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Author Topic: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests  (Read 995 times)

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Offline Veritas_099

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Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
« on: August 06, 2017, 07:44:57 AM »
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    • My question is simply this: do you think that effeminacy in the priesthood encourages certain kinds of sɛҳuąƖ sins?

    The first reason this could be the case is simply that an effeminate priest is less likely to do the work necessary to make sure you are removing or diminishing the occasions of sin. For example, putting a filter on your computer, spending less time in-front of a screen, or getting rid of a smart phone if that is causing you to sin.

    The second reason I'm thinking of though is that when the priest is really manly, other men feel a certain comradely with him. So when you are confessing to him sɛҳuąƖ sins, the human element of confession is all the more shameful.

    In the diocese I grew up in, most of the priests are older, and many are effeminate. I've been told that someone went to at least 3 priests in one particular area and they all did not consider the most common sɛҳuąƖ sins all that bad. "Everyone does it" said one priest. Someone could go to confession week after week for years and never be admonished as to why they are not making more efforts to remove the occasions of sin or change their habits which might be leading them to fall over and over again.

    Within the last year or two I've had a chance to meet a lot of younger priests, many who are more traditional, many who are more manly in the way they act and talk. These priests smoke (cigars and pipes), work out, some do martial arts, some shot guns, fish, or hunt. And I'm getting to the age where many of these priests are actually the same age as me now. Even though they are bound by the seal, it would be extremely shameful to constantly come back to them for years without making any progress regarding these very serious vices.

    I've heard Fr. Ripperger and other priests talk about how pornography is an absolute plague. But it is something that I think can be overcame and avoided. Do you think these factors effect the tenancy of these types of vice in the laity?
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 12:43:39 PM »
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    • You do not sound familiar with the sspx and tradition.  Pornography can be overcome.  We don't just think it can be, we know it can be.    Traditionalists battle the cause, and not just the symptoms.  We don't just decry abortion, we decry more so the lustful and immodest actions that lead to it.  We don't just decry (vices)pornography, we decry more so the tools and actions that lead to it.  We don't just decry effeminacy in priests, we decry more so what causes it.  

    And, I think you are missing the point with effeminacy(that can take on many forms).  Because, there are many butch NO priests and prelates who are equally as bad in the larger scheme of things. 
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    Offline Veritas_099

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 12:58:53 PM »
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    • Why do I get the feeling you didn't read all my post?
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #3 on: August 06, 2017, 04:21:04 PM »
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    • No disrespect, because morally speaking you sound as though you have your head on right.  But, we are not just called to be simple as doves.  We are also called to be wise as serpents.  

    I just read your post and got the feeling you had never heard a +Williamson sermon before.  Maybe it was this sentence that set me off, because none of those character building activities are priestly channels of grace.

    "Within the last year or two I've had a chance to meet a lot of younger priests, many who are more traditional, many who are more manly in the way they act and talk. These priests smoke (cigars and pipes), work out, some do martial arts, some shot guns, fish, or hunt."

    Unless these same priests are sufficiently traditional(which I doubt) as opposed to just more traditional(than the modern liberal NO fraud priest), they are likely not traditional enough to save us from lustful sins.  Pornography is an extreme, which makes it quite easy to avoid you could say, but there less lustful extremes that will still send us to hell.  
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    Offline Veritas_099

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 04:29:46 PM »
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    • Pornography isn't an "extreme." It's readily available and accessible to everyone. There are far worse depths of sin to fall into than simply looking at a porn video. Porn is just the gateway. This is not really the point of my post though.
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 05:30:56 PM »
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    • Well, like I said, it sounds as though you are not familiar with tradition.  Because, pornography is an extreme.  There are some members of this forum who think masturbation in general isn't a grave sin.  Ive heard them say things like "if you are going to do that do it in your bed under the covers and it is no longer then a sin".  It is nonsense like that that makes one consider pornography a gateway.  Pornography is indeed an extreme.  St. Gregory the Great said that you cannot even relish a sɛҳuąƖ dream you had upon waking(A dream over which you have little to no immediate control).  If it is grave, it is extreme.  

    But, I guess to get to your point.  I do not think effeminacy is the problem.  Many saints have had long hair, baby faces, are soft spoken, of slender build, and so on.  All of which one could argue are feminine characteristics.  But, that did not deter them from confessing the truth.  Likewise, we know of many wicked prelates who were in many ways masculine.  + Williamson always describes Paul VI(who was a strong man, just a wicked one) as armwrestling and pinning tradition from his elevated position.  I don't see too many women armwrestling.  

    Real feminine women are not prissy giggly barbie dolls.  That is not feminine, that is a perverted image of our modern age.  So, don't use that as a guide for what is feminine.  
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 10:55:33 PM »
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    • Veritas - You said "Even though they are bound by the seal, it would be extremely shameful to constantly come back to them for years without making any progress regarding these very serious vices."  

    I remember when I first started listening to Fr. Chazal sspx, he would preach about how many of the NO laity go to hell because the priests do not teach them how to do penance(in the confessional when the opportunity is prime).  If a penitent is genuinely sorry for his sins and firm in amending his ways, a priest should not have a problem directing his penitents free from such vices.  And, if he doesn't or God forbid cannot, shame on him.

    Also, if such masculinity frightens you from going to confess, then such masculinity given the circuмstances is not a good quality.  Christ was meek and humble of heart, who taught to forgive 7 x 77 times, and to whom even the children can come unto.  The priest is to imitate this.  So, such masculinity in priests that do not know how to do penance and teach others to do likewise is not an improvement.  Lastly, remember, a priest has(or is supposed to have) the grace to forget the details divulged in the confessional. 
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    Offline Degrelle

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    Re: Question about sɛҳuąƖ sin and character of the priests
    « Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 09:35:12 AM »
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    • Veritas: welcome to the forum. I, for one, think that your questions are legitimate and good questions and for what it's worth I'll give you my $0.25 cents.

    I do think that effeminacy in priests is a bit of a concern. And with all due respect, it seems to me that new S.S.P.X priests in recent years (those trained after Bp. Williamson's ouster from the North American seminary) seem to be very meek, gentle, and slightly effeminate in affectation. While I definitely hear what PG is saying that the most important thing is that people confess the truth, I am troubled by effeminacy in men be they priest or laity. But to deal with priests specifically, I think that it may make it seem like "normal" men are not called to be priests. I think that priests are looked up to as role models, and an effeminate man is not a good role model, especially in today's day and age where sodomitic perversion is being promoted everywhere.

    I think I understand partly what you are saying about pornography. It is also true that today it has been made "mainstream" in the general culture. Outside of Traditionalist Catholic circles, it is considered normal and even good.  I was not even a trad yet but I remember as a high school student I was constantly badgered and got into fights because I was openly anti-pornography and my confreres assumed this meant I was a sodomite.

    However, viewing pornography is an extreme danger and evil in and of itself. As PG rightly points out, sins of solitary impurity are extremely serious sins. St. Thomas Aquinas taught that masturbation is a graver sin than rape.
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