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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: JeffreyAugustine on January 04, 2018, 11:56:56 AM

Title: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: JeffreyAugustine on January 04, 2018, 11:56:56 AM
Pax vobis.

I have a major concern with this post from my Norvus Ordo parish and Dominican Priory.  

Can you please help me to respond to the pastor of this parish against this?

Maybe I am off base with finding concern with this?

All Catholics, especially those of Anglican, Episcopalian, and Methodist backgrounds, are invited to join us in celebrating Evening Prayer according to the rich and ancient liturgical tradition of the English Catholic patrimony. Prayer begins at 7:30pm in the main church immediately after adoration. Drinks and fellowship after. 

PAX,

Augustine 
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Mega-fin on January 04, 2018, 12:14:01 PM
Step 1: leave the Novus Ordo. 

Step 2: you can try to reason with heretics, but you’re going to be the one leaving frustrated. Heresy cuts faith out of our souls, so expecting heretics to conform to the faith is going to make you pull your hair out. I know from experience. 
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Marlelar on January 04, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
As far as the NO is concerned prayer w/other "faiths" is desirable.  JP2, B16, F1 were/are all big supporters of "inter-religious" activities so it is no surprise that your NO "priory" would start something like that.  There will be no changing the mind of the prior, he is saturated with the NO mentality.

M-F is correct, run, do not walk, away from the NO.
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Meg on January 04, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
Pax vobis.

I have a major concern with this post from my Norvus Ordo parish and Dominican Priory.  

Can you please help me to respond to the pastor of this parish against this?

Maybe I am off base with finding concern with this?

All Catholics, especially those of Anglican, Episcopalian, and Methodist backgrounds, are invited to join us in celebrating Evening Prayer according to the rich and ancient liturgical tradition of the English Catholic patrimony. Prayer begins at 7:30pm in the main church immediately after adoration. Drinks and fellowship after.

PAX,

Augustine

Do you happen to know if the celebration of Evening Prayer at that church included only Roman Catholic prayers? If it did, then I don't see a big problem. After all, how does anyone convert to the Catholic faith without first going to Mass, and praying along with Catholics?

Of course if non-Catholic prayers were being said, then that's a problem. 
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Nadir on January 04, 2018, 04:23:14 PM

Quote
Evening Prayer according to the rich and ancient liturgical tradition of the English Catholic patrimony.
This might mean that they using the approved-by-Rome Anglican-Catholic "tradition". I went to Mass once understanding that I was attending a traditional Latin Mass, but on attendance I found that it was a Catholic Mass according to the Anglican tradition. So find out what the above quote means, but do not attend.

Check out http://www.ordinariate.org.au/ There is probably something similar in the USA.

I just noticed this 
Quote
All Catholics, especially those of Anglican, Episcopalian, and Methodist backgrounds,

which makes me think that I might be right. It looks like they are catering to converts to the Novus Ordo, who see themselves as Catholics.
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Marlelar on January 04, 2018, 04:32:32 PM
Do you happen to know if the celebration of Evening Prayer at that church included only Roman Catholic prayers? If it did, then I don't see a big problem. After all, how does anyone convert to the Catholic faith without first going to Mass, and praying along with Catholics?

Of course if non-Catholic prayers were being said, then that's a problem.
I've never heard of Roman Catholics having a "celebration of Evening prayer".  We have Vespers at 6pm and Compline at 9pm.  Whatever it is they are doing at 7:30, it is not Catholic.  Not to mention they are having a snort and "fellowship" afterwards!  Guess that is why Baptists were not invited, they shun alcohol under any circuмstances.
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: MaterDominici on January 04, 2018, 05:43:49 PM
Is "English Catholic" synonymous with "Anglican Use"?
We have a large NO church in this area that I've only ever heard referred to as "Anglican Use", but I wouldn't be surprised if they've changed the verbiage to something more palatable to Catholics at large.
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Nadir on January 04, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
I might be barking up the wrong tree, but here is the link to the American Ordinariate. You could see if your NO Parish is listed: http://ordinariate.net/communities

This too will be of interest:
http://www.ordinariate.org.au/the-book-of-common-prayer/
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Meg on January 05, 2018, 10:19:56 AM
I've never heard of Roman Catholics having a "celebration of Evening prayer".  We have Vespers at 6pm and Compline at 9pm.  Whatever it is they are doing at 7:30, it is not Catholic.  Not to mention they are having a snort and "fellowship" afterwards!  Guess that is why Baptists were not invited, they shun alcohol under any circuмstances.

