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Author Topic: Ratzinger Reader  (Read 1327 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Ratzinger Reader
« on: June 15, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
    The Ratzinger Reader: Mapping a Theological Journey
    Hat tip to StCeciliasGirl for mentioning this excellent book (see her quote from it pertaining to Ratzinger and the liturgy), not that the "theology" expressed therein is traditional, but that it really shows Ratzinger was (is?) a Modernist:
    Quote from: Ratzinger (p. 262)
    ‘Ecuмenical’ and ‘Catholic’ in their very etymology say the same thing. Therefore, to be a Catholic is not to become entangled in separatism, but to be open to the fullness of Christianity.
    Wow, so, viz., Catholicism isn't the fullness of Christianity‽
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    It was precisely this attitude which the fathers had to assert against the proposed text ["Schema Constitutionis Dogmaticae de Fontibus Revelationis" of the preparatory commission, which was rejected by a simple majority on Nov. 20, 1962, and replaced with a text that would become Dei Verbum]. The texts almost exclusively relied upon the Latin theology of the last hundred years in continuation of the fight against Modernism, and in so doing, these texts were obviously threatened by a narrowness in which the wide scope of Catholicism could scarcely be detected.
    Wow, this is the hardest attack on scholasticism i've seen him ever give. Essentially, he's saying scholasticism (= Thomism; cf. Pascendi §45: "let it be clearly understood above all things that the scholastic philosophy We prescribe is that which the Angelic Doctor has bequeathed to us") isn't Catholic.

    He concludes this section on how John XXIII accepted the "positive" schema that would become Dei Verbum over the "negative" one:
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    It was a turning point, too, in the sense that, in contrast to Trent and Vatican Council I, the pope had rejected curial dominance and sided with the Council.
    This section (pp. 259 ff.) makes it so obvious that John XXIII forged a new, "non-anti-Modernist" way. It also is the most interesting ∵ he discusses Pascendi, Pius IX's Syllabus, Humani Generis, and St. Pius X's Oath Against Modernism:
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    This same [anti-Modernist] anxiety persisted until its last reverberation sounded in the encyclical Humani generis of Pius XII. This docuмent pursued once more the line of thought of Pius IX and Pius X. The schemata of the theological commission, the first of which now lay before the fathers for consideration, breathed this same spirit.
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    The same cramped thinking, once so necessary as a line of defence, impregnated the text and informed it with a theology of negations and prohibitions; although in themselves they might well have been valid, they certainly could not produce that positive note which was now to be expected from the Council.
    "in themselves they might well have been valid"? He doubts a Magisterial docuмent‽ And "cramped thinking"‽
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    ‘Pastoral’ should not mean something vague and imprecise, but rather something free from wrangling, and free also from entanglement in questions that concern scholars alone.
    He's speaking of Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange and other Thomists, obviously. Apparently, the contents of St. Thomas's Summa "concern[s ] scholars alone"? Pascendi completely refutes this:
    Quote from: Pascendi
    For amongst the chief points of their [the Modernists'] teaching is this which they deduce from the principle of vital immanence [related to the redefinition of truth as "conformitas mentis et vitae"]; that religious formulas, to be really religious and not merely theological speculations, ought to be living and to live the life of the religious sentiment.
    Pp. 57 ff., his conception of salvation, is an excellent example of the Modernists' doctrine described by the above-quoted passage of Pascendi:
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    it might have seemed like an escape to seek to simply explain redemption using the traditional vocabulary of theology, which was certainly once a verbal and conceptual expression of religious experience, but which today no longer reveals these experiences, so that its words have become, for a start, doctrinal formulae that must first be reopened to the experiences that they contain
    (cf. Bp. Tissier's "Faith Imperiled by Reason: Benedict XVI's Hermeneutics")

    Also, it's as if he hasn't even read Trent or Vatican I. Both are not mostly "written in a spirit of condemnation and negation", as Ratzinger says. They're both pretty balanced; they both have sections with anathema sits (the canons) and positive ones in prose (the chapters).

    There's a section of Ratzinger Reader (pp. 131 ff.) where he extols the Enlightenment's worship of reason, just like we worship Logos, yet he doesn't mention the manifold errors of the Enlightenment: denial of original sin, naturalism, hatred of faith (since supposedly it contradicts reason), atheism, etc. His attack on relativism and pluralism (pp. 134 ff.) is very weak; he essentially sees relativism as a way to be ecuмenical with the relativist/pluralist/pantheist sects, like those in India.

    Ratzinger Reader has other sections on whether there's a "Ratzinger I" and a "Ratzinger II" (pp. 11 ff.), on the Magisterium and the bishops' relation to the pope (pp. 187 ff.), on extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (pp. 154 ff.), and on subsistit in (pp. 108-12). He says:
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    the idea that the subsistit could be multiplied fails to grasp precisely the notion that is being intended. With the word subsistit, the Council wished to explain the unicity of the Catholic Church and the fact of her inability to be multiplied
    Yet he continues:
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    Although the Church is only one and ‘subsists’ in a unique subject, there are also ecclesial realities beyond this subject – true local Churches and different ecclesial communities.
    "true local Churches", as if the Catholic Church is "multiplied" and exists outside Herself?
    Quote from: Ratzinger
    the existence of an ecclesial reality beyond the one subject, reflects the contradictory nature of human sin and division
    So, sin is in the Church Herself, not just in the individual members that comprise Her? The Church isn't one and holy‽
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    Offline Matto

