Author Topic: Purgatory according to Maria Simma of Austria (Read 7268 times)

InfiniteFaith · « **on:** March 08, 2014, 01:47:52 PM »

http://www.michaeljournal.org/simma.htm

Cera · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2014, 02:42:02 PM »

I read the book -- actually authored by a Medagoria follower. He (the co-author) claimed that the souls told her that Medjagoria was legitimate. She may not actually have said this; she seems legitimate herself and may have been exploited by this person who offered to write the book for her.

soulguard · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2014, 03:12:02 PM »

I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

Matto · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2014, 03:18:24 PM »

What does Maria Simma have to say about Vatican II and the Novus Ordo?

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2014, 03:26:47 PM »

As late as 1963 when the majority of Catholics still have Catholic
ethos, book like this would be shunned and put of the index of
forbidden books even by John XXlll.

This book would be denounced from every Catholic pulpit at a
time at the time when there was almost 100% Mass attendance.

That you can live a life of serious mortal sin and somehow be saved,
shows that lack of Catholic beliefs there are today.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2014, 03:38:02 PM »

Quote from: soulguard

I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

First off, I am not going to say that your premises are wrong. They could in fact be correct. However, consider a soul who committed sodomy (after Baptism), and then later repented. The soul would have to go to Purgatory in order to pay that back. So I can see how there are souls in Purgatory paying back the sin of sodomy.

Secondly, the woman who committed abortion may have attempted an imperfect act of contrition before passing away. If this soul did so, then God may have allowed the soul to enter into Purgatory to pay this sin back. My only problem with what Maria Simma said is that this particular soul made it to Heaven before the person who committed calumny. I am confident that a soul would spend a lot more time in Purgatory for an abortion than it would for calumny. Unless somehow this soul received a full indulgence before dying. To be honest it doesn't sound like it, but it could be possible.

On second thought, the way that Maria Simma put it was not very good. If there were circuмstances that lessened culpability to such an extent then they should have been talked about. If you take what she said the wrong way then it does seem very much liberal. I do think that the Church was dealing with liberalism even in the early 20th century (during her time), and it wasn't until Vatican II that this liberalism became doctrine. I don't want to judge her, but it does seem that this is false. It certainly is not official doctrine or anything either.

Also, I don't know as if God would allow for a soul to visit Maria Simma, ask for Maria to endure some of the souls suffering, and then by Maria doing so lessen the time the soul would have to spend in Purgatory. But then again, I am not God and I can not say for sure that it is not possible.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2014, 04:31:02 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: soulguard
I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

But then again, I am not God and I can not say for sure that it is not possible.

Oh, so you're not God?

I'm so glad you cleared that up. Let no one be subject to any confusion!

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2014, 08:30:34 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: soulguard
I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

But then again, I am not God and I can not say for sure that it is not possible.

Oh, so you're not God?

I'm so glad you cleared that up. Let no one be subject to any confusion!

Last time I checked that is. :wink:

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2014, 09:18:09 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: soulguard
I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

But then again, I am not God and I can not say for sure that it is not possible.

Oh, so you're not God?

I'm so glad you cleared that up. Let no one be subject to any confusion!

Last time I checked that is. :wink:

Gosh, maybe you can evolve. You ought to check out the Mormons, they teach that as "doctrine." Their Book of Mormon adds the word "a" to St. John i. 1, to say, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a God."

Sound good?

.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2014, 09:44:59 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: soulguard
I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

But then again, I am not God and I can not say for sure that it is not possible.

Oh, so you're not God?

I'm so glad you cleared that up. Let no one be subject to any confusion!

Last time I checked that is. :wink:

Gosh, maybe you can evolve. You ought to check out the Mormons, they teach that as "doctrine." Their Book of Mormon adds the word "a" to St. John i. 1, to say, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a God."

Sound good?

.

Are you trying to teach me a lesson in humility? :sign-surrender:

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:04:35 PM »

.

It's not all about YOU. This is a matter of universal application. Try to pull your head out of the sand and see the topic for what it is, not just as you FEEL about it.

I am referring to doctrine. Are you (or anyone else for that matter) okay with adding one word to Scripture as I showed you? Do you think it's okay to put the letter "a" in John i. 1, like that?

Or not? That should be a simple enough question.

.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:06:07 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

.

It's not all about YOU.