You may be right.

However, the O.P. says that there's a Dominican priory and N.O. church. I have to wonder if it's a Dominican church attached to the priory. Dominican parishes are not usually under the local diocese, but they are their own entity, sort of. I attended a Dominican church for two years between the years I attended the Indult.

Also, the O.P. says that the prayers were after adoration. When I attended the N.O. Dominican church, they offered, several times a year, a "Mercy Night," of adoration, prayer, music and confession. Parishioners were encouraged to invite non-Catholics.

It could indeed be Anglican use, but it could also be Dominican.
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: JeffreyAugustine on January 05, 2018, 11:51:09 AM
I very much appreciate all of your posts, most insightful.

I think I will ask the prior more about this based on the feedback that I have received.

This priory is one of a few that offers the Dominican Rite Mass often (at least on Sunday).

I attend the NO Mass during the week and Dominican Rite on Sunday. I try to attend the TLM as often as possible but it is offered by NO priests.

There is an SSPX chapel in my area but I have not attended there yet.

I will be attending daily Mass in the Philippines at an SSPX parish (Our Lady of Victories in Quezon City) starting in a few weeks as I am moving there. 

I am reading a lot on the SSPX site to better understand the validity of holy orders and the sacraments by priests that were ordained in the new rite and the new Mass\Marriage\Confirmation etc. 

I am questioning if my Baptism (very NO priest) and Confirmation (very NO Archbishop) is even valid due to lack of intent (I am reading up on the intent part as I think this is the major crux when it comes to validity). Furthermore, I am to be married soon by a NO priest according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is for another thread though.

Blessings!

PAX,

Jeffrey
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Meg on January 05, 2018, 03:22:32 PM
I very much appreciate all of your posts, most insightful.

I think I will ask the prior more about this based on the feedback that I have received.

This priory is one of a few that offers the Dominican Rite Mass often (at least on Sunday).

I attend the NO Mass during the week and Dominican Rite on Sunday. I try to attend the TLM as often as possible but it is offered by NO priests.

There is an SSPX chapel in my area but I have not attended there yet.

I will be attending daily Mass in the Philippines at an SSPX parish (Our Lady of Victories in Quezon City) starting in a few weeks as I am moving there.

I am reading a lot on the SSPX site to better understand the validity of holy orders and the sacraments by priests that were ordained in the new rite and the new Mass\Marriage\Confirmation etc.

I am questioning if my Baptism (very NO priest) and Confirmation (very NO Archbishop) is even valid due to lack of intent (I am reading up on the intent part as I think this is the major crux when it comes to validity). Furthermore, I am to be married soon by a NO priest according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is for another thread though.

Blessings!

PAX,

Jeffrey

I love the Dominican Rite Mass. They offered it a few times a year at the N.O. Dominican church here, but they eventually stopped it altogether. I asked the new pastor to offer it on a regular basis, and spoke to the choir director about it, but it didn't help, as they have to cater to the liberal element at that church. It's sad how they don't even really seem connected to St. Dominic at all.

I hope that you will attend your local SSPX church. It's a step up from the Novus Ordo and diocesan TLM, and they might be able to help you with determining the validity of your baptism. Of course the best thing to do would be to find a Resistance Mass in your area, if there is one. But I realize that you might not be there yet.

Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: graceseeker on January 06, 2018, 12:43:00 PM
Step 1: leave the Novus Ordo.

