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Author Topic: Prayers for Jєωιѕн people who were attacked  (Read 7436 times)

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Offline X

Re: Prayers for Jєωιѕн people who were attacked
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2019, 06:52:24 AM »
Incredibly difficult question.

For me, this is the clearest, most succinct understanding:

FR. A. TANQUERY
Dogmatic Brevior; ART. IV, Section I, II - 1945 (1024-1):

"The Baptism of Desire. Contrition, or perfect charity, with at least an implicit desire for Baptism, supplies in adults the place of the baptism of water as respects the forgiveness of sins.

This is certain.

Explanation:

a) An implicit desire for Baptism, that is, one that is included in a general purpose of keeping all the commandments of God is, as all agree, sufficient in one who is invincibly ignorant of the law of Baptism; likewise, according to the more common opinion, in one who knows the necessity of Baptism.

b) Perfect charity, with a desire for Baptism [implicit or explicit], forgives original sin and actual sins, and therefore infuses sanctifying grace; but it does not imprint the Baptismal character and does not of itself remit the whole temporal punishment due for sin; whence, when the Unity offers, the obligation remains on
one who was sanctified in this manner of receiving the Baptism of water."


Additionally:

It is certain that all who die infused with sanctifying grace are saved (God's grace is not communicated to the reprobates in hell);

It is certain that sanctifying grace can operate outside the visible Church (e.g., valid baptisms in some sects, etc.);

It is certain that men can be joined to the Church by sanctifying grace, even though they are not members of the visible Church;

It is never certain if or whether any particular person has met the requirement of implicit baptism of desire, because making this determination requires knowledge of the internal forum, which is known to God alone.


Therefore, in the case of the Jewess, was she saved?

The presumption is that this Jewess died a Jewess, and therefore was damned.

The possibility is that this Jewess had an at least implicit desire for baptism, but only God can know.


Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Prayers for Jєωιѕн people who were attacked
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2019, 06:59:43 AM »
Incredibly difficult question.

For me, this is the clearest, most succinct understanding:

FR. A. TANQUERY
Dogmatic Brevior; ART. IV, Section I, II - 1945 (1024-1):

"The Baptism of Desire. Contrition, or perfect charity, with at least an implicit desire for Baptism, supplies in adults the place of the baptism of water as respects the forgiveness of sins.

This is certain.

Explanation:

a) An implicit desire for Baptism, that is, one that is included in a general purpose of keeping all the commandments of God is, as all agree, sufficient in one who is invincibly ignorant of the law of Baptism; likewise, according to the more common opinion, in one who knows the necessity of Baptism.

b) Perfect charity, with a desire for Baptism [implicit or explicit], forgives original sin and actual sins, and therefore infuses sanctifying grace; but it does not imprint the Baptismal character and does not of itself remit the whole temporal punishment due for sin; whence, when the Unity offers, the obligation remains on
one who was sanctified in this manner of receiving the Baptism of water."


Additionally:

It is certain that all who die infused with sanctifying grace are saved (God's grace is not communicated to the reprobates in hell);

It is certain that sanctifying grace can operate outside the visible Church (e.g., valid baptisms in some sects, etc.);

It is certain that men can be joined to the Church by sanctifying grace, even though they are not members of the visible Church;

It is never certain if or whether any particular person has met the requirement of implicit baptism of desire, because making this determination requires knowledge of the internal forum, which is known to God alone.


Therefore, in the case of the Jewess, was she saved?

The presumption is that this Jewess died a Jewess, and therefore was damned.

The possibility is that this Jewess had an at least implicit desire for baptism, but only God can know.
Nice post, however I would add the words “very remote” before the word possibility.


Offline X

Re: Prayers for Jєωιѕн people who were attacked
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2019, 07:05:22 AM »
Nice post, however I would add the words “very remote” before the word possibility.

Yes, unfortunately, I would have to agree:

The fidelity to God's laws as known to the invincibly ignorant would have to be accomplished without the aid of the sacraments, making such fidelity exceedingly difficult.

Heaven knows, such fidelity is difficult enough even with the aid of the sacraments!

Re: Prayers for Jєωιѕн people who were attacked
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2019, 10:39:56 AM »
I leave the question of who is saved and who is not to God.
That is non-answer, it is just the cowards way out.

Here is how a Catholic is commanded to answer the question:

The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Blessed Pope St. Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

“It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.



Re: Prayers for Jєωιѕн people who were attacked
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2019, 10:47:28 AM »
It is my hope that they embraced Our Lord with their last breath.
There is nothing wrong with this answer in the sense that the writer is praying that the person converted, which is the only way he could be saved, provided that he was unknowingly baptized during his life at some time. It is a well known fact that Catholic nannies would secretly baptize the children of the Jews that they worked for and nurses baptized the sick.

All of the above is very rare, and always remember that it is God that took that person's life by surprise, with an untimely death. If the person was going to convert, God could have kept them alive for another 50 years if need be. Everyone that is in Hell, had they been allowed to live 1000 years, would have continued in their rejection of Our Lord Jesus Christ, His Mother, and His Church, and even today in Hell, they continue to despise Our Lord Jesus Christ, His Mother, and His Church.