Author Topic: Prayer with non-Catholics  (Read 1030 times)

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Offline JeffreyAugustine

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Prayer with non-Catholics
« on: January 04, 2018, 11:56:56 AM »
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  • Pax vobis.

    I have a major concern with this post from my Norvus Ordo parish and Dominican Priory.  

    Can you please help me to respond to the pastor of this parish against this?

    Maybe I am off base with finding concern with this?

    All Catholics, especially those of Anglican, Episcopalian, and Methodist backgrounds, are invited to join us in celebrating Evening Prayer according to the rich and ancient liturgical tradition of the English Catholic patrimony. Prayer begins at 7:30pm in the main church immediately after adoration. Drinks and fellowship after. 

    PAX,

    Augustine 

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 12:14:01 PM »
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  • Step 1: leave the Novus Ordo. 

    Step 2: you can try to reason with heretics, but you’re going to be the one leaving frustrated. Heresy cuts faith out of our souls, so expecting heretics to conform to the faith is going to make you pull your hair out. I know from experience. 


    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 01:28:27 PM »
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  • As far as the NO is concerned prayer w/other "faiths" is desirable.  JP2, B16, F1 were/are all big supporters of "inter-religious" activities so it is no surprise that your NO "priory" would start something like that.  There will be no changing the mind of the prior, he is saturated with the NO mentality.

    M-F is correct, run, do not walk, away from the NO.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 03:04:17 PM »
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  • Pax vobis.

    I have a major concern with this post from my Norvus Ordo parish and Dominican Priory.  

    Can you please help me to respond to the pastor of this parish against this?

    Maybe I am off base with finding concern with this?

    All Catholics, especially those of Anglican, Episcopalian, and Methodist backgrounds, are invited to join us in celebrating Evening Prayer according to the rich and ancient liturgical tradition of the English Catholic patrimony. Prayer begins at 7:30pm in the main church immediately after adoration. Drinks and fellowship after.

    PAX,

    Augustine

    Do you happen to know if the celebration of Evening Prayer at that church included only Roman Catholic prayers? If it did, then I don't see a big problem. After all, how does anyone convert to the Catholic faith without first going to Mass, and praying along with Catholics?

    Of course if non-Catholic prayers were being said, then that's a problem. 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 04:23:14 PM »
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  • Quote
    Evening Prayer according to the rich and ancient liturgical tradition of the English Catholic patrimony.
    This might mean that they using the approved-by-Rome Anglican-Catholic "tradition". I went to Mass once understanding that I was attending a traditional Latin Mass, but on attendance I found that it was a Catholic Mass according to the Anglican tradition. So find out what the above quote means, but do not attend.

    Check out http://www.ordinariate.org.au/ There is probably something similar in the USA.

    I just noticed this 
    Quote
    All Catholics, especially those of Anglican, Episcopalian, and Methodist backgrounds,

    which makes me think that I might be right. It looks like they are catering to converts to the Novus Ordo, who see themselves as Catholics.


    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 04:32:32 PM »
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  • Do you happen to know if the celebration of Evening Prayer at that church included only Roman Catholic prayers? If it did, then I don't see a big problem. After all, how does anyone convert to the Catholic faith without first going to Mass, and praying along with Catholics?

    Of course if non-Catholic prayers were being said, then that's a problem.
    I've never heard of Roman Catholics having a "celebration of Evening prayer".  We have Vespers at 6pm and Compline at 9pm.  Whatever it is they are doing at 7:30, it is not Catholic.  Not to mention they are having a snort and "fellowship" afterwards!  Guess that is why Baptists were not invited, they shun alcohol under any circumstances.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 05:43:49 PM »
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  • Is "English Catholic" synonymous with "Anglican Use"?
    We have a large NO church in this area that I've only ever heard referred to as "Anglican Use", but I wouldn't be surprised if they've changed the verbiage to something more palatable to Catholics at large.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 08:24:47 PM »
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  • I might be barking up the wrong tree, but here is the link to the American Ordinariate. You could see if your NO Parish is listed: http://ordinariate.net/communities

    This too will be of interest:
    http://www.ordinariate.org.au/the-book-of-common-prayer/


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 10:19:56 AM »
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  • I've never heard of Roman Catholics having a "celebration of Evening prayer".  We have Vespers at 6pm and Compline at 9pm.  Whatever it is they are doing at 7:30, it is not Catholic.  Not to mention they are having a snort and "fellowship" afterwards!  Guess that is why Baptists were not invited, they shun alcohol under any circumstances.

    You may be right.

    However, the O.P. says that there's a Dominican priory and N.O. church. I have to wonder if it's a Dominican church attached to the priory. Dominican parishes are not usually under the local diocese, but they are their own entity, sort of. I attended a Dominican church for two years between the years I attended the Indult.

    Also, the O.P. says that the prayers were after adoration. When I attended the N.O. Dominican church, they offered, several times a year, a "Mercy Night," of adoration, prayer, music and confession. Parishioners were encouraged to invite non-Catholics.

