She must therefore be called upon, respected, and served; for no one can have God for his Father if he does not have the Church for his Mother. One cannot love Christ without loving the Church Christ loves. The spirit of the Church is the spirit of Christ, and to the extent to which one loves the Church of Christ does he possess the Holy Spirit.

Pope John Paul II

The mystery of salvation is revealed to us and is continued and accomplished in the Church, and from this genuine and single source ... it reaches the whole world. Dear young people, and members of the faithful ... we have to be conscious of and absorb this fundamental and revealed truth, contained in the phrase consecrated by tradition: There is no salvation outside the Church. From her alone there flows surely and fully the life-giving force destined, in Christ and in His Spirit, to renew the whole of humanity, and therefore directing every human being to become a part of the Mystical Body of Christ."

Pope John Paul II

That is clear enough to those who wish to see.

An incidentally Catholic quote here or there does not a Catholic make-- and I didn't even read the quotes, but they do not forgive his public heresies in participating in false worship. Nor his Catechism which teaches Muslims worship the True God. Nor his code of canon law which regulates, allows and lauds sacrilege and enables Catholic divorce.

andysloan · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2014, 07:15:07 PM »

To Mithrandylan

On your signature

"I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them!!

Well, with the following being a component of the true faith, you have some retractions to make following your last post!

Galatians 5:14

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

....to Pope John Paul 2 most especially!

Now to you pharisees who publish denunciations against the Post V2 popes without full understanding (and at root, your indignations are a cloak for pleasure in your own self-exaltation), recognize that even if you believe them to have seriously erred, there is no justification for sedevacantism:

Matthew 23:1-3

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not."

That would at least be a start because at least you won't be in schism.

The Holy Ghost did not place that statement of Christ in the scriptures to pad out the account.