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    Ratzinger Reader
    « Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 07:26:34 PM »
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  • It will be fun when the crisis is finally over and all of this nonsense will be publicly burned.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline PatrickG

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    Ratzinger Reader
    « Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 04:46:53 AM »
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  • Cardinal Ratzinger is a Modernist through and through - he always was. The foul Von Balthasar always claimed him as one of their own. He did, somehow, manage to pull the wool over a lot of men's eyes.  Bells-and-smells Modernism is extremely dangerous - he and Bishop Fellay with a big grin and a lot of nicey-nicey waffle are sinking the SSPX, for goodness' sake! A public burning is exactly what this needs.

    This sort of thing is, however, very useful as it shows Catholics who didn't already know exactly what we're up against - that Modernist Rome hasn't changed one jot since the Council, there can be no agreement with Modernist Rome ever. Doctrine, doctrine, doctrine till I'm blue in the face; DOCTRINE!

    Old-fashioned is good, modern is suicidal.
    - Bishop Richard N. Williamson.

    Offline Geremia

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    « Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 10:05:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: PatrickG
    he and Bishop Fellay with a big grin and a lot of nicey-nicey waffle are sinking the SSPX, for goodness' sake!
    Are you saying that although Bp. Fellay has explicitly said in his interviews that the goal is the conversion of Rome, his actions speak otherwise?
    Quote from: PatrickG
    there can be no agreement with Modernist Rome ever.
    Unless Rome publicly renounces Vatican II's Modernism, such as with Bp. Athanasius's proposed Syllabus; viz., unless Rome converts
    Quote from: PatrickG
    Doctrine, doctrine, doctrine till I'm blue in the face; DOCTRINE!
    Exactly! No touchy-feely group hugs with Card. Castrillón et al., as Bp. Williamson said in his seminary lectures. ☺
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    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 10:50:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Ratzinger (p. 262)
    ‘Ecuмenical’ and ‘Catholic’ in their very etymology say the same thing. Therefore, to be a Catholic is not to become entangled in separatism, but to be open to the fullness of Christianity.
    Wow, so, viz., Catholicism isn't the fullness of Christianity?


    Forgive me, but on this particular quote isn't he saying the exact opposite? For the sake of fairness, couldn't his quote be read as:

    Quote from: Ratzinger
    (p. 262)]‘Ecuмenical’ and ‘Catholic’ in their very etymology say the same thing. Therefore, to be a Catholic is ... to be open to the fullness of Christianity.


    Again, I may be reading this wrong, but for the sake of justice I thought I should point this out. The rest of the quotations are very revealing, but not surprising, sadly.


    Offline Geremia

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    « Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 05:38:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Ratzinger (p. 262)
    ‘Ecuмenical’ and ‘Catholic’ in their very etymology say the same thing. Therefore, to be a Catholic is not to become entangled in separatism, but to be open to the fullness of Christianity.
    Wow, so, viz., Catholicism isn't the fullness of Christianity?


    Forgive me, but on this particular quote isn't he saying the exact opposite? For the sake of fairness, couldn't his quote be read as:

    Quote from: Ratzinger
    (p. 262)]‘Ecuмenical’ and ‘Catholic’ in their very etymology say the same thing. Therefore, to be a Catholic is ... to be open to the fullness of Christianity.


    Again, I may be reading this wrong, but for the sake of justice I thought I should point this out. The rest of the quotations are very revealing, but not surprising, sadly.
    The second quote in my OP immediately follows this one. Thus, he identifies the "attitude" of "separatism" with the "cramped thinking" of "the Latin theology of the last hundred years" in "the fight against Modernism", "in which the wide scope of Catholicism could scarcely be detected."

    A Modernist, he doesn't think there is a perennial value to dogmatic definitions, which heavily employed the stable notions of "Latin theology."
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Ratzinger Reader
    « Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 05:55:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Again, I may be reading this wrong


    You are.

    He regards ecuмenism as being open to the fullness of Christianity - that is to say, ecuмenism is Catholic - because the etymologies are the same.

    It is pure modernism.

    Offline Geremia

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    « Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 08:23:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    he identifies the "attitude" of "separatism" with the "cramped thinking" of "the Latin theology of the last hundred years" in "the fight against Modernism", "in which the wide scope of Catholicism could scarcely be detected."
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    It is pure modernism.
    Another reason it's Modernism is because, according to Pope St. Pius X, hatred of the scholastic method leads to Modernism:
    Quote from: Pascendi §42
    Whether it is ignorance or fear, or both, that inspires this conduct in them, certain it is that the passion for novelty is always united in them with hatred of scholasticism, and there is no surer sign that a man is on the way to Modernism than when he begins to show his dislike for this system. Modernists and their admirers should remember the proposition condemned by Pius IX: The method and principles which have served the doctors of scholasticism when treating of theology no longer correspond with the exigencies of our time or the progress of science (Syll. Prop. 13).
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    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    Ratzinger Reader
    « Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 09:30:51 AM »
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  • Ratzinger's book "Theological Highlights of Vatican II" contains clear examples of his modernist orientation.
    Omnes pro Christo