Author Topic: Question (Read 3019 times)

TKGS · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2019, 07:11:22 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning on June 23, 2019, 07:39:30 PM

Some aren't, and some are making a decent effort to be Catholic. A lot of us might know people who attend the NO but are genuinely Catholic.

Those that are trying will be rewarded by God.

Most are hook, line and sinker for it, though.

The question I responded to was why they say that they can safely stay in the Novus Ordo.

Every person I've met that truly fits your description has reservations. They don't unequivocally say that the Novus Ordo is safe even as they have difficulty figuring out the alternative. Those who do are simply not Catholic.

Alexandria · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2019, 10:57:14 AM »

Quote from: TKGS on June 24, 2019, 07:11:22 PM

The question I responded to was why they say that they can safely stay in the Novus Ordo.

Every person I've met that truly fits your description has reservations. They don't unequivocally say that the Novus Ordo is safe even as they have difficulty figuring out the alternative. Those who do are simply not Catholic.

They think they're Catholic. The "confusion" began almost 60 years ago. Hard to believe it's been that long already. I remember when it all began as if it were yesterday. Only the grace of God could have sustained me or anyone else through it, only to come out the other side of it with any semblance of Catholicism still intact. I attribute that in part to the Dominican Sisters (long since defunct) who taught me, as well as the grammar school (boarded up due to lack of students after having once boasted of 1,600 in the school in 1965) I attended.
What I'm saying is that, at this point, unless they make an effort to find out otherwise, as far as they are concerned, they're Catholic.
By the way, do you happen to know the definitive Church teaching on ѕυιcιdєs pre-VII? I'm still waiting for someone to answer me on that. :)

2Vermont · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2019, 03:22:53 PM »

Roman Catechism:

Negative Part Of This Commandment Forbids Murder And ѕυιcιdє

The above are the cases in which life may be taken without violating this Commandment; and with these exceptions all other killing is forbidden, whether we consider the person who kills, the person killed, or the means used to kill.

As to the person who kills, the Commandment recognizes no exception whatever, be he rich or powerful, master or parent. All, without exception or distinction, are forbidden to kill.

With regard to the person killed, the law extends to all. There is no individual, however humble or lowly his condition, whose life is not shielded by this law.

It also forbids ѕυιcιdє. No man possesses such power over his own life as to be at liberty to put himself to death. Hence we find that the Commandment does not say: Thou shalt not kill another, but simply: Thou shalt not kill.

Finally, if we consider the numerous means by which murder may be committed, the law admits of no exception. Not only does it forbid to take away the life of another by laying violent hands on him, by means of a sword, a stone, a stick, a halter, or by administering poison; but also strictly prohibits the accomplishment of the death of another by counsel, assistance, help or any other means whatever.

Pius X Catechism:

7 Q. Why does God, in the Fifth Commandment, forbid the taking of one's own life or ѕυιcιdє?

A. In the Fifth Commandment God forbids ѕυιcιdє, because man is not the master of his own life no more than of the life of another. Hence the Church punishes ѕυιcιdє by deprivation of Christian burial.

Baltimore Catechism:

Q. 1274. What sin is it to destroy one's own life, or commit ѕυιcιdє, as this act is called?

A. It is a mortal sin to destroy one's own life or commit ѕυιcιdє, as this act is called, and persons who willfully and knowingly commit such an act die in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of Christian burial. It is also wrong to expose one's self unnecessarily to the danger of death by rash or foolhardy feats of daring.

Contrast the above with JPII's Catechism of the New Religion of Vatican II:

ѕυιcιdє
2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.
2281 ѕυιcιdє contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. ѕυιcιdє is contrary to love for the living God.
2282 If ѕυιcιdє is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in ѕυιcιdє is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing ѕυιcιdє.
2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Alexandria · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2019, 04:43:43 PM »

2Vermont, that was very kind of you. Thank you!

2Vermont · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2019, 06:22:15 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria on June 25, 2019, 04:43:43 PM

2Vermont, that was very kind of you. Thank you!

You are very welcome! Hope that helps!

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TKGS

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