Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia  (Read 1678 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline magdalena

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2553
  • Reputation: +2032/-42
  • Gender: Female
Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
« on: December 22, 2014, 10:23:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Below is a condensed version of the Pope’s Monday remarks, containing the 15 ailments he identified. All English translations are from the Vatican’s news office.

    1) “The sickness of considering oneself ‘immortal’, ‘immune’ or ‘indispensable’, neglecting the necessary and habitual controls. A Curia that is not self-critical, that does not stay up-to-date, that does not seek to better itself, is an ailing body. … It is the sickness of the rich fool who thinks he will live for all eternity, and of those who transform themselves into masters and believe themselves superior to others, rather than at their service”.
    2) “‘Martha-ism’, or excessive industriousness; the sickness of those who immerse themselves in work, inevitably neglecting ‘the better part’ of sitting at Jesus’ feet. Therefore, Jesus required his disciples to rest a little, as neglecting the necessary rest leads to stress and agitation. Rest, once one who has brought his or her mission to a close, is a necessary duty and must be taken seriously: in spending a little time with relatives and respecting the holidays as a time for spiritual and physical replenishment, it is necessary to learn the teaching of Ecclesiastes, that ‘there is a time for everything’.”
    3) “The sickness of mental and spiritual hardening: that of those who, along the way, lose their inner serenity, vivacity and boldness and conceal themselves behind paper, becoming working machines rather than men of God. … It is dangerous to lose the human sensibility necessary to be able to weep with those who weep and to rejoice with those who rejoice! It is the sickness of those who lose those sentiments that were present in Jesus Christ”.
    4) “The ailment of excessive planning and functionalism: this is when the apostle plans everything in detail and believes that, by perfect planning things effectively progress, thus becoming a sort of accountant. … One falls prey to this sickness because it is easier and more convenient to settle into static and unchanging positions. Indeed, the Church shows herself to be faithful to the Holy Spirit to the extent that she does not seek to regulate or domesticate it. The Spirit is freshness, imagination and innovation”
    5) “Sickness of poor coordination develops when the communion between members is lost, and the body loses its harmonious functionality and its temperance, becoming an orchestra of cacophony because the members do not collaborate and do not work with a spirit of communion or as a team.”
    6) “Spiritual Alzheimer’s disease, or rather forgetfulness of the history of Salvation, of the personal history with the Lord, of the ‘first love’: this is a progressive decline of spiritual faculties, that over a period of time causes serious handicaps, making one incapable of carrying out certain activities autonomously, living in a state of absolute dependence on one’s own often imaginary views. We see this is those who have lost their recollection of their encounter with the Lord … in those who build walls around themselves and who increasingly transform into slaves to the idols they have sculpted with their own hands”.
    7) “The ailment of rivalry and vainglory: when appearances, the colour of one’s robes, insignia and honours become the most important aim in life. … It is the disorder that leads us to become false men and women, living a false ‘mysticism’ and a false ‘quietism’.”
    8) “Existential schizophrenia: the sickness of those who live a double life, fruit of the hypocrisy typical of the mediocre and the progressive spiritual emptiness that cannot be filled by degrees or academic honours. This ailment particularly afflicts those who, abandoning pastoral service, limit themselves to bureaucratic matters, thus losing contact with reality and with real people. They create a parallel world of their own, where they set aside everything they teach with severity to others and live a hidden, often dissolute life.”
    9) “Chatter, grumbling and gossip: this is a serious illness that begins simply, often just in the form of having a chat, and takes people over, turning them into sowers of discord, like Satan, and in many cases cold-blooded murderers of the reputations of their colleagues and brethren. It is the sickness of the cowardly who, not having the courage to speak directly to the people involved, instead speak behind their backs”.
    10) “The sickness of deifying leaders is typical of those who court their superiors, with the hope of receiving their benevolence. They are victims of careerism and opportunism, honouring people rather than God. They are people who experience service thinking only of what they might obtain and not of what they should give. They are mean, unhappy and inspired only by their fatal selfishness.”
    11) “The disease of indifference towards others arises when each person thinks only of himself, and loses the sincerity and warmth of personal relationships. When the most expert does not put his knowledge to the service of less expert colleagues; when out of jealousy … one experiences joy in seeing another person instead of lifting him up or encouraging him.”
    12) “The illness of the funereal face: or rather, that of the gruff and the grim, those who believe that in order to be serious it is necessary to paint their faces with melancholy and severity, and to treat others – especially those they consider inferior – with rigidity, hardness and arrogance. In reality, theatrical severity and sterile pessimism are often symptoms of fear and insecurity.”
    13) “The disease of accuмulation: when the apostle seeks to fill an existential emptiness of the heart by accuмulating material goods, not out of necessity but simply to feel secure. … Accuмulation only burdens and inexorably slows down our progress.”
    14) “The ailment of closed circles: when belonging to a group becomes stronger than belonging to the Body and, in some situations, to Christ Himself. This sickness too may start from good intentions but, as time passes, enslaves members and becomes a ‘cancer’ that threatens the harmony of the Body and causes a great deal of harm – scandals – especially to our littlest brothers.”
    15) The “disease of worldly profit and exhibitionism: when the apostle transforms his service into power, and his power into goods to obtain worldly profits or more power. This is the disease of those who seek insatiably to multiply their power and are therefore capable of slandering, defaming and discrediting others, even in newspapers and magazines, naturally in order to brag and to show they are more capable than others.”

