Author Topic: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?  (Read 1080 times)

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Offline Marlelar

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Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 05:54:52 PM »
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  • just bc a "modernist" came up with them.. I heard it was JP II
    doesn't mean they are bad
    that kind of logic is not going to do you much good
    With all due respect I do think you are missing my point.  Re-read about the history of the Rosary and I think you will come to understand that we mere humans should never tamper with something given to us directly from heaven via the BVM.  The Rosary is not a prayer penned by man but a gift from heaven.  To add to it is to say that its original form is somehow deficient, that God "overlooked" some meditation worthy of our time.

    It would be akin to tampering with the words of the Our Father as received from Christ.
      
    Ooops... the protestants already did that.  :facepalm:

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 06:11:28 PM »
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  • Our Blessed Mother has said to pray the entire Rosary, not just one set of Mysteries.
    You're absolutely right.  However, most of the people I know, SSPX and resistance can only manage 5 decades per day; and Our Mother did say 1 Hail Mary devoutly prayed was more pleasing than a whole rosary said haphazardly.
    Also remember, church tradition before Vat II for the rosary was:
    Joyful mysteries         First Sunday of Advent to Feb 2nd  DAILY
    Sorrowful Mysteries     Ash Wednesday to Holy Saturday   DAILY
    Glorious Mysteries       Easter Sunday to Trinity Sunday     DAILY
    All other times alternate  This way we are meditating on the Liturgical Season.
    This method can be found in the Raccolta 1857-1940's, Christian Mothers's prayer book, Ideal Missal 1920's or 30's.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 03:28:39 PM »
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  • You're absolutely right.  However, most of the people I know, SSPX and resistance can only manage 5 decades per day; and Our Mother did say 1 Hail Mary devoutly prayed was more pleasing than a whole rosary said haphazardly.
    Also remember, church tradition before Vat II for the rosary was:
    Joyful mysteries         First Sunday of Advent to Feb 2nd  DAILY
    Sorrowful Mysteries     Ash Wednesday to Holy Saturday   DAILY
    Glorious Mysteries       Easter Sunday to Trinity Sunday     DAILY
    All other times alternate  This way we are meditating on the Liturgical Season.
    This method can be found in the Raccolta 1857-1940's, Christian Mothers's prayer book, Ideal Missal 1920's or 30's.
    Hmm. I’ve heard that before but never practised it. I know when I joined the Rosary Confraternity, the Dominican who enrolled me told me I was told to make sure you pray all 15 decades once a week, in imitation of the 150 psalms recited once a week by priests in the Breviary. (150 Aves = 150 psalms) but of course say at least 5 decades every day. In my own opinion, this is preferable. 15 decades a day is ideal though. 

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 05:28:44 PM »
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  • You're absolutely right.  However, most of the people I know, SSPX and resistance can only manage 5 decades per day; and Our Mother did say 1 Hail Mary devoutly prayed was more pleasing than a whole rosary said haphazardly.
    Also remember, church tradition before Vat II for the rosary was:
    Joyful mysteries         First Sunday of Advent to Feb 2nd  DAILY
    Sorrowful Mysteries     Ash Wednesday to Holy Saturday   DAILY
    Glorious Mysteries       Easter Sunday to Trinity Sunday     DAILY
    All other times alternate  This way we are meditating on the Liturgical Season.
    This method can be found in the Raccolta 1857-1940's, Christian Mothers's prayer book, Ideal Missal 1920's or 30's.
    Another method is to START with the Glorious Mysteries on Sunday (except during Advent when it is the Joyous Mysteries)
    Start with the Joyful on Monday and Thursday
    Start with the Sorrowful on Tuesdays and Fridays (and M-Sa during Lent)
    Start with the Glorious on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
    This is a recommended schedule that I read about in a little Rosary book I have.
    Some days I just can't manage all 15 but I can get in 10 at least.

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 08:15:24 PM »
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  • Another method is to START with the Glorious Mysteries on Sunday (except during Advent when it is the Joyous Mysteries)
    Start with the Joyful on Monday and Thursday
    Start with the Sorrowful on Tuesdays and Fridays (and M-Sa during Lent)
    Start with the Glorious on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
    This is a recommended schedule that I read about in a little Rosary book I have.
    Some days I just can't manage all 15 but I can get in 10 at least.
    That method is the part of the traditional method that I posted that is to be followed after Trinity Sunday to the first Sunday of Advent and also if there is time between Feb 2nd and Ash Wednesday.  It's what I meant when I posted "All other times alternate"
    After Vat II they changed the Time After Pentecost to Sundays in Ordinary Time and they wanted to change as much as they could so they had people drop praying the rosary according to the liturgical season and pray according to the alternating method 365 days of the year.

