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Author Topic: Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism  (Read 3159 times)

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Offline andysloan

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Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
« on: April 10, 2014, 01:19:45 PM »
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  • http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/romes-exorcist-finding-bl.-john-paul-ii-effective-against-satan/

    www.catholicnewsagency.com

    Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan
    By David Kerr

    Fr. Gabriele Amorth poses next to a statue of the Virgin Mary in his office.

    Rome, Italy, May 17, 2011 / 03:27 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- The chief exorcist of Rome is seeing a rising number of young people coming under the influence of evil, but he has found in recent years that Blessed John Paul II is a powerful intercessor in the battle for souls.

    A small, unassuming office in south-west Rome seems a rather ordinary setting in which to play out a grand battle between good and evil. It is here, though, that Father Gabriele Amorth has carried out most of his 70,000 exorcisms over the past 26 years.

    “The world must know that Satan exists,” he told CNA recently. “The devil and demons are many and they have two powers, the ordinary and the extraordinary.”

    The 86-year-old Italian priest of the Society of St. Paul and official exorcist for the Diocese of Rome explained the difference.

    “The so-called ordinary power is that of tempting man to distance himself from God and take him to Hell. This action is exercised against all men and women of all places and religions.”

    As for the extraordinary powers used by Satan, Fr. Amorth explained it as how the Devil acts when he focuses his attention more specifically on a person. He categorized the expression of that attention into four types: diabolical possession; diabolical vexation like in the case of Padre Pio, who was beaten by the Devil; obsessions which are able to lead a person to desperation and infestation, and when the Devil occupies a space, an animal or even an object.”

    Fr. Amorth says such extraordinary occurrences are rare but on the rise. He's particularly worried by the number of young people being affected by Satan through sects, séances and drugs. He never despairs though.

    “With Jesus Christ and Mary, God has promised us that he will never allow temptations greater than our strengths.”

    Hence he gives a very matter-of-fact guide that everybody can use in the fight against Satan.

    “The temptations of the Devil are defeated first of all by avoiding occasions (of temptation), because the Devil always seeks out our weakest points. And, then, with prayer. We Christians have an advantage because we have the Word of Jesus, we have the sacraments, prayer to God.”

    Not surprisingly, ‘Jesus Christ’ is the name Fr. Amorth most often calls upon to expel demons. But he also turns to saintly men and women for their heavenly assistance. Interestingly, he said that in recent years one man – Blessed Pope John Paul II – has proved to be a particularly powerful intercessor.

    “I have asked the demon more than once, ‘Why are you so scared of John Paul II and I have had two different responses, both interesting. One, ‘because he disrupted my plans.’ And, I think that he is referring to the fall of communism in Russia and Eastern Europe. The collapse of communism.”

    “Another response that he gave me, ‘because he pulled so many young people from my hands.’ There are so many young people who, thanks to John Paul II, were converted. Perhaps some were already Christian but not practicing, but then with John Paul II they came back to the practice. ‘He pulled so many young people out of my hands.’”

    And the most powerful intercessor of all?

    “Of course, the Madonna is even more effective. Ah, when you invoke Mary!”

    “And, once I also asked Satan, ‘but why are you more scared when I invoke Our Lady than when I invoke Jesus Christ?’ He answered me, ‘Because I am more humiliated to be defeated by a human creature than being defeated by him.”

    The intercession of the living is also important, though, says Fr. Amorth. He reminds people that exorcism is a prayer and, as such, Christians can pray to liberate a soul or place from the Devil. However, three things are needed.

    “The Lord gave them (the Apostles) an answer that also for us exorcists is very important. He said that overcoming this type of demon, you need much faith, much prayer and much fasting. Faith, prayer and fasting.”

    “Especially faith, you need so much faith. Many times also in the healings, Jesus does not say in the Gospel it is me who has healed you. He says, you are healed thanks to your faith. He wants faith in the people, a strong and absolute faith. Without faith you can do nothing.”

    Copyright © CNA
    (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 01:42:48 PM »
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  • Father Amorth has gone the way of Bishop Milingo.  Too many exorcisms can wreak havoc on one's sanity.

    "By the devil he casts out devils?"  :laugh1:

    John Paul II converting youth?  Converting them to what?  I've never seen or met a single young person who converted to the Church because of John Paul II ... although the cases of youth putting John Paul II's "Theology of the Body" into practice on the beaches during World Youth Days are well docuмented.


    Offline andysloan

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 02:04:28 PM »
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  • Ladislaus said:


    "Father Amorth has gone the way of Bishop Milingo. Too many exorcisms can wreak havoc on one's sanity.
    "


    Do you have sure evidence of this? Or does Fr Amorth's testimony not fit with your judgement on Pope John Paul 2?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 02:07:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    Ladislaus said:


    "Father Amorth has gone the way of Bishop Milingo. Too many exorcisms can wreak havoc on one's sanity.
    "


    Do you have sure evidence of this? Or does Fr Amorth's testimony not fit with your judgement on Pope John Paul 2?


    That was obviously said tongue-in-cheek.

