Author Topic: Question (Read 3018 times)

TKGS · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2019, 07:18:20 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria on June 25, 2019, 10:57:14 AM

They think they're Catholic. The "confusion" began almost 60 years ago. Hard to believe it's been that long already. I remember when it all began as if it were yesterday. Only the grace of God could have sustained me or anyone else through it, only to come out the other side of it with any semblance of Catholicism still intact. I attribute that in part to the Dominican Sisters (long since defunct) who taught me, as well as the grammar school (boarded up due to lack of students after having once boasted of 1,600 in the school in 1965) I attended.
What I'm saying is that, at this point, unless they make an effort to find out otherwise, as far as they are concerned, they're Catholic.
By the way, do you happen to know the definitive Church teaching on ѕυιcιdєs pre-VII? I'm still waiting for someone to answer me on that. :)

You are absolutely correct. We do need to remember that "thinking" one is Catholic and "being" Catholic are two entirely different things. I will not necessarily attribute the sin of heresy or schism to those individuals being in the unfortunate position of thinking they are Catholic when they have been led astray by blind guides. Being outside the Church, God is judge (cf. 1 Cor. 5:13).
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It look like 2Vermont adequately answered your question on ѕυιcιdє.

poche · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2019, 11:03:32 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria on June 24, 2019, 11:38:02 AM

How about traditional Catholic teaching on ѕυιcιdє?

When I was growing up before VII, if anyone committed ѕυιcιdє (which rarely happened - it wasn't a fashionable thing to do back then and only became so when the stigma of doing it was removed - kind of like having a baby out of wedlock), or if a baby died without baptism, they were buried in an unconsecrated section in the Catholic cemetery. I don't think there was a funeral Mass either. Only some prayers said at graveside.

But I received a flyer in the mail the other day from the Marian priests in Stockbridge, Massachusetts, and in advertising a certain book ("After ѕυιcιdє") it said "The Catholic Church does not teach that someone who commits ѕυιcιdє automatically goes to hell" but I am almost certain that I was taught that they did because it was a mortal sin, and if you died with only one on your soul, you went to hell.

Prior to Vatican II, there were no Catholic funerals for people who committed ѕυιcιdє. However there it recognized that there was the possibility of contrition that was accepted by God. For example, St John Vianney told a certain widow that her deceased husband who had committed ѕυιcιdє that he was in Purgatory.
Today it is recognized that in many instances a diminished mental capacity could mitigate the culpability in these situations.

BOTHY · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2019, 08:57:20 AM »

Quote from: poche on June 25, 2019, 11:03:32 PM

Prior to Vatican II, there were no Catholic funerals for people who committed ѕυιcιdє.

That's not true. My cousin's husband, an NYPD cop, publicly shot himself in July of 1950 on the same day that another NYPD cop killed himself. Both officers were buried in Catholic cemeteries preceded by Requiem Masses. I have the newspaper clippings. Perhaps something changed with the 1917 Canon Law.

2Vermont · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2019, 09:59:52 AM »

Quote from: BOTHY on June 26, 2019, 08:57:20 AM

That's not true. My cousin's husband, an NYPD cop, publicly shot himself in July of 1950 on the same day that another NYPD cop killed himself. Both officers were buried in Catholic cemeteries preceded by Requiem Masses. I have the newspaper clippings. Perhaps something changed with the 1917 Canon Law.

I tried to find the exact wording of the the 1917 Canon Law, but could not find it. However, it always described as more strict than the 1983 version.

Was this a private mass? It may be that this was allowed if done privately to avoid scandal. I highly doubt it was handled the way the Novus Ordo sect handles "masses" of those who commit ѕυιcιdє. The New Catechism doesn't even mention sin nor the deprivation of mass/ecclesiastical burial.

BOTHY · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2019, 11:52:26 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on June 26, 2019, 09:59:52 AM

I tried to find the exact wording of the the 1917 Canon Law, but could not find it. However, it always described as more strict than the 1983 version.

Was this a private mass? It may be that this was allowed if done privately to avoid scandal. I highly doubt it was handled the way the Novus Ordo sect handles "masses" of those who commit ѕυιcιdє. The New Catechism doesn't even mention sin nor the deprivation of mass/ecclesiastical burial.

I've attached the newspaper story and an obituary.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Question (Read 3018 times)

TKGS

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poche

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2Vermont

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BOTHY

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