    It could indeed be Anglican use, but it could also be Dominican.

    Offline JeffreyAugustine

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 11:51:09 AM »
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  • I very much appreciate all of your posts, most insightful.

    I think I will ask the prior more about this based on the feedback that I have received.

    This priory is one of a few that offers the Dominican Rite Mass often (at least on Sunday).

    I attend the NO Mass during the week and Dominican Rite on Sunday. I try to attend the TLM as often as possible but it is offered by NO priests.

    There is an SSPX chapel in my area but I have not attended there yet.

    I will be attending daily Mass in the Philippines at an SSPX parish (Our Lady of Victories in Quezon City) starting in a few weeks as I am moving there. 

    I am reading a lot on the SSPX site to better understand the validity of holy orders and the sacraments by priests that were ordained in the new rite and the new Mass\Marriage\Confirmation etc. 

    I am questioning if my Baptism (very NO priest) and Confirmation (very NO Archbishop) is even valid due to lack of intent (I am reading up on the intent part as I think this is the major crux when it comes to validity). Furthermore, I am to be married soon by a NO priest according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is for another thread though.

    Blessings!

    PAX,

    Jeffrey

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 03:22:32 PM »
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  • I very much appreciate all of your posts, most insightful.

    I think I will ask the prior more about this based on the feedback that I have received.

    This priory is one of a few that offers the Dominican Rite Mass often (at least on Sunday).

    I attend the NO Mass during the week and Dominican Rite on Sunday. I try to attend the TLM as often as possible but it is offered by NO priests.

    There is an SSPX chapel in my area but I have not attended there yet.

    I will be attending daily Mass in the Philippines at an SSPX parish (Our Lady of Victories in Quezon City) starting in a few weeks as I am moving there.

    I am reading a lot on the SSPX site to better understand the validity of holy orders and the sacraments by priests that were ordained in the new rite and the new Mass\Marriage\Confirmation etc.

    I am questioning if my Baptism (very NO priest) and Confirmation (very NO Archbishop) is even valid due to lack of intent (I am reading up on the intent part as I think this is the major crux when it comes to validity). Furthermore, I am to be married soon by a NO priest according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is for another thread though.

    Blessings!

    PAX,

    Jeffrey

    I love the Dominican Rite Mass. They offered it a few times a year at the N.O. Dominican church here, but they eventually stopped it altogether. I asked the new pastor to offer it on a regular basis, and spoke to the choir director about it, but it didn't help, as they have to cater to the liberal element at that church. It's sad how they don't even really seem connected to St. Dominic at all.

    I hope that you will attend your local SSPX church. It's a step up from the Novus Ordo and diocesan TLM, and they might be able to help you with determining the validity of your baptism. Of course the best thing to do would be to find a Resistance Mass in your area, if there is one. But I realize that you might not be there yet.



    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 12:43:00 PM »
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  • Step 1: leave the Novus Ordo.

    Step 2: you can try to reason with heretics, but you’re going to be the one leaving frustrated. Heresy cuts faith out of our souls, so expecting heretics to conform to the faith is going to make you pull your hair out. I know from experience.
    If a NO Mass is the only one available, do you think a person should not go?
    I don't live close to a "good" Church
    I really dislike the priest at the NO Church nearby

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 01:13:11 PM »
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  • If a NO Mass is the only one available, do you think a person should not go?
    I don't live close to a "good" Church
    I really dislike the priest at the NO Church nearby
    No, a person should not go. The new Mass has no real guarantee on its validity for starters, and the whole atmosphere will lead one to not have the Catholic faith. So it’s best to stay home and sanctify your Sunday that way. 

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 04:21:12 PM »
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  • No, a person should not go. The new Mass has no real guarantee on its validity for starters, and the whole atmosphere will lead one to not have the Catholic faith. So it’s best to stay home and sanctify your Sunday that way.
    I don't know if I agree but maybe this is a good advice for particularly "Churches"?
    I don't think all NO masses apply (to your comments)
    I have felt the Holy Spirit at work in me at a lot of NO masses, even the one where I dislike the priest and think he is (was?) a heretic. I don't know if he has repented or not but... anyway..

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Prayer with non-Catholics
    « Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 07:01:25 PM »
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  • I don't know if I agree but maybe this is a good advice for particularly "Churches"?
    I don't think all NO masses apply (to your comments)
    I have felt the Holy Spirit at work in me at a lot of NO masses, even the one where I dislike the priest and think he is (was?) a heretic. I don't know if he has repented or not but... anyway..
    Whether we feel the Holy Ghost or not doesn’t really matter. The Holy Ghost isn’t a feeling, He is a person, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity. 
    The NO is a defective rite. It does not give the Catholic faith, but a Protestant faith, which leads to a loss of the faith. There are actual prayers that speak heresy, like the Good Friday prayer for the Jews. 
    This is not a question of whether a NO is valid. The schismatics who call themselves “orthodox” have valid liturgies, but it’s a mortal sin to attend them. 

     

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