    But, since you ask, no, his testimony does not fit in with the well known facts regarding the fruits of John Paul II's papacy.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 02:14:04 PM »
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  • I was on a mailing list consisting mostly of Indult Mass attendees who practically worshipped John Paul II.  Upon his death, the outpourings of "santo subito" talk got to me, and I couldn't help but chime in about how if he managed to save his soul, nevertheless his papacy is objectively one of the worst in all of Church history.  I cited statistics and examples, etc.  But the response was that these were all the fault of the American bishops.  Well, I got so fed up with this that I went through the Catholic Almanac bishop by bishop and made a spreadsheet.  At the time of his death, 93% of all the active US bishops had been appointed by John Paul II (as a result of his agonizingly protracted reign).  This was met by absolute silence on the thread.  Buck stops with the Pope.  That's why the entire Church prays for the pope or why holy men like St. Pius X wept at the prospect of becoming pope; at the end of the day he's responsible for everything that happens in the Church.


    Offline andysloan

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 02:24:33 PM »
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  • To Ladislaus.

    1) That is no proof against the veracity of Fr Amorth's witness

    2)  The pope is not responsible for everything that happens in the church

       

    2 Peter 2:1


    "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

    Offline shin

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 03:04:55 PM »
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  • It is quite easy for demons to deceive even an exorcist, by falsely claiming this or that is effective against them.

    Moreover, the praise of Medjugorje shows a failure of discernment. He is reported as saying:

    “Now look here; it is very sour, this balance. After more than thirty years! More than thirty years! Now if it is the pagans who don’t listen to Our Lady’s words, then that I can understand. But be you a Christian, it is not forgivable. Be you a Christian!”

    But anyone who can use a search engine and look up the 'truth about Medjugorje' can see the many problems with it that prevent it from being at all acceptable. The claim that all religions are are 'dear' to God is diabolical.
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline andysloan

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 05:00:04 PM »
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  • Shin said:


    "It is quite easy for demons to deceive even an exorcist, by falsely claiming this or that is effective against them."


    Have you some examples of this easy deception specifically regarding "who is effective against them"?



    Also, Fr Amorth has performed hundreds of exorcisms, so his experience must count for something.


    Or are we dealing with "Pope John Paul 2 is a heretic/antipope/antichrist (delete to opinion) and I am not changing my view, because I have hung my hat on it"?


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 06:59:52 PM »
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  • Andysloan,

    The only thing that I like about you is your avatar. And that is it.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 07:13:59 PM »
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  • Novus Ordo apologists are a shifty bunch.

    Andy, it's been interesting to watch your progression as a poster.  From a heavy focus on end-time private revelation to private-revelation and OT-heavy scripture quoting to "combat" criticisms against the N.O. to Novus Ordo apologizing and backing up everyone's favorite Pocket, have you been priming us for this all along?  Slowly introducing yourself, first as an apparent enemy of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr and now, having understood you as such, are we to take your apologies for the same as having some sort of veracity?

    I anticipate at least two quotations in bold as a response.      





    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 07:16:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    I anticipate at least two quotations in bold as a response.


    And a smidgen of self-righteousness.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline andysloan

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 04:17:13 AM »
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  • Excerpt from 1970's Exorcism


    TRADITIONALISTS


    Exorcist: In the name...!

    Beelzebub: There are numbers of “traditionalists”, as many lay people as priests, who are full of self-righteousness, who are steeped in a kind of new phariseeism. They say, and sometimes they preach: “We are the good ones, we are the just, the rest are not worth much any more. We will go to Heaven.” That is pretty close to the sects: they say the same thing. Those up there (he points upward) do not like this behavior at all.. They do not love men very much who are righteous in their own eyes.

    If, in this book, it has been necessary to speak about the Mass and about the Church, and amongst other things, the Mass of Saint Pius V, that does not mean to say that certain “traditionalists” should exalt themselves above the modernists, as if they were the only ones who know how to make a sound judgment, in a suitable way, and with all the necessary competence. That is not what this book is all about. It is simply intended to expose all the abuses in the Church, such as they exist today.

    But, to complete the picture, we must still say this: The priests who say: “It is better for you to stay at home rather than go to such Masses”, are making a mistake. If the Mass is degraded to that point where the priest himself no longer believes in the words of the Consecration, and no longer pronounces the words as they should be pronounced, if he no longer has the intention of consecrating, then the host is not consecrated, it is true... but, for all that, people can still pray in the church.

    I have to say this also: they are defrauded of Christ and of the fullness of the graces, it is true, but certain graces are still attached to it. Especially when good Christians, of deep faith, go to Mass and Communion full of devotion, with the intention of receiving Christ, then Heaven is fair enough not to say simply: “Because the priest is not doing things properly, there will be no graces here!” Those people nevertheless do receive certain graces.

    E: Do these people fulfill their duty to the Lord?

    B: If the people have the opportunity of going to a Mass of Saint Pius V, then Heaven prefers that, very much so. But if there is no other possibility, they may go to another Mass. After the Mass of Saint Pius V in Latin, the Tridentine Mass in the vernacular comes in second place, provided that it comprises the totality of the words of the Tridentine Mass as far as this is possible. Only after these, in third place, comes the New Mass. But those people, if they do not know these things and are of good faith, nevertheless fulfill their duty to the Lord, in so far as that is their intention.