    The method you describe is followed by most people now, NO, traditional and resistance.
    See how we steadfastly follow the Council.

    If it's the only method written in the Raccolta doesn't that tell you something.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #20 on: January 13, 2018, 08:32:01 PM »
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  • That method is the part of the traditional method that I posted that is to be followed after Trinity Sunday to the first Sunday of Advent and also if there is time between Feb 2nd and Ash Wednesday.  It's what I meant when I posted "All other times alternate"
    After Vat II they changed the Time After Pentecost to Sundays in Ordinary Time and they wanted to change as much as they could so they had people drop praying the rosary according to the liturgical season and pray according to the alternating method 365 days of the year.

    The method you describe is followed by most people now, NO, traditional and resistance.
    See how we steadfastly follow the Council.

    If it's the only method written in the Raccolta doesn't that tell you something.
    I don’t see how that is the Vatican II way to say the Rosary, as the V2 way is to not say the Rosary. 

    As I pointed out, members of the Rosary Confraternity are meant to say the full 15 decade Rosary every week, Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious. 

    All in all, the Rosary is not liturgical and these methods are really only suggestions. You could pray all 15 decades a day, or say the Joyful Mysteries on Friday, or whatever. The main point is that we listen to Our Lady of Fatima and pray the Rosary everyday. 

    I try to say all 15 decades every day. My wife and I will say the Glorious mysteries tonight for our family Rosary. And it’s all good! Our Lady will happily hear our prayers whether we say the Joyful, Sorrowful Glorious or all the above. 

    Our Lady of the Rosary, pray for us!

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #21 on: January 13, 2018, 10:24:06 PM »
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  • How can you possibly say the rosary is not liturgical?  It follows the 3 seasons Advent, Lent and Pentecost.
    Is the Rosary Confraternity now run by traditionalists?  the SSPX? CMRI? Christ the King? Pius V?
    Have you gotten a hold of the Confraternity's old literature from say 70-100 years ago to see how it reads?
    Even if it reads the same, what you put forth is merely their minimum requirement.

    I merely gave the formula Rome put forth in centuries past, you know the one the saints followed, and yes I'll bet many of them prayed all 15 decades long before Fatima.

    This is a traditional site and I only put forth tradition.

    P.S.  It really helps with meditating on the season. 
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #22 on: January 13, 2018, 11:14:41 PM »
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  • That method is the part of the traditional method that I posted that is to be followed after Trinity Sunday to the first Sunday of Advent and also if there is time between Feb 2nd and Ash Wednesday.  It's what I meant when I posted "All other times alternate"
    After Vat II they changed the Time After Pentecost to Sundays in Ordinary Time and they wanted to change as much as they could so they had people drop praying the rosary according to the liturgical season and pray according to the alternating method 365 days of the year.

    The method you describe is followed by most people now, NO, traditional and resistance.
    See how we steadfastly follow the Council.

    If it's the only method written in the Raccolta doesn't that tell you something.
    I'm not arguing with you, I just mean to say that there is more than one way to recite the Rosary since the church does not dictate any particular method.  It is most important to pray it regardless of the method a person prefers.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #23 on: January 13, 2018, 11:33:08 PM »
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  • I guess I assume that if it's in the Raccolta with indulgences attached that it was dictated by the church as the Raccolta is THE official pronouncement from Rome on how to pray to obtain indulgences.

    Sounds to me like it was dictated,
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #24 on: January 14, 2018, 05:46:09 AM »
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  • How can you possibly say the rosary is not liturgical?  It follows the 3 seasons Advent, Lent and Pentecost.
    Is the Rosary Confraternity now run by traditionalists?  the SSPX? CMRI? Christ the King? Pius V?
    Have you gotten a hold of the Confraternity's old literature from say 70-100 years ago to see how it reads?
    Even if it reads the same, what you put forth is merely their minimum requirement.

    I merely gave the formula Rome put forth in centuries past, you know the one the saints followed, and yes I'll bet many of them prayed all 15 decades long before Fatima.

    This is a traditional site and I only put forth tradition.

