Author Topic: Against Feeneyism  (Read 740 times)

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Offline frluc

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Against Feeneyism
« on: March 15, 2013, 12:52:58 AM »
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  • Sometimes I ponder what a future pope… or should I say the future pope as a specific reference to the Glory of the Olive [tree]… Gloria Olivae… should do.
    One such thing would be to refute the Feeneyites. He would start out teaching and in the end formulate dogma.
    What are the principles involved in this refutation:
    •      That a soul in the presence of God sees itself for what it is and condemns itself.
    •      That the faculties of the soul must not be in their current weakened state but at full strength, which can only happen post death.
    •      A soul does not condemn itself with just the will but with the entire breath of its complete being.
    •      Physical death and spiritual death [separation of body and soul] are not the same instant of being.
    •      Graces are given to the soul in between the two deaths and it can still merit.
    •      The creation we experience is fallen and is still connected to the preternatural creation.
    •      The experience of each could be considered the experience of a different dimension.
    •      All of creation is a reflection of the Creator.
    •      And water especially is a reflection of the Holy Spirit.
    •      When we are baptised with water we are baptised with the Holy Spirit.
    •      We can still be baptised between the two deaths but this will be by the Holy Spirit.

    Offline roscoe

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    Against Feeneyism
    « Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 01:20:12 AM »
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  • There is no such thing as a 'Feeneyite'.  :reporter:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline bowler

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    Against Feeneyism
    « Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 09:34:46 AM »
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  • The main problem with what you wrote is that it is just a list of your own opinions.

    As Bp. Fulton Sheen once said:

    Quote
    If you want to convince a pagan you use philosophy
    If you want to convince a Protestant you use scripture
    If you want to convince a Catholic you use dogma


    You have just used your own personal opinions, which as you'll notice, is not on the list. The only person you'll convince with your opinion is yourself.

    This is a Catholic forum, so please post dogma to support your thesis, or at least post Fathers, Saints, Popes.

    Offline ihsv

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    Against Feeneyism
    « Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 11:14:46 AM »
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  • Ignoring the speculative nature of the original post, I find it ironic that, when you get right down to it, the only real reason such a papal "refutation" of "feeneyites" would have any "umph" is precisely because subjection to the papacy, adherence to the Catholic faith and reception of the Church's sacraments are essential for salvation.  

    To argue that the papacy, the Church, her doctrine and her sacraments are, at the end of the day, not necessary for entry into heaven is ultimately self-defeating.  Why would anyone take an institution seriously which spends its time condemning people who claim it to be essential for salvation?  

    Besides, it's not as if we have more serious issues to deal with.  Let's spend our time attacking our fellow trads and causing even more infighting and fratricide.  

    That'll help the Church.  For sure.

    After all, isn't it obvious that the greatest threat to the salvation of souls, the propagation of the Faith, and to the survival of civilization are those pesky "feeneyites"?
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline frluc

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    Against Feeneyism
    « Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 12:34:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: ihsv
    Ignoring the speculative nature of the original post, I find it ironic that, when you get right down to it, the only real reason such a papal "refutation" of "feeneyites" would have any "umph" is precisely because subjection to the papacy, adherence to the Catholic faith and reception of the Church's sacraments are essential for salvation.  

    To argue that the papacy, the Church, her doctrine and her sacraments are, at the end of the day, not necessary for entry into heaven is ultimately self-defeating.  Why would anyone take an institution seriously which spends its time condemning people who claim it to be essential for salvation?  

    Besides, it's not as if we have more serious issues to deal with.  Let's spend our time attacking our fellow trads and causing even more infighting and fratricide.  

    That'll help the Church.  For sure.

    After all, isn't it obvious that the greatest threat to the salvation of souls, the propagation of the Faith, and to the survival of civilization are those pesky "feeneyites"?


    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/weofthecatacombs/


    Offline Jehanne

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    Against Feeneyism
    « Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 08:35:16 PM »
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  • I'm a "Feeneyite".  In a nutshell, here's what we believe (but, of course, I am only speaking for myself here):

    1)  Sacramental Baptism confers grace.  So does "Baptism of Desire" or "desire for Baptism," if you wish.  Saint Thomas taught this explicitly; in fact, the Angelic Doctor taught that a catechumen who desired sacramental Baptism but who died without it would have to suffer the temporal consequences of his/her sins in Purgatory, which would have been cleansed if that individual had lived to receive sacramental Baptism.

    2)  The One and Triune God can being sacramental Baptism to whomever He wills.  God is omnipotent, so He can bring sacramental Baptism to anyone who truly desires such and/or is worthy of it.  Doing so would in no way be contrary to His Perfect nature.

    3)  Given God's omnipotence, to say that someone, anyone, was never sacramentally Baptized is to "prove a negative," a "cosmic" one, in fact.  Try to prove that someone like Osama bin Laden was never sacramentally baptized in his infancy, as "anyone whatsoever" can baptize.  Since, for an infant, a valid baptism is always a fruitful one, bin Landen would have been a Christian for at least some portion of his life.  Saint Thomas extended to angels the capacity to administer the Sacraments, which occurred at Fatima.

    4)  Sacramental Baptism places an indelible mark on a person's soul.  No one disputes this.  For someone like bin Landen, if he was baptized in his infancy, he died with the character of Baptism on his soul.

    5)  Salutary repentance is always a possibility.  Just as God can raised people from the dead, so, too, He can grant them a final opportunity at "death's door" to embrace the One True Faith.

    6)  Submission to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation.  Such was explicitly stated at the Fifth Lateran Council, "since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam..."  No 'wiggle room' on this one; this is a historical fact as much as a dogmatic one.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Against Feeneyism
    « Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 08:41:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    There is no such thing as a 'Feeneyite'.  :reporter:


    Please shut u..... Oh, You said Feeneyite.  Never mind.   :wink:
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

     

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