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Author Topic: Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)  (Read 625 times)

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Offline Magdalene

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Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
« on: March 16, 2007, 12:44:25 AM »
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  • I read an article in Catholic Family News about the mother of John Bosco. (In November, the Vatican decreed her "venerable" because of her reputation for holiness.) Anyway, in the article it says that when she died, she appeared to her son, John Bosco, and told him to say some Masses for her because she was still in Purgatory. Now, his mother lived with John Bosco at the Oratory (she dedicated her last years to helping out with the boys at the Oratory). So, we know that she received Last Rites from her son. And we know that Last Rites include the Apostolic Blessing, which is a Plenary Indulgence. So, if she received a Plenary Indulgence before she died (and since she was holy we know that she received it with the right dispositions), then how come she ended up in Purgatory when the Plenary Indulgence should have remitted all her temportal punishments?

    A priest in his homily once said that a particular saint (I forgot who) did a quick dip in Purgatory before going to Heaven (the saint appeared to another saint and revealed this). I have heard other stories of holy people who seemed to have ended up in Purgatory for a brief minute even though we know they most like received an Apostolic Blessing before they died.

    If a holy woman and a saint received the Apostolic Blessing (and received it with the right dispostions since they spent their seeking the will of God), then how is it that they still ended up in Purgatory?

    If the Apostolic Blessing didn't work for a holy person or a saint, then how can a Plenary Indulgence ever be effective for any of us "normal" devout Catholics? It would be impossible.



    Offline John Steven

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    Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
    « Reply #1 on: March 17, 2007, 02:55:44 PM »
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  • A plenary indulgence relies upon the disposition of the one receiving it. Any attachment to sin will make it only a partial indulgence. Going on pure speculation about the particular cases you mention, we would have to conclude that if a person had to spend a certain amount of time in Purgatory that there must have been at least some small attachment to sin that prevented the person from receiving the full plenary indulgence. It is likely that most of us are not perfectly disposed to receive a plenary indulgence even when undertaking those actions that would merit them and therefore only receive a partial indulgence. We will never know for sure until we are in Eternity.


    Offline Carolus Magnus

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    Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
    « Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 03:53:10 PM »
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  • This does not show that they don't work what it demonstrates is how difficult it is to attain them.

    Only God knows whether someone is of the necessary disposition needed to receive a plenary indulgence, As one becomes holier one does not cease to sin, if this was the case the Saints would not have made use of the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

    What we should take from this is how far we have fallen and how  a high a standard we are called to if we would only surrender ourselves completely to God.
    adstiterunt reges terrae et principes convenerunt in unum adversus Dominum et adversus Christum eius diapsalma disrumpamus vincula eorum et proiciamus a nobis iugum ipsorum

    Offline Magdalene

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    Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
    « Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 12:23:27 AM »
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  • But if a saint or holy person doesn't have the proper disposition to receive a plenary indulgence, then we have no chance at all, because we are even less disposed than a holy person would be - so what is the use of even seeking one.

    Offline Carolus Magnus

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    Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
    « Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 07:31:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: Magdalene
    But if a saint or holy person doesn't have the proper disposition to receive a plenary indulgence, then we have no chance at all, because we are even less disposed than a holy person would be - so what is the use of even seeking one.


    God wants us all to be Holy, I did not say that a Saint or holy person cannot have the proper disposition only that been such does not automatically qualify one as having the correct disposition at that paticular time when the possibility of a plenary indulgence can be obtained.

    Plenary indulgences are rare, this shouldn't surprise us when we realise what the effect of them are, rather we should marvel at God's mercy for making them available to us at all.  Even if we fail to gain a Plenary Indulgence the effort is still rewarded with a partial indulgence which is extremely valuable in it's own right.
    adstiterunt reges terrae et principes convenerunt in unum adversus Dominum et adversus Christum eius diapsalma disrumpamus vincula eorum et proiciamus a nobis iugum ipsorum


    Offline CampeadorShin

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    Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
    « Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 01:46:58 PM »
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  • Remember Magdalene, these people were declared Saints by the Church until after they died.
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    Offline Miss_Fluffy

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    Plenary Indulgences (a tough ?)
    « Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 09:26:25 AM »
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  • I think St. Dysmas is a good example of someone who received a plenary indulgence.  He was being crucified and declared that he deserved it.  He must have given up all attachment to sin, and his only concern was that Jesus was innocent, and he had no concern about his own fate.

    So in St. Dysmas, we have an example of a saint who lived a sinful life up until his last moments, where he was redeemed and went straight to heaven.

    When I'm attempting to gain plenary indulgences, I always offer them to my deceased loved ones.  Otherwise, I would feel they were worthless, as I know I'd ruin it within a matter of hours.