    P.S.  It really helps with meditating on the season.
    I registered with the Confraternity with Dominicans aligned with the SSPX, so yes traditional. 
    I’m not trying to argue, but there’s different ways to say the Rosary. There’s the regular method with the Creed, the Pater, three Aves, etc. Then there’s the Dominican form which starts with the Adiutorum and the Gloria Patri. Both are valid. 
    Our Lady of Pompeii gave the 54 day Rosary novena back long before V2 which is 3 novenas of alternating Mysterties in petition and 3 in thanksgiving. And that’s valid. 
    Or you could recite it in line with the liturgical year. That’s valid. 
    These are suggestions. You can pray the Angelus at 1pm or midnight or whenever even though it’s traditionally prayed at noon. And that’s valid. 
    What I mean by that it isn’t liturgical is that these are suggestions.  And they all are fine. For liturgy, priests must wear the right vestments, have their chalice, paten etc, celebrate the proper feast. 
    Say the Assumption is on a Tuesday. Normally people would be saying Sorrowful on Tuesday. Or you could say Glorious. Both are fine. 

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #25 on: January 14, 2018, 05:53:10 AM »
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  • I’ve also seen a sedevacantist Rosary Confraternity say the same thing. All 15 decades a week. And yes that’s the minimum, to join the Rosary Society you should say at least 5 a day!


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #26 on: January 14, 2018, 12:54:30 PM »
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  •  You can pray the Angelus at 1pm or midnight or whenever even though it’s traditionally prayed at noon. And that’s valid.
    I hit the up symbol instead of quote by mistake.
    I totally agree you can pray anything, any time.
    But the Angelus is TRADITIONALLY prayed 3 times a day:  that is why they ring the church bells at
    6 AM, Noon, and 6PM for the Angelus.
    My point throughout is merely to show that in centuries past the universal church had the people doing things all the same way.... same Mass, same sacraments, same rosary (depending on which one you were praying) same stations etc.
    Ever since Luther, innovations have crept in and Vat II accelerated them.
    You can do what ever you want.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #27 on: January 16, 2018, 12:41:21 PM »
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  • With all due respect I do think you are missing my point.  Re-read about the history of the Rosary and I think you will come to understand that we mere humans should never tamper with something given to us directly from heaven via the BVM.  The Rosary is not a prayer penned by man but a gift from heaven.  To add to it is to say that its original form is somehow deficient, that God "overlooked" some meditation worthy of our time.

    It would be akin to tampering with the words of the Our Father as received from Christ.
      
    Ooops... the protestants already did that.  :facepalm:
    again you seem to have to notion that no "modernist" person or pope can do anything right
    and no Protestant can do anything right
    that is a dangerous way of thinking. Protestants (and all humans ) are created in God's image... and we are told that by a Bible that was written long b4 the Catholic Church came on the scene (in a tangible way) 

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #28 on: January 16, 2018, 03:17:10 PM »
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  • I know, I was gobsmacked when I heard JP2 was inventing an addition to the Most Holy Rosary.
    Me too. My first thought was (unfortunately) 'it's hard enough to get people to pray the original 3 daily, and now you're tossing in an extra one out of nowhere?'  

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Pray Sorrowful Mysteries more often?
    « Reply #29 on: January 16, 2018, 03:36:24 PM »
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  • again you seem to have to notion that no "modernist" person or pope can do anything right
    and no Protestant can do anything right
    that is a dangerous way of thinking. Protestants (and all humans ) are created in God's image... and we are told that by a Bible that was written long b4 the Catholic Church came on the scene (in a tangible way)
    ummm...I don't know where to begin...?
    for starters, graceseeker, I think you may not be aware that there are certain words used in Tradition that can have a very different meaning than the same word used secularly. (Like: originally the word 'gay' meant 'happy and festive', and now means something entirely different.)  'Modernist' doesn't simply imply that a pope reigns in recent times, it also means that he has a non-traditional mind-set.


    " modernism refers to theological opinions expressed during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but with influence reaching into the 21st century, which are characterized by a break with the past. Modernist Catholics form an amorphous group. The term appears in the 1907 encyclical Pascendi dominici gregis, in which Pope Pius Xcondemns modernism as embracing of every heresy.[1][2] Modernists, and what are now termed "neo-modernists", generally do not openly use this label in describing themselves, although traditionalist Catholics continue to use the term."



    ( Pius X is a saint.)

    So, no, trads don't think there is much good a modernist pope can do since he isn't in agreement with the traditional teachings of the church.  (This is probably over-simplified.)

    As for your remarks on Protestants and the Bible, well, I'll let the others take it from here.

     

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