    On the other hand, if they know very well that a kilometer further away, they would find a Mass of Saint Pius V, and if they say to themselves: “Bah! That, is too far away for me, I am not going to run over there!”; and if they know very well that that would be better, then we have a different situation. Then, they have lost out enormously through negligence. They should have gone that kilometer. Do you know (in a tearful voice) how far we would go, if we were still able to share in such great graces? Ah! We would travel to the ends of the earth, if we still had a chance! We do not wish to imply by this, that the other Masses are as good. We have already said enough about which Mass Those up there prefer (he points upward).

    We have to reveal the error which many priests are making. It is a fundamental error to instill into men that they must not go to any New Mass, that it comes from the devil, etc... That also is throwing the baby away with the bath-water, it is going to the opposite extreme. Never does such a condemnation have any place under the mantle of love of neighbor. In these circuмstances there are modernists who have love of neighbor, who are sometimes better than such “traditionalists” who exalt themselves above others. We are obliged to say that as part of this... and everything we have just said about the Sacraments and other subjects...

    And it should also be said that there are many “traditionalists” who are Pharisees. Otherwise, the modernists will think that all the “traditionalists” should be lumped together, that (all) the “traditionalists” are fanatics, rebellious fanatics, and will fight them with every means... Now we do not wish to speak any more (he grumbles).

    E: In the name of the Blessed Virgin Mary...!

    B: This is the way it is: Those up there (he points upward) love all their children, even if they have fallen into error. If, under the cloak of obedience, because they no longer know what they ought to do, they follow the opinions of. the bishops and the priests, then it is hardly their fault. If they act in all good faith, it will not be held to their account so strictly, although these circuмstances are so frightful, frightful, frightful.




    WITNESSES

     

    The priests whose names are listed below, testify that, based on their personal knowledge of this case of possession, they are firmly convinced of the authenticity of the revelations made by the demons, by order of the Blessed Virgin:

    Abbot Albert d'Arx, Nieder-Buchsiten,

    Abbot Arnold Egli, Ramiswil,

    Abbot Ernest Fischer, missionary, Gossau,

    Reverend Father Pius Gervasi, o.s.b., Disentis,

    Abbot Karl Holdener, retired, Ried.

    Reverend Father Gregoire Meyer, Trimbach,

    Reverend Father Robert Rinderer, e.p.p.s., Auw,

    Abbot Louis Veillard, retired, Cerneux-Pequignot.

     

    NOTE (French edition).


    The eight priests or religious named above are all of Swiss nationality, except Father Fischer, who is a German: they all took part in the exorcisms, except Father Gregoire Meyer, who was at one time Spiritual Director for the possessed woman, and therefore knows her well.

    Two other priests, of French nationality, have also taken part in the exorcisms.

     

     
    DECLARATION


     

    Some of the shepherds of the Church who ought to be protectors of the Faith and of the Truth are that no longer. That is why the Blessed Virgin Mary forces Satan -the father of lies - to tell the truth and to teach the pure doctrine of the Church, even while he fulminates against these Warnings. It is a question of waking the shepherds up and bringing about the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Mother of the Holy Church.

    It must be understood that all these communications should be compared with the authentic doctrine of the Church and with its present situation. But it is certain, here and now, that the contents of this book show the way towards a profound renewal of the Church.

     

    Reverend Father Arnold Renz.



    N.B. 1 - The number of exorcists present during the exorcisms varies from two to six. The exorcisms are still going on.

    N.B. 2 - During the exorcisms - particularly lively as you will see -there are always people praying in a chapel before the Most Blessed Sacrament.

    N.B. 3 - “We have invited the Swiss Bishops to be present during the Exorcisms. No favorable response has been received.” (Bonaventure Meyer)

    N.B. 4 - A copy of a film of the exorcisms carried out on January 23, 1978, has been sent to the Swiss Bishops.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 04:40:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Novus Ordo apologists are a shifty bunch.

    Andy, it's been interesting to watch your progression as a poster.  From a heavy focus on end-time private revelation to private-revelation and OT-heavy scripture quoting to "combat" criticisms against the N.O. to Novus Ordo apologizing and backing up everyone's favorite Pocket, have you been priming us for this all along?  Slowly introducing yourself, first as an apparent enemy of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr and now, having understood you as such, are we to take your apologies for the same as having some sort of veracity?

    I anticipate at least two quotations in bold as a response.      







    Did I miss an apology?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Luker

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 06:06:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Novus Ordo apologists are a shifty bunch.


    I anticipate at least two quotations in bold as a response.      







    Lulz  :laugh2:

    I raise your two bold scripture quotations by one private revelation.  That will learn you but good.  :laugh2:



    Luke
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Pope John Paul 2 effective in exorcism
    « Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 06:41:37 PM »
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  • Now you're citing Beelzebub as an authority?  He's never been known to lie, eh?

    Didn't Francis say the same thing as Beelzebub about Traditional Catholics?