Author Topic: Problems with transgender surgery (Read 7076 times)

Graham · « **on:** July 04, 2014, 02:36:51 PM »

Quote

This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken—it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.

[...]

When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned.

[...]

The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their ѕυιcιdє mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.

[...]

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. "Sex change" is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

SerpKerp · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2014, 08:11:39 PM »

I deeply agree, but is there a way to get past the pay wall?

Graham · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2014, 09:23:29 PM »

Oh, pardon me. I didn't realize there was one. Try this:

http://tinyurl.com/nfngtmz

SerpKerp · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2014, 10:19:05 PM »

About .002% of society identifies as TranssɛҳuąƖ.

While 1% of Society suffers from Schizophrenia.

Think about that whenever the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Alphabet soup lobbies for so called transsɛҳuąƖ rights.

Cato · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2014, 11:50:13 PM »

I doubt anyone here supports transgender surgery.

Judas Machabeus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2014, 11:03:15 AM »

There are some questions worth asking in this regard.

Assuming that at least some cases of transsɛҳuąƖism are caused by sex atypical brain structure, most likely caused in turn by anomalies in the hormonal environment in the uterus, is a brain that is cross-sexed in some respect and to some degree of less concern than ambiguous genitalia in intersexed individuals?

Even if it is of less concern, is it of no concern? Is it of enough concern in some of these cases that it could be medically necessary to change the sɛҳuąƖ phenotype to the extent possible if the more female brain structure in some XY males cannot be changed?

Should the brain also be considered part of the body?

Can the discomfort caused by these sex atypical brain structures be cured in every case by psychotherapy? By drugs? If not, is the discomfort serious enough to warrant some other kind of treatment, including hormones and/or surgery?

What does the Church teach about permissible treatment of intersex conditions?

Does the teaching of the Church on the ethics of medical treatment for intersex conditions provide any guidance on treatment of transsɛҳuąƖism if the science proves that at least some transsɛҳuąƖs have brain structures that are more characteristic of the sex opposite their chromosomal and phenotypic sex?

Jaynek · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2014, 09:07:07 PM »

Why assume that some cases of transgenderism are caused by atypical brain structure? Do we assume this about anorexia or dysmorphic disorder? Don't we seek evidence of physiological basis of diseases rather than assume it?

The article in the OP was written by the former chief of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins. He considers it to be a psychiatric disorder so why would we assume something else.

It is your wishful thinking that leads you to assume it. But you have a disorder that impairs your grasp of reality. We should not be following your lead.

Brennus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2014, 09:50:08 PM »

Quote from: Jaynek

Why assume that some cases of transgenderism are caused by atypical brain structure? Do we assume this about anorexia or dysmorphic disorder? Don't we seek evidence of physiological basis of diseases rather than assume it?

The article in the OP was written by the former chief of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins. He considers it to be a psychiatric disorder so why would we assume something else.

It is your wishful thinking that leads you to assume it. But you have a disorder that impairs your grasp of reality. We should not be following your lead.

Oh HECK, another one of these threads. Jaynek, I think you are a big phoney baloney. I don't know WHAT you stand for. At least with Impy Clare creature, I know.

Nevertheless, you two are probably in cahoots. I sometimes wonder how much of this stuff posted on these sites is real opinion, and how much is engineered.

I'm tired of it and won't post here anymore. I quit that crazy fisheaters site, and now I think I shall quit the Internet for good, at least or a while.

It's all such madness

Jaynek · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2014, 05:00:27 AM »

Quote from: Brennus

Oh HECK, another one of these threads. Jaynek, I think you are a big phoney baloney. I don't know WHAT you stand for. At least with Impy Clare creature, I know.

Nevertheless, you two are probably in cahoots. I sometimes wonder how much of this stuff posted on these sites is real opinion, and how much is engineered.

I started out supporting Impy in his wish to be called a woman. I eventually realized that this was false compassion and not compatible with Catholic teaching. I refused to do it any longer and was banned from Fisheaters for my refusal. I no longer post there. I have not for months.

I am not in cahoots with Impy. I am concerned that he did not receive the proper treatment for his problems and that the "support" he receives on Fish Eaters probably makes his condition worse.

I can not speak for anyone else, but I always post my real opinions.

Stubborn · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2014, 05:59:09 AM »

Hello Jayne, and yes, I'd agree that you always post your real opinions.

How terrible it will be for those fools when they face God as a freak female after being created male. They won't even get the chance to let God know He got it wrong. "What horror must invade the mind, when the approaching Judge shall find, and sift the deeds of ~~all mankind~~ that perverted soul!

They spend their life in self pity and depression, then burn in hell for their eternity. Mother of Mercy how awful!

I know that persons afflicted with this perversion have something wrong with their brain, yet I find it hard to accept that the root of the affliction is not the result of personal sin - or sins of the parents. I don't know about that, but either way, somewhere along the way, that person must have done something that was deeply offensive to God to have let himself get deeper and deeper into the whole "transgender" abomination to the point that they seek surgical "correction".

I also do not understand how anyone, particularly a Catholic, can ever in any way accept such a hideous thing. Can they not meditate for just a moment on the gravity of the offense against God, or meditate for a moment on that person's particular judgement as if they were him?

ggreg · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2014, 06:29:11 AM »

Quote from: Brennus

I sometimes wonder how much of this stuff posted on these sites is real opinion, and how much is engineered.

I'm tired of it and won't post here anymore. I quit that crazy fisheaters site, and now I think I shall quit the Internet for good, at least or a while.

It's all such madness

I think 99.9 percent is real opinion.

The world is mad.

ggreg · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2014, 06:31:13 AM »

Quote from: Judas Machabeus

What does the Church teach about permissible treatment of intersex conditions?

How would we know?

According to you and Jayne K it is all written in some "secret docuмent".

We haven't seen that docuмent.

Jaynek · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2014, 09:12:07 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: Judas Machabeus
What does the Church teach about permissible treatment of intersex conditions?

How would we know?

According to you and Jayne K it is all written in some "secret docuмent".

We haven't seen that docuмent.

Would you please not attribute views to me that I do not hold.

I am 100% for following Church teaching as presented in her public docuмents. I have never, even at my most wrong about this, said that we should be trying to follow secret docuмents. The idea is obviously absurd.

Jaynek · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2014, 09:15:08 AM »

Why all the down votes on my posts against transgender surgery? I did not expect to find anyone here other than Impy in favour of it.

ggreg · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2014, 12:13:32 PM »

Quote from: Jaynek

Would you please not attribute views to me that I do not hold.

http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=265

The views you 'hold' appear to vary by forum.

Btw, the way both she and Vox justify backing Impy's sex change is by claiming he was actually a woman born in a male body, so it isn't a sex change, just the correction of a birth defect. Despite the fact that brain scans of post mortem transsɛҳuąƖs showed results between male and female, NOT female; and since they were post mortem, you get into the nature vs nurture argument, among so many other good points there's no need to rehash.

But that's the kind of thought process we're dealing with. They can "honestly" say they don't support transsɛҳuąƖism when they deem someone not to be switching genders, just correcting birth defects. It's devious.