    Pope Francis continued, after listing the ailments, to urge the Curia to use Christmas time to work on healing the body of the church’s governance:

    “We are therefore required, at this Christmas time and in all the time of our service and our existence – to live ‘speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love’.”

    “I once read that priests are like aeroplanes: they only make the news when they crash, but there are many that fly. Many criticise them and few pray for them. It is a very nice phrase, but also very true, as it expresses the importance and the delicacy of our priestly service, and how much harm just one priest who falls may cause to the whole body of the Church.”

    Washington Post
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4118
    • Reputation: +1257/-258
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #1 on: December 23, 2014, 12:22:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why was this "rebuking" or "fraternal correction" made public?

    Also, it's strange his "rebuking" doesn't mention being more faithful to the teachings of the Church. Isn't that the biggest ailment?
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline ggreg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3001
    • Reputation: +184/-179
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #2 on: December 23, 2014, 02:17:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Perhaps it is a mistranslation and he meant something else entirely.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 02:50:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Why was this "rebuking" or "fraternal correction" made public?

    Also, it's strange his "rebuking" doesn't mention being more faithful to the teachings of the Church. Isn't that the biggest ailment?

    If you are living a lifestyle that is foreign to the Gospel then you are not being faithful to the teachings of the Church.  

    Offline glaston

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 384
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 05:41:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • He's well out of it himself

    - what with emails/telephone monitored by Govts and other multiple Masonic fraud Agencies/operatives


    Offline magdalena

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2553
    • Reputation: +2032/-42
    • Gender: Female
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #5 on: December 23, 2014, 06:17:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #6 on: December 23, 2014, 09:19:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't see institutionalized sodomy on this list. I recall that particular curial disease having been considered so grave that an entire dossier was compiled on it... which was promtly ignored and never mentioned again after the commencement of this pontificate.

    As for #6 - "Spiritual Alzheimer’s disease," I take it he's not referring to the entirely self-inflicted "Spiritual Alzheimer's disease" that has been ongoing since the Council, since he's been known to refer to those who actually aren't "forgetful of the history of Salvation" as "Promethean neo-Pelagians" who are "intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past."

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7782
    • Reputation: +4577/-579
    • Gender: Female
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #7 on: December 23, 2014, 10:09:52 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It may be another political maneuver to please the Jєωs. The more he publicly critizes and turns against the Vatican Curia, the more the world will praise and love him. Remember the agenda is to make him "the popular Pope of the People", a leftist communist ideal. The people hates the Vatican so any public admonishion to it will make him seem on the people's side and gain more worldly popularity!
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Elizabeth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4845
    • Reputation: +2194/-15
    • Gender: Female
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #8 on: December 23, 2014, 10:11:29 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: BTNYC
    I don't see institutionalized sodomy on this list. I recall that particular curial disease having been considered so grave that an entire dossier was compiled on it... which was promtly ignored and never mentioned again after the commencement of this pontificate.

    As for #6 - "Spiritual Alzheimer’s disease," I take it he's not referring to the entirely self-inflicted "Spiritual Alzheimer's disease" that has been ongoing since the Council, since he's been known to refer to those who actually aren't "forgetful of the history of Salvation" as "Promethean neo-Pelagians" who are "intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past."


     :cheers:

    Offline Capt McQuigg

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4671
    • Reputation: +2624/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #9 on: December 23, 2014, 02:21:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: ggreg
    Perhaps it is a mistranslation and he meant something else entirely.


    Wasn't there a bunny that lived in a top hat that said things to the effect of "my words mean exactly what I want them to mean"?

    I think the bunny is from the "Alice in Wonderland" tale.

    "Francis in Wonderland"

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 01:02:24 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: BTNYC
    I don't see institutionalized sodomy on this list. I recall that particular curial disease having been considered so grave that an entire dossier was compiled on it... which was promtly ignored and never mentioned again after the commencement of this pontificate.

    As for #6 - "Spiritual Alzheimer’s disease," I take it he's not referring to the entirely self-inflicted "Spiritual Alzheimer's disease" that has been ongoing since the Council, since he's been known to refer to those who actually aren't "forgetful of the history of Salvation" as "Promethean neo-Pelagians" who are "intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past."


    8) “Existential schizophrenia: the sickness of those who live a double life, fruit of the hypocrisy typical of the mediocre and the progressive spiritual emptiness that cannot be filled by degrees or academic honours. This ailment particularly afflicts those who, abandoning pastoral service, limit themselves to bureaucratic matters, thus losing contact with reality and with real people. They create a parallel world of their own, where they set aside everything they teach with severity to others and live a hidden, often dissolute life.”


    This appears to cover sodomy and a whoe host of other sins as well.


