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Author Topic: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative  (Read 3085 times)

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Offline tdrev123

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Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« on: November 06, 2019, 08:34:13 PM »
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    • https://codoh.com/library/docuмent/2452/?lang=en

    This old article was written by Mary Ball Martinez.  I knew before about how Pius XII was trying to help the Christ killers and he favored the allies, but the details are disturbing.  Martinez shows how Roncalli was not on board with Pius XII dissent and betrayal of Catholics. 
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 10:49:01 PM »
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    • I think that Pope Pius XII followed the spirit of his predecessor, Pope Pius X. He was so impressive that the chief rabbi of Rome converted to the Catholic Faith. 
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 10:58:59 PM »
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    • edit 
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 12:48:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on November 06, 2019, 10:49:01 PM
    I think that Pope Pius XII followed the spirit of his predecessor, Pope Pius X. He was so impressive that the chief rabbi of Rome converted to the Catholic Faith.
    I think that you do not think at all.

    see https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696

    "We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jєωs from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 12:49:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: tdrev123 on November 06, 2019, 08:34:13 PM
    https://codoh.com/library/docuмent/2452/?lang=en

    This old article was written by Mary Ball Martinez.  I knew before about how Pius XII was trying to help the Christ killers and he favored the allies, but the details are disturbing.  Martinez shows how Roncalli was not on board with Pius XII dissent and betrayal of Catholics.
    Thanks for the education. I have read many times Mary Ball Maritnez's book. Facts are facts. 
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 01:34:57 PM »
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    • Something that has always troubled me is this fake certificate of baptism thing that Pius XII did to save the Jєωs.
    Isn't it against the 8th commandment?
    He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.
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    Offline tdrev123

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on November 07, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
    Something that has always troubled me is this fake certificate of baptism thing that Pius XII did to save the Jєωs.
    Isn't it against the 8th commandment?
    He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.
    It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit!  It is making a mockery of true baptism.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 03:29:29 PM »
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    • Roncalli was an interesting character.  He didn't care for Bugnini and shut him down, kicked him out of the Vatican ... after Pius XII had enabled him to experiment with the Mass.  I think that Roncalli liked the Traditional Mass for its aesthetics.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 03:30:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: tdrev123 on November 07, 2019, 03:25:10 PM
    It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit!  It is making a mockery of true baptism.

    Yeah, I've always had a problem with that practice.  Baptismal certificates are a very serious thing, it's like your ID Card as a Catholic and a member of Christ's body ... it's not something to mess with on behalf of the Jєωs.  But Pius XII always liked to pretend that he was an enlightened man.

    I wonder how many of these Jєωs later used these to infiltrate the Church and get into seminaries and get ordained?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 03:35:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on November 07, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
    He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.

    THIS^^^.  He was undoubtedly one of the worst legitimate popes in history.  He was the watershed that led directly to Vatican II.

    1) opened the door to evolution
    2) opened the door to NFP as Catholic birth control
    3) started the first ecuмenical meetings
    4) enabled Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentations
    5) did not defend Father Feeney against Cardinal Cushing's heresy, and so failed to defend EENS dogma, which led to Vatican II.  He had the opportunity to stand up for and reaffirm EENS in a way that would have precluded Vatican II
    6) appointed, during his long reign, the vast majority of bishops who would later bring us Vatican II
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 03:50:59 PM »
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    It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit!  It is making a mockery of true baptism.
    In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil.  I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.   
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 04:17:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on November 07, 2019, 03:50:59 PM
    In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil.  I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.  

    It was not bending the truth or mental reservation is was telling outright lies and committing fraud. It was doing evil with a possibly good intention, in my mind it seems like it was obviously a sin (though I think calling it one of the worst sins one could commit was an overstatement). Though one could argue that it was mortal (a million lies and acts of fraud).
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 04:19:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on November 07, 2019, 03:50:59 PM
    In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil.  I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.  
    Bend the truth? They were fake baptisms, that is a total lie. If fake baptisms are just bending the truth, then there are no lies. 
    Fr. Carl Pulvermacher used to say " You can not lie, even to save the world". 
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 04:35:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 07, 2019, 12:49:25 PM
    Thanks for the education. I have read many times Mary Ball Maritnez's book. Facts are facts.
    I hope no one is dumb enough to believe Mrs Martinez... While the Pope may have helped some Jєωs to migrate I highly doubt that he would have forged Birth certs. I bet the story is a hoax.. :cheers:
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 04:44:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 07, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
    THIS^^^.  He was undoubtedly one of the worst legitimate popes in history.  He was the watershed that led directly to Vatican II.

    1) opened the door to evolution
    2) opened the door to NFP as Catholic birth control
    3) started the first ecuмenical meetings
    4) enabled Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentations
    5) did not defend Father Feeney against Cardinal Cushing's heresy, and so failed to defend EENS dogma, which led to Vatican II.  He had the opportunity to stand up for and reaffirm EENS in a way that would have precluded Vatican II
    6) appointed, during his long reign, the vast majority of bishops who would later bring us Vatican II
    Pius XII defended Fr Feeney in the Encyclical Humani Generis-- the rest of the above mostly fantasy as well. Bugnini was a very deceptive man who did not reveal his true nature until after the Popes passing. The only thing i have found undesirable about Pius XII is that he had a little to much faith in Democracy. :chef:
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