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Author Topic: Question on John 3:36  (Read 947 times)

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Offline Phyllo

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Question on John 3:36
« on: March 06, 2015, 01:45:20 PM »
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    • Hi,

    John 3:16 RSV CE For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Now, I believe that we choose the eternal life that we will have.  Either eternal life with God or eternal life in hell.

    John 3:36 RSV CE He who believes in the Son has eternal life: he who does not obey the Son  shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

    What does" shall not see life" mean when in 3:16 we are given eternal life?

    Does it mean that we are separated from God and will be in hell?

    Thanks
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 02:11:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Phyllo
    Hi,

    John 3:16 RSV CE For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Now, I believe that we choose the eternal life that we will have.  Either eternal life with God or eternal life in hell.

    John 3:36 RSV CE He who believes in the Son has eternal life: he who does not obey the Son  shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

    What does" shall not see life" mean when in 3:16 we are given eternal life?

    Does it mean that we are separated from God and will be in hell?

    Thanks


    Both quotes mean the same thing.
    If you believe in something you follow it faithfully and thus are entitled to the reward.
    The second quote is very specific;  if you DON"T follow faithfully you will reap punisihment.

     :geezer:
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 02:22:43 PM »
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    • Phyllo, this is a great reference to search quotes from Holy Scripture:
    Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition

    edited to add this from my bookmarks - another Haydock commentary site:
    HAYDOCK CATHOLIC BIBLE COMMENTARY
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    Offline Phyllo

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 05:08:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini
    Quote from: Phyllo
    Hi,

    John 3:16 RSV CE For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Now, I believe that we choose the eternal life that we will have.  Either eternal life with God or eternal life in hell.

    John 3:36 RSV CE He who believes in the Son has eternal life: he who does not obey the Son  shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

    What does" shall not see life" mean when in 3:16 we are given eternal life?

    Does it mean that we are separated from God and will be in hell?

    Thanks


    Both quotes mean the same thing.
    If you believe in something you follow it faithfully and thus are entitled to the reward.
    The second quote is very specific;  if you DON"T follow faithfully you will reap punisihment.

     :geezer:


    I know but what kind of punishment.  Eternal life in hell or annihilated where you don't exist spiritually?
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    Offline Phyllo

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 05:10:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    Phyllo, this is a great reference to search quotes from Holy Scripture:
    Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition

    edited to add this from my bookmarks - another Haydock commentary site:
    HAYDOCK CATHOLIC BIBLE COMMENTARY


    Thanks I have the hard copy and love it but it didn't have the answer to my question.
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 06:32:32 PM »
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    • The soul cannot be annialated, it will spend eternity either in heaven or hell.
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 07:42:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Phyllo
    Quote from: Miseremini
    Quote from: Phyllo
    Hi,

    John 3:16 RSV CE For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Now, I believe that we choose the eternal life that we will have.  Either eternal life with God or eternal life in hell.

    John 3:36 RSV CE He who believes in the Son has eternal life: he who does not obey the Son  shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

    What does" shall not see life" mean when in 3:16 we are given eternal life?

    Does it mean that we are separated from God and will be in hell?

    Thanks


    Both quotes mean the same thing.
    If you believe in something you follow it faithfully and thus are entitled to the reward.
    The second quote is very specific;  if you DON"T follow faithfully you will reap punisihment.

     :geezer:


    I know but what kind of punishment.  Eternal life in hell or annihilated where you don't exist spiritually?


    I think your problem is with wording.  There is no such thing as "eternal LIFE" in hell.  A soul will be in hell for eternity but once we pass into eternity the only LIFE there is , is in Heaven.
     :geezer:
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Offline Cantarella

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 07:52:27 PM »
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    • Hi Philo,

    I wonder if this question is related to your recent conversations with the Jehovah Witness?

    It is my understanding that they believe that the damned souls are actually annihilated, and basically only the just and saved souls gain eternal life. The reward for a righteous life then would be the gift of immortality. That means that Hell is basically your soul perishing forever, but not true punishment related to your sins while on earth. This, as Marlelar said, runs contrary to Catholic teaching, because we believe that a soul either goes for eternal punishment in Hell, suffers expiation in Purgatory, or enjoys eternal happiness in Heaven. Damned souls go to Hell, and are forever void from the presence of God; not just *disappear* or get annihilated.
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Phyllo

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 06:44:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella
    Hi Philo,

    I wonder if this question is related to your recent conversations with the Jehovah Witness?

    It is my understanding that they believe that the damned souls are actually annihilated, and basically only the just and saved souls gain eternal life. The reward for a righteous life then would be the gift of immortality. That means that Hell is basically your soul perishing forever, but not true punishment related to your sins while on earth. This, as Marlelar said, runs contrary to Catholic teaching, because we believe that a soul either goes for eternal punishment in Hell, suffers expiation in Purgatory, or enjoys eternal happiness in Heaven. Damned souls go to Hell, and are forever void from the presence of God; not just *disappear* or get annihilated.


    You are right about my JW friend.  I didn't mention her because sometimes I just get how I should not be wasting my time throwing pearls before the swine and not a real answer.  I do enjoy the debate though.

    Right..eternal punishment in hell.  It blows my mind how they change their "bible" to match what they believe.  They don't use the word punishment they use cutting off because they believe the soul gets annihilated.  The good person is just sleeping until the second coming.

    I think they have a very sad understanding of God.
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    Offline Charlemagne

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    Question on John 3:36
    « Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 10:00:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Phyllo

    I think they have a very sad understanding of God.


    Agreed, and I would add that the same applies to any non-Catholic.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine
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