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 01:05:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • He said the Curia - the administrative pinnacle of the Roman Catholic Church - was suffering from 15 "ailments", which he wanted cured in the New Year.

    Pope Francis - the first Latin American pontiff - also criticised "those who look obsessively at their own image".

    He has demanded reform of the Curia.

    There was silence at the end of the Pope's speech.

    Bigger say
     
    Addressing the Curia on Monday, Pope Francis said some power-hungry clerics were guilty of "cold-bloodedly killing the reputation of their own colleagues and brothers".

    He compared the performance of the church's civil servants to that of an orchestra playing "out of tune" because they fail to collaborate and have no team spirit.

     
    Analysis: BBC's David Willey in Rome
     
    Clearly Pope Francis is meeting opposition among the nearly 3,000 strong staff of the Italian-dominated Curia.

    He had never worked in Rome before his election as pope last year, and - as a Vatican outsider from the other end of the world - is clearly frustrated by the slow-moving and creaking Vatican bureaucracy.

    He is trying to reform it with the help of a new group of cardinal advisers he has called in from every continent to draw up a new Vatican constitution.

     
    Before his election in March 2013, the pontiff encountered internal opposition to some of the reforms he wants to carry out.

    He has set up a series of specialist bodies to fight corruption and poor management, appointing a team of advisers.

    The Pope also launched a clean-up of the Vatican Bank, officially known as the Institute for the Works of Religion (IOR). The IOR has long had a poor reputation, after a succession of scandals.

     
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30577368

    Offline rcentros

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 103
    • Reputation: +101/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 02:34:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Why was this "rebuking" or "fraternal correction" made public?


    That's what I was wondering. See #9 in his own list.

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #13 on: December 24, 2014, 08:30:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: BTNYC
    I don't see institutionalized sodomy on this list. I recall that particular curial disease having been considered so grave that an entire dossier was compiled on it... which was promtly ignored and never mentioned again after the commencement of this pontificate.

    As for #6 - "Spiritual Alzheimer’s disease," I take it he's not referring to the entirely self-inflicted "Spiritual Alzheimer's disease" that has been ongoing since the Council, since he's been known to refer to those who actually aren't "forgetful of the history of Salvation" as "Promethean neo-Pelagians" who are "intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past."


    8) “Existential schizophrenia: the sickness of those who live a double life, fruit of the hypocrisy typical of the mediocre and the progressive spiritual emptiness that cannot be filled by degrees or academic honours. This ailment particularly afflicts those who, abandoning pastoral service, limit themselves to bureaucratic matters, thus losing contact with reality and with real people. They create a parallel world of their own, where they set aside everything they teach with severity to others and live a hidden, often dissolute life.”


    This appears to cover sodomy and a whoe host of other sins as well.


    "Appears to cover?"

    It talks about being "limited to beaurucratic matters," not "partaking of secret cabals in which men bugger one another."

    And the end of the Benedictine pontificate, there was open talk of a dossier compiled specifically to deal with a network of curial sodomites. Is it too much for we the Faithful to expect that so outrageous and grave an evil as an organized coven of cardinals engaging in the Sin Against Nature that Cries to Heaven for Vengeance might be listed among these other comparatively trivial "evils" with something a little bit more unambiguous thatn absolutely impenetrable opacity?
     

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Pope Francis 15 criticisms of the curia
    « Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 08:38:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    He said the Curia - the administrative pinnacle of the Roman Catholic Church - was suffering from 15 "ailments", which he wanted cured in the New Year.

    Pope Francis - the first Latin American pontiff - also criticised "those who look obsessively at their own image".

    He has demanded reform of the Curia.

    There was silence at the end of the Pope's speech.

    Bigger say
     
    Addressing the Curia on Monday, Pope Francis said some power-hungry clerics were guilty of "cold-bloodedly killing the reputation of their own colleagues and brothers".

    He compared the performance of the church's civil servants to that of an orchestra playing "out of tune" because they fail to collaborate and have no team spirit.

     
    Analysis: BBC's David Willey in Rome
     
    Clearly Pope Francis is meeting opposition among the nearly 3,000 strong staff of the Italian-dominated Curia.

    He had never worked in Rome before his election as pope last year, and - as a Vatican outsider from the other end of the world - is clearly frustrated by the slow-moving and creaking Vatican bureaucracy.

    He is trying to reform it with the help of a new group of cardinal advisers he has called in from every continent to draw up a new Vatican constitution.

     
    Before his election in March 2013, the pontiff encountered internal opposition to some of the reforms he wants to carry out.

    He has set up a series of specialist bodies to fight corruption and poor management, appointing a team of advisers.

    The Pope also launched a clean-up of the Vatican Bank, officially known as the Institute for the Works of Religion (IOR). The IOR has long had a poor reputation, after a succession of scandals.

     
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30577368





    Quote from: Pope Francis in June 2013


    “The 'gαy lobby' is mentioned, and it is true, it is there. We need to see what we can do.”


    Quote from: Pope Francis in July 2013


    "There’s a lot of talk about the 'gαy lobby,' but I’ve never seen it on the Vatican ID card."