I am referring to doctrine. Are you okay with adding one word to Scripture as I showed you? Do you think it's okay to put the letter "a" in John i. 1, like that?

Or not? That should be a simple enough question.

.

Its not OK. I think I see now what you are getting at.

poche · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:24:35 PM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

As late as 1963 when the majority of Catholics still have Catholic
ethos, book like this would be shunned and put of the index of
forbidden books even by John XXlll.

This book would be denounced from every Catholic pulpit at a
time at the time when there was almost 100% Mass attendance.

That you can live a life of serious mortal sin and somehow be saved,
shows that lack of Catholic beliefs there are today.

If you make an act of perfect contrition at the time of death you can be saved.

poche · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:26:13 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: soulguard
I dont believe she is genuine.

1 "A woman died while killing her baby in an abortion and goes to heaven"
whereas the man who died goes to purgatory because he said calumny

2 "ѕυιcιdє is due to "ilness" ( acceptance of psychiatry and its myth of chemical imbalance which has been proven to be a fraud and without the slightest scientific proof whatsoever - a lie cannot be believed by God)

3 there are sodomites in purgatory

4 souls that came to her blamed others who were more wicked then them

IMO

First off, I am not going to say that your premises are wrong. They could in fact be correct. However, consider a soul who committed sodomy (after Baptism), and then later repented. The soul would have to go to Purgatory in order to pay that back. So I can see how there are souls in Purgatory paying back the sin of sodomy.

Secondly, the woman who committed abortion may have attempted an imperfect act of contrition before passing away. If this soul did so, then God may have allowed the soul to enter into Purgatory to pay this sin back. My only problem with what Maria Simma said is that this particular soul made it to Heaven before the person who committed calumny. I am confident that a soul would spend a lot more time in Purgatory for an abortion than it would for calumny. Unless somehow this soul received a full indulgence before dying. To be honest it doesn't sound like it, but it could be possible.

On second thought, the way that Maria Simma put it was not very good. If there were circuмstances that lessened culpability to such an extent then they should have been talked about. If you take what she said the wrong way then it does seem very much liberal. I do think that the Church was dealing with liberalism even in the early 20th century (during her time), and it wasn't until Vatican II that this liberalism became doctrine. I don't want to judge her, but it does seem that this is false. It certainly is not official doctrine or anything either.

Also, I don't know as if God would allow for a soul to visit Maria Simma, ask for Maria to endure some of the souls suffering, and then by Maria doing so lessen the time the soul would have to spend in Purgatory. But then again, I am not God and I can not say for sure that it is not possible.

Abortion kills one person. Depending on the calumny, many people could have been killed.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:26:33 PM »

.

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

It's not all about YOU.

I am referring to doctrine. Are you okay with adding one word to Scripture as I showed you? Do you think it's okay to put the letter "a" in John i. 1, like that?

Or not? That should be a simple enough question.

.

Its not OK. I think I see now what you are getting at.

It's nice you think you see what I'm getting at, but since you're not summarizing it, I have no idea what you see or what you don't see.

My revised version is as follows:

Quote

It's not all about YOU. This is a matter of universal application. Try to pull your head out of the sand and see the topic for what it is, not just as you FEEL about it.

I am referring to doctrine. Are you (or anyone else for that matter) okay with adding one word to Scripture as I showed you? Do you think it's okay to put the letter "a" in John i. 1, like that?

Or not? That should be a simple enough question.

You replied before I finished editing my post, but no big difference.

The Church's doctrine on Purgatory is not a play-toy at the dispense of everyone who wants to have their way with it. It is not subject to revision by mystical visions of luminaries; not now, not ever. St. Paul warned us about these kinds of things. Read Gal. i. 8-9.

This is one of the key points of Catholic Tradition, which carries EQUAL WEIGHT with the authority of Scripture. This is the principal difference between how the Church teaches and how non-Catholics disbelieve. So it's not a small matter.

I have heard ostensibly Catholic priests claim that the Church's doctrine on Purgatory is not official, because it hasn't been defined.

Purgatory does not have to be the subject of dogmatic definition before it is a doctrine of the Church. It is much more than mere theological speculation, although there is a lot of speculation going around in its regard.

There is no way, for example, that there could have been indulgences given for the relief of souls in Purgatory for the entire history of the Church if Purgatory was not a doctrine of the Church. That would be stupid.

.