Step 2: you can try to reason with heretics, but you’re going to be the one leaving frustrated. Heresy cuts faith out of our souls, so expecting heretics to conform to the faith is going to make you pull your hair out. I know from experience.
If a NO Mass is the only one available, do you think a person should not go?
I don't live close to a "good" Church
I really dislike the priest at the NO Church nearby
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Mega-fin on January 06, 2018, 01:13:11 PM
If a NO Mass is the only one available, do you think a person should not go?
I don't live close to a "good" Church
I really dislike the priest at the NO Church nearby
No, a person should not go. The new Mass has no real guarantee on its validity for starters, and the whole atmosphere will lead one to not have the Catholic faith. So it’s best to stay home and sanctify your Sunday that way. 
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: graceseeker on January 11, 2018, 04:21:12 PM
No, a person should not go. The new Mass has no real guarantee on its validity for starters, and the whole atmosphere will lead one to not have the Catholic faith. So it’s best to stay home and sanctify your Sunday that way.
I don't know if I agree but maybe this is a good advice for particularly "Churches"?
I don't think all NO masses apply (to your comments)
I have felt the Holy Spirit at work in me at a lot of NO masses, even the one where I dislike the priest and think he is (was?) a heretic. I don't know if he has repented or not but... anyway..
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Mega-fin on January 11, 2018, 07:01:25 PM
I don't know if I agree but maybe this is a good advice for particularly "Churches"?
I don't think all NO masses apply (to your comments)
I have felt the Holy Spirit at work in me at a lot of NO masses, even the one where I dislike the priest and think he is (was?) a heretic. I don't know if he has repented or not but... anyway..
Whether we feel the Holy Ghost or not doesn’t really matter. The Holy Ghost isn’t a feeling, He is a person, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity. 
The NO is a defective rite. It does not give the Catholic faith, but a Protestant faith, which leads to a loss of the faith. There are actual prayers that speak heresy, like the Good Friday prayer for the Jєωs. 
This is not a question of whether a NO is valid. The schismatics who call themselves “orthodox” have valid liturgies, but it’s a mortal sin to attend them. 
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Neil Obstat on January 11, 2018, 07:28:22 PM
.

Quote from: graceseeker on Today at 02:21:12 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/prayer-with-non-catholics/msg588643/#msg588643)
Quote
I don't know if I agree but maybe this is a good advice for particularly "Churches"?
I don't think all NO masses apply (to your comments)
I have felt the Holy Spirit at work in me at a lot of NO masses, even the one where I dislike the priest and think he is (was?) a heretic. I don't know if he has repented or not but... anyway..
.
Whether we feel the Holy Ghost or not doesn’t really matter. The Holy Ghost isn’t a feeling, He is a person, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity.
.
It is a Protestant concept that one should have physical sensation from the influence of the Holy Ghost.
.
It's one of their heresies where they say unless you can "feel" it, it's not real. So that's why they say the Catholic Church isn't the real faith since when we receive Confirmation we don't feel the grace.
.
But it's Catholic teaching, and always has been, that no feeling should be expected at Confirmation. The same applies to Baptism, Confession, Holy Communion, Holy Orders, Matrimony and Extreme Unction. None of the Sacraments impart a "feeling" that is sensible to us.
.
Now what's going on is since Vat.II the Novus Ordo has become Protestantized and that's why Novus Ordo parishes are spreading this error that sensation accompanies grace. That's just a lie, being promoted to make the Protestants feel comfortable.  Next, they'll be welcome to Holy Communion, and Catholics won't have a priest but they'll say it doesn't matter, and so on.
.
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: Mega-fin on January 12, 2018, 08:18:24 PM
.
Whether we feel the Holy Ghost or not doesn’t really matter. The Holy Ghost isn’t a feeling, He is a person, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

.
It is a Protestant concept that one should have physical sensation from the influence of the Holy Ghost.
.
It's one of their heresies where they say unless you can "feel" it, it's not real. So that's why they say the Catholic Church isn't the real faith since when we receive Confirmation we don't feel the grace.
.
But it's Catholic teaching, and always has been, that no feeling should be expected at Confirmation. The same applies to Baptism, Confession, Holy Communion, Holy Orders, Matrimony and Extreme Unction. None of the Sacraments impart a "feeling" that is sensible to us.
.
Now what's going on is since Vat.II the Novus Ordo has become Protestantized and that's why Novus Ordo parishes are spreading this error that sensation accompanies grace. That's just a lie, being promoted to make the Protestants feel comfortable.  Next, they'll be welcome to Holy Communion, and Catholics won't have a priest but they'll say it doesn't matter, and so on.
.
Exactly! Our feelings are like the wind. Feelings change so rapidly that they can be impossible to follow. Between my own relatives and in laws who buy into the “emotional religious experience” baloney, whenever I hear in trad circles that feelings equate to infallible truth it drives me batty. The Holy Ghost is a person of the Blessed Trinity, not an emotion. It’s also Francis-speak. If you “feel” with your individual conscience that you are just “a-ok” with God while living in mortal sin, it’s all just good. 
Title: Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on January 13, 2018, 01:23:51 AM
We can't rely on "feelings". We mortals can't know for certain if they are actually consolations from God, or if they are the result of our own emotions, or even possibly imposed upon us by demons who wish to deceive us. The whole "feelings" thing is the result of Protestant cooties that have infected the NO.